Secret Archive Grim View of Afghan War - Wikileaks ONLINE

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Re: Secret Archive Grim View of Afghan War - Wikileaks ONLINE

Postby ninakat » Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:54 pm



Thanks Sweejak. Leave it to Chris Floyd to do the real revealing. Some choice snippets, but read it all and weep:

Leaky Vessels: Wikileaks "Revelations" Will Comfort Warmongers, Confirm Conventional Wisdom
Written by Chris Floyd
Monday, 26 July 2010 14:08

(...)

Where then are the "revelations"? Anyone who has regularly read, well, the New York Times, the Guardian and Der Spiegel could not remotely be surprised by any of the facts (as opposed to the oceans of spin and supposition) buried in this mountain of leakage. These are not the Pentagon Papers or the Downing Street Memos; they do almost nothing to alter the public image of the war, and tell almost nothing that we don't already know.

In fact, the overall effect of the multi-part coverage of the documents is to paint a portrait of plucky, put-upon Americans trying their darnedest to get the job done despite the dastardly dealings and gooberish bumblings of the ungrateful little brown wretches we are trying to save from themselves. The NYT is quite explicit in this spin:

    [T]he documents sketch a war hamstrung by an Afghan government, police force and army of questionable loyalty and competence, and by a Pakistani military that appears at best uncooperative and at worst to work from the shadows as an unspoken ally of the very insurgent forces the American-led coalition is trying to defeat.

So you see, if our noble enterprise is failing, it’s because the Afghans are idiots, the Pakistanis are backstabbers ... and the Iranians are behind it all, training Taliban fighters, making their bombs and bankrolling the political opposition to America's appointed satrap, Hamid Karzai.

Ah, here we get down to it. Here's metal more attractive for our militarists. The treachery of Iran is a constant theme in the leakage -- both in the raw, unsifted, uncorroborated "humint" and in the diplomatic cables of puzzled occupiers who cannot fathom why there should be any opposition to their enlightened rule. It must the fault of those perfidious Persians!

One can only imagine the lipsmacking and handclapping now rampant among the Bomb Iran crowd as they pore over these unsubstantiated rumors and Potomac ass-coverings which are being doled out -- by the "liberal" media, no less! -- as the new, grim truth about Afghanistan.

(...)

So in the end, what really is the "takeaway" from this barrage of high-profile "revelations" dished up by these bold liberal gadflies speaking truth to power? Let's recap:

Occupation forces kill lots of civilians. But everybody already knew that -- and it's been obvious for years that nobody cares. How does this alter the prevailing conventional wisdom about the war?

Pakistan is pursuing its own strategic interests in the region: interests that don't always mesh with those of the United States. Again, this has been a constantly -- obsessively -- reported aspect of the war since its earliest days. How does this alter the prevailing conventional wisdom about the war?

The Afghan government installed by the occupation is corrupt and dysfunctional. Again, this theme has been sounded at every level of the American government -- including by two presidents -- for years. How does this alter the prevailing conventional wisdom of the war?

There is often a dichotomy between official statements about the war's progress and the reality of the war on the ground. Again, has there been a month in the last nine years that prominent stories outlining this fact have not appeared in major mainstream publications? Is this not a well-known phenomenon of every single military conflict in human history? How does this alter the prevailing conventional wisdom about the war?

Iran is evil and is helping bad guys kill Americans and should be stopped. It goes without saying that this too has been a relentless drumbeat of the American power structure for many years. The occupation forces in Iraq began blaming Iran for the rise of the insurgency and the political instability almost the moment after George W. Bush proclaimed "mission accomplished" and all hell broke loose in the conquered land. The Obama administration has "continued" -- and expanded -- the Bush Regime's demonization of Iran, and its extensive military preparations for an attack on that country. The current administration's "diplomatic effort" is led by a woman who pledged to "obliterate" Iran -- that is, to kill tens of millions of innocent people -- if Iran attacked Israel. The American power structure has seized upon every single scrap of Curveball-quality "intelligence" -- every rumor, every lie, every exaggeration, every fabrication -- to convince the American people that Iran is about to nuke downtown Omaha with burqa-clad atom bombs.

So once again, and for the last time, we ask the question: How does this alter the prevailing conventional wisdom about the war?

