The Amazing Rita Katz and S.I.T.E.

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Re: The Amazing Rita Katz and S.I.T.E.

Postby slimmouse » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:37 am

AlicetheKurious wrote:
Why is it so hard to admit what could not possibly be more obvious? What would Israel have to do for you to abandon this bizarre, entirely baseless fantasy that the US' relationship with Israel is mutually beneficial?


Well, Alice heres what Israel would have to do to convince me that the US relationship is mutually beneficial to anyone but a handful of global elite to whom we are all useless eaters. Im not talking "Jews" either, since I consider that to be another artificial creation of useful convenience to the elite to whom I refer

It would have to be more than a crappy piece of rock which miraculously sprouted, largely courtesy of a biblical fairytale, on top of an oligarchically engineered rise to power of an Austrian psychopath, who was himself cradled to power courtesy of the same oligarchal elite.

The western intelligence agencies serve the ends of this tiny few almost without exception, and as such they are thick as thieves to that end.

That all the above should be as plain as the nose on anyones face is probably best encapsulated by that small crappy piece of rock upon which the state of Israel has been founded.
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Re: The Amazing Rita Katz and S.I.T.E.

Postby Hammer of Los » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:14 am

I'm not sure about the "crappy piece of rock," but otherwise I'm pretty much with Slim on this one.

Alice, I read your post, nodding, going yup yup you're right there. Until the last bit;

AlicetheKurious wrote:Why is it so hard to admit what could not possibly be more obvious? What would Israel have to do for you to abandon this bizarre, entirely baseless fantasy that the US' relationship with Israel is mutually beneficial?


I don't suppose the alliance is beneficial for "the US." I never said so. In fact, I obtusely fail to recognise any argument that personifies nation states. I prefer to think in terms of individuals. Personifying nation states or similar institutions brings confusion rather than clarity.

But I bet the alliance is beneficial for those invested in the US defense industries. Which is very nearly every politician in America. I bet the alliance is beneficial for those who like to demonise muslims in order to justify waging war across the Islamic world, too. It suits their geostrategic aims to control just about everywhere they can with their full spectrum dominance.

As slim says, beneficial for a tiny few, sure. A bloody nightmare for the rest of us.

Besides which I would rather be discussing gnosticism, or Chris Knowles, or the Esalen institute.

Furthermore, I have shopping to do and mouths to feed!

I bet your laundry pile is growing.

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Re: The Amazing Rita Katz and S.I.T.E.

Postby Nordic » Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:10 pm

Hammer of Los wrote:I bet your laundry pile is growing.

Love and kisses.



What kind of condescending pap is that??
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Re: The Amazing Rita Katz and S.I.T.E.

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:33 pm

I'm not actually licensed to do these audits but I read a lot...and I reckon that was approximately creepy fake smile grade condescending pap. Nearly Matt McCoy levels of smirkitude.

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Re: The Amazing Rita Katz and S.I.T.E.

Postby barracuda » Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:34 pm

AlicetheKurious wrote:
barracuda wrote:...you're trying to paint IntelCenter as Mossad on the basis of an Israeli partnership of the parent company, Verisign, when the reality could just as easily be that the DoD is the controlling agency here.


Actually, Verisign is more than just a partner with Verint. An SEC investigation in 2006 discovered that

...three companies have six directors who sit on more than one implicated company board—Comverse, Verint Systems, and Ulticom. Comverse is the controlling stockholder of Verint, the Corporate Library notes.

Verisign has five dual-board directors, while Juniper Networks and Xilinx have four. According to the study, two directors in the network of option-scandal boards—William H. Kurtz and Scott G. Kriens—connect the most boards.

...Novellus noted that Kurtz, who has been Novellus's CFO since September 2005, is a member of the boards of Redback Networks and PMC Sierra (which were both named in the report) and chairs the audit committees of both companies. Link


Bottom line: Ben Venske, CEO of IntelCenter was Director of Intelligence at a Verisign company. Verisign has 5 dual-board directors with fellow hi-tech Department of Defense contractors that are either Israeli owned or have significant ties to Israel. You may consider this to be relevant or not, as you wish.


You've misunderstood the import of the paragraphs quoted from CFO Magazine. VeriSign has five dual-board directors seated on boards of companies involved in the options backdating scandal, but not with any of the companies you cite as Israeli owned, at least as far as I can tell by looking closely at the boards of directors pages which are publicly avaliable. The CFO article does not state exactly which companies VeriSign has overlapping board members with out of the 120 companies involved.

VeriSign:

    D. James Bidzos
    William L. Chenevich
    Kathleen A. Cote
    Mark D. McLaughlin
    Roger H. Moore
    John D. Roach
    Louis A. Simpson
    Timothy Tomlinson

Comverse:

    Charles J. Burdick
    Andre Dahan
    Raz Alon
    Susan D. Bowick
    Robert Dubner
    Richard N. Nottenburg
    Joseph O’Donnell
    Augustus K. Oliver
    A. Alex Porter
    Theodore H. Schell
    Mark Terrell

Ulticom:

    Andre Dahan
    Shawn K. Osborne
    Paul D. Baker
    Michael J. Chill
    Ron Hiram
    John Bunyan
    Rex A. McWilliams
    Shefali Shah
    Joel Legon

Verint:

    Dan Bodner
    Peter Fante
    Elan Moriah
    David Parcell
    Douglas E. Robinson
    Meir Sperling

