"Suicides" and "accidents" - The official RI thread

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Re: "Suicides" and "accidents" - The official RI thread

Postby thrulookingglass » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:03 pm

Found it! Answered my own question. Excerpt from "The Last Circle":
I was becoming unresponsive to the game, so I presume Nichols decided it was time to "set the
hook." It was not until two years later that I understood the significance of this incident. At one
point during our conversation, and completely out of context with what we were discussing, Nichols
played a video tape of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. The southern wall of Nichols'
apartment contained a sixfootwide screen on which I watched a blownup (enlarged), slow motion
"uncut" version of the famous Zapruder film.
I watched what appeared to be the standard media version of the film, seen so many times in film
clips over the years, but then Nichols slowed the camera even more, and on the sixfoot screen, I
observed the driver of the limousine turn to his right, first looking at Connolly, then at Kennedy.
The driver's left hand came over his right shoulder, and he was holding a long barreled gun. Smoke
and a bullet emerged from the gun, traveling ever so slowly across the screen into Kennedy's head,
blowing brain tissue into the air as he fell back against the seat.
Stunned, I watched Jacqueline Kennedy open her mouth in horror as she glanced at the driver, then
try to climb over the back seat of the car.
Littman and Zokosky and I stared at the scene in silence, unable to believe what we were seeing.
Nichols then changed the tape and showed what he described as the "media" version of the
Zapruder tape. In the media version, the driver continued to drive, unflinching, as the shots rang
out. Then the scene switched to the back part of the limousine.
At this point, Nichols stopped the frame and pointed with a stick at a tree in the background behind
the limousine. From the middle of the tree to the ground, there was no trunk, just air. The top part of
the tree was growing in air!
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Re: "Suicides" and "accidents" - The official RI thread

Postby Cordelia » Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:16 pm

^^^
Thanks for this, thrulookingglass.

fwiw....Found this youtube;....... beginning at the 2:45 mark (the 3:07 shot is pretty compelling). Youtube film uses Oliver Stone’s ‘JFK’ film soundtrack, which I found a bit distracting.

Remembering too that the limo slowed down, almost to a stop.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT1ubiS3ips
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Re: "Suicides" and "accidents" - The official RI thread

Postby Elvis » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:46 pm

Cordelia wrote:beginning at the 2:45 mark (the 3:07 shot is pretty compelling). Youtube film uses Oliver Stone’s ‘JFK’ film soundtrack, which I found a bit distracting.


Since years ago, I have looked and looked for the driver shooting and have never been able to discern it. I am convinced, in any event, that some element of the Secret Service abetted the assassination. By then the CIA had sheep-dipped agents and assets in every department of the government.
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Re: "Suicides" and "accidents" - The official RI thread

Postby 82_28 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:42 pm

Ruled a suicide or something but who is to know?

Femen co-founder Oksana Shachko found dead in Paris flat

Oksana Shachko, one of the founders of the Femen feminist protest movement, has been found dead in her Paris apartment, the group has said.

The 31-year-old Ukrainian was found on Monday with a suicide note next to her body, according to Femen activists.

“It is with great regret and deep pain that I must confirm the death of Oksana,” said Inna Shevchenko, one of Femen’s leaders, who also lives in the French capital.

Another Femen founder, Anna Gutsol, wrote on Facebook: “RIP. The most fearless and vulnerable Oksana Shachko has left us. We mourn together with her relatives and friends.” She said the group was awaiting “the official version from the police”.

Shachko was one of four feminist activists who founded Femen in Ukraine in 2008. Exiled in France since 2013, she had since left the group and was working as an artist.

Operating under the slogan “I came, I stripped, I won”, Femen quickly drew attention around the world with its bare-breasted demonstrations against sexism.

Their protests also challenged authoritarianism and racism, with the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, a particular target, along with France’s far-right Front National party.

But in recent years the group has struggled with internal divisions as well as legal proceedings against its members.

In 2011, Femen said Shachko was among three members “kidnapped” by security agents and forced to strip naked in a forest after staging a topless protest mocking the Belarussian president, Alexander Lukashenko. The agents poured oil over the three women, threatened to set them on fire, and cut off their hair, Femen said.