It doesn't, of course. These media "bombshells" will simply bounce off the hardened shell of American exceptionalism -- which easily countenances the slaughter of civilians and "targeted killings" and "indefinite detention" and any number of other atrocities anyway. In fact, I predict the chief "takeaway" from the story will be this:

American forces are doing their best to help the poor Afghans, but the ungrateful natives are too weak and corrupt to be trusted, while America's good intentions are also being thwarted by evil outsiders.

Getting this message out via "critical" stories in "liberal" publications is much more effective than dishing up another serving of patriotic hokum on Fox News or at a presidential press conference. In fact, it is so much more effective that one almost begins to wonder about the ultimate provenance of the leaks. Did some deep-delving gamester allow these files to get out? Most likely not; but their ultimate effect does provoke the age-old question, cui bono?

(...)
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Re: Secret Archive Grim View of Afghan War - Wikileaks ONLINE

Postby Sweejak » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:24 pm

Thanks for filling in some quotes. I'm too tired to do it.
Something smells, firstly why did Assange release it to the propagandist MSM, why not, say Anti-War or all the other good sources who have been consistent? You know the MSM would have to go to them first for a change instead of flooding the NYT. Ok, there are plausible reasons. Like Floyd I'm not pointing fingers at Wikileaks necessarily, but I think the acknowledged danger of Wikileaks is managed leaks. Is that what we are seeing?
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Re: Secret Archive Grim View of Afghan War - Wikileaks ONLINE

Postby anothershamus » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:25 pm

Image

On Edit: Now they are saying that Wikileaks is part of the CIA........ Huh, What with the Who?????

http://kennysideshow.blogspot.com/2010/07/wikileaks-partners-ny-times-and.html
)'(
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Re: Secret Archive Grim View of Afghan War - Wikileaks ONLINE

Postby Sweejak » Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:49 am

You don't have to be part of the CIA to be used by the CIA. So far I see no one disputing the information. Assange says on Larry King, (gee, I haven't watched King since forever) that while he is concerned about somebody having a 'dog in the hunt' because it can throw an angle on the material that in the end, provided the material is true, that's enough for it have important consequences for the public.

Transparency is great, semi-transparent not so much.

Danny Schecter on RT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iow0uGAL ... tube_gdata

Julian Assange Explains WikiLeaks Disclosure Of Afghan War Info To Larry King pt.1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlBg9ksz ... r_embedded
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Re: Secret Archive Grim View of Afghan War - Wikileaks ONLINE

Postby Sweejak » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:28 am

John Young Alex Jones WikiLeaks Cryptome 07 26 10
http://snardfarker.ning.com/video/john- ... en_twitter
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Re: Secret Archive Grim View of Afghan War - Wikileaks ONLINE

Postby Penguin » Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:01 am

tazmic wrote:
With Julian Assange's clear support of a free and open press, it may boggle the reader that no blogs were on the list of news sources he decided to give the secret war documents to. The New York Times, the Guardian (UK), and Der Spiegel were clear winners, but no community-driven sites such as Global Voices or Ground Report. "Those...are the three best research publications in print," Assange said.

http://www.fastcompany.com/1674331/wikileaks-julian-assange-afghanistan-leak


Indeed. That does boggle the mind.
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Re: Secret Archive Grim View of Afghan War - Wikileaks ONLINE

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:11 am

Interesting interview so far Sweejak.

Its certainly interesting watching the way this is being spun today in the Australian media.

Everyone's spinning this tho.

edit - OK Heard the whole thing now.

Is John Young losing it? (Or is it me?)

I couldn't follow his argument. He seemed to be saying we couldn't trust the documents for a variety of reasons, but at the end he said we could, but not wikileaks.

Despite starting out by saying that they were a good organisation.


