hava1 wrote:Pw, I was being a bit facetious but I am willing to defend this assertion. I am well aware of MK, as you know, personally as well. However, when we are making political observations OR legal ones, I will have to see more evidence to someone being so deeply controlled so as to make them KILL, (as opposed to granting a blowjob), and lose accountability.
I still differ with you and we should have the legal discussion, it's come up a number of times of late.
hava1 wrote:Your example , a person who kills under gunpoint, is not relevant. (that would be justified killing AT TIMES, but not always. We are not supposed to kill someone else to save our lives, but self defense can extend to some of these cases).
It most certainly is relevant as that kind of coercion, kill or be killed, is a major component of MC, but it's not the only one.
hava1 wrote:I was refering to fascism "accountability" problem, because that's how it works, people harm others at gun point, and somehow we never know who is the original guy at the top who does it of choice. I made this assertion in view of the selective and differential treatment of "accountability" on this board, as a POLITICAL board. I hope the case was made. the "they made me do it" defense is not rigorously applied here, to say the least.
"I was just following orders" is indeed morally problematic in many cases, so the question becomes is it possible to draw a line where coercion or lack of control diffuse responsibility? I'll argue that there is such a line and behind it are the lethal weapons I've seen created through the tortures of MC.
hava1 wrote:LAstly, personal note, in 1992, I think or perhaps late 1991, I was dragged to a shooting range in West LA, almost daily, with an Israeli thug, Yehuda something, who would put me in the booth with a large shining Glock pistol. that's the closest to "manchurian" I ever got, hopefully I have never used this skill, but I am well aware of hypnosis and induced amnesia. We can all be subjected to various strange deeds, and children in Siera Leona kill their own families and tribe after a short period of drug-cruelty training. I do think though that if we recognize those situations, it should be done with rigour, and intellectual honesty.
I'll share something of my experience too. I was a young kid at the time and could barely hold up the rifle. I've always been thankful I wasn't a great shot. This kind of training, from what I know of other survivors, is SOP. In my experience, assassins aren't created in great numbers but when they're done well, they're not only trustworthy, they're efficient and lethal as hell.