Juniper Networks:

    Scott Kriens
    Pradeep Sindhu
    Kevin Johnson
    Robert M. Calderoni
    Mary B. Cranston
    J. Michael Lawrie
    Stratton Sclavos
    William R. Stensrud
    William Meehan


Novellus:

    Richard S. Hill
    Fusen Chen Ph. D.
    Gino Addiego Ph.D.
    Timothy M. Archer
    Andrew Gottlieb
    John Hertz

Xilinx:

    Philip T. Gianos
    John L. Doyle
    Jerald G. Fishman
    Moshe Gavrielov
    William G. Howard, Jr.
    J. Michael Patterson
    Albert A. Pimentel
    Marshall C. Turner
    Elizabeth Vanderslice


So, no, the board of VeriSign has no overlap with any of the companies you've cited here. The only overlap which jumps out at me at all is that Andre Dahan is on the board of both Comverse and Ulticom, which isn't too sinister, as the latter is a subsidiary of the former, as you pointed out.

The CFO article does not support your assertion that VeriSign, or by extention, InterCenter, are acting as Mossad functionaries.
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Re: The Amazing Rita Katz and S.I.T.E.

Postby Hammer of Los » Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:19 pm

Silly old me wrote:I bet your laundry pile is growing.


I apologise if any offence was taken by you, Alice, or indeed by any who read my last post. More details on the apology thread, I don't want to derail this one;

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Re: The Amazing Rita Katz and S.I.T.E.

Postby AlicetheKurious » Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:49 pm

barracuda wrote:You've misunderstood the import of the paragraphs quoted from CFO Magazine. VeriSign has five dual-board directors seated on boards of companies involved in the options backdating scandal, but not with any of the companies you cite as Israeli owned, at least as far as I can tell by looking closely at the boards of directors pages which are publicly avaliable. The CFO article does not state exactly which companies VeriSign has overlapping board members with out of the 120 companies involved.


You're absolutely right! I'm mortified. I was trying to do too many things at once (and, no, laundry wasn't one of them) and post as well, and didn't read the full article as carefully as I should have.

The companies named in the SEC report are indeed those which share the greatest number of dual-board members with other companies implicated in the options scandal, not with each other. It is still interesting, however, that each of those companies all happen to have significant ties to both the U.S. defense establishment and to Israel.

barracuda wrote:The CFO article does not support your assertion that VeriSign, or by extention, InterCenter, are acting as Mossad functionaries.


Here, let me give it another shot. From Wikipedia ("keep it simple, stupid!"):

VeriSign was founded in 1995 as a spin-off of the RSA Security certification services business. The new company received licenses to key cryptographic patents held by RSA and a time limited non-compete agreement. The new company served as a certificate authority (CA) — a role it still fulfills — and its initial mission was "providing trust for the Internet and Electronic Commerce through our Digital Authentication services and products." VeriSign now has more than 3,000,000 certificates in operation for everything from military to financial services and retail applications, making it the largest CA behind the encryption and authentication on the Internet, which most people recognize as the small padlock icon in their Web browser when shopping online. Link


So, what is RSA Security, from which VeriSign is a "spin-off"? Ask Adi Shamir:

Adi Shamir is best known for his work in cryptography, specifically the construction of the RSA public-key encryption system and the subsequent co founding of the RSA Group. Subsequent to this work Shamir has also produced a number of cryptographically important advances.

Adi Shamir was born in Tel Aviv, Israel, in 1952. After schooling in the local area he went to university at the Weizmann Institute of Science, Rehovoth, Israel, where he studied mathematics. He was awarded his Ph.D. in 1977. Upon completion of his studies Shamir moved to the United States and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), where he worked in the Laboratory of Computer Science as an instructor. Here Shamir met Ronald L. Rivest and found one of his new tasks was to teach an advanced algorithm course--an area of which he only had a basic knowledge. Shamir obtained all of the library books on algorithms and quickly brought himself up to speed on the subject. Shamir's new-found knowledge fit in well with the work of Rivest and together they developed an algorithm for public-key cryptography (the ability of two people who had never met to communicate via computers in a secure manner), based on the work of Whitfield Diffie and Martin Hellman. The pair brought in a third researcher, Leonard Adleman, to test the system they had devised. Some of the initial systems they developed proved very easy to solve but on their 43rd attempt they found they had a level of encryption that was felt to be sufficient by all members of the group. The system, based on prime numbers and one-way functions (mathematical formulae that are simple to compute but almost impossible to reverse), was patented and the California-based RSA Data Security Incorporated was formed to look after the system. Eventually the patent was transferred to MIT (where all three were working at the time of development) and the company was taken over by Security Dynamics and the new company was called RSA Security.

In 1980 Shamir moved back to Israel to work at the Weizmann Institute of Science and in 1981 he was made the Paul and Marlene Borman Professor of Applied Mathematics and Computer Science. During his time at the Weizmann Institute Shamir has been responsible for the Fiat Shamir identification scheme and many other cryptographic systems, including a visual cryptosystem, zero-knowledge proofs (a system where proof is given that the key is held without the key being given over), secret dispersion, and differential cryptanalysis. At the end of the twentieth century Shamir announced TWINKLE (The Weizmann Institute Key Locating Engine). TWINKLE is an electro-optical device that will execute sieve-based factoring algorithms several times faster than a personal computer can achieve. The practical use of this system is that it could be utilized to break computer generated codes that have previously been regarded as secure, such as those used by financial and government systems. As of 2001 this idea has not been made reality.