This is starting to look like a personal dispute being played out in public to me.
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Re: Secret Archive Grim View of Afghan War - Wikileaks ONLINE

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:15 am

Not really. Its all online right now. If you want to blog about it go for it.
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Re: Secret Archive Grim View of Afghan War - Wikileaks ONLINE

Postby Penguin » Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:29 am

Crossposted from the other Wikileaks thread:

Penguin wrote:http://www.whistleblowersblog.org/2010/02/articles/legislation/international-1/icelands-answer-to-the-financial-crisis-protect-whistleblowers/

There is also this, which I see as a rather interesting development in context:
Iceland’s economy has been ravaged by the international financial crisis. Rage against corruption sparked protests. Iceland's legislature is now trying to resurrect their economy by ensuring that citizens will have free speech rights that will spur economic growth. On February 16 members of the Icelandic Parliament proposed a bill which could make Iceland a “journalist haven.” It would also provide protections for whistleblowers and other sources who expose fraud. Members of Parliament are obviously keen to the role fraud played in the current crisis. National Public Radio reports on the leadership of the Icelandic Modern Media Initiative (IMMI) in calling for a slew of reforms.

IMMI is pushing for strong source and whistleblower protection, communications protections, strict limits on prior restraint and libel, tourism protection and reinvention of that country’s Freedom of Information Act. This legislation respects the work of Wikileaks, the online whistleblowing site which became a key source of information about the causes of Iceland’s financial crisis. Such laws would provide substantive incentives for whistleblowers to come forward, deterring corruption especially in the banking and financial sectors. “It is hard to imagine a better resurrection for a country that has been devastated by financial corruption than to turn to facilitating transparency and justice into a business model,” IMMI states. Hopefully this bill will provide a model for other legislatures, showing them that they can protect their economy from financial corruption by protecting their whistleblowers.


http://www.niemanlab.org/2010/06/what-w ... urnalists/

snippet, several links at original:

The Icelandic parliament has voted unanimously to create what are intended to be the strongest media freedom laws in the world. And Iceland intends these measures to have international impact, by creating a safe haven for publishers worldwide — and their servers.

The proposal, known as the Icelandic Modern Media Initiative, requires changes to Icelandic law to strengthen journalistic source protection, freedom of speech, and government transparency.

“The Prime Minister voted for it, and the Minister of Finance, and everybody present,” says Icelandic Member of Parliament Birgitta Jónsdóttir, who has been the proposal’s chief sponsor. Her point is that Iceland is serious about this. The country is in the mood for openness after a small group of bankers saddled it with crippling debt, and the proposal ties neatly into the country’s strategy to be prime server real-estate.

But although the legislative package sounds very encouraging from a freedom of expression point of view, it’s not clear what the practical benefits will be to organizations outside Iceland. In his analysis of the proposal, Arthur Bright of the Citizen Media Law Project has noted that, in one major test case of cross-border online libel law, “publication” was deemed to occur at the point of download — meaning that serving a controversial page from Iceland won’t keep you from getting sued in other countries. But if nothing else, it would probably prevent your servers from being forcibly shut down.

There might be other benefits too. Wikileaks says that it routes all submissions through Sweden, where investigations into the identity of an anonymous source are illegal. Wikileaks was heavily involved in drafting and promoting the Icelandic package, and whatever your opinion of their current controversies, they’ve proven remarkably immune to legal prosecution in their short history. Conceivably, other journalism organizations could gain some measure of legal protection for anonymous sources if all communications were routed through Iceland.
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Re: Secret Archive Grim View of Afghan War - Wikileaks ONLINE

Postby Penguin » Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:35 am

Joe Hillshoist wrote:Not really. Its all online right now. If you want to blog about it go for it.


Yeah :)
It could be a visibility tactic too, I suppose.
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Re: Secret Archive Grim View of Afghan War - Wikileaks ONLINE

Postby tazmic » Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:51 am

WikiLeaks: The Revelations That Aren't
But after sifting through this small mountain of text, the New York Times and other media outlets still failed to find what would qualify as new "smoking gun" evidence of Pakistani ISI connections with terrorists operating in Afghanistan.
The reality is that they don't need any new information. On numerous occasions the U.S. government has publicly implicated the ISI in terrorist activities, notably in the attack on the Indian embassy in Kabul perpetrated by the Haqqani network of Afghan Taliban with ISI support. On August 1, 2008, two of the New York Times reporters who helped write today's WikiLeaks story had a lead story headlined: "Pakistanis Aided Attack in Kabul, U.S. Officials Say."

http://www.cfr.org/publication/22696/wikileaks.html
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Re: Secret Archive Grim View of Afghan War - Wikileaks ONLINE

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:29 am

Penguin wrote:
Joe Hillshoist wrote:Not really. Its all online right now. If you want to blog about it go for it.


