Who Parked The Moon?

[JackRiddler]

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Diamonds Are Forever was released in December 1971, a full year before the final moon mission (Apollo 17) in December 1972. Independently of what the truth may be, they were first to voice or parody the moon hoax idea! Hollywood is amazing that way.

[Wombaticus Rex]

And remember, the Saturn V rocket launches were open to the public, they were literally seen being launched, point being if they were not going to the moon, the cost would be the same, because all the cost is in the rocket, once it is launched there is no other costs except ongoing operations.

To be clear, I am not an adherent of any school here -- but most especially not the "Secret Space Program" grift that Richard Dolan has sadly settled into in recent years. NASA was involved in absolutely massive research -- Christ Almighty, the sheer size of the Rockwell facilities alone make it pretty clear there was an earnest propulsion program going at considerable scale.

Due to family circumstances, I have been treated to roughly 500 interminable lectures on the SEC tube and Westinghouse's access to that technology and the conflicts over finding space for cameras inside the cabin. What NASA mobilized was something impressive, as it had to be, since we were the heir to Von Braun's mighty genius.

But the thing is, all those technological advances have mostly been industrialized (and weaponized) since, innit? All that top-secret development work didn't amount to much of a space program, but damn, we got a lot gadgets and missiles out of the deal.

However, much more importantly, I also think you're underestimating the power of simple deception. All it would take is a few key engineers, managers and contractors.

I absolutely agree that this would represent a material risk, because there is nothing more dangerous to covert operations than a single autist noticing something is wrong and trying to find out why ... but then again, such people can simply be killed, too. This is how our world works.

So perhaps, despite my disdain for the crowd, I find myself a "Limited Hangout Secret Space Program" advocate. What was really being tested with advanced communications facilities in Australia? Is there another, existing, ongoing program involving advanced communications facilities in Australia? Does that involve space travel telemetry or does that involve intercepting SIGINT?

It wasn't some secret empire that was being funded: it was the very mundane empire we have in plain sight today.

[identity]

Q: How were the videos and still pictures faked?

A: They were filmed either in a studio or on location in the Nevada desert. When it came down to filming the moonwalk scenes, lunar gravity was simulated by suspending the astronauts on wires to reduce their weight. And to complete the look, the videos of the astronauts on wires were played back in slow motion.

Ironically, the Mythbusters recently tried to debunk this by filming Adam Savage running around in a replica spacesuit. They filmed him both with and without wire suspension. But the only slow motion footage shown was of when he was not suspended by a wire. If one takes his wire jump footage, slows it down to 67% and then plays it alongside the original Apollo 16 footage, the two are a near-perfect synchronization.

FWIW, from Winston Wu:

Slow motion movements and low jumps in 1/6 Earth gravity

Here is another discrepancy that is right under your nose that you never realized. The Moon’s gravity is 1/6 that of the Earth’s. What this means is that if you were on the moon, you could move faster and jump higher. But in the moon landing footage, the astronauts are actually moving SLOWER than they would the Earth! (Oops, must be a major screw up there by the producers, or else they were not able to simulate low gravity in the studio) Go figure.

The Apollo defenders have no argument against this simple discrepancy except by saying that the astronaut space suits were so heavy that it made movement slow. However, even if that were so, in 1/6 gravity, they still should have been able to move faster and jump higher than if they were on Earth. Further, the dirt being kicked up in the video of the lunar rover vehicle should have been shooting up higher in 1/6 gravity as well, than if it were on Earth.

Now keep in mind, these are not just “anomalies”. They are conclusive technical discrepancies which lead to the inescapable conclusion that the Apollo moon photos could not have been taken on the moon. Of that we can at least be sure of, regardless if anyone has been to the moon or not.

[identity]

Also from Wu:

Apollo space suits and cameras had no protective ability against extreme heat and cold

The space suits used by the Apollo 11 astronauts had no protective ability against the extreme temperatures on the surface of the moon. The blueprints of the suits did not indicate any shielding ability at all. And NASA refuses to allow anyone to examine the space suits or test them at high temperatures.

Due to there being no atmosphere on the moon to provide convection for heating and cooling, on the daylight side, which all Apollo missions landed on, temperatures are at 250 Fahrenheit and in the shade drop drastically to 250 below zero.

Yet the astronauts had no sufficient cooling system, especially with the batteries they had, which were comparable to that of a car. Since the moon atmosphere is in a vacuum, they could not use air convection to cool off. So they would have needed a lot of power to radiate heat away from them, which would have drained what precious battery power they had.

Further, the Hassalblad cameras and film inside could not have withstood such temperatures to be seen today. Kodak has said that its film can only withstand temperatures up to 150F.

[BenDhyan]

So perhaps, despite my disdain for the crowd, I find myself a "Limited Hangout Secret Space Program" advocate. What was really being tested with advanced communications facilities in Australia? Is there another, existing, ongoing program involving advanced communications facilities in Australia? Does that involve space travel telemetry or does that involve intercepting SIGINT?