In 2000, with the other members of the RSA Group, Shamir was awarded the IEEE Koji Kobayashi Computers and Communications Award and the Secure Computing Lifetime Achievement Award. Shamir also won the Kennedy prize in 1975 (the Weizmann University award for best Ph.D.) and the IEEE W. R. G. Baker prize in 1986--this was a solo award for Shamir for a paper entitled A Polynomial-Time Algorithm for Breaking the Basic Merkle-Hellman Cryptosystem. Adi Shamir has nearly 100 publications to his name.

During the development of the RSA key one or two unexpected problems were encountered--in 1977 Scientific American published a message encoded using the key and offered a $100 reward to anyone who could crack the code. As part of the competition readers were invited to write to the original authors for a copy of the scientific paper; all three then sent out thousands of copies of the paper. Unfortunately when the National Security Agency (NSA) heard about this the leadership saw serious implications for national security in the unlimited and partially overseas distribution of such a powerful method of encryption (the NSA's consternation was compounded by the fact that Shamir was not an American citizen). The NSA attempted to ban the exporting of encryption technology, but the distribution of this information was eventually allowed--due to the fact it had already been published and distributed so any further action would merely serve to publicize its existence, and those who wanted to use it for nefarious purposes would have already seen it. Problems with official concerns over national security have shadowed much of Shamir's work. Link


Since we're talking about spies, here, not movie stars, it's not realistic to expect to find conclusive, airtight proof all tied up in a neat package with a bow on top. The best one can hope for, armed only with a laptop and Google (Rita Katz notwithstanding) is a bundle of suggestive links, joined in a pattern that can be used to identify similar patterns and build a working hypothesis, maybe even to make accurate predictions about seemingly unrelated events or 'coincidences'. Rigorous intuition can be a big help.

So, what have we got here? We have the bulk of widely-disseminated disinfo about "Al Qaeda" originating from either IntelCenter or S.I.T.E., both private companies headed by Jews, one of them Israeli. Both have been outed as purveyors of doctored or fabricated "intelligence" clearly designed to make Americans hate those whom Israel needs them to hate.

Though most of their evidence will not bear scrutiny and their "analysis" is unadulterated bullshit, they do dovetail precisely with the propaganda emanating from Israel's official intelligence sources, and conveniently provide Israeli lies with spurious "corroboration".

For some unfathomable reason, the U.S. Department of Defense, with access to the world's best equipped and wealthiest intelligence agencies, actually pays these private con artists lots of money for their shoddy fakes. That same Department of Defense has been riddled with a network of Israeli spies who have gotten away for decades with issuing analysis that is invariably wrong, hiring and promoting other Israeli spies and shielding them from arrest and prosecution, while busily stealing classified technology and other secrets from the U.S. and giving them to Israel.

There is one obvious purpose and one strategy behind all the disinfo and incitement coming out of outfits like SITE and IntelCenter and MEMRI and all those zionist 'think-tanks' swarming over Washington, and AIPAC and the zionist "journalists" proposing that America attack Iran: to persuade America to go to war against Israel's designated enemies, to teach Americans to hate Muslims and Arabs and to want to kill them the way the Israelis do. It costs Israel nothing: they don't pay their spies, it's the target that pays.

It costs America very, very dearly on the other hand. For example, America has been spending around $1 billion every single month just in Iraq, and has lost thousands of its own soldiers to destroy a country that used to be ruled by one of their very own CIA assets and was totally under American control. With its petro-dollar revenues controlled by Saddam, Iraq was much more profitable for all kinds of American companies during the 1980s than it is today, with far fewer risks.

Saddam didn't make a move without permission from his handlers, including the green light he was so careful to obtain from the US Ambassador to Iraq before he invaded Kuwait! But neither the Iraqi people nor their CIA agent president were subservient to Israel, and it was intolerable to Israel for Iraq to continue to exist as a unified, prosperous nation with oil wealth and a strong military; that's why Israel's agents were clamoring for Iraq to be decimated from every bully pulpit they controlled. As long as these enemy agents (for that is what they are) are allowed to do their dirty work unimpeded, America will continue to launch war after war until all those on Israel's wish-list of targets are buried in rubble or until America itself is buried, whichever comes first.

It's all there, as clear as it's possible for such things to be. One is either willing to see how the pieces fit together, or one is not.
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Re: The Amazing Rita Katz and S.I.T.E.

Postby barracuda » Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:27 pm

AlicetheKurious wrote:It's all there, as clear as it's possible for such things to be. One is either willing to see how the pieces fit together, or one is not.


Well, first of all, up until this last post, the entire idea was demonstrably false, and based on a misreading of a magzine article. So you can hardly fault me for being unwilling to see how the pieces fit together in light of that information. And now, you expect me to buy this theory because one of the three computer geniuses who founded RSA Security on the basis of the invention of public key cryptography happens to be Israeli. I suppose Ron Rivest and Leonard Adleman are Mossad spies as well, then, as well as the founders and board of RSA's parent company EMC.

I don't think I'm being particularly dull about this thing, Alice. It doesn't strike me as being anywhere nearly so clear as you think it is.
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Re: The Amazing Rita Katz and S.I.T.E.

