Sirhan Sirhan: I was brainwashed' into killing

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Sirhan Sirhan: I was brainwashed' into killing

Postby whipstitch » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:54 am

RFK assassin in bid for freedom claims 'I was brainwashed' into killing
By DAILY MAIL REPORTER
Last updated at 12:43 AM on 1st March 2011
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Sirhan Sirhan claims not to remember killing
Lawyer claims he was 'brainwashed' and memory erased
The man who assassinated Robert Kennedy says he was ‘hypno-programmed’ into carrying out the attack.
The claim is at the centre of the latest appeal by Sirhan Bishara Sirhan, who shot RFK dead in a crowded hotel kitchen in Los Angeles in June 1968.
The murder changed the course of U.S. history. Kennedy was on course to win the Democratic nomination and may well have beaten Richard Nixon to the White House.

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Freedom: Sirhan Sirhan will begin his bid for freedom in California on Wednesday

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Caught: Sirhan is charged with the assassination of Senator Robert Kennedy

His lawyer is expected to argue in a California parole hearing that he was a 'Manchurian Candidate', brainwashed into assassinating RFK in June 1968.
After years of hypnotherapy and psychological examination,attorney William Pepper said there was, 'no doubt he does not remember the critical events.'
Mr Pepper, who will argue for Sirhan's parole on Wednesday said: 'He is not feigning it. It's not an act. He does not remember it.
'It was very clear to me that this guy did not kill Bob Kennedy.'
Sirhan was convicted of shooting Robert Kennedy in the crowded kitchen of the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles.
Kennedy was there after claiming victory in the California presidential primary.
According to the New York-based lawyer, who also is a British barrister, there was a second gunman who shot and killed RFK.


Proponents of the second gun man theory contend that 13 shots were fired at RFK while Sirhan's gun held only eight bullets, and that the fatal shot appeared to come from behind Kennedy while Sirhan faced him.
Mr Pepper also suggests Sirhan was 'hypno-programmed,' turning him into a virtual 'Manchurian Candidate,' acting robot-like at the behest of evil forces who then wiped his memory clean.
The claims are however not expected to have any bearing on the outcome of the parole hearing.
The board is not being asked to retry the case and lawyers are not allowed to present evidence relating to guilt or innocence.
At issue is whether Sirhan, 66, remains a threat to others or to himself, whether he has accepted responsibility for the crime and expressed adequate remorse and whether he has an acceptable parole plan if he is released.

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Stricken: Robert Kennedy moments after being shot

His lack of memory makes expressions of remorse and accepting responsibility difficult.
It is not known whether Sirhan will address the hearing at Pleasant Valley men's prison in Coalinga.
He has rarely commented during 13 past parole hearings and some instances has not shown up at all.
If Sirhan is released, he would be the first imprisoned political assassin to win parole in the U.S.
In one of many emotional outbursts during his trial, Sirhan blurted out that he had committed the crime 'with 20 years of malice aforethought,' a statement that could now come back to haunt him.
When arrested Sirhan also said: 'I did it for my country'.
Mr Pepper notes has a personal tie to Kennedy, having been chairman of his citizens' committee when he ran for Senate in 1964.

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Dynasty: The Kennedy brothers, John F. Kennedy (left) Robert Kennedy, and Ted Kennedy (right). The 'curse of the Kennedy's' blighted promising careers

Pepper also represented Martin Luther King's assassin, James Earl Ray, through 10 years of appeals and a civil trial which he said proved that Ray was not King's killer.
David Dahle, head Los Angeles deputy district attorney for parole candidates serving life sentences, said his remarks at the hearing will depend on what is presented by the defence.
'At this point, I am sceptical that I will see something that will cause me to not oppose the grant of parole,' he said.
Few high profile prisoners have been released in the California system.
Charles Manson and his followers have been repeatedly turned down for parole.
Manson follower Susan Atkins attended her final parole hearing on a gurney dying of cancer but was denied release and died in prison three weeks ago.
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Re: Sirhan Sirhan: I was brainwashed' into killing

Postby 8bitagent » Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:40 am

I feel the parole board needs to see "RFK Must Die"

If Sirhan is released, he would be the first imprisoned political assassin to win parole in the U.S.


Mmm...

Sounds like JHJr has been virtually a free man for some time
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hinck ... Elizabeths

Though technically, he's a wouldbe assassin.
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of Hugh Man Bondage

Postby IanEye » Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:05 am

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Re: of Hugh Man Bondage

Postby Mikey » Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:45 am

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There is something gently disturbing about the smiles on offer here.
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Re: Sirhan Sirhan: I was brainwashed' into killing

Postby Jeff » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:42 am

Looking for related stories this morning, discovered something interesting.