Shachko was abducted again by unknown assailants during a visit by Putin to Ukraine, according to the group. A lawyer for said Shachko was beaten so badly that she was briefly hospitalised.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... are_btn_tw

Oh and that JFK getting ultimately done in by the driver is actually an angle I had never heard or actually occurred to me. "Thanks" for sharing.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: "Suicides" and "accidents" - The official RI thread

Postby thrulookingglass » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:58 am

At risk of turning this into yet another JFK Assassination thread, but wanted to add a few comments. I'll agree that the "public" version of the Zapruder film, for lack of a better term, does not clearly reveal Bill Greer as the fatal head shot deliverer. If you do watch the limo, however, he does display extremely suspicious behavior. I highly recommend covering all but the driver and the agent riding shotgun when viewing the Zapruder film as the actions in the rear of the limo tend to distract. I do think its significant that two sources state they viewed another version of the Zapruder film displaying the same information. What strikes me as one of the most compelling pieces of evidence that the shot came from this direction is the reaction of president Kennedy's head. So sick of watching that film. What a celebration of horrors. I've thought about the fence shooter (angle of the wound is all wrong), sewer opening shooter, (again angle all wrong in regards to JFK's violent head kick back) and the only one that really makes sense to me is a round coming from directly in front of Kennedy on a flat low trajectory at an extremely close range. It is also believed that Jacqueline may have seen Greer in action and this is why she tried to escape the limo itself. "The Last Circle" should be required reading for anyone here, it's really a cornerstone of modern treachery. As this is the "suicides" thread, there is a whole and nearly ever growing community of persons experiencing suspicious deaths in relation to the Kennedy assassination. I'd like to recommend the lectures by Prof. Jerry Kroth and Douglas P Horne, a former member of the ARRB, which are available on youtube as they seem to offer a comprehensive dissemination of the events/coup de etat in Dallas. William Cooper had made a statement that a false flag attack would be made weeks before 9/11 occurred and that it would be blamed on Islamic terrorism/OBL before he met an untimely death. WC heads in that "Christiano-fascist" direction though and it tends to make me feel sick inside. Anyhow, after years of research that I've done, I'm going to have to say that I believe the kill shot came from Greer. Read about the Smedley Butler business plot of which Prescott Bush was said to be involved, I know it's shocking to see the Bush family involved in yet another round of subterfuge. It's like that scene in Ronin, the first thing you do when you set up to cause some trouble is to make sure you have a clear path of egress.
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Re: "Suicides" and "accidents" - The official RI thread

Postby Cordelia » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:02 pm

Elvis » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:46 pm wrote:
Cordelia wrote:beginning at the 2:45 mark (the 3:07 shot is pretty compelling). Youtube film uses Oliver Stone’s ‘JFK’ film soundtrack, which I found a bit distracting.


Since years ago, I have looked and looked for the driver shooting and have never been able to discern it. I am convinced, in any event, that some element of the Secret Service abetted the assassination. By then the CIA had sheep-dipped agents and assets in every department of the government.


Just remembered the reports that members of Kennedy's Secret Service detail were out drinking until early hours on the morning of the assassination.

“Obviously men who have been drinking until nearly three a.m. are in no condition to be trigger-alert or in the best physical shape to protect anyone,” Pearson wrote about the Secret Service agents in the Kennedy motorcade.

The Warren Commission duly questioned the Secret Service agents in question about their activities the night before the assassination and found they had been drinking. But in the 1960s the pastime of drinking with peers or colleagues was considered normal, acceptable behavior in many circles. Because of the lack of social stigma associated with drinking, it was hard for the panel’s members to know how to react.

https://www.newsweek.com/drunken-truth- ... ion-391613


Maybe Conrad Brean's line from ‘Wag the Dog’: "Who killed Kennedy? I read the first draft of the Warren report. It said he was killed by a drunk driver." wasn't just a joke, but carried more 'veiled' truth via Hollywood.

Multiple agencies, organizations, branches of Gov't, friends & foes, had a hand imo. All the bases were covered and no-one will ever know 'who' really delivered the fatal blow.

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Re: "Suicides" and "accidents" - The official RI thread

Postby thrulookingglass » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:46 pm

Leviticus 10:9
9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations.


The bible goes on and on to state those who imbibe are not worthy of God's love. Aye :starz: Rumor has it they might have even stopped at the Carousel Club...Nixon's friend who changed his name from it's hebrew origins to better suit life's greater riches, a polished stone, an associate of mafioso boss Carlos Marcello. Of course, father Joseph Kennedy was known to do rum runs back when prohibition brought forth the waterfall of cash flow.