Yeah :)
It could be a visibility tactic too, I suppose.


Well thats right.

Honestly this is a huge pile of documents. People who are against the Afghan war should be able to get organised and mount a campaign based on this information, cos basically we all know the war is an unsustainable joke to support heroin dealing child abusers. There's nothing new in this, cept a few ugly details. There's probably a few warcrimes.

These documents are, according to the Pentagon, authentic.

If thats so then odds are they can be used to discredit the war.



Of course there's reason to be careful too. 92 thousand documents. Thats a lot of trawling if there's nothing.

But there isn't nothing:

viewtopic.php?p=350500#p350500

That is good to know. The Obama Administration has already expressed dismay that WikiLeaks publicized the documents, but a leak informing us that our tax dollars may be being used as seed money for a protection racket associated with a narcotics-trafficking enterprise is a good leak to have. And the checkpoint incident is, again, only one report, from one day.



Er I mean, whats one more protection racket when the US is full of them and Obama bends over backwards for them? And we all know this shit anyway so whats the point?
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Re: Secret Archive Grim View of Afghan War - Wikileaks ONLINE

Postby Sweejak » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:43 pm

Is John Young losing it? (Or is it me?)


I fell asleep somewhere during the interview and I know I should listen before I post but it seemed like he made some powerful observations about Wikileaks security. Now, I wouldn't put it past Young to be a tad jealous, but that doesn't mean his observations are wrong. Has anyone followed Wayne Madson's thoughts on Wikileaks?

If the the info is good then it's now in the hands of the analysts, both the warmongering MSM to whom Assange thought it would be good idea to give the first crack, and the rest of us. They did have the time to put together their user-friendly charts. Nice job actually, I don't know if my favorite news spots could have done that.

The feeling won't leave me that this is a psy-op, with or without Assange's knowledge. Look; what would you do if no one believed any thing you said anymore, if the web was full of people laughing at your official statements, all your columns had rabid commenters that took you apart and ruined your cred as well as your pride. Your newspapers were being thrown away, your great idea of leveraging global warming, a multi decade project, was being shredded? What then, If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

I don't know if this is what's happening, but if it is I hold out the possibility for some unintended consequences along the lines that Penguin described.
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Re: Secret Archive Grim View of Afghan War - Wikileaks ONLINE

Postby Sweejak » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:53 pm

Wayne Madsen: Wikileaks Docs Target Pakistan! - Alex Jones Tv 2/2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m8mx9mX9EE
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Re: Secret Archive Grim View of Afghan War - Wikileaks ONLINE

Postby tazmic » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:19 pm

The Christian Science Monitor wrote:Islamabad, Pakistan -- The former chief of Pakistan’s spy agency has derided as “malicious, fictitious, and preposterous” the leaked United States military documents implicating him in a string of attacks against US and NATO forces in Afghanistan.

Gul has in the past called himself Washington's "darling" for playing a key role in the CIA's covert support of the Afghan mujahideen against the Soviet-backed government in Kabul the 1980s, and he was a principle architect of Pakistan's foreign strategy in Afghanistan. He has held no official position since 1992, though he is still seen as a well-connected military adviser.

“It’s a bloody shame for [the US] if a 74-year-old general sitting in his small house who has nothing to do within the ISI can pull this off,” he says, adding: “If I can pull off the defeat of America in Afghanistan, then history books will record it to my credit, and my future generations will rejoice over it.”

Pakistan, a country awash in conspiracy theories, is already buzzing with rumors that the US orchestrated the WikiLeaks exposé to undermine Pakistan and pave the way for military intervention here. Gul himself warns that any military intervention in Pakistan will send the country into turmoil. “You touch Pakistan on any pretext, it will ignite an inferno which will inflame every part of the region,” he says.

Gul says he is prepared to testify before US Congress to clear his name, adding that he is also prepared to share his own secrets about the US involvement in Pakistan and Afghanistan. “I know your wrongdoings in Afghanistan and deficiencies in your leadership, your involvement in the narcotics trade, and how your security complexes are minting money and cheating their own taxpayers,” he says.

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