Postby wintler2 » Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:50 pm

AlicetheKurious wrote:..You think Israeli intelligence pays two-bit outfits like Rita Katz's S.I.T.E. and IntelCenter to give it the scoop about what's going on? Why on earth would the mammoth U.S. intelligence agencies need to spend good money to subcontract a housewife and some other guy with ties to a foreign country for data that is demonstrably fabricated?
..

This alone nails RK&co as very interesting people. Their backstory and 'who benefits?' looks, walks and quacks like israel.

There are others who benefit from the production of 'muslim terrorist' media, but anyone saying 'its not israel, it is X' needs to provide some basis for believing them.
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Re: The Amazing Rita Katz and S.I.T.E.

Postby barracuda » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:43 pm

wintler2 wrote:There are others who benefit from the production of 'muslim terrorist' media, but anyone saying 'its not israel, it is X' needs to provide some basis for believing them.


I don't think so. As I pointed out earlier in the thread, IntelCenter has an clear connection to the DoD and probably the CIA. It's seems to me that once that has been established, the onus of linking them to Israel in some way belongs to others. In fact it seems more prudent to ask why you happen to think that the Pentagon would have some reason - any reason - to avoid putting out stories like these under their own steam. If you can't think of any ways in which these releases benefit the Pentagon, you're not trying very hard. And if you follow some of the links, it becomes clear that SITE and IntelCenter are occasionally engaged in a sort of competition, to the point where one might actually suggest that it appears as if SITE has intercepted material originally destined to be released by IntelCenter.

You can try in some unbiased fashion to figure out who or what is really behind this bogus intelligence, or you can continue clutching at straws like RSA in order to tie Israel and Israel alone to the pattern of disinformation which keeps Osama bin Laden alive and in the public eye.
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Re: The Amazing Rita Katz and S.I.T.E.

Postby AlicetheKurious » Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:58 am

barracuda wrote:As I pointed out earlier in the thread, IntelCenter has an clear connection to the DoD and probably the CIA. It's seems to me that once that has been established, the onus of linking them to Israel in some way belongs to others. In fact it seems more prudent to ask why you happen to think that the Pentagon would have some reason - any reason - to avoid putting out stories like these under their own steam. If you can't think of any ways in which these releases benefit the Pentagon, you're not trying very hard.


Nobody's disputing that IntelCenter has a clear connection to the DoD. The first question is whether that fact alone outweighs the numerous clues that IntelCenter is working on behalf of Israeli intelligence, the Mossad. Given what we know about Israeli agents' deep infiltration into the DoD, even at the highest levels, the answer is no, it does not.

The second question is whether Melnick and Venzke's connection to the DoD necessarily means that their primary loyalty is to the DoD, rather than to Israeli objectives. Once again, the answer is no. Steven Green's article which I posted on page 1 of this thread illustrates through numerous examples that Israel's agents in the DoD have a long history of betraying their Pentagon employer to profit Israel financially, politically and militarily.

The third question is whether it is makes more sense to attribute to the Mossad or to the US Pentagon IntelCenter & SITE's use of Jewish "converts" like Youssef Khattab (aka Joseph Cohen, an Orthodox Jewish former settler) and Adam Gadahn (aka Adam Pearlman, who, at the time of his sudden "conversion" via the internet, was living with his grandfather, a committed zionist who headed his local chapter of the ADL).

Once again, we need to look at the history. Israel has repeatedly used Jews disguised as Arabs to carry out its false flag operations as far back 1946, when Menachem Begin's Irgun terrorists bombed the King David Hotel while disguised as Arabs. There's "Operation Susannah" also known as "the Lavon Affair" in 1954, in which Israel used Egyptian Jews to bomb American and British installations and throw blame on Muslims, Israel's attack on the USS Liberty in 1967, which was intended to appear as an attack by Egypt, and many more. In fact, Israel maintains a special unit in both its army and its internal security service, the Shin Bet of “mista’aravim”, Jews who are trained and deployed for false-flag operations and espionage while disguised as Arabs. Once could say that the use of Jews for this purpose is a 'signature' or a 'tell' of Israeli intelligence.

In contrast, I'm not aware that this is a typical Pentagon or US intelligence tactic at all. So for this reason alone, it makes more sense to attribute the SITE and IntelCenter fabrications to the Mossad than it does to the Pentagon.

But there are other reasons as well, equally compelling. Would the Pentagon use such clearly cheap and unconvincing videos full of stupid errors (like having "Bin Laden" write with his right hand, when US intelligence knows very well that he is left-handed, or wear a gold ring when anybody could tell them that religious Muslim men are prohibited from wearing gold, etc.), and be forced to admit that they rely on "transcripts" provided to them by SITE and IntelCenter rather than their own translations? As I asked before (repeatedly): why would the Pentagon, with its formidable intelligence apparatus, huge staff of highly-trained multi-lingual personnel and multi-billion dollar budget, continue to rely on to two-bit private contractors who have a history of producing laughable "evidence" that can't stand up to even casual scrutiny?

The only answer that makes sense is that those who make such decisions within the Pentagon have the same agenda as those who labeled very expensive advanced military hardware as "surplus" and sold it to Israel for a fraction of its worth or "lost" trillions of dollars (Dov Zakheim) or those who arranged for the likes of Perle and Wolfowitz and Feith and so many others to engage in espionage and massive theft from within the Pentagon on behalf of Israel. They also exhibit the same contempt for their American counterparts and for the American people that Israeli officials typically display. Why should they make an effort to be convincing when any old bullshit will do?