"Oh what a tangled web we weave
When first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

Clint Murchison, all the way with LBJ, Standard Oil...black gold, Penzoil, Zapata Off Shore, Cay Sal. The vine withers when devouring the blood of the poor. Part of the secret service stand down exists on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trx5m_QaDao

Multiple agencies, organizations, branches of Gov't, friends & foes, had a hand imo. All the bases were covered and no-one will ever know 'who' really delivered the fatal blow.


It was Greer. Many others shots taken.

Though it might not truly be of Shakespeare, the words ring soundly, just the same:

Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. The saying goes you live by the sword you shall die by the sword...It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am YHWH (sic).

I don't care where they spent the night before, it was the day of my dead king that I have great reckoning for.
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Re: "Suicides" and "accidents" - The official RI thread

Postby Cordelia » Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:07 am

thrulookingglass » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:58 am wrote: As this is the "suicides" thread, there is a whole and nearly ever growing community of persons experiencing suspicious deaths in relation to the Kennedy assassination.


Reminded of folk singer Phil Ochs (included elsewhere on RI but not here), who was found hanging in 1976.


Phil Ochs at Dealey Plaza?


By William E. Kelly, Jr.

Image


"Captain Fritz questioned him and said the President had been killed…Oswald replied, 'people will forget that within a few days and there would be another president.' Oswald felt the State was so unfeeling that grief for its fallen leader would be short-lived. He could not have been more wrong. 'A man so-filled with life even Death was caught off guard,' as the folk-singer Phil Ochs described JFK, and when he died, will never be forgotten." - Gary O’Brian Oswald’s Politics [1.]

“A man so filled-with life even Death was caught off guard,” is just one of the things Phil Ochs said of JFK.

Ochs also claimed knowledge of a plot to kill the president before it happened, and according to his college room mate and best man Jim Glover, Ochs was a witness to the assassination as “a national security observer” at Dealey Plaza.

In following the assassination of President Kennedy for as long as I have I thought I had heard it all, but one of the more bizarre conspiracy theories I’ve come across is the idea that Phil Ochs had expressed foreknowledge of the assassination, was present at Dealey Plaza as “a national security observer,” and kept those facts secret in fear for his own life.

Ochs then committed suicide on April 9, 1976 at the age of 35, a death some believe should be considered suspicious.

I took a particular interest in this theory because I had started to compile a list of those who had expressed foreknowledge of the assassination, and in reviewing their backgrounds, tried to determine if they actually knew about the plot to kill the president from those who could have actually been involved. Phil Ochs was a new name to that list. [2]

I also took particular interest in this allegation because I had actually knew Phil Ochs for a few hours one night when I was a teenager, and I thought that it would be pretty simple to determine whether he was in Dallas that day or not.

Boy was I wrong.

I crossed paths with Phil Ochs at the Democratic National Convention in Chicago in late August 1968 when we were both roaming among the rooms reserved for the Eugene McCarthy campaign on the 15th floor of the Conrad Hilton Hotel.

While much is lost in the fog of the riots that occurred, I clearly remember Ochs on the last night we were there, sitting on the floor in the hall playing a guitar and singing, serenading a dozen or so McCarthy volunteers, myself included. And while Ochs and I didn’t personally meet or talk, we sat a few feet from each other for a few hours while he played guitar and sang and I listened and, at seventeen years old, had my first alcoholic drink - a whiskey on the rocks. A few hours later the Chicago police raided the 18th floor and busted us all, an event that would make the news and a few paragraphs in the history books. [3]

So after I developed an interest in the assassination of President Kennedy, I was quite surprised to learn that Phil Ochs had expressed foreknowledge of the assassination and may have actually been at Dealey Plaza as a “national security observer” to the murder.

The source of this particular conspiracy theory, folk singer Jim Glover, is a free spirited musician and folksinger who still performs today. I had met Jim on John Simkin’s Education Forum, [4] and he is now a Facebook friend.

Jim Glover first called my attention to the Dealey Plaza photograph that he says includes his old friend Phil Ochs, standing on the Houston street sidewalk behind a few Dallas cops peering up towards the top floors of the Texas School Book Depository with weapons drawn. [5]
http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2013 ... plaza.html



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSQRuNmP7SU

(The year before his death, 1975, Ochs 'adopted/channeled' an alter ego of a 'John Train', who, in real-life was/is a wealthy, blue-blooded, well connected, financial advisor & CIA operative.)

ImageImage

Edit to add 'coincidently':

“In mid-1975, Ochs took on the identity of John Butler Train. He told people that Train had murdered Ochs, and that he, John Butler Train, had replaced him. Train was convinced that someone was trying to kill him, so he carried a weapon at all times: a hammer, a knife, or a lead pipe.[106]”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Ochs


The 'real' John Train's father, Arthur Cheney Train, wrote legal thrillers.

