House Whip Alleging Conspiracy (and Shenanigans) in S.C.

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: House Whip Alleging Conspiracy (and Shenanigans) in S.C.

Postby compared2what? » Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:57 pm

Sepka wrote:I think the most believable theory is that someone has a grudge against Vic Rawl, and financed a halfwit with a shady background but a solid, respectable-sounding name to run against him, knowing that Greene would benefit from the top ballot position as well. Once the election was over, Greene could be outed to the media, embarrassing Rawl not only by the fact that a substantial percentage had voted for Greene rather than Rawl, but also calling the legitimacy of Rawl's victory into question by showing that many of the voters had no real idea even who the candidates were.

Sometimes, of course, you get lucky. Instead of embarrassing Rawl, they've pretty well destroyed him.


In the short term, I suppose.

In the long term, though, he's now got the kind of statewide name recognition as "Vic Rawl. Legitimate Candidate" that money actually can buy, but only if you have quite a bit of money. Which he now doesn't have either to raise or spend, having received it as a gift from out of the pure blue.

Anyway. I doubt he's feeling all that destroyed.

lupercal wrote:"Rawl was only seven points behind DeMint in a recent InsideAdvantage/StatehouseReport poll." (from "The Manning-churian Candidate: Unknown Alvin Greene Wins Senate Primary," by Corey Hutchins, Columbia Free Times, June 10th, 2010, http://www.free-times.com/index.php?cat ... 6100935349 )


Honey, did you happen to find any way of getting to the poll itself? Because I can't find a trace of it anywhere. There was an S.C. Index report summarizing a poll that they did, per which Rawl was only seven points behind DeMint.

But the S.C. Index is a bimonthly newsletter that's the joint endeavor of three Democratic consulting, research and marketing firms. And all they offer up is that per a poll they did in May of 438 likely voters, 50% were for DeMint vs. 43% for Rawl, with a +/- margin of error of 4.6%.

IOW -- they don't say what questions they asked in what order. And there's quite a bit of action going on in SC, especially in the Gubernatorial race. So that would matter. In addition to which, they were probably working for some Dem entity when they did the survey, and possibly working for the Rawl campaign itself. I'm too lazy to check. But my point:

That's not an InsiderAdvantage poll, Nor can I find an InsiderAdvantage poll on the SC senatorial primary that says anything at all. It doesn't look like they did one. Or else I can't find it. One or the other.

Finally, the random prank theory is hard to swallow once you realize dirty tricks are SOP in SC, and interfering with federal elections is a serious crime, even if inadequately prosecuted.

p.s. oops, didn't see C2W's latest, can't wait! :P


Please allow me to clarify:

I don't think it was a random prank either.

I just don't think it was conventionally electoral, insofar as DeMint doesn't appear to have needed the assist.

Therefore, I vaguely think/guess/suspect that perhaps it was the work of professional political operatives (who were not necessarily doing that work at the behest of Republican party leadership) the point of which was simply to do something that was really racist (from their POV) with impunity, in order to show that they could and for kicks.

Because it has a kind of nasty personal feel to me. But as I already more or less said, I wouldn't put more than a purely nominal sum on that scenario to win, place or show. It's just a feeling. That's all.
User avatar
compared2what?
 
Posts: 8383
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:31 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: House Whip Alleging Conspiracy (and Shenanigans) in S.C.

Postby Sepka » Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:35 pm

compared2what? wrote:In the long term, though, he's now got the kind of statewide name recognition as "Vic Rawl. Legitimate Candidate" that money actually can buy, but only if you have quite a bit of money. Which he now doesn't have either to raise or spend, having received it as a gift from out of the pure blue.

Anyway. I doubt he's feeling all that destroyed.


I'd be quite surprised if the Democratic party ever considered running him as their chosen candidate in a future election. This year they might, but only to save face if Greene can be somehow disqualified.
- Sepka the Space Weasel

One Furry Mofo!
User avatar
Sepka
 
Posts: 1983
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:56 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: House Whip Alleging Conspiracy (and Shenanigans) in S.C.

Postby lupercal » Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:10 pm

Sepka wrote:I'd be quite surprised if the Democratic party ever considered running him as their chosen candidate in a future election. This year they might, but only to save face if Greene can be somehow disqualified.

