No evidence of a project named "Project Monarch" (2)

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No evidence of a project named "Project Monarch" (2)

Postby elfismiles » Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:04 pm

Since this was an important thread that got shutdown I am glad to ressurrect it with link to a new HP Albarelli article online:

No evidence of a project named "Project Monarch"
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=28321

This basically expands upon what he included in part of the appendix to his book.


The Strange Story of Sally Hartman
Thursday 10 June 2010
by: H.P. Albarelli Jr., t r u t h o u t | Interview


Image
(Illustration: Jared Rodriguez / t r u t h o u t)

On 26 October, [redacted], an employee of the [redacted], contacted the Office of the Inspector General here at the Agency and related the following information. His wife, whose maiden name is [redacted], was previously married from 1955 until 1960 to [redacted], who was employed by CIA at that time. In the summer of 1956, according to [redacted], she accompanied her husband to the farm of her husband's supervisor for dinner, drinks and wine. She believes her husband worked for Dr. Gottlieb, who was chief of the Technical Services Staff Chemical Division and heavily involved in MKULTRA activities. Her next recollection is receiving electric shock treatment at George Washington University Hospital for some time ...

- Letter from CIA assistant general counsel to John Gavin Esq., Office of Legal Counsel, US Department of Justice, November 2, 1977.

Mind-Control Victims

Over the past 15 years, while working on "A TERRIBLE MISTAKE," and after, about two-dozen people separately contacted me wanting to share their experiences as victims of CIA mind-control projects. Without exception, all of these people seemed quite sincere in their approach and claims. Some had written passionate letters, accounts, or articles about their experiences, a few had even written books about what had happened to them. Several of these books had been published and their authors were happy to send me copies, hoping that I would read them and perhaps write a review. Almost every person seemed more than convinced that they had fallen under the control of the CIA after being targeted at an early age. A surprising number claimed the CIA selected them through their fathers, who were somehow connected to the agency or with officials who worked for the agency. Nearly all of these people had also suffered physical and sexual abuse committed against them by their fathers and their memories of being controlled by the CIA were brought to the surface as a result of their working with psychotherapists or psychologists.

<snip - go to the link below to read the whole thing>

Notes:

Letter dated 2 November 1977, from CIA assistant general counsel to John Gavin Esq., Office of Legal Counsel, US Department of Justice, Washington, DC. Approved for release by the CIA in October 1991, author's files.

Author's interviews with "Sally Hartman," June-July, September 2000, Florida.

The above article is extracted in part from the author's book: "A TERRIBLE MISTAKE: The Murder of Frank Olson and the CIA's Secret Cold War Experiments."

Several sections have been added to this article to make Sally's experience fuller and more understandable to readers. These sections were drawn for an interview with Sally in September 2000.

http://www.truthout.org/the-strange-sto ... rtman60306

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Re: No evidence of a project named "Project Monarch" (2)

Postby Project Willow » Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:58 am

It is daunting just to get more mainstream journalists past their knee jerk reactions. At least a few of them are paying attention now. I am glad that Albarelli brought this case to light, though the first part of the article does not do self-identified survivors any favors. Ethical and tough investigation is exactly what we do need however. I look forward to subsequent revelations as more MC cases are scrutinized.

"How are you today?" I ask Sally.

"Not good," she said. "I feel like my life has been taken away from me. I'm never sure of anything. Most of the time I feel like I'm only half here."

"Half here?"

"Like part of me is always somewhere else. Somewhere where I'm not."


She describes it quite well. I wonder who she is. The case reminds me somewhat of Candy Jones.
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Re: No evidence of a project named "Project Monarch" (2)

Postby Cordelia » Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:57 pm

Thanks for posting this elfismiles. It's also a reminder to me how family members are used to 'recruit' and sacrifice their own, and how ordinary, up-standing and family-oriented these insidious body snatchers can look to the outside world.
The greatest sin is to be unconscious. ~ Carl Jung

We may not choose the parameters of our destiny. But we give it its content. ~ Dag Hammarskjold 'Waymarks'
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Re: No evidence of a project named "Project Monarch" (2)

Postby elfismiles » Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:37 pm

You're very welcome Cordelia.