Finally, it makes no sense to pretend that the Pentagon shares Israel's burning desire to utterly destroy all the countries of the Middle East. To borrow an Arabic expression, Americans have a strong interest in keeping the cow alive so they can continue to milk it and use client regimes to protect American economic and military interests in the region and beyond.

The Israelis, on the other hand, have made no secret of their aim to "cauldronize" the entire Middle East and transform it into one big blood-soaked Somalia, divided into tiny ethnic statelets in a state of permanent war with each other. It's no accident that President Eisenhower, a former general who was keen to maximize America's military dominance, and President Kennedy, who was highly skilled at using America's cultural and economic power to shape the global environment, were both very determined to reign in Israel's ambitions and to keep its agents on a tight leash, precisely because both were aware of the danger to American interests that Israel represented if it was allowed to run amok.

It is an Israeli goal to incite widespread fear and loathing of Muslims and Arabs, to utterly demonize them and to destroy them as nations, and to isolate them even as citizens in Western countries. In fact, some influential Israeli strategists, most infamously Oded Yinon, but others before and after him, have openly stated that they perceive some version of this as a prerequisite to the very survival of the zionist project. Therefore it is no coincidence that all of the most active and influential hate-mongers happen to be fanatic zionists as well, both on the "left" and on the "right". It is in that context that the agitprop of SITE and IntelCenter makes perfect sense. It makes no sense to ignore the glaring fact that their manufactured 'evidence' is clearly designed to support all Likudnik talking points, no matter how outrageous or baseless or racist or callous or reckless, and to sic America against targets openly named by Israel's policymakers, on behalf of an agenda that serves Israel's objectives and profits only Israel, even when these wars make no sense at all from any American point of view.
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Re: The Amazing Rita Katz and S.I.T.E.

Postby barracuda » Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:03 pm

I'll try to parse some of this out to show how I'm looking at it. I think your OP about SITE has some merit. My contention is more about migrating what you've shown there over to another, or seemingly any, example of this type of inventiveness and disinformation channel without being quite able to suffer the idea that there is any reason for the US establishment to follow suit or create these types of reports on their own.

AlicetheKurious wrote:Nobody's disputing that IntelCenter has a clear connection to the DoD. The first question is whether that fact alone outweighs the numerous clues that IntelCenter is working on behalf of Israeli intelligence, the Mossad. Given what we know about Israeli agents' deep infiltration into the DoD, even at the highest levels, the answer is no, it does not.


The problem with this statement is that, as yet, I haven't seen a single clue presented here which actually implicates anyone but the Americans in the output of IntelCenter. None of the leads you've offered has panned out.

The second question is whether Melnick and Venzke's connection to the DoD necessarily means that their primary loyalty is to the DoD, rather than to Israeli objectives. Once again, the answer is no.


But it doesn't in anyway necessarily demonstrate that their loyalty is to anyone other than the US, either, regardless of the findings of Green's article, unless, of course, one is willing to follow the line of thought in which any Jewish member of the military or government is pretty much an agent of Mossad unless definitively proven otherwise.

The third question is whether it is makes more sense to attribute to the Mossad or to the US Pentagon IntelCenter & SITE's use of Jewish "converts" like Youssef Khattab (aka Joseph Cohen, an Orthodox Jewish former settler) and Adam Gadahn (aka Adam Pearlman, who, at the time of his sudden "conversion" via the internet, was living with his grandfather, a committed zionist who headed his local chapter of the ADL).


I must have missed the part where IntelCenter has been shown to be using Jewish converts.
Once again, we need to look at the history. Israel has repeatedly used Jews disguised as Arabs to carry out its false flag operations as far back 1946, when Menachem Begin's Irgun terrorists bombed the King David Hotel while disguised as Arabs. There's "Operation Susannah" also known as "the Lavon Affair" in 1954, in which Israel used Egyptian Jews to bomb American and British installations and throw blame on Muslims, Israel's attack on the USS Liberty in 1967, which was intended to appear as an attack by Egypt, and many more. In fact, Israel maintains a special unit in both its army and its internal security service, the Shin Bet of “mista’aravim”, Jews who are trained and deployed for false-flag operations and espionage while disguised as Arabs. Once could say that the use of Jews for this purpose is a 'signature' or a 'tell' of Israeli intelligence.
In contrast, I'm not aware that this is a typical Pentagon or US intelligence tactic at all. So for this reason alone, it makes more sense to attribute the SITE and IntelCenter fabrications to the Mossad than it does to the Pentagon.


Oh I wouldn't put it past the Americans to do these kinds of things, either.

But there are other reasons as well, equally compelling. Would the Pentagon use such clearly cheap and unconvincing videos full of stupid errors (like having "Bin Laden" write with his right hand, when US intelligence knows very well that he is left-handed, or wear a gold ring when anybody could tell them that religious Muslim men are prohibited from wearing gold, etc.), and be forced to admit that they rely on "transcripts" provided to them by SITE and IntelCenter rather than their own translations? As I asked before (repeatedly): why would the Pentagon, with its formidable intelligence apparatus, huge staff of highly-trained multi-lingual personnel and multi-billion dollar budget, continue to rely on to two-bit private contractors who have a history of producing laughable "evidence" that can't stand up to even casual scrutiny?


