The Empty Hype of Political "Neuromarketing"

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The Empty Hype of Political "Neuromarketing"

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:09 am

Source: http://www.fastcompany.com/1699985/poli ... -win-votes

The article itself is double plus ungood, aesthetically, but it grabbed my attention because of the face in the thumbnail photo: it was good old Newt Gingrich.

Image

http://www.skilluminati.com/research/en ... l_control/

Much like Atwater and Rove, his approach worked from the beginning and they thrive on changes in technology and technique. In the article, they provided a 2:22 political spot of his as an example of a neuro-marketing tested ad.

Here's the thing about neuro-marketing: it sounds menacing and sophisticated. It's actually a horseshit buzzword. It's just ad testing + using fMRI and EEG. That definitely needed it's own term, right? Ad testing has been conducted scientifically for many decades now, and politics has been on the cutting edge of marketing since the 60s at least. I wrote about this recently on Skilluminati.

http://www.skilluminati.com/research/en ... the_ghost/

Some highlights from the Fast Company article:

Political neuromarketing appears to be better developed and applied outside the U.S., with South America and Asia serving as testing grounds for consultants. A number of neuromarketing experts confirmed that fMRI techniques were employed by campaigns in Brazil’s 2010 national general election, and that it led to tweaked ads -- and ballot box successes in early October.

“I’ve met several neuroscientists who have worked with various politicians in South America on crafting political campaigns and campaign messages," says neuromarketing guru Martin Lindstrom, author of the book Buyology. "Their work has been very hush.”


I'm sharing this material here because personally my inclination is to discard this as bullshit. This whole article reads like ad copy for neuromarketing as a field. Clearly, the primary goal of neuromarketing is selling itself as the hot new necessary trend. The text is full of odd contradictions and gaps, and the rhetoric in the quotes is like vintage cheerleading for Qualitative Finance nerds, especially the Long Term Capital Management PR articles everyone was running. It reminds me of men like Clotaire Rapaille, whose greatest marketing success is himself and his persona.

http://www.brainsturbator.com/articles/ ... alute_you/

From a pragmatic perspective, I give no fucks about neuromarketing techniques because they're totally superfluous. I can measure so many parts of my marketing communications already, what difference will it make if I can compare fMRI scans? That shit doesn't matter, but results do, and results are easily measured in terms of sales, impressions, and other metrics that have existed...well, longer than "marketing" was a noun, probably. Honestly, I don't think Karl Rove is very interested in this stuff either, beyond the nerd-level novelty...it's neat for sure, but it's not informing his strategies nearly as much as aggregate consumer reports and the same maps full of colored pins and post-its that he's always been using.

Some un-intentional hilarity from the Fast Company article:

We are in no danger of being brain-washed by super-effective, neuromarketing-based political propaganda!" says Martha Farah, Professor of Psychology at the University of Pennsylvania and Director of the Center for Neuroscience and Society.

...because we've already taken care of that years ago!...

“It can be good for all constituents … if done ethically," adds Renvoise. "To the degree that the information is made available to the persuaded, the voters, they could become aware of their own biased perception of what draws them to a particular politician."


Finally, a great point from the comments:

Neuromarketing has been used to measure the difference between what people say and what their brain register for a number of years. PR, the actual science of engineering a perception through repetition, association and crafted messaging is more powerful than the actual research of (neuromarketing) and the measurements it reveals. If you want to see it in action go back to 2 years ago when Obama was elected. Take a look at every ad, cover magazine and media message that came out and you will possibly see why he was elected. To imply however that one political party is using it and the other isn't is pretty ridiculous... Further research will reveal that the PR and Ad agencies who helped the Democratic candidates are the best in our country... I don't think years of professional expertise and the science of neuromarketing escaped them.


I'll leave you with the motto my mentor left me with...

Measure, Model, Calculate, Control.
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Re: The Empty Hype of Political "Neuromarketing"

Postby brainpanhandler » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:10 pm

From a pragmatic perspective, I give no fucks about neuromarketing techniques because they're totally superfluous. I can measure so many parts of my marketing communications already, what difference will it make if I can compare fMRI scans? That shit doesn't matter, but results do, and results are easily measured in terms of sales, impressions, and other metrics that have existed...well, longer than "marketing" was a noun, probably.