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Re: "Suicides" and "accidents" - The official RI thread

Postby Elvis » Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:33 pm

^^^ That Jim Glover story about the tour bus represents a minor breakthrough in piecing the plot together (imo); I think this section has more of Glover's remarkable account:

http://jfkcountercoup2.blogspot.com/201 ... -ochs.html
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Re: "Suicides" and "accidents" - The official RI thread

Postby thrulookingglass » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:21 pm

What the f*ck man?! This thing reads like a book now...too much rust in Oswald's Carcano? I'd never heard that before. Are you kidding me?! And the mass media still clings on to the lone gunman theory?! The comments below were even more telling. Yesterday I saw a comment regarding the great pyramid stating the lid from the 'sarcophagus' was made from a meteorite of iron and that the said lid was later used as the stone that is heralded at the Muslim Kaaba. The leading theory now is that the box inside the great pyramid held the arch of the covenant, which charged it with some immense power. Phil Ochs...jeesh. I have a soft heart for protest singers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gv1KEF8Uw2k
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Re: "Suicides" and "accidents" - The official RI thread

Postby dada » Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:13 pm

This thread gets me thinking about the idea that 'they don't want to make a martyr of you."

One of those Syrians in prison wrote an essay about how torture, theory aside, is about making an example, a Kafka-esque etching on bodies and minds, "this is what you get."

And I think power must always make an example on bodies and minds. They may not want to make martyrs, but if someone gives any indication that they can't be used as a billboard, they might make an exception.

Very depressing outlook, sorry. Maybe the war-strategy dept. can find some use for this.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: "Suicides" and "accidents" - The official RI thread

Postby dada » Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:06 am

Martyrs as collateral damage. Power will deal with it, they're still getting paid.

Like all these dueling Intelligence factions, fighting for airtime. Who's in on it? Who's being made a fool of?

And what does it matter to them, they're still getting paid.

More from the depressing perspective, sorry. War-strategy department, get on this.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: "Suicides" and "accidents" - The official RI thread

Postby Cordelia » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:14 am

One more note on Phil Ochs; from a 1998 interview w/author Alex Constantine (The Covert War Against Rock, Psychic Dictatorship in the U.S.A.) and suspicious deaths in the music industry.


by Adam Parfrey

"The C.I.A. and the Mafia coordinated activities because the Mafia wanted a piece of the music business and the C.I.A. wanted to do away with politics in popular music — so they had an incentive to join forces."

If the Hippie psychedelic drug extravaganza began with the C.I.A. (see Acid Dreams by Martin Lee and Bruce Shlain), and the F.B.I. conducted a snitch operation against Leftists in the Sixties and Seventies (COINTELPRO), could Rock & Roll have been left alone?

No, we're not buying into the Lyndon LaRouche conspiracy theory which posits that The Beatles and Grateful Dead were unholy inventions of the Tavistock Institute in England, designed to clutter and confuse youthful minds and take them away from Mozart and nuclear fusion.

The following interview with ALEX CONSTANTINE, author of Psychic Dictatorship In The U.S.A., and Virtual Government: C.I.A. Mind Control Operations In America, concerns his research for a book named Operation Chaos. Constantine seems interested in the unholy convergence of music biz mobsters — who find some figures worth far more dead than alive — and intelligence agencies anxious to experiment with mind control on fresh, controllable young brains. And beneath all this is the right-wing intelligence agencies' fear of a loud and emerging Leftist movement, a movement particularly situated within Rock & Roll music.

SECONDS: You're working on a book called Operation Chaos, which concerns the subtext and subrosa events of Rock & Roll and what goes on in terms of government intelligence operations and assassinations of individuals in Rock, Blues and Jazz. Why do you believe the assassinations have come to pass?

CONSTANTINE: There have been Congressional testimonies from C.I.A. operatives who admitted, without providing details or names, that they have "driven some of these musicians to their deaths." They admitted they had performed surveillance, mail openings, phone taps. The main musicians of the period reported being followed by the F.B.I. John Lennon went on national television and complained he couldn't leave the house without being followed by FBI operatives.