Yes PW ... but I do feel Albarelli is trying to be gentle and non-ridiculing in his skepticism.

Project Willow wrote:It is daunting just to get more mainstream journalists past their knee jerk reactions. At least a few of them are paying attention now. I am glad that Albarelli brought this case to light, though the first part of the article does not do self-identified survivors any favors. Ethical and tough investigation is exactly what we do need however. I look forward to subsequent revelations as more MC cases are scrutinized.

"How are you today?" I ask Sally.

"Not good," she said. "I feel like my life has been taken away from me. I'm never sure of anything. Most of the time I feel like I'm only half here."

"Half here?"

"Like part of me is always somewhere else. Somewhere where I'm not."


She describes it quite well. I wonder who she is. The case reminds me somewhat of Candy Jones.


Regarding Candy Jones ... in my recent interview with James Moseley (Court-Jester of Ufoology) he dismissed the Candy Jones case as a literary hoax:

PsiOp Radio podcast 116 – 100523 with guest Jim Moseley
http://psiopradio.com/2010/05/23/psiop- ... m-moseley/
http://psiopradio.com/media/2010/POR100523a.mp3


Candy Jones - Hypnosis and Mind Control. Part 2
Pflock also mentions a conversation author Jim Moseley had with Candy where she told ... Pflock, Karl T. 'Radio Control', Fortean Times 165, December 2002. ...
http://www.mysteriouspeople.com/Candy_Jones2.htm - Cached - Similar

Alienbodies: Candy Jones
Pflock also mentions a conversation author Jim Moseley had with Candy where she told ... Pflock, Karl T. 'Radio Control', Fortean Times 165, December 2002. ...
http://alienbodies.wikidot.com/candy-jones - Cached - Similar

Saucer Smear, May 5th, 2002
This must be why he recently wrote an article for "Fortean Times" endorsing a purely fictional book about the late Long John Nebel's wife Candy Jones. .... Speakers include John Timmerman, Karl Pflock, Jim Moseley, and many others. ...
http://www.martiansgohome.com/smear/v49/ss020505.htm - Cached - Similar

Saucer Smear, June 5th, 1998
The "Fortean Times" account of this is entitled "When Beavers Roamed the Moon". ... Candy Jones (widow of Long John Nebel), John Lear, Mothman, James Oberg of NASA, .... Similarly, Karl Pflock and your "Smear" editor are still waiting to find a .... Please note that letters for Smear editor James Moseley should be ...
http://www.martiansgohome.com/smear/v45/ss980605.htm - Cached - Similar

Candy Jones Mind Control Victim Mysterious People Paranormal
Pflock also mentions a conversation author Jim Moseley had with Candy where she told ... Pflock, Karl T. 'Radio Control', Fortean Times 165, December 2002. ...
http://www.spiritual-healing.co.uk/para ... -jones.htm
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Re: No evidence of a project named "Project Monarch" (2)

Postby DeltaDawn » Fri Jun 11, 2010 6:15 pm

As always, Elfi pulls through again, and again I say, tyvm dear!

82_28 wrote a thread "Sane girlfriend reports picking up TV signals in her head" today that once more spiked my interest in this site, like when I first visited, read, revisited....and finally joined........And it was fun again, thinking yeah, a lot of these folks do 'get' it. Then Elfi posted this thread, and I decided this was a good place to make a statement.

The son FINally sat down with me (although can't say I'll get it next time lol) and showed how to link, ttL, now I can 'show' ya'll why I speak/feel as I do. Why do I feel impelled to do this? Well, from the beginning there have been insinuations that because coincidently, I joined at the same time as others, I must therefore probably be an ARG player, troll, or other words I actually had to google to find out what I was being accused of.

Now, with all that said/typed, let me say, as with all information on the web, this linked site should not be considered 'absolute', read it with all your RI, but, here are many contributions to my beliefs and stories/assessments that coincide with what "I KNOW, I know". Might be of interest to some here?

In reading, remember that there are similar programs called by different names.......Project Monarch, MKUltra, Cointelpro, Artichoke, etc.

Btw, Cordelia mentions family members sacrificing their own......agreed, but sad, huh????? and ttL I broke That Damn Cycle!!!!!