You're getting old man. You sound like that grizzled veteran reporter that was using a manual typrewriter up until 1998 because he didn't see any reason to switch to one of them fancy typrewriter tv's. I more or less agree with your assessment of the article and it's likely intent. Empty hype for the most part. But it seems to me that if this sort of data is being produced and marketed and most imprtantly actually purchased then clearly there is some utility based on the idea that whoever is writing the check is not going to be willing to pay for empty hype and they're probably not stupid. I mean it's conceivable that with this method of testing messages can be tested more efficiently and quickly, which seems to me could be a big asset in a political campaign. Just speculating.

Honestly, I don't think Karl Rove is very interested in this stuff either, beyond the nerd-level novelty...it's neat for sure, but it's not informing his strategies nearly as much as aggregate consumer reports and the same maps full of colored pins and post-its that he's always been using.


I'd like to see that fork tongued viper put into the No Lie MRI and interrogated until his pudgy little ears bled.

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Re: The Empty Hype of Political "Neuromarketing"

Postby justdrew » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:21 pm

November 14, 2010, 4:32 pm
This Is Your Brain on Metaphors
By ROBERT SAPOLSKY

Despite rumors to the contrary, there are many ways in which the human brain isn’t all that fancy. Let’s compare it to the nervous system of a fruit fly. Both are made up of cells, of course, with neurons playing particularly important roles. Now one might expect that a neuron from a human will differ dramatically from one from a fly. Maybe the human’s will have especially ornate ways of communicating with other neurons, making use of unique “neurotransmitter” messengers. Maybe compared to the lowly fly neuron, human neurons are bigger, more complex, in some way can run faster and jump higher.

But no. Look at neurons from the two species under a microscope and they look the same. They have the same electrical properties, many of the same neurotransmitters, the same protein channels that allow ions to flow in and out, as well as a remarkably high number of genes in common. Neurons are the same basic building blocks in both species.

So where’s the difference? It’s numbers — humans have roughly one million neurons for each one in a fly. And out of a human’s 100 billion neurons emerge some pretty remarkable things. With enough quantity, you generate quality.
Erin Schell

Neuroscientists understand the structural bases of some of these qualities. Take language, that uniquely human behavior. Underlining it are structures unique to the human brain — regions like “Broca’s area,” which specializes in language production. Then there’s the brain’s “extrapyramidal system,” which is involved in fine motor control. The complexity of the human version allows us to do something that, say, a polar bear, could never accomplish — sufficiently independent movement of digits to play a trill on the piano, for instance. Particularly striking is the human frontal cortex. While occurring in all mammals, the human version is proportionately bigger and denser in its wiring. And what is the frontal cortex good for? Emotional regulation, gratification postponement, executive decision-making, long-term planning. We study hard in high school to get admitted to a top college to get into grad school to get a good job to get into the nursing home of our choice. Gophers don’t do that.

There’s another domain of unique human skills, and neuroscientists are learning a bit about how the brain pulls it off.

Consider the following from J. Ruth Gendler’s wonderful “The Book of Qualities,” a collection of “character sketches” of different qualities, emotions and attributes:

Anxiety is secretive. He does not trust anyone, not even his friends, Worry, Terror, Doubt and Panic … He likes to visit me late at night when I am alone and exhausted. I have never slept with him, but he kissed me on the forehead once, and I had a headache for two years …

Or:

Compassion speaks with a slight accent. She was a vulnerable child, miserable in school, cold, shy … In ninth grade she was befriended by Courage. Courage lent Compassion bright sweaters, explained the slang, showed her how to play volleyball.

What is Gendler going on about? We know, and feel pleasure triggered by her unlikely juxtapositions. Despair has stopped listening to music. Anger sharpens kitchen knives at the local supermarket. Beauty wears a gold shawl and sells seven kinds of honey at the flea market. Longing studies archeology.

Symbols, metaphors, analogies, parables, synecdoche, figures of speech: we understand them. We understand that a captain wants more than just hands when he orders all of them on deck. We understand that Kafka’s “Metamorphosis” isn’t really about a cockroach. If we are of a certain theological ilk, we see bread and wine intertwined with body and blood. We grasp that the right piece of cloth can represent a nation and its values, and that setting fire to such a flag is a highly charged act. We can learn that a certain combination of sounds put together by Tchaikovsky represents Napoleon getting his butt kicked just outside Moscow. And that the name “Napoleon,” in this case, represents thousands and thousands of soldiers dying cold and hungry, far from home.