If Rawl can get Greene disqualified, I suspect it would be a major victory of the kind that could make him a winner, as I also think that however amateurish the whole stunt might look, it was pulled off by pros with lots of experience in crossing t's and dotting i's, meaning Greene is going to be hard to dislodge by any means other than voluntary withdrawal.

Incidentally that's what Clyburn and the SC Dems are asking for, it seems, not an investigation, so it appears C2W was right on that point after all.

As to the poll, I couldn't find it either. As to Jack's feeling that it was an amateur operation, there are really two operations here: one was getting Greene on the ticket, and that part appears to have been clean as a whistle, though Greene hasn't made some required filings, which no doubt will be his problem. The other was flipping the votes, and I don't buy the predictable media explanations, so that part was definitely the work of insiders.

As to whether the buck stops with DeMint and/or the RNC, I'm sure it does, and if Rawl manages to keep this thing going (it kind of looks like SC Dems would prefer to let it go), it will be interesting to see who falls on their sword.
User avatar
lupercal
 
Posts: 1439
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:06 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: House Whip Alleging Conspiracy (and Shenanigans) in S.C.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:09 am

"Cui bono?"
"No need for spooks..."

A black [accused] sex criminal named Greene?!
Any idea how often a racist fascist Republican hears the ecology-themed word, "GREEN?"

A helluva lot more than "Willie Horton." That's how psyops works, keyword mnemonics.
Propaganda-of-the-deed is designed using neurolinguistics. For decades.

Image
CIA runs mainstream media since WWII:
news rooms, movies/TV, publishing
...
Disney is CIA for kidz!
User avatar
Hugh Manatee Wins
 
Posts: 9869
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:51 pm
Location: in context
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: House Whip Alleging Conspiracy (and Shenanigans) in S.C.

Postby compared2what? » Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:57 am

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:"Cui bono?"
"No need for spooks..."

A black [accused] sex criminal named Greene?!
Any idea how often a racist fascist Republican hears the ecology-themed word, "GREEN?"

A helluva lot more than "Willie Horton."


No doubt, "Willie Horton" being a proper name with only one large-scale set of connotations attached to it.

And "green" being a very common word with more than one common meaning.

For example: inexperienced (adj.); the smooth grassy part of a golf course where (I think) putting is called for (noun); money (noun, colloq.); common space in the middle of a village (noun, Br.); ecologically oriented (adj.), et cetera).

As well as a word with more than one common value-laden or emotionally inflected connotation (green with envy, looking a little green around the edges, God's green acre, et cetera).

As well as a common proper name with more than one form (Green, Greene).

As well as more than one very well known usage as part of the name of a commonly known mythic or fictional character (The Jolly Green Giant; Mr. Greenjeans; The Green Lantern; Anne of Green Gables, The Green Goblin, the Green Knight, la fée verte, et cetera).

As well as the first word of a unique place-name in Wisconsin that has a football team the name of which is common knowledge. (It's common knowledge).

To say nothing of Green Day, "The Green, Green Grass of Home," or "And did those feet in ancient time Walk upon England's mountains green." Among others.

There is no neurolinguistic principle or method by which a psy-op could ensure that some (or any) people would associate Greene's name with one (or any) meaning of the word "green" without doing a whole hell of a lot more up-close-and-personal conditioning than simply exposing them to it in a context in which it's the proper name of a political candidate.

As is strongly suggested -- if not affirmatively demonstrated -- by the congressional careers of Rep. Al Green (D-TX) and Rep. Gene Green (D-TX), both of whom are currently in office, and those of Reps. Enid, Mark and S. William Green (R-UT, R-WI, and R-NY, respectively), all of whom held office well into the eco-sense-of-the-word-green era. Before departing from it in, respectively, 1997, 2007, and 1993.

That's how psyops works, keyword mnemonics.


So, no. No, it isn't. As you perfectly well know.

Or should, anyway, if you've actually read any of the many dumptrucks full of Google results that you unloaded on nathan28 when he asked for citations down in the subforums.

Propaganda-of-the-deed is designed using neurolinguistics. For decades.


Anything's possible, including that, I'm sure.

But if it's actually the case, you have yet to provide a single KWH-based example of it. Because KWH isn't a neurolinquistically sound concept.


Image


Uh-huh.

ImageImageImage

ImageImageImage

ImageImageImage


To post just a small number of the other (ostensibly) relevant movie posters.

You see my point, right?
__________________

Because if you can't, fwiw, the above isn't even the full list of associations, meanings, names, and titles that I thought of without much effort off the top of my head while typing.



