Who Parked The Moon?

[Harvey]

Ben, a friend who actually designed a mission for NASA told me it would have been more expensive and problematic to fake convincingly than it would be to just go there...

[BenDhyan]

Haha...that's actually very true Harvey, I hadn't thought about it. And to achieve it without anyone blowing the whistle during the whole 9 years of Apollo program would be a miracle.

[chump]

Ben, a friend who actually designed a mission for NASA told me it would have been more expensive and problematic to fake convincingly than it would be to just go there...

Why?

[BenDhyan]

^ Well the cost of the hardware and staff involved in the Apollo Program is a given, no one disputes that at its peak, NASA employed up to 400,000 people, or that the Saturn V rockets, Moon landers, Command capsules, etc. were manufactured and launched. So if all these resources were used in a manner that had nothing to do with going to the moon, while no one except the insiders knowing this, there would have to be in place some additional costly technological advanced system that could deceive everyone else involved. The complexity of such a system I can't imagine because that technology is not possible to my knowledge, not then and even now, but if it were, it would use much more advanced technology than that used to go to the moon, so this would be an additional cost.

[Belligerent Savant]

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Thanks for those links, Ben. They serve to increase the oddness of the earlier articles (referenced in my last posting) that suggest a scarcity of samples available to confirm the chemical makeup/consistency of moon rocks/lunar soil. One would think those links you provided would have been cited, minimally. We can wave it away as shoddy journalism, I suppose.

[I'm also compelled to add the samples from the moon could have all been collected by rovers rather than man. This includes a recent Chinese rover that found markedly distinct samples than those collected by the Apollo missions, though the explanation there is the Asian rover traversed previously unexplored territory on the 'dark side' of the moon. Different formations, etc.]

As far as the 'costs' for faking or not faking lunar excursions: it's irrelevant. Are we to believe any hypothetical faking would be paid for by 'tax dollars'? Perhaps in part, for the overt aspects of the missions, and also to maintain 'optics', but there are black budgets and black ops galore. Funding would come from sources obscured from view.

Cost is not -- has never been -- a hindrance to [hidden] Agenda.

[chump]

https://youtu.be/vl6jn-DdafM
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[Wombaticus Rex]

Ben, a friend who actually designed a mission for NASA told me it would have been more expensive and problematic to fake convincingly than it would be to just go there...

That doesn't pass the five second smell test and it didn't pass the "give it five minutes" test, either.

So: doing a mission to the moon without the need for targeting, for fuel, and for working life support -- AND WITHOUT THE NEED FOR A REAL MOON OR A REAL SPACECRAFT -- is more expensive and harder to do than landing three men on the surface of another celestial object after launching them from Florida, while landing them on target and keeping the team alive.

Your friend was either being sarcastic or lying directly to your face. This is an absurd assertion.

It concerns me that bullshit like this could convince anyone. Your friend is casually dismissing the entire point behind this line of thinking, and based on what?

Based on "trust me."

It also omits the fact that most of the technology -- and indeed, the sets! -- required for this artifice already existed at the time. It's not like NASA had to work all this out from scratch, our very own domestic fiction factory had been in full swing for half a century already and they were in the loop with BBC advances, too.

[BenDhyan]

Wombaticus, you are missing something important, this was stated by someone technically involved in the Apollo program, not a person who was never technically involved directly. All those 400,000 people involved in the NASA Apollo Program could not be fooled into thinking it was a hoax..When you have for example the CSIRO Parkes telescope pointing at the moon and receiving the video of the astronauts, for it to be a hoax, there had to be a transmitter placed on the moon and relaying a prerecorded tape or some such, and the cost is still the same. The same is true for all the NASA stations involved (in Australia, there were five alone), they all were communicating with the moon and some during the journey to the moon using steerable antennae which employ highly directional beams to receive and lock on to the signal transmitted by the space craft and track them automatically. I worked on such tracking systems, that is where I am coming from, even if there was no men on the moon, the cost of faking it so as to use prerecorded audio and video links, pick up moon rocks, etc., would still be pretty much the same. However for it to be faked to the extent that no spacecraft went to the moon, that technology as I said just does not exist, not then and not now, and if it were, the cost of it would be more than doing it the way it was.