They do it all the time. That the DoD and the military-industrial-political complex lives and breathes pure disdain for the level of intelligence of the American people is no big secret here, if you're paying attention. And rightfully so.

It is an Israeli goal to incite widespread fear and loathing of Muslims and Arabs, to utterly demonize them and to destroy them as nations, and to isolate them even as citizens in Western countries. In fact, some influential Israeli strategists, most infamously Oded Yinon, but others before and after him, have openly stated that they perceive some version of this as a prerequisite to the very survival of the zionist project. Therefore it is no coincidence that all of the most active and influential hate-mongers happen to be fanatic zionists as well, both on the "left" and on the "right". It is in that context that the agitprop of SITE and IntelCenter makes perfect sense. It makes no sense to ignore the glaring fact that their manufactured 'evidence' is clearly designed to support all Likudnik talking points, no matter how outrageous or baseless or racist or callous or reckless, and to sic America against targets openly named by Israel's policymakers, on behalf of an agenda that serves Israel's objectives and profits only Israel, even when these wars make no sense at all from any American point of view.


Is there anyone reading this thread that agrees with this enlarged area of text above? If so, please step forward and make your case. I can think of any number of reasons these wars not only make complete sense from an American point of view, but really are so completely typical of US strategic goals dating from before the cold war and beyond that I honestly can't figure out exactly why you'd make such a statement.
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Re: The Amazing Rita Katz and S.I.T.E.

Postby AlicetheKurious » Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:30 pm

barracuda wrote:...I haven't seen a single clue presented here which actually implicates anyone but the Americans in the output of IntelCenter. None of the leads you've offered has panned out.


"The output of IntelCenter" itself strongly implicates Israel by the content and purpose of its fabrications, which precisely reflect the content and purpose of the disinformation that Israeli state propaganda has been disseminating for decades. This is why Israel has a long history of covertly sponsoring extreme fundamentalist fringe groups in the Arab world, including the earliest version of Hamas, back when nobody had heard of them and fewer cared. The Israelis had zero success in making Hamas into a serious rival to the PLO. It was only much later, when Hamas' ranks were swelled with a huge influx of Fateh members disgusted with Oslo and Fateh's betrayal of Palestinian rights, that the organization became a resistance group to be reckoned with, but by then, Hamas was no longer Israel's tool.

So the Israelis tried something else: recruiting Palestinian kids into "al Qaeda": Ibrahim, the Shin Bet Wants You to Join Qaida

That didn't work either, so the Israelis tried to use supposedly "Arab" Israeli Mossad agents claiming to be "US Intelligence" to recruit Muslim Americans. That was a bust, as well, presumably because they couldn't threaten to deny vital surgery or torture their "recruits" into compliance like the Muslims back home. (One thing I can't figure out is why the Mossad would use Arabs pretending to be American Intelligence to recruit Muslims in the U.S.)

Be that as it may, the well-worn method that Israel has consistently relied on in times of need is to use Jews disguised as Arabs or Muslims to carry out false-flag attacks, or in the case of IntelCenter and SITE, to talk trash designed to provoke fear and loathing against Israel's own victims. Obviously there are a lot more Jews in Israel and elsewhere who are eager to work with the Mossad than Muslims or Arabs, plus they are probably willing to do or say whatever the Mossad tells them to.

So in sum, as I've outlined in my previous post, the clue you insist on pretending doesn't exist is the very combination of signature Mossad false-flag tactics used to corroborate a letter-perfect Israeli propaganda version of reality.

As for none of the leads I've offered "panning out", I made one erroneous assertion out of probably dozens in this thread. Does that count as "none"?

But it doesn't in anyway necessarily demonstrate that their loyalty is to anyone other than the US, either, regardless of the findings of Green's article, unless, of course, one is willing to follow the line of thought in which any Jewish member of the military or government is pretty much an agent of Mossad unless definitively proven otherwise.


I think you need to re-read my previous post. You're implying that the only argument I presented is that Venzke, Melnick and Katz are Jewish. If that's all you registered, you need to see a doctor about that blind spot.

I must have missed the part where IntelCenter has been shown to be using Jewish converts.


Yes, you must have.

    Image

    Image

    American Al Qaeda Spokesman Urges Attacks in U.S.

    AP/IntelCenter This image from video released by IntelCenter Sunday, March 7, 2010, shows Adam Gadahn, featured in a video posted Sunday, coincidentally the day that his arrest by Pakistani Intelligence Officers in the southern city of Karachi was announced. [It wasn't "Gadahn"/Pearlman who was arrested but some poor wretch who had a similar name to Gadahn's false one. Gadahn will never be captured; he almost certainly lives in Herzliya -- Alice]

    In the video the 31-year-old American al-Qaida spokesman called for Muslim violence, praising the U.S. Army major charged with killing 13 people in Fort Hood, Texas, as a role model for other Muslims. ... Link



Lately I've noticed something odd: references to SITE and IntelCenter are being scrubbed from some mainstream news stories. The Google search page will still have the words, "in this video, released by IntelCenter...", or "in this video, released by the SITE Institute..." but if you open the story, all you see is, "in this video..."