And it's still not.
User avatar
compared2what?
 
Posts: 8383
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:31 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: House Whip Alleging Conspiracy (and Shenanigans) in S.C.

Postby compared2what? » Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:45 am

Sepka wrote:
compared2what? wrote:In the long term, though, he's now got the kind of statewide name recognition as "Vic Rawl. Legitimate Candidate" that money actually can buy, but only if you have quite a bit of money. Which he now doesn't have either to raise or spend, having received it as a gift from out of the pure blue.

Anyway. I doubt he's feeling all that destroyed.


I'd be quite surprised if the Democratic party ever considered running him as their chosen candidate in a future election. This year they might, but only to save face if Greene can be somehow disqualified.


In general, I don't make enough of a habit of calculating the odds that future events for which there are few reliable indicators in contexts with which I'm only basically acquainted will or won't occur to be in any position to say whether or not I'd be surprised when they did (or didn't) come to pass.

Beyond that, I can only aver again that Vic Rawl has gotten a bigger helping of generically politically advantageous free national publicity as a result of Greene's victory than he or anyone else could have reasonably expected him to be served had he won the primary and gone on to dull and undistinguished defeat.

Because he has. And that's not the kind of thing that it's remotely possible for someone not to notice when that person is a politician who's campaigned for elected office. Which Rawl is. Therefore I doubt he's feeling too destroyed right now. Objectively speaking, he has an advantage now and going forward that he didn't have and couldn't have reasonably expected to gain as a result of his recent candidacy a mere several weeks ago.

To what practical effect, if any, however, I neither have the first clue nor pretend that I do. Because frankly, I have absolutely no idea what will become of Vic Rawl. So whatever that does or doesn't turn out to be will totally be news to me if and/or when it happens.
User avatar
compared2what?
 
Posts: 8383
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:31 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

alvin stands for anarchy

Postby IanEye » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:37 am

User avatar
IanEye
 
Posts: 4863
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:33 pm
Blog: View Blog (29)

Re: alvin stands for anarchy

Postby compared2what? » Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:03 pm



You're a witty one, you tease, you flirt.

And you've got an exceptional memory for -- among other things -- minor but telling details, aesthetic nuances, and the personal orientation and/or preferences of other people wrt popular music and politics, too. Back to topic, though, now, maybe? I mean, as the forum at large prefers, if it has a preference. I'm adaptable.

I'm just seeking to return the spotlight to that particular possibility, lest we lose sight of it altogether, really.
User avatar
compared2what?
 
Posts: 8383
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:31 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

.

Postby IanEye » Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:17 pm

i really do think this whole thing is about the optics of the debate between DeMint and Greene.

and for me personally, it is hard to hear the name Alvin Greene and not think of Al Green.

So, I chose the album 'Chipmunk Punk' because they do a version of 'Call Me' on that one. But not the one by Mr. Green actually, it's the one by Blondie. Which would seem to imply that Alvin Greene is some form of 'for hire' gigolo.

Sorry about that.

I'll get back up on the train now...
User avatar
IanEye
 
Posts: 4863
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:33 pm
Blog: View Blog (29)

Re: House Whip Alleging Conspiracy (and Shenanigans) in S.C.

Postby lupercal » Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:23 pm

Rawl files formal challenge to SC election results today, as per BradBlog:

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7894#more-7894

Rawl's statement (from his campagin website):

STATEMENT OF JUDGE VIC RAWL, June 14, 2010

Good afternoon, and thank you all for coming.

Earlier today, our campaign filed a protest of last Tuesday’s election results with the South Carolina Democratic Party.

We have filed this protest not for my personal or political gain, but on behalf of the people of South Carolina.

There is a cloud over Tuesday’s election. There is a cloud over South Carolina, that affects all of our people, Democrats and Republicans, white and African-American alike.

At this point, the people of our state do not have the basic confidence that their vote will be counted.

The strange circumstances surrounding Tuesday’s vote require a thorough investigation. For better or worse, this protest process is the only platform currently available for that investigation.

And let me be clear: regardless of the outcome of this protest, a full and unblinking investigation of this election and the overall integrity of South Carolina’s election system must go forward. Whether our protest is upheld or not, I intend to bring my full energies to electoral reform well into the future.


:shock:

I want to speak briefly about the bases for our protest.

First is ongoing analysis of the election returns themselves, which indicate irregularities.