And remember, the Saturn V rocket launches were open to the public, they were literally seen being launched, point being if they were not going to the moon, the cost would be the same, because all the cost is in the rocket, once it is launched there is no other costs except ongoing operations.

[Elvis]

Loving this.

[Belligerent Savant]

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Saturn V Rockets launched into space does not = men landing on the moon, needless to say.


With regards to transmissions 'from the moon':

[...]

Only the NASA Manned Space Flight Network can attest to having tracked these vehicles all the way to the moon and back. This Network comprised of Goldstone Tracking Station in California, the Madrid Deep Space Communications Complex, and various facilities in Australia; most notably Parkes Observatory, Honeysuckle Creek and Tidbinbilla. In the case of Parkes, it was (and still is) owned by the Australian government but was under control of and under contract to NASA during the time of the Apollo missions. It was NASA’s very own Robert Taylor who controlled the release of any data from Parkes during the Apollo 11 mission and his team were responsible for the reception, recording and transfer of audio, video and telemetry at Parkes. And on the subsequent flights technicians and engineers from NASA’s Tidbinbilla complex were heavily involved at Parkes. It’s essentially a fox guarding the hen house scenario.

http://www.moonfaker.com/faqs.html

I've only come across this 'Jarrah White' individual [the source of the above link/quote] today; haven't done my due diligence on him yet, so the usual caveat lector applies. Apparently he's a defender of the charlatan Musk, so while he may have done his part to expose the Apollo landings as [alleged] hoaxes, some claim he's since been 'compromised' to validate the current/future missions as genuine.

More research for another time, perhaps.

I'm including additional content from his FAQ page below, as it addresses a number of the topics already raised in this thread:

[the FAQ link has multiple embedded links/additional source material]

Q: So was the MSFN [Manned Space Flight Network] part of the conspiracy?

A: Maybe. Maybe not. For awhile Jarrah was convinced that they were, but has since reconsidered and remains undecided. Because of the way telecommunications were handled, it’s hard to say for sure.

The MSFN simply relayed the signals it received over the landlines to the technicians at the Mission Control Center in Houston. These technicians didn’t need to know or care where the data came from. So since it was purely NASA’s MSFN who were allegedly tracking Apollo all the way to the moon and back, regardless of whether the crews were actually in LEO or on the ground; all they would need do is relay pre-recorded tapes or LEO signals or both over the landlines, claim it was from the moon, and the MCC controllers would’ve called it a day.

This was little different to the pre-flight simulations. The MCC controllers were trained for actual space missions by being fed simulated data over the landlines. Flight Director Eugene Kranz, in the documentary Failure Is Not an Option, was quoted to saying that the simulations were so realistic that no controller could distinguish the training from the real mission. (see time codes 4:40-4:54)

On the other hand, the MSFN could easily have been in the dark too. Honeysuckle Creek for example had developed their own simulation system for specifically training the operators. The computers were even capable of simulating the Doppler shift! These simulators were also designed to be indistinguishable from the real thing. But while it could be argued that a similar simulation could have been used, it ultimately was not required to fool the MSFN.

As explained below, the Soviet Union had successfully faked telecommunications by transmitting the voices of cosmonauts to the unmanned Zond 5, which in turn relayed them back to earth. At the time the Americans and Jodrell Bank thought the spacecraft was manned. There was nothing stopping the Americans from also flying an unmanned spacecraft to the moon and using it to relay data. So if the MSFN operators were not involved in the conspiracy, they were probably receiving telecommunications from an unmanned craft.

In summary: because the MSFN facilities were either NASA owned or NASA contracted, it is not an outside possibility that they were involved in the hoax; but on the other hand, they could just as easily have been left in the dark and NASA could have pulled a Zond 5 on them.

Jarrah has personally asked various radio operators how they know Apollo telecommunications were not just another Zond 5 stunt, and so far none of them have given him a direct answer. And considering the Zond 5 hoax has been officially revealed, Jarrah is amazed that anyone would cite telecommunications as evidence for Apollo, let alone consider it their best evidence!

Q: How were the videos and still pictures faked?