First, Israeli intelligence has been consistently and frequently engaging in this tactic, like IntelCenter and SITE using Jews, since before the state was declared. Second:

Since the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, U.S. intelligence officials have visited Tel Aviv to meet with their counterparts from Mossad, Israel's version of the CIA, and Shabak (or Shin Bet), the Israeli counterintelligence and anti-terrorism agency, as well as the Aman, Israel's military intelligence service, according to Israeli intelligence and diplomatic sources who requested anonymity in order to speak candidly with ICIJ. In addition to exchanging information on terrorist organizations with their Israeli hosts, the visitors are reported to have viewed presentations by special forces units of the Israeli Defense Forces and the Israeli National Police describing methods and equipment employed by Israel in anti-terrorism operations.
...
When the United States invaded Iraq and overthrew Saddam Hussein's regime in 2003, the close U.S.-Israeli relationship became even more pronounced.

U.S. forces soon found themselves in a bloody, protracted struggle against non-uniformed Iraqi insurgents in Iraqi cities and villages, a conflict that bears eerie parallels to Israel's battles with Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and Gaza.

American forces knew where to turn for advice.

According to American and British newspapers, U.S. soldiers journeyed to Israel to train in a mockup of an Arab town that the Israeli army has used to prepare for urban warfare in the occupied territories, and the Israeli Defense Forces sent urban warfare specialists to Fort Bragg in North Carolina to help train U.S. special forces for counterinsurgency operations.

Not surprisingly, U.S. forces in Iraq began using an array of tactics previously employed by the Israelis in the occupied territories. Link



barracuda wrote:They do it all the time.


...Karl Rove’s only full-time foreign-policy advisor is Michael Ledeen, a rabid anti-Arab, pro-Israel activist. The FBI is investigating Ledeen for procuring forged documents (shown here) on nonexistent WMD, which George Bush used to justify his war on Iraq. When Joseph Wilson exposed the farce, Rove helped "out" Wilson’s CIA wife. Did Ledeen procure the documents for Rove, and how might he have done that? The story includes multinational stool pigeon Rocco Martino, Italian spy Francesco Pazienza, wanted CIA spy Robert Seldon Lady, and Pentagon analyst Larry Franklin, who’s under charges of giving US secrets to Israel.

Karl Rove’s foreign-policy advisor, Michael Ledeen, proclaimed "the rightness of the fascist cause" in 1972. In 1984 he got George Bush Sr to appoint Iranian arms merchant and Iranian/Israeli double-agent Manucher Ghorbanifar as a middleman in the scandalous Iran-Contra affair. Ledeen has been a fixture in Washington and Israel ever since, advocating a modern version of the Crusades against Islamic nations. ...Link


Niger Yellowcake and The Man Who Forged Too Much
by Pen
Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 04:56:03 AM PST


They say all roads lead to Rome. Well, this one certainly does. It's a road that starts in Paris, at the door of Iranian arms dealer and Mossad double agent Manucher Ghorbanifar, a man known to the CIA as an "intelligence fabricator". It's a road that runs through Niger uranium mines, past a Genoan fascist organization operating as a parallel Italian intelligence network with ties to Rocco Martino, and down the streets of Milan, where a CIA operative, now considered a fugitive at large by Italian authorities, once operated.

Ultimately, however, it is a road that does not end in Rome. It runs past that ancient icon of Imperial corruption and leads us to Washington D.C., past a Federal Investigation into Israeli espionage and right up to the steps of the White House and Dick Cheney's Office of Special Plans.

All signs along this road point to the answer to the question: Who forged the Niger Uranium Documents?

We find ourselves beginning our journey in Paris with Manucher Ghorbanifar.

Back in 1984, Michael Ledeen put forward the idea of using Manucher Ghorbanifar to make illegal arms sales to Iran. The CIA's Deputy Director for Operations, Clair George, deemed Ghorbanifar totally unreliable. He felt that Ghorbanifar, a MOSSAD double agent, had Israel's security as his only priority. But George Bush Sr., having dealt with Ghorbanifar in Paris prior to the infamous "October Surprise" that got Ronald Reagan elected, agreed with Ledeen and so Ghorbanifar became the middleman in what became known as the Iran-Contra affair. In fact, Oliver North testified that the diversion of funds to the Contras was proposed to him by Ghorbanifar during a meeting in January 1986. Link


barracuda wrote:I can think of any number of reasons these wars not only make complete sense from an American point of view, but really are so completely typical of US strategic goals dating from before the cold war and beyond that I honestly can't figure out exactly why you'd make such a statement.


Instead of "thinking" of all those reasons, you might try posting them (a simple list will do to begin with) so they can be given the ol' peer review.
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Re: The Amazing Rita Katz and S.I.T.E.

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:07 pm

barracuda wrote:I can think of any number of reasons these wars not only make complete sense from an American point of view, but really are so completely typical of US strategic goals dating from before the cold war and beyond that I honestly can't figure out exactly why you'd make such a statement.


Forget it. With Alice the forced conclusion will always be that there is only one true American interest, and that it is against Israel, and that anyone who sees any "American" interest in supporting Israel only does so because they are, in fact, an agent or a dupe of Israel. In fact, the Alicean view is that pretty much whatever the USG does is entirely the will of the essentially foreign cabal who effected a hostile takeover ages ago, and who only ever act for Israel and against "America."

