Was Carl Sagan in on it?

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Re: Was Carl Sagan in on it?

Postby undead » Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:48 pm

Nordic wrote:hugh singlehandedly ensures that this site will never be anything more than an internet backwater for "conspiracy theorists" if you know what i mean.

either he's insane, or that's his job. you decide.


Careful, or the fish will bite you. I don't know about insane, though. It reminds me of a sample from Hallucinogen:
There is an area of the mind that could be called unsane, beyond sanity, and yet not insane. Think of a circle with a fine split in it. At one end there's insanity. You go around the circle to sanity, and on the other end of the circle, close to insanity, but not insanity, is unsanity.

Hugh's connection every dot imaginable is a common symptom of LSD use, when a person sees connections between everything, constantly, attributing intention where there is none. In a way this is true, because everything is connected in some way, but it is usually the collective unconscious when it is obviously impossible for humans (even the supposedly all-powerful CIA) to orchestrate these connections.
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Re: Was Carl Sagan in on it?

Postby Mikey » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:51 am

I went to University quite late (in my mid thirties) and before that i worked as a car mechanic at a garage specialising in restoring and servicing old flat fours (Porsches, air cooled engines and some Ferrari stuff). So we had this gorgeous Porsche 356 that kept spewing out oil through the valve stems after every top to bottom engine rebuild it had (it had three in all) and always after about 500 miles or so. I was flummoxed, the head mech was banging his head against the wall and the owner of the garage said don't worry we'll get Vic. Now Vic was a strange fellow much inclined to let his personal washing go awol and carried a sports everywhere full of old cutlery and copper pipe (it was his scrap metal collection). Often he would saunter into the garage and a few tools would go missing and we would chase him down the road to get them back.

Vic arrived one morning and was shown the Porsche which he asked to be started up, he then took a wooden spoon out of his bag and leaned right into the engine bay and seemed to bite down on the spoon end and placed the end of the handle on the engine block and started to wave his hands back and forth while humming these strange sounds. I was trying hard not to laugh and looked round at my fello workers who were quite serious and respectful. I shut my mouth and after ten or so minutes (a long time to have your head in a Porsche engine bay) he stood up and told our head mech that whoever rebuilt the engine had left grinding paste on the valve stems which were eating away at the block letting oil into the cylinders....job done.

Sometimes we point and laugh at people who make our reality seem a little skewed and strange. I think Hugh is one of those people. I haven't got a clue if this has any relevance but there you go had to share.
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Postby wintler2 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:04 am

Thanks Mikey, i think your story is relevant. It sounded like your Vic was no threat to anyone else, just coming from a less-common way of being in and seeing the world. Which is how i see HMW, despite my own disappointments re evidence for his theories, how does it work exactly, etc. I'd rather spend five minutes puzzling over HMWs latest theory than 2 seconds skipping over Icke or Jones's latest pus puddle.
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Re: Was Carl Sagan in on it?

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:36 am

Now imagine that, every single time you guys made the call to Vic, his answer was always the same. Imagine you were having a conversation about whether or not to replace a muffler and Vic came in and told you about the grinding paste on the valve stems, again. Imagine if you were hanging out in the front office, talking about Carl Sagan, and Vic walked by talking about Sagan's valve stems. That's a little closer to our situation here.

Now Vic becomes the topic of conversation instead of Carl Sagan. Another small victory for Vic.
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Re: Was Carl Sagan in on it?

Postby Bruce Dazzling » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:44 am

Wombaticus Rex wrote:Now imagine that, every single time you guys made the call to Vic, his answer was always the same. Imagine you were having a conversation about whether or not to replace a muffler and Vic came in and told you about the grinding paste on the valve stems, again. Imagine if you were hanging out in the front office, talking about Carl Sagan, and Vic walked by talking about Sagan's valve stems. That's a little closer to our situation here.

Now Vic becomes the topic of conversation instead of Carl Sagan. Another small victory for Vic.


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Re: Was Carl Sagan in on it?

Postby munkiex » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:12 pm

Wombaticus Rex wrote:Now imagine that, every single time you guys made the call to Vic, his answer was always the same. Imagine you were having a conversation about whether or not to replace a muffler and Vic came in and told you about the grinding paste on the valve stems, again. Imagine if you were hanging out in the front office, talking about Carl Sagan, and Vic walked by talking about Sagan's valve stems. That's a little closer to our situation here.

Now Vic becomes the topic of conversation instead of Carl Sagan. Another small victory for Vic.


Spot on.

I'm just a long-time lurker and I know the point has been made before, but HMW has really done for KWH what he claims KWH does for other things. Basically any serious discussion about that topic is impossible on this board.

The sad thing is I believe KWH actually does happen. But less is more when it comes to providing examples. Not every little possibility strung together with hope and unicorn tears needs to be presented.
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Re: Was Carl Sagan in on it?