A: They were filmed either in a studio or on location in the Nevada desert. When it came down to filming the moonwalk scenes, lunar gravity was simulated by suspending the astronauts on wires to reduce their weight. And to complete the look, the videos of the astronauts on wires were played back in slow motion.

Ironically, the Mythbusters recently tried to debunk this by filming Adam Savage running around in a replica spacesuit. They filmed him both with and without wire suspension. But the only slow motion footage shown was of when he was not suspended by a wire. If one takes his wire jump footage, slows it down to 67% and then plays it alongside the original Apollo 16 footage, the two are a near-perfect synchronization.

White told this to Savage during the Q&A session at Tam8 in Las Vegas 2010, to which Savage replied that their TV show [Mythbusters] was “entertainment, not science”, that he shouldn’t be cited as the definitive defacto place for scientific analysis of the moon landings, and that “We might be wrong!”

Q: How could so many people have kept quiet about the hoax?

A: Secrets of such magnitude have taken place. The Soviet N-1 program alone involved hundreds of thousands of scientists and engineers; yet the designing, developing, and launch of the N-1 rocket remained a well-kept secret for forty years until the USSR collapsed in 1991.

Bottom line, if Russia could keep a secret that involved thousands of people for so long, so could NASA. And anyway, not everyone at NASA would have needed to be in on the conspiracy. For example, as stated above, the technicians at Houston Mission Control Center would be unable to distinguish the difference between simulations and the real missions. Hence there is no need for them to ‘keep quiet’ about anything.

Likewise for the remainder of NASA staff and contractors located on the ground. Once the rockets were out of sight they had no way of knowing whether the CSM continued to the Moon, came down shortly afterwards, or just stayed in earth orbit. Everyone just assumed it happened the way it was reported and they had no reason to suspect otherwise. Ultimately there were only three eyewitnesses for each mission, not thousands.

Q: Why did the Russians remain silent?

A: Jarrah can see three reasons.

Firstly, if you really want to know what Russia thought of manned lunar exploration, just ask Jodrell Bank’s Sir Bernard Lovell. In May of 1963, the President of the Soviet Academy of Sciences Mstislav Keldysh instructed him to inform NASA’s deputy administrator Hugh Dryden that Russian had to postpone manned moon flights indefinitely, because they could see no way to protect their cosmonauts from the insurmountable dangers posed by solar flare radiation. Well into 1966, around the time Russia put Lunik 10 in lunar orbit, Sir Bernard remained in contact with the Soviets asking when they intended to send a human to the moon.
In 1999, Sir Bernard was quoted by the BBC along these lines: “I had frequently asked my Soviet contacts when they intended to send a human being to the moon and their response was always ‘when we can be absolutely certain of getting him back alive’. And they did not believe the Americans would do this and in fact it’s pretty clear that the Americans did take considerable risk.”

Well into December 1968, Alexei Leonov and his comrades pleaded the politburo to let them pilot Zond 7 around the moon, as the Zonds 5 & 6 had already flown around the moon and returned to earth in September and November of that year – the former of which was successfully recovered. But their pleas were rejected despite having proven their capabilities with Zond 5.

Jarrah believes that Russia may likely have planned to fake their manned moon flights too. Aboard Zond 5 was an audio cassette player which played back the voices of cosmonauts Pavel Popevich and Vitali Sevastyanov. At the time many thought Russia had sent the first men around the moon, but upon return of the capsule it was revealed that it was only a tape recording. NASA, who at the time weren’t officially planning a ‘manned’ moon mission until April or May 1969, responded to the tape recorder stunt by changing Apollo 8’s flight plan from a high earth orbit flight to a lunar orbit flight in December 1968.

Russia had the opportunity to claim victory over the Americans, but they let it slip through their fingers. But even if they were to cry foul on the Americans, it would only jeopardize their own program. If the USSR was to come out and say that Apollo was faked due to lethal radiation, the Americans would just as easily cry foul if the Soviets proceeded to fake their own for the same reason.

The second reason for their silence would be because of free trade deals. Since the Kennedy administration, the United States government and its allies had been selling tons of American wheat to the Soviets. It’s no different to modern times: the US cuts multi-billion dollar trade deals with the Chinese and in turn China gets kicked off America’s list of human rights violators, likewise Russia gets tons of wheat in return for silence.