Seems we are at a impasse wrt our respective positions on the legitimacy of the Apollo Program Wombaticus, never mind, this time we can observe the Artemis program as it unfolds and note any suspected fakery in real time. Hopefully people will never hear in the 2030s that the Artemis moon landings were a hoax.

Concerning US space related operations in Australia, when I worked at a very modest and simple Aussie government Landsat Data Acquisition Facility at Alice Springs in the 80's, I became aware of the operations of the Joint Defence Facility Nurrungar which did Sigint (I actually worked with a bloke who came to us from there, he didn't blab much), and the Joint Defence Facility Pine Gap (one of our guys went to work there, plus I had an old friend working there). Pine Gap had a CIA guy as its head, I met him briefly when he came over to visit one time, I was the supervising tech and was given little notice of the visit, he and a couple of others just turned up with little cordiality. He sort of stiffened a bit when he saw a blown up Landsat image at 30 meter resolution of the Pine Gap Facility on the wall. All the radomes and buildings were clearly visible. They huddled around it muttering to themselves, I was amused but also nervous, but heard no more about it.

Anyways Pine Gap did photo recon (KH satellites) and other space surveillance (rocket launches, missile inflight burns, etc.), and the Nurrungar Sigint program was moved there as well later on.. What else was going on is anyone's guess, there were always lots of rumours, but I only know what I know.

[BenDhyan]

Also from Wu:

Apollo space suits and cameras had no protective ability against extreme heat and cold

The space suits used by the Apollo 11 astronauts had no protective ability against the extreme temperatures on the surface of the moon. The blueprints of the suits did not indicate any shielding ability at all. And NASA refuses to allow anyone to examine the space suits or test them at high temperatures.

Due to there being no atmosphere on the moon to provide convection for heating and cooling, on the daylight side, which all Apollo missions landed on, temperatures are at 250 Fahrenheit and in the shade drop drastically to 250 below zero.

Yet the astronauts had no sufficient cooling system, especially with the batteries they had, which were comparable to that of a car. Since the moon atmosphere is in a vacuum, they could not use air convection to cool off. So they would have needed a lot of power to radiate heat away from them, which would have drained what precious battery power they had.

Further, the Hassalblad cameras and film inside could not have withstood such temperatures to be seen today. Kodak has said that its film can only withstand temperatures up to 150F.

Wow, wu certainly is an apt name for your source...
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Project Apollo Space Suit

The Apollo suit consisted of the following:

A water-cooled nylon undergarment

A multi-layered pressure suit: inside layer - lightweight nylon with fabric vents; middle layer - neoprene-coated nylon to hold pressure; outer layer - nylon to restrain the pressurized layers beneath

Five layers of aluminized Mylar interwoven with four layers of Dacron for heat protection

Two layers of Kapton for additional heat protection

A layer of Teflon-coated cloth (nonflammable) for protection from scrapes

A layer of white Teflon cloth (nonflammable)

The suit had boots, gloves, a communications cap and a clear plastic helmet. During liftoff, the suit's oxygen and cooling water were supplied by the ship.

For walking on the moon, the space suit was supplemented with a pair of protective overboots, gloves with rubber fingertips, a set of filters/visors worn over the helmet for protection from sunlight, and a portable life support backpack that contained oxygen, carbon-dioxide removal equipment and cooling water. The space suit and backpack weighed 180 lb on Earth, but only 30 lb on the moon.

https://science.howstuffworks.com/space-suit3.htm

NASA Apollo project Space Suit (A7LB PGA)

temperature endure to : from -290 to +310 Fahrenheit (from -179 to +154 Celsius)

inner pressure : 3.70 - 3.90 pound / square inch

running time : 7 hours(continuously), 160 hours(total)

weight : approximately 180 pound (all equipments include PLSS)

manufacturer : Space suits : International Latex Corp.(ILC DOVER Inc. at present) Back Pack (PLSS) : Hamilton Standard Division of United Aircraft Corp.

Overview

We must need special made "Space Suit" to protect mankind from hard temperature change, vacuum, micrometeoroid in space. On the moon, it becomes 120 degree Celsius (250 Fahrenheit) at daytime, and -157 degree (-250) at nighttime. And micrometeoroid pours in 102,400km/h(64,000mph), exposed in harmful ultraviolet rays from the sun. So, we can not live in space for only few seconds without Space Suits.

History

Space suit in Mercury project, it was improved product from pressure suit of U.S. Navy high altitude jet fighter. This was not complete airtight suit. This was back up for spacecraft's pressurization. In Gemini project, joint mechanism was developed for bend arms and legs in pressurized environment by U.S.Airforce's research. It had a combination of a pressure bladder and a link-net restraint layer that made the whole suit flexible when pressureized. In Apollo project, it must have to offer protection from jagged rocks and the searing heat of the lunar day. And had to be flexible enough to permit gathering samples from the moon surface.

https://www.apollomaniacs.com/apollo/spacesuite.htm

[Wombaticus Rex]

Seems we are at a impasse wrt our respective positions on the legitimacy of the Apollo Program Wombaticus, never mind

Not at all, I really don't have one so we'll continue to get along fine. Really enjoying the details in the past 2 pages of this thread.