Here's the link......

http://www.shoestringradio.net/
For we have not been given the spirit of fear; but of love, peace and a sound mind
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Re: No evidence of a project named "Project Monarch" (2)

Postby Project Willow » Fri Jun 11, 2010 7:03 pm

elfismiles wrote:Regarding Candy Jones ... in my recent interview with James Moseley (Court-Jester of Ufoology) he dismissed the Candy Jones case as a literary hoax:

:?:
:!:
:?:
:!:

SPEECHLESS

Will attempt to speak.
Um... who.... said what? Elfies, I really don't know you, I don't know you at all.

Image
This a ten foot barge pole.




P.S. Delta Dawn, speaking of disinformation, the whole point of the original of this thread was that there was no project with the name "monarch". There certainly were behavioral experimentation projects using unwitting subjects, but no evidence that any of them were NAMED MONARCH. The term should be considered disinfo. I hope that makes sense.



My tolerance for the esoteric cover memes of life is truly, finally at an end. I don't belong here.
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Re: No evidence of a project named "Project Monarch" (2)

Postby filedactivity » Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:13 am

The point of this discussion is on whether or not Project Monarch exists right?
So are we not allowed to disagree with the topic of the thread?
Info or Disinfo, I would like to see it. :)
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Re: No evidence of a project named "Project Monarch" (2)

Postby Project Willow » Sat Jun 12, 2010 1:06 am

filedactivity wrote:The point of this discussion is on whether or not Project Monarch exists right?
So are we not allowed to disagree with the topic of the thread?
Info or Disinfo, I would like to see it. :)


No, the point of the original OP (thread #1, this is thread #2, take the link to thread #1 to read the OP) was about the NAME, not whether the activity generally understood to be described by the name exists, just THE NAME. This is reminding me of Jack Riddler and his ill-read post on Huxley and Orwell in the porn thread.

Not allowed? Jaysus H. fricken fried christ, there's a difference between authoritative and authority. There's also a dom around here somewhere if that might interest you.

If you have some proof of the project name origins outside of those related in the OP then go ahead and upload that declassified pdf. I'm waiting with baited breath.
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Re: No evidence of a project named "Project Monarch" (2)

Postby elfismiles » Sat Jun 12, 2010 1:15 am

Okay, color me confused.

I hope I've not offended you.

Project Willow wrote:
elfismiles wrote:Regarding Candy Jones ... in my recent interview with James Moseley (Court-Jester of Ufoology) he dismissed the Candy Jones case as a literary hoax:

:?:
:!:
:?:
:!:

SPEECHLESS

Will attempt to speak.
Um... who.... said what? Elfies, I really don't know you, I don't know you at all.

Image
This a ten foot barge pole.




P.S. Delta Dawn, speaking of disinformation, the whole point of the original of this thread was that there was no project with the name "monarch". There certainly were behavioral experimentation projects using unwitting subjects, but no evidence that any of them were NAMED MONARCH. The term should be considered disinfo. I hope that makes sense.



My tolerance for the esoteric cover memes of life is truly, finally at an end. I don't belong here.
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Re: No evidence of a project named "Project Monarch" (2)

Postby Project Willow » Sat Jun 12, 2010 3:12 am

^^
No offense. Just simply cannot understand why you take that source or any of those links to be in any way credible.

And just completely out of patience with how every time there's talk of mind control a variety of posters have to interject every other fringe phenomena that ever wafted a trial balloon over open-headed starers.
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Re: No evidence of a project named "Project Monarch" (2)

Postby filedactivity » Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:43 pm

authority are people who CAN boss you around.
authoritive are people who WISH they can boss you around.
right?
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Re: No evidence of a project named "Project Monarch" (2)

Postby Simulist » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:20 pm

I'm sensing a minor disturbance in the force — as if gnats had been flying around the picnic table, and a few of them started to land on my chicken salad sandwich. (Or maybe it's just gas.)
"The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate, independent, and isolated ego."
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Re: No evidence of a project named "Project Monarch" (2)

Postby Project Willow » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:22 pm

filedactivity wrote:authority are people who CAN boss you around.
authoritive are people who WISH they can boss you around.
right?


Well, hi, :wave:
OK, I'll play.