Thirdly, nowadays the Russian and American space programs are partners in crime. In the early 70s the US and Soviets agreed to work cooperatively in the exploration of space. This international cooperation became a reality in 1975 with the Apollo Soyuz Test Project, the first joint mission. Many other missions followed and Russia essentially became the United States’ best ally. In the 1990s, with the Buran program cancelled, the Russians had no shuttle to get to their Mir space station, only Soyuz. And the US had no equivalent to Mir. The solution was the Shuttle-Mir program, in which US shuttles carried astronauts and cosmonauts to and from the Russian Mir space station. Now the US and Russia have collaborated towards the construction of the International Space Station, involving not only them but also every other space nation – except for the US’s best trade partner, the Chinese.

The Russians were also kind enough to give American astronauts a ride to space aboard the Soyuz during the time the shuttle was grounded. And with the termination of the shuttle program, the US will now be reliant on Russia’s Soyuz to get to the ISS. It’s essentially a one-world space government, one big happy family. No one will blow the whistle on anybody.

Q: What is the most compelling evidence that the moon missions were faked?

A: Jarrah can nail it down to four pieces of evidence.

First, as demonstrated by James Van Allen’s own findings, the radiation belts that surround earth would have been lethal to astronauts. It began in 1952 when James Van Allen & his team at the University of Iowa began launching Geiger counters into space aboard rockoons. Although these did not have enough lift to get into orbit, these experiments were able to detect radiation levels higher than what Van Allen had expected. Later in the late 50s and early 60s, his Geiger counters were carried aloft by the Explorer satellites and Pioneer space probes. Each time the spacecrafts entered the radiation belts, the Geiger counters would become continuously busy. They encountered protons and electrons with fluxes of 40,000 particles per square centimetre per second and average energies ranging between 1-100 MeV.

Before Van Allen began shielding his Geiger counters with a millimetre of lead, the instruments detected radiation with a dose rate equivalent of 312.5rad/hr to 11,666rad/hr for the outer belt and inner belt respectively [Fig-2]12. These instruments quickly became jammed by the radiation. Even to this day, the belts are so severe that satellites must operate outside the belts: geostationary satellites operating beyond the end of the outer belt (but still within the protection of the magnetosphere) and GPS satellites operating in the gap between the two belts. Meanwhile low earth orbit satellites like the Hubble must shut down some of their instruments during South Atlantic Anomaly (SAA) transit. Even after Van Allen shielded his Geiger counters with lead, the results were still equivalent to 10-100rad/hr. He concluded that effective shielding of astronauts was beyond engineering feasibility available at the time, that even a rapid transit through the belts would be hazardous, and that for these reasons the two belts must be classed as an uninhabitable region of space that all manned space flight must steer clear of.

Even if we discount the Van Allen belt, there are still other dangers to consider. The sun constantly bombards the earth-moon system with solar flares. Regardless of whether these flares deliver x-rays or protons, or are minor or major, both are a hazard to humans. A major flare delivers in excess of 100rad/hr, a minor flare can deliver 25rad/hr depending on how many centimetres of water shielding is used. The minor flares of May 10th and July 15th 1958 for example, would have required 31gm/cm2 of water just to bring their dose rates down to 25rad/hr [Fig-3]. The Apollo capsule, with its aluminium honeycomb hull and outer epoxy resin ablator, was rated at 3gm/cm2 on the walls and 8gm/cm2 on the aft heatshield. The thicker portion of the spacecraft walls would bring the dose rate of such flares down to around 1,000rem/hr. The records show that 1400 of these minor flares occurred over all nine moon flights (Tables 1 & 2). NOAA’s Comprehensive Flare Index for Major flares, also reveals that thirty of the major ones took place during the Apollo missions. By any definition, these astronauts should have been as dead as spam in a can.