Second are the many voters and poll workers who continue to contact us with their stories of extremely unusual incidents while trying to vote and administer this election.

These range from voters who repeatedly pressed the screen for me only to have the other candidate’s name appear, to poll workers who had to change program cards multiple times, to at least one voter in the Republican primary who had the Democratic U.S. Senate race appear on her ballot.

For those who experienced problems voting, I urge you to go to our website, http://www.vicrawl.com and use the form there to report them. You can also call our Election Integrity Hotline at 843-278-0510.

Third is the well-documented unreliability and unverifiability of the voting machines used in South Carolina.

It is worth noting that these machines were purchased surplus from Louisiana after that state outlawed them.

The full details of our protest will be presented on Thursday.


For the people of South Carolina, getting to the bottom of Tuesday’s results will build confidence, either way.

I also hope that a full and frank discussion of our voting system will result in substantial reform.

At the risk of repetition, this protest is not about me, or my personal political fortunes. Indeed, if the protest is upheld and a new election ordered, I have not decided whether to run in it.

But, either way, I am not done with the issue of fixing our elections.

Lastly, let me make something clear. Like all of you, I am aware of the controversies surrounding Mr. Greene. This protest is not about him either.

I would like to speak directly to Mr. Greene and say: “Sir, this is not about you, and it’s not about me. I wish you and your family nothing but the best in the weeks and months ahead.”

I will be happy to take questions.

http://www.vicrawl.com/vicrawl/post/102 ... e-vic-rawl


Am I the only one who didn't realize that Rawl is white? He is (there's a pic on his website but at the moment I can't get the link). I'd say that changes the equation considerably, in ways that won't help DeMint and Co.
User avatar
lupercal
 
Posts: 1439
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:06 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: House Whip Alleging Conspiracy (and Shenanigans) in S.C.

Postby JackRiddler » Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:37 pm

You put the "shocked" smiley at the wrong point:

It is worth noting that these machines were purchased surplus from Louisiana after that state outlawed them.


:shock:
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 15983
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: House Whip Alleging Conspiracy (and Shenanigans) in S.C.

Postby lupercal » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:03 pm

JackRiddler wrote:You put the "shocked" smiley at the wrong point:

It is worth noting that these machines were purchased surplus from Louisiana after that state outlawed them.


:shock:

Yes that's a shock too, but what's really a pleasant surprise is to hear a Diebolded Dem go on the record and spell it out. Kerry didn't do it in '04, not that I hold it against him, but in the six years since I haven't heard any other Dem do it either. So here's hoping Rawl has a stronger stomach than McCain because if he does, and he stays away from interns and small planes, I predict he'll take that Senate seat in November.
User avatar
lupercal
 
Posts: 1439
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:06 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)


Re: House Whip Alleging Conspiracy (and Shenanigans) in S.C.

Postby lupercal » Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:27 am

^ yes.. fortunately she's still doing great work out of office and got my vote in '08

Keith Olbermann Interviews Vic Rawl - 06/14/10
User avatar
lupercal
 
Posts: 1439
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:06 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: House Whip Alleging Conspiracy (and Shenanigans) in S.C.

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:26 am

Absolutely disgusting coverage from Stewart tonight.

This much was said: Unemployed man Alvin Greene, who lives with his father, put up $10,000 to register as a candidate and then ran no campaign. No meetings, no staff, no posters, no outreach, no rallies, no fundraising, no budget, nothing. He remained a complete unknown and somehow landed 60+ percent of 100,000-plus votes in the Democratic primary. Then we see some representative footage establishing Greene's seeming cluelessness and lack of speaking ability. Then we get some SC Democrats wondering what the hell trick was pulled (especially notable since no visible trick such as a campaign to get Republican crossover voters for Greene was pulled).

At this point, Stewart turns on a dime and savages the Democrats for having fucked up their own show and being so pathetic and trying to blame Republicans, and laughs off the idea that Republicans or anyone else had anything to do with it. He blames the alphabet, for putting Greene's name first on the ballot. Audience says ha ha ha. End of story.

Nothing about DRE voting machines, the incredible numbers discrepancies between machine votes and absentee ballots, the precincts with more votes than voters, or any of the rest of it. Certainly nothing about Greene's time in the military, the sacred cow of Stewart's show.

There's no excuse based on ideology or naivete. This was an obvious hit piece. What a pimp!
Last edited by JackRiddler on Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 15983
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 44 guests