See, there are people who understand that, like the flag itself, the phrase "American interests" is an abstraction subject to variable definition, a form of verbal camouflage and a trigger-word meant to prompt blind obedience. The people who understand that generally also understand that the reigning definitions of "American interests" are those handed down by agencies of the USG, US corporations and corporate media, and academic elites at the US think tanks. These same people also understand that the reigning definitions of "American interests" tend to be contrary to the real interests of most actual US citizens. But also that these remain "American" interests (even if they conflict with other "American" interests), in the sense that they are upheld by US-based groups who believe they act to their own benefit. (Whether or not they're stupid in assessing their own benefit, as when they launched the Iraq war, is yet another matter; they believe it to be so, lay it out in their statements, and act accordingly.)

If you could somehow isolate the group of people who understand the above, you would probably find a) that they are a minority, b) that someone as smart as Alice is sure to be among them, and c) that the majority among them are skeptical of anything the USG says and probably already oppose US support for Israel.

Meanwhile those who fall for the idea of a single "American interest" as defined by the reigning narratives of state and corporation are likelier to favor US support for Israel. Alice isn't talking to you, and will never respond to your desire for mere empirical accuracy, because that's not her strategy. She will always boil it down to the same talking point: US support for Israel is always against "American interests" and is always exclusively the product of Israeli infiltration.

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Re: The Amazing Rita Katz and S.I.T.E.

Postby AlicetheKurious » Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:25 pm

...After Comedy Central aired an episode of the satirical cartoon South Park in April that depicted the prophet in a bear costume, its creators received veiled death threats from a New York-based group called Revolution Muslim. The threats were issued on the group’s Web site by Zachary Adam Chesser, who now goes by the name Abu Talhah al-Amrikee.

Within days of the posting on the obscure Web site, Joshua Rhett Miller of FoxNews.com did a story on it, in which he interviewed Chesser. “They’re going to be basically on a list in the back of the minds of a large number of Muslims,” the recent convert told Fox. “It’s just the reality.”

A few days later, Miller did a profile of Chesser, in which he described the 20-year-old as “the boy next door” with a “dark side.” Quoting an anonymous high school classmate, Miller informed Fox readers that Chesser – prior to his career as a humorless fundamentalist Muslim – was a “loner … who frequently drew pictures of Satanic figures in his notebooks.”

The hype over South Park was not the first time, however, that Rupert Murdoch’s stridently pro-Israel media had publicized Revolution Muslim’s provocations.

On March 26, 2008, FoxNews.com trumpeted the group’s puerile puppet show mocking the 2002 beheading of a Jewish American journalist in Pakistan. “I could care less about Daniel Pearl,” group founder Yousef al-Khattab said in an interview with Fox. “I’m happy to see that he’s gone.”


In an Oct. 13, 2009, piece, Joshua Rhett Miller drew attention to a post by al-Khattab which asked Allah to murder the Jews and urged Muslims to “throw liquid drain cleaner in their faces.” In yet another interview with Miller, al-Khattab claimed that these outlandish statements reflected the “prayer of every true Muslim.”

On Nov. 8, 2009, Fox reported on Revolution Muslim’s tribute to Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, the U.S. Army psychiatrist charged with the murder of 13 people at Fort Hood, Texas. This time it was another one of Murdoch’s titles, the New York Post, which interviewed al-Khattab after he wrote, “An officer and a gentleman was injured while partaking in a pre-emptive attack. Get well soon Major Nidal. We love you.”

In one of his articles, Joshua Rhett Miller mentioned, almost in passing, that the provocative al-Khattab is “an American-born Jew formerly known as Joseph Cohen who converted to Islam after attending an Orthodox rabbinical school.” An insignificant detail?

The implausible story of Cohen’s implausible conversion was first told, it seems, in a most interesting venue: Israel’s leading right-wing English newspaper. Cohen, who moved with his wife and family from Brooklyn to Israel in 1998, was one of three people interviewed for a Nov. 25, 2005, Jerusalem Post feature on the spread of Islam among Israeli immigrants titled, perhaps ironically, “True Believers.”

While living in Netivot – the only town in Israel without a public high school due to the extreme influence there of the ultra-Orthodox Haredim – Cohen said he became disillusioned with Israeli secularism. “At that time I met this person on the Internet, a sheikh from UAE [United Arab Emirates], whom I met later on, and we started chatting and talking on the ’net,” Cohen told the Jerusalem Post. After two years of “theological dialogue” in a Jewish chatroom with the persuasive sheikh, Cohen was transformed from being a supporter of Shas – the ultra-racist political party of Mizrahi Haredi Jews – to a “sudden admirer of al-Qaeda and Hamas.”


Seemingly unable to interest “weak” Palestinian Muslims in his newly acquired brand of “pure” Islam, Cohen returned to New York to launch his online jihad for “the creation of an Islamic caliphate which will rule the world.”

Having not so long ago believed that Jews had a God-given right to Palestine, Cohen is now saying that Muslims should rule the world. The zeal of the converted? Perhaps.

But it also conveniently confirms the Islamophobic propaganda of the likes of Daniel Pipes who try to scare Americans into fighting Israel’s wars with dire warnings that the Muslims are coming. Link


The media hyped up the threats by Revolution Muslim as though they represented anything other than a Jewish former Israeli settler and another Jewish American guy who claimed to be "converts" to Islam and then proceeded to do everything possible to smear Muslims and Islam. Jon Stewart really went to town on this stupid psyop and found no reason to mention either of Revolution Muslim's two members and their noteworthy background. Isn't that odd? You'd think Jon Stewart would jump at such a potential comedic goldmine. Yet he didn't.
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