FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION: films of a certain quality

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Re: FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION: films of a certain quality

Postby JackRiddler » Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:37 am

RocketMan » Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:29 am wrote:Wow, that is some impressive micro level work Jack. :D Thank you for the effort.


Unfortunately, yes, it is. Way more micro than it deserves. McKay can call Cheney a serial war criminal and still be nominated for an Oscar. But he can't do 9/11 skepticism. Best that can be said is the film version takes no position, could be consistent with any timeline.

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Re: FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION: films of a certain quality

Postby Jerky » Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:04 am

The film was quite wonderful in my opinion, as far as the cinematic artform is concerned. Inventive and entertaining as all get out, an excellently performed, beautifully mounted, somewhat informative effort from the director who brought us the equally salutary The Big Short not all that long ago. It was never going to blow MIHOP or LIHOP wide open, like some people were apparently hoping for (I mean, come on folks), so Jack's take is pretty much right on in my opinion. And if anyone is qualified to hold this movie's feet to the fire based on matters of conspiracy swirling around 9/11, it's Jack.

And if there's a touch of polemic to it, so what? At least liberals do polemic WELL, unlike the Far Right, who shit into their own partisans' eyes and ears with the likes of "God is NOT Dead! Pttfftt!" and "Obama's Nation is an Abomination!" or whatever histrionic, spite-fueled, lie-packed spiel of talking points they're huckstering to their dead-eyed audience this season.

Olson's piffle about how VICE is "anti-Cheney propaganda", and that rewarding it would "prove that Hollywood hates half of America" is precisely as stupid as that sounds. Not exactly sure why Cordelia would bring it to our attention, except to mock it.

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Re: FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION: films of a certain quality

Postby RocketMan » Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:20 am

Nah, the stylistic "experimentations" would have been kind of old in the 90s and it did not present any fresh point of view on the basic banality of evil premise.
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Re: FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION: films of a certain quality

Postby Jerky » Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:46 am

I'm not saying it was a groundbreaking work of experimental cinema. Nor should it be. McKay isn't Maya Deren FFS. But for the kind of movie it is, it certainly has the kind of gutsy, bravura, unexpected flourishes that one wishes one would see more of in contemporary cinema.

Context is everything, RocketMan. Can you point out a big budget political biopic from the last two decades that is MORE "experimental" in its formal presentation than this one is?

I liked it, and I am difficult to please. I see everything - including the farthest of the far out experimental/transgressive stuff - and it surprised me.

More like VICE, please, and less of The King's Speech Impediment, or those awful, syrupy movies about Alan Turing and Stephen Hawking.

YOPJ

RocketMan » 10 Mar 2019 08:20 wrote:Nah, the stylistic "experimentations" would have been kind of old in the 90s and it did not present any fresh point of view on the basic banality of evil premise.
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Re: FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION: films of a certain quality

Postby RocketMan » Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:54 am

I can point you to Oliver Stone's Nixon, though it's 24 years old now. Underrated masterpiece and genuinely audacious in form. Budget probably way larger than Vice's, adjusted for inflation. Also a tremendous flop financially.

I don't need "groundbreaking", but arthritic, forced attempts at some sort of pomo sensibility are worse than just saying something straight and sincerely, even if in a little boring way. Stone goes all-out in Nixon, no half measures there. I recommend the "Election Year Edition" Blu-Ray.

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Jerky » Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:46 pm wrote:I'm not saying it was a groundbreaking work of experimental cinema. Nor should it be. McKay isn't Maya Deren FFS. But for the kind of movie it is, it certainly has the kind of gutsy, bravura, unexpected flourishes that one wishes one would see more of in contemporary cinema.

Context is everything, RocketMan. Can you point out a big budget political biopic from the last two decades that is MORE "experimental" in its formal presentation than this one is?

I liked it, and I am difficult to please. I see everything - including the farthest of the far out experimental/transgressive stuff - and it surprised me.

More like VICE, please, and less of The King's Speech Impediment, or those awful, syrupy movies about Alan Turing and Stephen Hawking.