As of right now - and the story is almost 24 hours old - the only paper printing Sirhan and Pepper's actual defense is the UK's Daily Mail. No US source mentions brainwashing. Every US report alleges only that Sirhan "can't remember."

Google search for Sirhan and brainwash

Google search for Sirhan and Pepper

Other headlines:

Sirhan Sirhan Seeks Parole, Claims No Memory Of Shooting RFK‎
Assassin maintains he can't remember shooting RFK‎
Claim: Sirhan Sirhan can't remember assassinating RFK
Robert Kennedy's assassin doesn't remember
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Re: Sirhan Sirhan: I was brainwashed' into killing

Postby Jeff » Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:14 am



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Re: Sirhan Sirhan: I was brainwashed' into killing

Postby hava1 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:13 pm

nobody can be brainwashed into killing, what will happen to personal accountability, and where does this end ? remember, fascism means nobody assumes responsibility, its always "they made me do it".
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Re: Sirhan Sirhan: I was brainwashed' into killing

Postby Jeff » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:17 pm

I don't believe Sirhan killed anyone. I do believe he was brainwashed.
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Re: Sirhan Sirhan: I was brainwashed' into killing

Postby Project Willow » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:57 pm

hava1 wrote:nobody can be brainwashed into killing, what will happen to personal accountability, and where does this end ? remember, fascism means nobody assumes responsibility, its always "they made me do it".


I'm surprised at your statement, Hava, and I'll counter, people most certainly can be brainwashed into killing. We don't even need to look to the MC survivor literature for that, it's in the MKULTRA documentation.

2.) Miss [redacted] was then instructed (having previously expressed a fear of firearms in any fashion) that she would use every method at her disposal to awaken Miss [redacted] (now in a deep hypnotic sleep) and failing this, she would pick up a pistol nearby and fire it at Miss [redacted]. She was instructed that her rage would be so great that she would not hesitate to "kill" for failing to awaken. Miss [redacted] carried out these suggestions to the letter including firing the (unloaded pneumatic pistol) gun at [redacted] and then proceeding to fall into a deep sleep.


http://www.scribd.com/doc/38088065/Declassified-Mkultra-Docs

If someone is conditioned to imagine a gun pointed to their head as reminder of the consequences of non-compliance, how much does it matter whether the gun is always physically present? That hypothetical doesn't even take into account the dissociation involved, the splitting of aspects of self away from those that maintain their own will and are connected to a central sense of right and wrong.
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Re: Sirhan Sirhan: I was brainwashed' into killing

Postby Laodicean » Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:23 pm

And the most obvious one - where the "few and the proud" go to become "trained" killers.

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Re: Sirhan Sirhan: I was brainwashed' into killing

Postby Jeff » Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:55 pm

Jeff wrote:As of right now - and the story is almost 24 hours old - the only paper printing Sirhan and Pepper's actual defense is the UK's Daily Mail. No US source mentions brainwashing. Every US report alleges only that Sirhan "can't remember."

Google search for Sirhan and brainwash

Google search for Sirhan and Pepper


No change. There are 315 news stories featuring Sirhan and his attorney William Pepper in the past 24 hours. Brainwashing is mentioned in just one, and that from the UK.
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Re: Sirhan Sirhan: I was brainwashed' into killing

Postby barracuda » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:08 pm

They're beginning to pop up. Here's one on ABC News:

Assassin's Lawyer Says Sirhan Sirhan Was Brainwashed

A lawyer for Sirhan Sirhan, the confessed assassin of Robert F. Kennedy, plans to present new evidence at a parole board hearing suggesting that he did not act alone, was potentially brain washed and cannot remember anything about the 43-year-old shooting.

"There is no question he was hypno-programmed," lawyer William F. Pepper told ABCNews.com. "He was set up. He was used. He was manipulated."

Sirhan will appear before a California parole board on Wednesday for the 14th time since his May 1969 sentencing. It is the first time he will be represented by Pepper.

Taking a page from the conspiracies that have dogged the assassination of Kennedy's brother President John F. Kennedy, Pepper plans to introduce new evidence that suggests there was a second gunman who fatally shot RFK in the kitchen of a Los Angeles hotel, following his victory in the 1968 California presidential primary.

Pepper said he believes Sirhan was "hypno-programmed," essentially brainwashed to kill Kennedy and his memories were then erased.

The lawyer's tale has all the makings of a great conspiracy theory, if not a science fiction thriller akin to the "Manchurian Candidate."