Here's the definition of authoritative from the dictionary that I was referencing when I made the statement.

substantiated or supported by documentary evidence and accepted by most authorities in a field: an authoritative edition of Shakespeare; an authoritative treatment of a subject.

I was refering to Albarelli's claim there as I did in the OP. Do you have something to counter either Albarelli's claim or his reputation as a journalist?
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Re: No evidence of a project named "Project Monarch" (2)

Postby nathan28 » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:31 pm

Project Willow wrote:^^
No offense. Just simply cannot understand why you take that source or any of those links to be in any way credible.

And just completely out of patience with how every time there's talk of mind control a variety of posters have to interject every other fringe phenomena that ever wafted a trial balloon over open-headed starers.



Because there's been fifty years of disinfo and fabulism on it, that's why. And to me it remains unclear how to disentagle RA claims, which do include those "esoteric memes" even in sympathetic accounts like those Noblitt relates (he cites Colin Wilson, talks about "astral travel" as dissociative), from gov't torture-conditioning via MC. Likewise the gov't itself by its own admission engaged in experimentation with the esoteric and there is an overlapping milieu there AFAIK. In fact, Noblitt includes gov't MC under the auspices of RA. Are you suggesting that RA claims are really confused MC experiences?

Also, as it stands, "no evidence of a project named 'MONARCH'" is pretty much a statement of facts. Mark Phillips claims he made it up. Albarelli says he has another source who actually made it up. There's not really much to discuss there, although it is going to invite a lot of "but there's no evidence it DOESN'T Exist!!1!" prove-a-negative comments from people who watched The Prophecy Club on public access.
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Re: No evidence of a project named "Project Monarch" (2)

Postby Project Willow » Sun Jun 13, 2010 5:30 pm

nathan28 wrote:Because there's been fifty years of disinfo and fabulism on it, that's why.


You are right nathan. I hope that over time a lot of it will challenged by people like Albarelli, and that was the very purpose of starting the orignial thread. This is one of those times when my speaking out, because that disinfo and fabulism has a direct personal effect on my daily life, that I am not measured in my responses.

nathan28 wrote:And to me it remains unclear how to disentagle RA claims, which do include those "esoteric memes" even in sympathetic accounts like those Noblitt relates (he cites Colin Wilson, talks about "astral travel" as dissociative), from gov't torture-conditioning via MC. Likewise the gov't itself by its own admission engaged in experimentation with the esoteric and there is an overlapping milieu there AFAIK. In fact, Noblitt includes gov't MC under the auspices of RA. Are you suggesting that RA claims are really confused MC experiences?


As I've said before I don't believe that many of the phenomena people now label as esoteric or mystical or metaphysical really are. I think that exploration into survivor stories and (I realize this might be a button issue) the science behind MC will bear that out. For example, I don't believe that the drugged debaucherers at a ritual are actually drawing in any supernatural power through their violence, but I believe some of them believe they are. I have not read the portion of Noblitt you refer to here, so correct me if I am wrong. I would assume he's grounding that formerly mystical experience to a process that can be defined and measured, a process taking place in the brain, like dissociation.

As for how to disentangle RA from MC, it's not that complicated. Not all RA survivors were used for MC ops. Not all subjects of MC came from RA families. Many MC subjects were taken as adults. I would also venture that not all RA cults intentionally employ dissociation-based MC techniques. The only survey that gives an idea of the percentges involved is the EAS, which has its limitations. The initial role of RA in MC was as a source of subjects, that seems clear enough. However, there was some overlap in personnel, in that at least a few of the scientists-sociopaths working in the labs were active in RA cults as well. That also meant some of the MC procedures developed in the labs leaked out via these routes and then were used in private settings. Basically it's a public private split, state-actor torture vs. non-state actor torture with some limited areas of overlap.

nathan28 wrote:Also, as it stands, "no evidence of a project named 'MONARCH'" is pretty much a statement of facts. Mark Phillips claims he made it up. Albarelli says he has another source who actually made it up. There's not really much to discuss there, although it is going to invite a lot of "but there's no evidence it DOESN'T Exist!!1!" prove-a-negative comments from people who watched The Prophecy Club on public access.


Agreed.
Last edited by Project Willow on Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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