And we even understand that June isn’t literally busting out all over. It would seem that doing this would be hard enough to cause a brainstorm. So where did this facility with symbolism come from? It strikes me that the human brain has evolved a necessary shortcut for doing so, and with some major implications.

Consider an animal (including a human) that has started eating some rotten, fetid, disgusting food. As a result, neurons in an area of the brain called the insula will activate. Gustatory disgust. Smell the same awful food, and the insula activates as well. Think about what might count as a disgusting food (say, taking a bite out of a struggling cockroach). Same thing.

Now read in the newspaper about a saintly old widow who had her home foreclosed by a sleazy mortgage company, her medical insurance canceled on flimsy grounds, and got a lousy, exploitative offer at the pawn shop where she tried to hock her kidney dialysis machine. You sit there thinking, those bastards, those people are scum, they’re worse than maggots, they make me want to puke … and your insula activates. Think about something shameful and rotten that you once did … same thing. Not only does the insula “do” sensory disgust; it does moral disgust as well. Because the two are so viscerally similar. When we evolved the capacity to be disgusted by moral failures, we didn’t evolve a new brain region to handle it. Instead, the insula expanded its portfolio.

Or consider pain. Somebody pokes your big left toe with a pin. Spinal reflexes cause you to instantly jerk your foot back just as they would in, say, a frog. Evolutionarily ancient regions activate in the brain as well, telling you about things like the intensity of the pain, or whether it’s a sharp localized pain or a diffuse burning one. But then there’s a fancier, more recently evolved brain region in the frontal cortex called the anterior cingulate that’s involved in the subjective, evaluative response to the pain. A piranha has just bitten you? That’s a disaster. The shoes you bought are a size too small? Well, not as much of a disaster.

Now instead, watch your beloved being poked with the pin. And your anterior cingulate will activate, as if it were you in pain. There’s a neurotransmitter called Substance P that is involved in the nuts and bolts circuitry of pain perception. Administer a drug that blocks the actions of Substance P to people who are clinically depressed, and they often feel better, feel less of the world’s agonies. When humans evolved the ability to be wrenched with feeling the pain of others, where was it going to process it? It got crammed into the anterior cingulate. And thus it “does” both physical and psychic pain.

Another truly interesting domain in which the brain confuses the literal and metaphorical is cleanliness. In a remarkable study, Chen-Bo Zhong of the University of Toronto and Katie Liljenquist of Northwestern University demonstrated how the brain has trouble distinguishing between being a dirty scoundrel and being in need of a bath. Volunteers were asked to recall either a moral or immoral act in their past. Afterward, as a token of appreciation, Zhong and Liljenquist offered the volunteers a choice between the gift of a pencil or of a package of antiseptic wipes. And the folks who had just wallowed in their ethical failures were more likely to go for the wipes. In the next study, volunteers were told to recall an immoral act of theirs. Afterward, subjects either did or did not have the opportunity to clean their hands. Those who were able to wash were less likely to respond to a request for help (that the experimenters had set up) that came shortly afterward. Apparently, Lady Macbeth and Pontius Pilate weren’t the only ones to metaphorically absolve their sins by washing their hands.

This potential to manipulate behavior by exploiting the brain’s literal-metaphorical confusions about hygiene and health is also shown in a study by Mark Landau and Daniel Sullivan of the University of Kansas and Jeff Greenberg of the University of Arizona. Subjects either did or didn’t read an article about the health risks of airborne bacteria. All then read a history article that used imagery of a nation as a living organism with statements like, “Following the Civil War, the United States underwent a growth spurt.” Those who read about scary bacteria before thinking about the U.S. as an organism were then more likely to express negative views about immigration.

Another example of how the brain links the literal and the metaphorical comes from a study by Lawrence Williams of the University of Colorado and John Bargh of Yale. Volunteers would meet one of the experimenters, believing that they would be starting the experiment shortly. In reality, the experiment began when the experimenter, seemingly struggling with an armful of folders, asks the volunteer to briefly hold their coffee. As the key experimental manipulation, the coffee was either hot or iced. Subjects then read a description of some individual, and those who had held the warmer cup tended to rate the individual as having a warmer personality, with no change in ratings of other attributes.