"Ten independent witnesses say Sirhan was always in front of Bobby, never behind him," said Pepper, "but the autopsy says Bobby was shot at close range from behind the right ear."

Pepper says he believes he knows who ordered Sirhan to shoot Kennedy, but won't yet say who it is. He said in addition to the parole hearing, he is preparing an appeal.

The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe
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Re: Sirhan Sirhan: I was brainwashed' into killing

Postby Stephen Morgan » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:20 pm

hava1 wrote:nobody can be brainwashed into killing, what will happen to personal accountability, and where does this end ? remember, fascism means nobody assumes responsibility, its always "they made me do it".


People can be brainwashed to kill, and have been. The CIA experimentally verified it.

And what Jeff said, brainwashed but not the gunman, which was Thane Eugene Cesar.
Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible. -- Lawrence of Arabia
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Re: Sirhan Sirhan: I was brainwashed' into killing

Postby hava1 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:24 pm

Jeff-
I don't believe Sirhan killed anyone. I do believe he was brainwashed.


That's something else...but its not what most people on this board/thread assume. thanks for clarifying.



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Re: Sirhan Sirhan: I was brainwashed' into killing


hava1 wrote:
nobody can be brainwashed into killing, what will happen to personal accountability, and where does this end ? remember, fascism means nobody assumes responsibility, its always "they made me do it".




I'm surprised at your statement, Hava, and I'll counter, people most certainly can be brainwashed into killing. We don't even need to look to the MC survivor literature for that, it's in the MKULTRA documentation.



Quote:
2.) Miss [redacted] was then instructed (having previously expressed a fear of firearms in any fashion) that she would use every method at her disposal to awaken Miss [redacted] (now in a deep hypnotic sleep) and failing this, she would pick up a pistol nearby and fire it at Miss [redacted]. She was instructed that her rage would be so great that she would not hesitate to "kill" for failing to awaken. Miss [redacted] carried out these suggestions to the letter including firing the (unloaded pneumatic pistol) gun at [redacted] and then proceeding to fall into a deep sleep.




http://www.scribd.com/doc/38088065/Decl ... ultra-Docs

If someone is conditioned to imagine a gun pointed to their head as reminder of the consequences of non-compliance, how much does it matter whether the gun is always physically present? That hypothetical doesn't even take into account the dissociation involved, the splitting of aspects of self away from those that maintain their own will and are connected to a central sense of right and wrong.


Pw, I was being a bit facetious but I am willing to defend this assertion. I am well aware of MK, as you know, personally as well. However, when we are making political observations OR legal ones, I will have to see more evidence to someone being so deeply controlled so as to make them KILL, (as opposed to granting a blowjob), and lose accountability. Your example , a person who kills under gunpoint, is not relevant. (that would be justified killing AT TIMES, but not always. We are not supposed to kill someone else to save our lives, but self defense can extend to some of these cases). I was refering to fascism "accountability" problem, because that's how it works, people harm others at gun point, and somehow we never know who is the original guy at the top who does it of choice.

I made this assertion in view of the selective and differential treatment of "accountability" on this board, as a POLITICAL board. I hope the case was made. the "they made me do it" defense is not rigorously applied here, to say the least.

LAstly, personal note, in 1992, I think or perhaps late 1991, I was dragged to a shooting range in West LA, almost daily, with an Israeli thug, Yehuda something, who would put me in the booth with a large shining Glock pistol. that's the closest to "manchurian" I ever got, hopefully I have never used this skill, but I am well aware of hypnosis and induced amnesia. We can all be subjected to various strange deeds, and children in Siera Leona kill their own families and tribe after a short period of drug-cruelty training. I do think though that if we recognize those situations, it should be done with rigour, and intellectual honesty.

I tend to agree that most likely the fallguy is brainwashed to BELIEVE he killed, and someone else actually made sure the bullet gets in. That would be more operational, I think than trusting a brainwashed assassin to perform.

Sorry for heresy corner...move on with JFK, its a local american issue.if its organized crimes, as I think it was, then he was definitely a fallguy, one way or the other.
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Re: Sirhan Sirhan: I was brainwashed' into killing

Postby hava1 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:30 pm

Where did the CIA verify that ?

Stephen Morgan wrote:
hava1 wrote:nobody can be brainwashed into killing, what will happen to personal accountability, and where does this end ? remember, fascism means nobody assumes responsibility, its always "they made me do it".


People can be brainwashed to kill, and have been. The CIA experimentally verified it.

And what Jeff said, brainwashed but not the gunman, which was Thane Eugene Cesar.
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