The second smoking gun is the fact that the Apollo 10 telecasts were proven to have been pre-filmed and edited together. After every space mission, NASA releases a ground-to-air communications transcript covering everything the crew and capsule communicators (Capcoms) said during the flight. The company Spacecraft Films sells what they claim is complete and unedited television transmissions and 16mm reels from the Apollo missions. Jarrah purchased the Apollo 10 DVD set and compared the in-flight videos with the transcript. To his astonishment, Jarrah found numerous occasions in which the views of earth and even interior shots would cut from one angle to another and yet the audio would remain perfectly synchronized to the video with no signs of interruption when the video cut. So we know that the astronauts didn’t simply cut the camera and then begin rolling moments later.

The Apollo astronauts had only the one television camera hooked up to the S-band antenna, so these broadcasts should be one continuous shot with no edits – as per the false claims made by propagandists. Because these edits only take place during post production, not whilst the video is being recorded, it would not have been possible to cut and paste LIVE video. The only logical conclusion is that the views of earth were pre-filmed, edited together, and then sandwiched between the interior shots with the ground-to-air communications dubbing the video regardless of the edits. Transitions from these fake views of earth videos to interior scenes were pulled off by conveniently cutting the camera or blacking the scene from interior to exterior and vice versa, in one circumstance Eugene Cernan went as far as putting a piece of paper in front of the camera lens during this switch from exterior to interior!

By comparing the videos with the transcript, Jarrah also discovered that there were sections of video missing from the “complete” Spacecraft Films DVD set. Jarrah knows these missing pieces of video exist, because in the transcript the Capcom confirms that the MSFN was ‘receiving’ them. For reasons unknown, Spacecraft Films omitted minutes of footage from Apollo 10 and then sold their DVD set to the world as “complete & unedited.”

After Jarrah released his video covering this, ironically titled “Flagging The Gems”, Mark Gray of Spacecraft Films flagged it for copyright infringement and had the video pulled along with Jarrah’s entire Youtube account. Gray’s copyright claims are fraudulent and thus he is guilty of perjury, because NASA’s in flight telecasts are PUBLIC DOMAIN. They are not copyrighted.

The third piece of evidence that the Apollo missions were faked is the fact that the moon rocks actually on the moon later turned out to be different to the ones the astronauts supposedly collected. See below.

Fourth, and probably the most visually identifiable, is the fact the framerate of the Apollo 11 telecast is not what NASA claimed it was. NASA claims that the only television camera that recorded the Apollo 11 EVA was a B&W non-interlaced Westinghouse camera that ran at 10fps. As this framerate is lower than both conventional television framerates of PAL (25fps, interlaced) or NTSC (30fps, interlaced), the video allegedly received by the DSN and MSFN needed to be converted to NTSC. NASA says that this was done by pointing an NTSC TV camera at a screen that displayed the 10fps feed. The unfiltered 10fps was recorded on 1inch reels, but only the 2inch reel containing the NTSC conversion have survived.

Nonetheless, it is important to note that at least 24fps (cinema) is sufficient to show fluent motion. Framerates lower than 24fps, especially as low as 10fps, will appear very jumpy. Because fourteen important frames of natural motion are missing. Additionally, in a 10fps to 30fps conversion, the motion on screen would update only once every three frames. Because the camera pointed to the screen would have recorded the same display three times.

Frame by frame analysis of the digital transfers of NASA’s 2inch reels however reveal this not to be the case. The motion of the astronauts’ movement is very smooth and not jumpy at all. And frames update not once every three frames, but four out of every five frames with the odd one out being an overlay of the frames before and after. This clearly indicates that the Apollo 11 EVA video playback speed was not 10fps but 24fps. Meaning the EVA was shot with a camera that reportedly was not in the Apollo 11 crews possession during the time they were supposedly on the moon.

[BenDhyan]

The gist of your post Belligerent Savant, is that a hoax was possible, but it involved sending unmanned missions to the moon, in which case the cost is pretty much the same as sending astronauts along too. But now we have the additional cost of corrupting the NASA employees in order to keep the secret. All of the astronauts for starters, one wonders how much they were paid to lie to the world, until now. Oh and the ground crew who would have had to be complicit in secreting the 3 NASA astronauts off the Command Capsule on top of the Saturn V each time before it launched, they too must have been bribed until now, unless the astronauts went along for the ride. The list of people who would have to be bribed would go on and on...and miracle of miracles, none have blabbed!