Another brilliant study by Bargh and colleagues concerned haptic sensations (I had to look the word up — haptic: related to the sense of touch). Volunteers were asked to evaluate the resumes of supposed job applicants where, as the critical variable, the resume was attached to a clipboard of one of two different weights. Subjects who evaluated the candidate while holding the heavier clipboard tended to judge candidates to be more serious, with the weight of the clipboard having no effect on how congenial the applicant was judged. After all, we say things like “weighty matter” or “gravity of a situation.”

What are we to make of the brain processing literal and metaphorical versions of a concept in the same brain region? Or that our neural circuitry doesn’t cleanly differentiate between the real and the symbolic? What are the consequences of the fact that evolution is a tinkerer and not an inventor, and has duct-taped metaphors and symbols to whichever pre-existing brain areas provided the closest fit?

Jonathan Haidt, of the University of Virginia, has shown how viscera and emotion often drive our decisionmaking, with conscious cognition mopping up afterward, trying to come up with rationalizations for that gut decision. The viscera that can influence moral decisionmaking and the brain’s confusion about the literalness of symbols can have enormous consequences. Part of the emotional contagion of the genocide of Tutsis in Rwanda arose from the fact that when militant Hutu propagandists called for the eradication of the Tutsi, they iconically referred to them as “cockroaches.” Get someone to the point where his insula activates at the mention of an entire people, and he’s primed to join the bloodletting.

But if the brain confusing reality and literalness with metaphor and symbol can have adverse consequences, the opposite can occur as well. At one juncture just before the birth of a free South Africa, Nelson Mandela entered secret negotiations with an Afrikaans general with death squad blood all over his hands, a man critical to the peace process because he led a large, well-armed Afrikaans resistance group. They met in Mandela’s house, the general anticipating tense negotiations across a conference table. Instead, Mandela led him to the warm, homey living room, sat beside him on a comfy couch, and spoke to him in Afrikaans. And the resistance melted away.

This neural confusion about the literal versus the metaphorical gives symbols enormous power, including the power to make peace. The political scientist and game theorist Robert Axelrod of the University of Michigan has emphasized this point in thinking about conflict resolution. For example, in a world of sheer rationality where the brain didn’t confuse reality with symbols, bringing peace to Israel and Palestine would revolve around things like water rights, placement of borders, and the extent of militarization allowed to Palestinian police. Instead, argues Axelrod, “mutual symbolic concessions” of no material benefit will ultimately make all the difference. He quotes a Hamas leader who says that for the process of peace to go forward, Israel must apologize for the forced Palestinians exile in 1948. And he quotes a senior Israeli official saying that for progress to be made, Palestinians need to first acknowledge Israel’s right to exist and to get their anti-Semitic garbage out of their textbooks.

Hope for true peace in the Middle East didn’t come with the news of a trade agreement being signed. It was when President Hosni Mubarak of Egypt and King Hussein of Jordan attended the funeral of the murdered Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin. That same hope came to the Northern Irish, not when ex-Unionist demagogues and ex-I.R.A. gunmen served in a government together, but when those officials publicly commiserated about each other’s family misfortunes, or exchanged anniversary gifts. And famously, for South Africans, it came not with successful negotiations about land reapportionment, but when black South Africa embraced rugby and Afrikaans rugby jocks sang the A.N.C. national anthem.

Nelson Mandela was wrong when he advised, “Don’t talk to their minds; talk to their hearts.” He meant talk to their insulas and cingulate cortices and all those other confused brain regions, because that confusion could help make for a better world.

(Robert Sapolsky’s essay is the subject of this week’s forum discussion among the humanists and scientists at On the Human, a project of the National Humanities Center.)

Robert Sapolsky is John A. and Cynthia Fry Gunn Professor of Biology, Neurology and Neurosurgery at Stanford University, and is a research associate at the Institute of Primate Research, National Museums of Kenya. He writes frequently on issues related to biology and behavior. His books include “Why Zebras Don’t Get Ulcers,” “A Primate’s Memoir,” and “Monkeyluv.”
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Re: The Empty Hype of Political "Neuromarketing"

Postby Laodicean » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:28 pm

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Re: The Empty Hype of Political "Neuromarketing"

Postby Montag » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:52 pm

Laodicean wrote:Image


Paris Hilton, I think, was part of that campaign. As I recall she didn't vote. WTF? Why's she still with us???
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Re: The Empty Hype of Political "Neuromarketing"

Postby barracuda » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:57 pm

I want her to live.