Postby Mikey » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:41 pm

Wombaticus Rex wrote:Now imagine that, every single time you guys made the call to Vic, his answer was always the same. Imagine you were having a conversation about whether or not to replace a muffler and Vic came in and told you about the grinding paste on the valve stems, again. Imagine if you were hanging out in the front office, talking about Carl Sagan, and Vic walked by talking about Sagan's valve stems. That's a little closer to our situation here.

Now Vic becomes the topic of conversation instead of Carl Sagan. Another small victory for Vic.


I don't know if you are aware of how funny that sounds to me but yes, i guess i shouldnt really start defending the dude not really knowing the full story but sometimes i just cant keep my mouth shut.....

Carl Sagan always looked like an android to me, operated by little CIA ninjas in his head kind of like the numbskulls

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Re: Was Carl Sagan in on it?

Postby undead » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:34 am

This is not an accusation, but it is my honest opinion that HMW is a sock puppet, because I can't imagine a human being doing his schtick so consistently and without personality. What reason is there to do it on such an obscure website? Makes no sense. I'm sorry if I broke the rules, just had to express that.

Also, Carl Sagan is the man, still. I wish he were here to comment on all the new crop circles.
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Re: Was Carl Sagan in on it?

Postby Gnomad » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:43 am

Nordic wrote:hugh singlehandedly ensures that this site will never be anything more than an internet backwater for "conspiracy theorists" if you know what i mean.

either he's insane, or that's his job. you decide.


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Re: Was Carl Sagan in on it?

Postby Bruce Dazzling » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:55 am

undead wrote:This is not an accusation, but it is my honest opinion that HMW is a sock puppet, because I can't imagine a human being doing his schtick so consistently and without personality. What reason is there to do it on such an obscure website? Makes no sense. I'm sorry if I broke the rules, just had to express that.

Also, Carl Sagan is the man, still. I wish he were here to comment on all the new crop circles.


From the rules of the board:

The charge or insinuation of "disinfo agent" can almost never be proven, and poisons and often ends meaningful discussion. Therefore suggesting a poster is purposefully spreading disinformation is not permitted.


Please don't express it again, undead.
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Re: Was Carl Sagan in on it?

Postby Luther Blissett » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:06 am

At least I think I'm in agreement about the thesis. The methods and the details are what get to and distract me.
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Re: Was Carl Sagan in on it?

Postby psynapz » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:59 am

redsock wrote:So ... Joe Normal hears Steven Greer's flying saucer claims (is this stuff even in mainstream newspapers or on CNN when Joe is watching?) and (I guess) thinks he is a kook. And "Greer" is supposed to remind him of JFK limo driver William Greer (how he knows about the driver is unclear) and he ties the two together in his mind, and now thinks of Greer the driver (and Greer's beliefs about the assassination, which Joe also knows in detail somehow) the driver as a kook. Which strengths Joe's belief in the Warren Commission's official story and makes him less likely to think there was a conspiracy. Is that it?

Or is Joe supposed to read about Steven Greer and thinks he's nuts and then in the future (next week, 5 years, 15 years?), when he hears the name William Greer, he will think back to what he read/heard for 45 seconds one day in 2011 and associate the two and thus dismiss whatever he is told about William Greer? Is that it?

Just about. Inoculation doesn't require the expectation of exposure, just the statistical possibility of it, scaled up to an entire population, where a certain percentage of potential troublemakers may become exposed to some given lynchpin of some cover-up which, if exposed more widely, could jeopardize other, larger cover-ups, or entire state-sanctioned or state-operated criminal organizations.

The information is already out in the open, but nobody's clamoring to have it covered on CNN, forcing the Times to write about it because it'll sell papers, or calling up their pesky congresscritters about it. Like most memes, it hasn't hit that kind of critical mass.

But it can, and they know it. Enter Hugh's summer reading list. It turns out that, in addition to extreme/complete individualized mind control, the military and intelligence establishment have mature science (and the proven field application thereof) on low-grade, wide-scale, essentially subliminal mindfuckery which amounts to cognitive sleight-of-hand played en masse. Everybody plays word games with people to manipulate their actions (see sales and marketing, marriage, parenting), but the weaponized version of this is even more subtle.

To use an example I've used here before, if I bring up crop circles in conversation with someone who doesn't study them, I am likely to watch my fellow conversant immediately and automatically respond to this idea with something to the effect of, "Oh, I thought that just turned out to be a couple of dudes with ropes and planks."