[Belligerent Savant]

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How much are intel agency operatives paid to lie? Or politicians, or spokespersons for corporations, or news media 'journalists' -- either in part or in whole, fully aware or only partially aware of the lies they tell and/or take part in?

In a hoax scenario, the astronauts involved wouldn't need to be 'bribed'; they were involved and aware in advance. The terms of the agreement are outside our purview, but we do know, of course, that humans are fully capable of lying (or susceptible to compromise) for any number of reasons, or perhaps for no discernable reason at all.

I certainly don't underestimate the wherewithal of any govt agency in procuring whatever funds, incentives and/or narratives deemed beneficial to a larger agenda, as history (and ongoing global events) has/have repeatedly shown.

[BenDhyan]

Ok, perhaps it is now time to move on from Apollo, the future beckons and we can now look forward to Artemis. A manned mission around the moon next year...

NASA unveils schedule for Artemis 2024 manned moon mission

Administrator Jim Bridenstine confirmed that Artemis 1 will be an uncrewed mission around the moon planned for 2020.

Next will come Artemis 2, which will orbit Earth’s satellite with a crew around 2022; followed finally by Artemis 3 that will put astronauts on lunar soil in 2024, including the first woman.

-snip

He added: “Our goal is ultimately to move on to Mars and not get stuck on the surface of the moon.”

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/05/24/world/science-health-world/nasa-unveils-schedule-artemis-2024-manned-moon-mission/#.XOo6do9S_IU

[Belligerent Savant]

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Sean Connery has first-hand knowledge of the studio whereabouts. Surely he'll talk in exchange for a few rounds of stiff martinis -- shaken, not stirred.

[Cordelia]

..."trust me."

I trust them--these men of science swore an oath on The Bible.


George E. Mueller being sworn in, as Associate Administrator for the Office of Manned Space Flight for NASA, by Hugh Dryden, NASAs Deputy Administrator. The ceremony took place at NASA HQ in Washington, DC on September 3, 1963. Mueller served as Associate Administrator from 1963 to 1969, where he was responsible for overseeing the completion of Project Apollo and for beginning the development of the Space Shuttle.


As the world knows, many served and supported their countries during wartime before being brought to the U.S. to further serve mankind.


First rank, from left to right, General Dr Walter Dornberger (partially hidden), General Friedrich Olbricht (with Knight's Cross), Major Heinz Brandt, and Wernher von Braun (in civilian dress) at Peenemünde, in March 1941.

GERMAN-BORN NASA EXPERT QUITS U.S. TO AVOID A WAR CRIMES SUIT

By RALPH BLUMENTHAL OCT. 18, 1984

A German-born space official who developed the rocket that carried Americans to the moon has quietly left the United States and surrendered his citizenship rather than face Justice Department charges that he had brutalized slave laborers at a Nazi rocket factory during World War II.

Announcing the action yesterday in a brief statement, the Justice Department said that the official, Arthur Rudolph, as director for production of V-2 rockets at an underground factory attached to the Dora-Nordhausen camp from 1943 to 1945, ''participated in the persecution of forced laborers, including concentration camp inmates, who were employed there under inhumane conditions.'' A third to one half of Dora's 60,000 prisoners died.

The National Aeronautics and Space Administration, which had awarded high awards to Mr. Rudolph for his work for the agency from 1962 from 1969, had no comment on the Justice Department announcement. (Page A13.)

The announcement on Mr. Rudolph, who was brought to the United States in 1945 with Wernher von Braun and more than a hundred other Nazi German technicians and scientists, was negotiated in advance with Mr. Rudolph

https://www.nytimes.com/1984/10/18/worl ... -suit.html

Arthur Rudolph, shown in this Feb. 1989 file photo, the former German rocket scientist who helped put Americans on the moon but left the United States after being accused of Nazi war crimes. ASSOCIATED PRESS



Surely they wouldn't LIE!


The control room during the Apollo 11 Mission. Left to right: NASA Marshall Space Flight Center Director Wernher von Braun, Manned Space Flight Deputy Associate Administrator Charles W. Matthews; George Mueller; Apollo Program Director Samuel C. Phillips. (NASA.gov)