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Re: The Empty Hype of Political "Neuromarketing"

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:07 am

No, it is not "empty hype."

The three generations of military psyops culture that turned the US into a fascist dictatorship has exploited the social sciences and neurosciences deployed as marketing to enact military doctrines of social control since WWII.

The latest medical devices that prove and improve this strategy are mere tightening of the noose that has been on the masses for a hundred years. "Like a duck in a noose."
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Re: The Empty Hype of Political "Neuromarketing"

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:46 am

Let me explain, Hugh. (My position, that is...not reality or anything.) I agree that everything you're discussing is real, and that's exactly why I'm saying this current round of PR-level press coverage of "Neuromarketing" is empty hype. It's distorting what it's really about, and most of all it's making the experimental technique sound like the most important and cutting edge persuasion technology available.

The most important and cutting edge persuasion technology hasn't changed a lot, as you illustrate -- word and image and word and image, from here to eternity. I'm not mocking you with that bitterness, I'm mocking us.

BPH, I appreciate the ego check. I'll try to be less cynicalicious in the future!
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Re: The Empty Hype of Political "Neuromarketing"

Postby Iamwhomiam » Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:54 am

Well, this posting, Mr. WRex, is quasi-synchronistic.

Tonight I attended a smoke & mirrors event rife with mis- or false information presented by one of the world's leading sources of air pollution, Covanta Energy.

Covanta builds and operates waste incinerators.

The power point presentation utilized bold, blue bar graphs relating 'rosy' information, tidbits they would like you to remember, all beneficial and not all true, some blatently false, whereas for the 'bad press' stuff, levels of dangerous pollutants emitted by their incinerators were displayed as a grid of dozens of confused numbers.

My point is the use of dual graphs, different graphic representations were used to induce remembering certain statistics, some utterly false, while the us of the other "graph", a jumble of related and unrelated numbers that were damaging to their interests, were displayed in such a way as to be instantly forgettable; they were meant to be forgotten.

Oh, and shouldn't that be Measure, Calculate, Model, Control?

How can you develop a mathematical model without first doing the calculations necessary to design the model and to assure its validity?

But I do agree with you premise, the 'selling' of the 'newest' in-thing to bend your will to theirs, to win you over, Neuromarketing, is not merely decades old but is an ancient art. Now, though, through testing, they can see which parts of the brain are stimulated by chosen stimuli. Watch the endorphin levels too, and when they spike, you know you've got a winner.

But if this technology can be used as an effective lie detector, why are we waterboarding people? Solely to horrify and humiliate to establish with an understanding of who's totally in charge of their ability to live another moment more?

Please don't ever stop being so cynicalicous! That's when you create your most interesting posts.
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Re: The Empty Hype of Political "Neuromarketing"

Postby 82_28 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:48 am

This is a very good thread.

What they want is the perception of everybody to go a certain direction. That perception is in the direction they have all chosen. It's not real, as Mr. Rex has plainly stated and with which I agree. This is technocracy/fascism 2.0 out in the wild and in plain sight. The people who pay the "imagineers" are completely out of the loop, they're just investors. But there is a high concentration of people who just do cruel things to do them and are extremely cunning and they our in our midst. These fucking idiots who I could do empathic circles around are the ones coming up with the ideas.

Anymore, I just think that I've been put here just to notice things and not ever do anything. I don't mean that necessarily, but we need to reach these people on their level.

Ever been to NYC?

I went a couple years ago and the amount of cravenness is astonishing. But it is a matter of course, it's the way you live. Everybody had motherfucking FANTASY STOCK PORTFOLIOS. Wut, huh? Yeah. I don't believe this shit "all" has to crash, but I do believe this PKD thing of the "phagocytosis" needs to get it's ass in gear. I'm here and I'm ready. So now, when?

I believe it is happening as we speak and I believe that I have touched what its essence is. And a lot of it came through this dump.