You see what happened there? One story in one news cycle with video of two dudes making a circle with ropes and planks admitting in an interview to being responsible for all of England's crop circle phenomenon just for a good laugh, and now everybody in the world who doesn't know shit about the subject won't learn shit about the subject, because they've experienced proximity contamination which biased them to a dismissive pre-judgement which would preempt any thought of personal inquiry into the subject, and/or inoculate them against a mind-virus so destructive to the status quo, or the long-term plans of human monsters with money.

Now, I'm not saying there's a crop circle cover-up, but there are plenty of examples of grade-A certified cover-ups I could have used instead, so just suppose there were. Let's say crop circles were the byproduct of an exotic weapons system or trans-whatever gateway TPTB don't want us to know they have, or that they don't want the peaceful, environmental warnings encoded in some of the more esoteric crop formations in recent years to become widely known (to the point of hitting critical mass), then all they have to do is release a Doug & Dave story to head off any casual inquiries at the pass, before that critical mass becomes curious enough to look into it, or prevent them from being swayed by any casual inquiry should they make it, thus deterring all but a tiny fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of people that might be at risk of radicalizing into action over it should they become sufficiently informed.

Now think 9/11. Examples abound. And that's just the news media. But it's a concise example of inoculation theory in practice.

I personally think pro-establishment, pro-capitalism, pro-imperialism, pro-exceptionalism, pro-official-conspiracy, anti-everything-else-at-every-level-of-detail-ism is intentionally woven into the Hollywood film development cycle by a small peppering of thoroughly-compensated agents scattered throughout the studio system who subtly manipulate the plotlines, dialogue, casting, locations, marketing and theatrical release scheduling in a manner similar to the CIA's well-known editorial influence over major newspapers, TV and online news media, or the "invisible hand of the market" coming up with Crowleyan-symbolic closing numbers for various financial markets as discussed elsewhere recently, or to the deeply-symbolic naming, mission patch design, timing, planning and scheduling and execution of a variety of manned and unmanned NASA missions since its inception by what would appear to be some radical subset of Egypto-sumerian-worshipping Masons and OTO-ish occultists.

Note that I didn't say "all", in any case. Not every movie, not every news story, not every trading day, and not every NASA mission or maneuver has been manipulated to suit an elite minority (be that psyops or occult religious invocation), but it damn sure seems like most of them are.
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Re: Was Carl Sagan in on it?

Postby Bruce Dazzling » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:06 am

Nordic wrote:hugh singlehandedly ensures that this site will never be anything more than an internet backwater for "conspiracy theorists" if you know what i mean.

either he's insane, or that's his job. you decide.


Nordic, I just gave the same warning to undead.

The charge or insinuation of "disinfo agent" can almost never be proven, and poisons and often ends meaningful discussion. Therefore suggesting a poster is purposefully spreading disinformation is not permitted.


Please refrain from this type of accusation. It's counterproductive.

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Re: Was Carl Sagan in on it?

Postby Bruce Dazzling » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:12 am

psynapz wrote:To use an example I've used here before, if I bring up crop circles in conversation with someone who doesn't study them, I am likely to watch my fellow conversant immediately and automatically respond to this idea with something to the effect of, "Oh, I thought that just turned out to be a couple of dudes with ropes and planks."

You see what happened there? One story in one news cycle with video of two dudes making a circle with ropes and planks admitting in an interview to being responsible for all of England's crop circle phenomenon just for a good laugh, and now everybody in the world who doesn't know shit about the subject won't learn shit about the subject, because they've experienced proximity contamination which biased them to a dismissive pre-judgement which would preempt any thought of personal inquiry into the subject, and/or inoculate them against a mind-virus so destructive to the status quo, or the long-term plans of human monsters with money.


As far as I can tell, this is the most practical and likely explanation for KWH that's appeared on this site.

And incidentally, this is the EXACT conversation I recently had with my father regarding crop circles.
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Re: Was Carl Sagan in on it?

Postby StarmanSkye » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:17 am

psynaps: VERY-well said and explained; That's pretty-much my understanding kinda gleaned between-the-lines over several years. I don't recall ever reading anything quite so succinct and well-argued, here or anywhere, but that fits my sense of it. I think its a compelling theory, especially the longer i observe the kind of ruthless, insidious psyops and propaganda being disseminated by the usual suspects and the evident deep-politics agenda of the world-class perps, warmongers, theives, traitors, conmen, conspirators, criminal syndicates, corrupt pols, technocrats and assorted riffraff comprising the PTB.

I sure wouldn't put it past 'em to use every psychological, memetic, mind-buggery et al. device, system, trick, technology, practice they can get their ruthless hands on.

It would likely be an inevitable aspect of their pathology of covert power & control, if such a thing were even REMOTELY possible. I think its that, and more.

Successful worldclass 'magic' and stagecraft sleight-of-hand and other parlor games & tricks and even longcon swindles have a LOT less going for them than KWH and innoculation theory.
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