[stickdog99]

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Diamonds Are Forever was released in December 1971, a full year before the final moon mission (Apollo 17) in December 1972. Independently of what the truth may be, they were first to voice or parody the moon hoax idea! Hollywood is amazing that way.

Well, this one is from 1959, and the special effects convinced millions of Americans that well-trained astronauts could safely travel beyond the Van Allen belts

[DrEvil]

That's because they could. It's not like they're going to get instantly fried as soon as they enter the belt, and they only spent a short amount of time there. They probably had an increased risk of cancer later in life (and a medical regime designed to catch that as early as possible), but it's not an automatic death sentence.

[Belligerent Savant]

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That may well be.

They had to traverse the belts twice per trip, of course. And then there's also harmful exposure beyond the belts (solar flares, etc).

As I mentioned a couple pages back, most of the astronauts that reportedly landed on the moon made it to ripe, old age (and some still walk among the living!). If indeed they were exposed, it must be true that it had minimal impact given their longevity.

[DrEvil]

Obviously it gives them an increased chance of getting cancer, but that's no guarantee that they will. It might increase the odds from 1/1000 to 5/1000 or something (numbers retrieved from my ass).

I've been watching the Chernobyl mini-series on HBO lately (it's excellent btw), and at one point three guys go diving in the highly radioactive water underneath the reactor to open a valve and prevent a massive steam explosion. That really happened, and everyone always assumed those guys died "heroically" from radiation poisoning. Turns out one of them died from heart failure in 2005 and the other two are still alive.

[BenDhyan]

Van Allen Belt radiation problems were mitigated with the appropriate spacecraft shielding, and spacecraft speed and trajectory through the lower level radiation area of the belts.

Here are the levels of radiation dosage experienced by astronauts on each of the Apollo manned missions.




https://history.nasa.gov/SP-368/s2ch3.htm

Apollo missions registered average radiation doses to the skin of the astronauts of 0.38 rad. This is about the same radiation dose as getting two CT scans of your head, or half the dose of a single chest CT scan; not too bad, though not something you should do every week.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jillianscudder/2017/06/16/astroquizzical-van-allen-belts-barrier-spaceflight/#7a5458dc6f8d

[Belligerent Savant]

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Dr. Evil:

Been meaning to catch that Chernobyl 'mini'-series. Only saw the first episode so far but looks very promising.

...at one point three guys go diving in the highly radioactive water underneath the reactor to open a valve and prevent a massive steam explosion. That really happened, and everyone always assumed those guys died "heroically" from radiation poisoning. Turns out one of them died from heart failure in 2005 and the other two are still alive.

Indeed. Doesn't quite offset the scores that DID die due to radiation exposure, though...

While there is rough agreement that a total of either 31 or 54 people died from blast trauma or acute radiation syndrome (ARS) as a direct result of the disaster, there is considerable debate concerning the accurate number of deaths due to the disaster's long-term health effects, with estimates ranging from 4,000 (per the 2005 and 2006 conclusions of a joint consortium of the United Nations and the governments of Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia), to no fewer than 93,000 (per the conflicting conclusions of various scientific, health, environmental, and survivors' organizations).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_du ... l_disaster



Ben Dhyan typed:

Van Allen Belt radiation problems were mitigated with the appropriate spacecraft shielding

Oh you mean the 3 layers of tin foil and epoxy resin?

From a source on the prior page of this thread:

The Apollo capsule, with its aluminium honeycomb hull and outer epoxy resin ablator, was rated at 3gm/cm2 on the walls and 8gm/cm2 on the aft heatshield. The thicker portion of the spacecraft walls would bring the dose rate of such [solar] flares down to around 1,000rem/hr. The records show that 1400 of these minor flares occurred over all nine moon flights (Tables 1 & 2). NOAA’s Comprehensive Flare Index for Major flares, also reveals that thirty of the major ones took place during the Apollo missions. By any definition, these astronauts should have been as dead as spam in a can.

Citing history.nasa.gov as your source may well make sense for those that subscribe to NASA's narratives, but is there a way to verify their claims?*

*largely rhetorical. Of course there's plenty of establishment media sources available to back NASA's claims, just as there are plentiful media sources to back a U.S.-backed coup in Venezuela. Or justification for invading Iraq. Or [insert propaganda narrative here].

Let's just start a Go Fund Me page to get the RI squad aboard the Musk or Bezos craft and put this debate to rest!

I'll kick things off by contributing 100 pesos to the cause.

[BenDhyan]

Well yes Belligerent Savant, I do deem NASA as the more credible source, if you think the NASA narrative is fake, and your sources not, then that's just the reality.

[Belligerent Savant]

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To be clear, I say nothing here with certainty; I remain, as ever, agnostic on the matter, though acknowledge a general disdain for any source ending in .gov.


While we're on the topic of NASA's credibility, I encourage y'all to fast forward to about the 36min mark of the below video to the Q&A portion of the 2012 press conference after the reported landing of the Curiosity Rover.
What does your 'rigorous intuition' tell you when listening to 'Lead Engineer' Adam Steltzner's replies to the questions posed (by a largely sycophantic audience, no less)? Do his replies bolster NASA's credibility?