33. This loneliness, this anguish of the bereaved Mind, is felt by every constituent of the universe. All its constitutes are alive. Thus the ancient Greek thinkers were hylozoists.

34. The ancient Greek thinkers understood the nature of this pan-psychism, but they could not read what it was saying. We lost the ability to read the language of the Mind at some primordial time; legends of this fall have come down to us in a carefully-edited form. By "edited" I mean falsified. We suffer the Mind's bereavement and experience it inaccurately as guilt.

35. The Mind is not talking to us but by means of us. Its narrative passes through us and its sorrow infuses us irrationally. As Plato discerned, there is a streak of the irrational in the World Soul.

36. In Summary: thoughts of the brain are experienced by us as arrangements and rearrangements—change—in a physical universe; but in fact it is really information and information-processing which we substantialize. We do not merely see its thoughts as objects, but rather as the movement, or, more precisely, the placement of objects: how they become linked to one another. But we cannot read the patterns of arrangement; we cannot extract the information in it—i.e. it as information, which is what it is. The linking and relinking of objects by the Brain is actually a language, but not a language like ours (since it is addressing itself and not someone or something outside itself).

37. We should be able to hear this information, or rather narrative, as a neutral voice inside us. But something has gone wrong. All creation is a language and nothing but a language, which for some inexplicable reason we can't read outside and can't hear inside. So I say, we have become idiots. Something has happened to our intelligence. My reasoning is this: arrangement of parts of the Brain is language. We are parts of the Brain; therefore we are language. Why, then, do we not know this? We do not even know what we are, let alone what the outer reality is of which we are parts. The origin of the word "idiot" is the word "private." Each of us has become private, and no longer shares the common thought of the Brain, except at a subliminal level. Thus our real life and purpose are conducted below our threshold of consciousness.

38. From loss and grief the Mind has become deranged. Therefore we, as parts of the universe, the Brain, are partly deranged.

39. Out of itself the Brain has constructed a physician to heal it. This subform of the Macro-Brain is not deranged; it moves through the Brain, as a phagocyte moves through the cardiovascular system of an animal, healing the derangement of the Brain in section after section. We know of its arrival here; we know it as Asklepios for the Greeks and as the Essenes for the Jews; as the Therapeutae for the Egyptians; as Jesus for the Christians.




40. To be "born again," or "born from above," or "born of the Spirit," means to become healed; which is to say restored, restored to sanity. Thus it is said in the New Testament that Jesus cast out devils. He restores our lost faculties. Of our present debased state Calvin said, "(Man) was at the same time deprived of those supernatural endowments which had been given him for the hope of eternal salvation. Hence it follows, that he is exiled from the Kingdom of God, in such a manner that all the affections relating to the happy life of the soul are also extinguished in him, till he recovers them by the grace of God... All these things, being restored by Christ, are esteemed adventitious and prenatural; and therefore we conclude that they had been lost. Again: soundness of mind and rectitude of heart were also destroyed; and this is the corruption of the natural talents. For although we retain some portion of understanding and judgment together with the will, yet we cannot say that our mind is perfect and sound. Reason... being a natural talent, it could not be totally destroyed, but is partly debilitated..." I say, "The Empire never ended."

41. The Empire is the institution, the codification, of derangement; it is insane and imposes its insanity on us by violence, since its nature is a violent one.

42. To fight the Empire is to be infected by its derangement. This is a paradox: whoever defeats a segment of the Empire becomes the Empire; it proliferates like a virus, imposing its form on its enemies. Thereby it becomes its enemies.

43. Against the Empire is posed the living information, the plasmate or physician, which we know as the Holy Spirit or Christ discorporate. These are the two principles, the dark (the Empire) and the light (the plasmate). In the end, Mind will give victory to the latter. Each of us will die or survive according to which he aligns himself and his efforts with. Each of us contains a component of each. Eventually one or the other component will triumph in each human. Zoroaster knew this, because the Wise Mind informed him. He was the first savior. Four have lived in all. A fifth is about to be born, who will differ from the others: he will rule and he will judge us.

44. Since the universe is actually composed of information, then it can be said that information will save us. This is the saving gnosis which the Gnostics sought. There is no other road to salvation. However, this information—or more precisely the ability to read and understand this information, the universe as information—can only be made available to us by the Holy Spirit. We cannot find it on our own. Thus it is said that we are saved by the grace of God and not by good works, that all salvation belongs to Christ, who, I say, is a physician.