YOPJ

RocketMan » 10 Mar 2019 08:20 wrote:Nah, the stylistic "experimentations" would have been kind of old in the 90s and it did not present any fresh point of view on the basic banality of evil premise.
-I don't like hoodlums.
-That's just a word, Marlowe. We have that kind of world. Two wars gave it to us and we are going to keep it.
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Re: FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION: films of a certain quality

Postby JackRiddler » Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:29 am

If you're going to compare it to Nixon, then yes, I see Vice as aesthetically minor and politically inferior by comparison. That was a great movie. Thanks for reminding me that damn good night at the cinema is by no means the top of the scale. I shouldn't say Vice is enjoyable given the subject but it is "damn good" which would be a kind of 6/10 by the Kubrick=10 standard, and thus 95th percentile work. But not because this is a "fun" movie. At least it's putting the sledgehammer to bad things and bad people, with varying degrees of competence during the execution. I actually hit the back of the chair in anger at one point during the buildup for the Iraq invasion. (No one was sitting in it.)
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Re: FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION: films of a certain quality

Postby RocketMan » Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:09 am

I don't think Vice is "a turkey" by any means, just minor and disposable. But perhaps the cultural zeitgeist is so anodyne and late-capitalist by this point that Vice is some kind of sign of life. I dunno.
-I don't like hoodlums.
-That's just a word, Marlowe. We have that kind of world. Two wars gave it to us and we are going to keep it.
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Re: FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION: films of a certain quality

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:40 pm

.

Agree with the sentiments Re: Stone's Nixon. Vice is on my "watch" list -- eager to view it, for all the reasons indicated by Jack, RocketMan and Jerky.

One of several interesting bits from Nixon:


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Re: FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION: films of a certain quality

Postby JackRiddler » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:05 am

Casting Larry Hagman for that role was brilliance. (Dallas oil man)
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Re: FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION: films of a certain quality

Postby Cordelia » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:47 am

Anthony Hopkins signed on for the role of Nixon after Tom Hanks turned it down. :clapping: (Hanks play a Shakespearean character?)
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Re: FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION: films of a certain quality

Postby RocketMan » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:14 am

Cordelia » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:47 pm wrote:Anthony Hopkins signed on for the role of Nixon after Tom Hanks turned it down. :clapping: (Hanks play a Shakespearean character?)


Wow... Really?? I recall that also Gary Oldman might have been considered. And I would have preferred John Turturro to Paul Sorvino as Kissinger, as was originally planned, though Sorvino is good in the role.
-I don't like hoodlums.
-That's just a word, Marlowe. We have that kind of world. Two wars gave it to us and we are going to keep it.
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Re: FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION: films of a certain quality

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:49 am

Two complete opposites:

"Braid" was dark, colorful, traumatic and incredible -- worth seeing cold.

"Mega Time Squad" was funny, colorful, and extremely New Zealand. Some of the best laughs I've had so far this year.
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Re: FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION: films of a certain quality

Postby thrulookingglass » Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:09 pm

Odd synchronicity here, I just re-watched Oliver Stone's Nixon recently. Excellence in cinema! Great use of cinematography. Bombs dropping on Laos as he accepts the GOP nomination for PoUSA. Best part of this film has to be the meeting of the two dicks where Nixon and Helms have a power struggle. Sam Waterston's portrayal of Helms is priceless. The whole exchange is mind numbingly cool. When Helm's eyes roll over black (reminded me of the better days of the X-files) as he's reciting Yates Second Coming is just eerie!
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Re: FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION: films of a certain quality

Postby streeb » Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:35 pm

thrulookingglass said:

Best part of this film has to be the meeting of the two dicks where Nixon and Helms have a power struggle. Sam Waterston's portrayal of Helms is priceless. The whole exchange is mind numbingly cool. When Helm's eyes roll over black (reminded me of the better days of the X-files) as he's reciting Yates Second Coming is just eerie!


Oh yes, yes, yes, such a great scene. Should be posted:

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Re: FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION: films of a certain quality

Postby RocketMan » Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:02 pm

streeb » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:35 pm wrote:thrulookingglass said:

Best part of this film has to be the meeting of the two dicks where Nixon and Helms have a power struggle. Sam Waterston's portrayal of Helms is priceless. The whole exchange is mind numbingly cool. When Helm's eyes roll over black (reminded me of the better days of the X-files) as he's reciting Yates Second Coming is just eerie!


Oh yes, yes, yes, such a great scene. Should be posted:



Yep. It's an unsung classic, that scene. THAT is how you direct a scene of two men talking in a room. A pretty amazing achievement, actually.

Stone mos def wanted it in the original cut but Helms was still alive and threatened to sue. After he died, it was included in the Director's Cut. :mrgreen:

Another pretty surreal fact about Nixon is that it's practically a Disney movie. :lol: :lol: :lol: It was released through Hollywood Pictures, a Disney subsidiary.
-I don't like hoodlums.
-That's just a word, Marlowe. We have that kind of world. Two wars gave it to us and we are going to keep it.
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