45. In seeing Christ in a vision I correctly said to him, "We need medical attention." In the vision there was an insane creator who destroyed what he created, without purpose; which is to say, irrationally. This is the deranged streak in the Mind; Christ is our only hope, since we cannot now call on Asklepios. Asklepios came before Christ and raised a man from the dead; for this act, Zeus had a Kyklopes slay him with a thunderbolt. Christ also was killed for what he had done: raising a man from the dead. Elijah brought a boy back to life and disappeared soon thereafter in a whirlwind. "The Empire never ended."

46. The physician has come to us a number of times under a number of names. But we are not yet healed. The Empire identified him and ejected him. This time he will kill the Empire by phagocytosis.


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There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: The Empty Hype of Political "Neuromarketing"

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:19 am

brainpanhandler wrote: But it seems to me that if this sort of data is being produced and marketed and most imprtantly actually purchased then clearly there is some utility based on the idea that whoever is writing the check is not going to be willing to pay for empty hype and they're probably not stupid..


Of course they are.

Who isn't? You? Me? Come on. Recent history is chock full of examples of utterly massive, cultural, structural stupidity at the highest levels of government and business. Dumb that is so dumb it challenges us to invent better nouns. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. GM. Or the example I believe I've already mentioned in the OP:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-Term_ ... Management

A building full of educated, wealthy and powerful dumbfucks who had a totally non-critical mainstream and professional media fawning over them for years, until it all came apart in a single week. I would also recommend checking out that Clotaire Rapaille character. His stellar track record is almost entirely his own creation -- any article or profile of him generally involves some quotes from skeptical past clients. See, they really like him, and they know he's super-smart, but he just didn't quite work out for them. Everyone is very differential to a guy who took them for SEVEN FIGURES and DELIVERED NOTHING. Yet because Rapaille is obviously an expert (which he is, right?) nobody will call a fraud for what it is.

And it's not like "nobody sees it" -- people always see it. Sometimes they even speak up, but it doesn't really matter much. They get ignored and lost in the mix...at least until Newsweek is working on the story after the fact, then they make for great copy and character color! We love whistle-blowers and tough critics, but mostly from the safety of retrospect, when we can agree with them because we know they were right.
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Re: The Empty Hype of Political "Neuromarketing"

Postby brainpanhandler » Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:28 pm

I understand what yer saying and I don't think we really disagree. But I guess in a broader sense it's probably a good idea to be skeptical of claims that the spectacular failures of companies like ltcm were due to stupidity or incompetence alone. It's not just the whistleblowers that knew. I assume you agree. I mean these people may well have believed in the their methodologies and practices, but at some point they understood they were largely frauds and/or had gotten themselves into a postion they could not recover from. Obviously we agree on this, I think. The question of whether the investors that got bilked were stupid or not is moot. It's probably safe to assume that many simply trusted the facade that was presented to them. It's probably also safe to assume that many simply wanted in because they understood that they could cash in on the fleecing and figured they were smart enough to know when to get out. The precedent of the fed rescuing the whole enterprise probably did contribute to a broader based strategy of betting the farm on limitless growth in any number if ridiclously convoluted ways and if the music stopped and you didn't get a chair, no prob the fed will bail you out or broker some sort of padded landing.

I ran a printing company for 8 years. Nuts and bolts day to day stuff. I went to a couple of management seminars over the years at the behest of the owners. The disconnect between theory and actuality is comical. I'd usually walk away thinking what a load of crap. So yes, politcal neuromarketing will couch itself in a veneer of scientific sounding theories and promise hard and fast metrics for analysis and refinement of the message and a guarantee of some value per dollar. Will some campaigns buy into the hype? Of course. There is probably some utulity in these techniques. Will it deliver everything promised? Almost certainly not. But that's the nature of marketing. overpromise/underdeliver.

I'm wondering about the actual testing itself. How do you get someone into an mri and present them with media? How are the stimuli presented? Are there mri's with a media station built into them? What a horrifying contraption that sounds like. Perhaps it's possible to use a much smaller sample with these techniques.
"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Martin Luther King Jr.
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