So, you have this testimony that they had "driven some of these musicians to their deaths." Well, what does it mean that they had driven these musicians to their deaths and exactly who was it that they had driven to their deaths? It's a small step to say the C.I.A. actually assassinated some of these musicians. If you begin to look into some of the details surrounded the deaths of Mama Cass Elliot, Phil Ochs. Jimi Hendrix — up to the modern period with Michael Hutchence, whose death was extremely mysterious — you began to ask a lot of questions about how exactly these people died. In fact, some of them were driven to their deaths. To give you an example, Phil Ochs developed a multiple personality. He was a part of a group I called the "Baez Contras" who surrounded Joan Baez. It's known that Joan was used in C.I.A. mind control experimentation at a very early age. She was subjected to trauma-based programming, which is still in use today in the creation of multiple personalities. If you look at the latest record by Joan Baez, she thanks her multiple personalities on the back of the record. Then you have her friend Phil Ochs, who was equally adamant in his opposition to the U.S. government and covert operations — and he developed a multiple personality by the name of John Train. It wasn't until ten years later that the name "John Train" surfaced as a C.I.A. operative working on Wall Street. As a matter of fact, Lyndon LaRouche complained about an agent named John Train who supposedly led him to his present jail sentence. During the 1960s and Seventies, John Train of the C.I.A. had the job of disrupting the Left, which was the sole purpose of Operation Chaos. So how was it that Phil Ochs came to have a multiple personality with the name of an actual C.I.A. agent? We know Phil Ochs was found hung in 1976 and it was his alternate personality that did the hanging that actually assassinated the host personality.


The F.B.I. and C.I.A. came together in Operation Chaos; it was an inter-agency program that drew upon the entire intelligence apparatus of the U.S. government. As I say, it was the largest covert project in American history.

More...http://www.secondsmagazine.com/articles ... antine.php
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Re: "Suicides" and "accidents" - The official RI thread

Postby Marionumber1 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:28 am

Dave McGowan also touches on Phil Ochs in p.44-45 of Weird Scenes Inside The Canyon:

Beginning in the fall of 1956, Phil Ochs began attending Staunton Military Academy, the very same institution that future serial killer/cult leader Gary Heidnik would attend just one year after Ochs graduated. During Phil’s two years there, a friend and fellow band member was found swinging from the end of a rope. (I probably don’t need to add here that the death was ruled a suicide.) Following graduation, Phil enrolled at Ohio State University, but not before, oddly enough, having a little plastic surgery done to alter his appearance (doing such things, needless to say, was rather uncommon in 1958).

In early 1962, just months before his scheduled graduation, Ochs dropped out of college to pursue a career in music. By 1966, he had released three albums. In 1967, under the management of his brother, Michael Ochs, Phil moved out to Los Angeles. Michael had begun working the previous year as an assistant to Billy James, who maintained a party house at 8504 Ridpath in—you guessed it—Laurel Canyon. As the 1970s rolled around, and with his career beginning to fade, Phil Ochs began to travel internationally, usually accompanied by vast quantities of booze and pills. Those travels included a visit to Chile not long before the US-sponsored coup that toppled Salvador Allende.

In the summer of 1975, Phil Ochs’ public persona abruptly changed. Adopting the name John Butler Train, Ochs proclaimed himself a CIA operative and presented himself as a belligerent, right-wing thug. He told an interviewer that, “on the first day of summer 1975, Phil Ochs was murdered in the Chelsea Hotel by John Train… For the good of societies, public and secret, he needed to be gotten rid of.” That symbolic assassination, on the summer solstice, took place at the same hotel that Devon Wilson had flown out of a few years earlier. One of Ochs’ biographers would later write that Phil/John “actually believed he was a member of the CIA.” Also in those final months of his life, Ochs began compiling curious lists, with entries that apparently reference US biological warfare research: “shellfish toxin, Fort Dietrich, cobra venom, Chantilly Race Track, hollow silver dollars, New York Cornell Hospital…”

Many years before Ochs’ metamorphosis, in an interesting bit of foreshadowing, psychological warfare operative George Estabrooks explained, in his book Hypnotism, how US intelligence agencies had been working to create the perfect spy: “We start with an excellent subject… we need a man or woman who is highly intelligent and physically tough. Then we start to develop a case of multiple personality through hypnotism. In his normal waking state, which we will call Personality A, or PA, this individual will become a rabid communist. He will join the party, follow the party line and make himself as objectionable as possible to the authorities. Note that he will be acting in good faith. He is a communist, or rather his PA is a communist and will behave as such. Then we develop Personality B (PB), the secondary personality, the unconscious personality, if you wish, although this is somewhat of a contradiction in terms. This personality is rabidly American and anti-communist. It has all the information possessed by PA, the normal personality, whereas PA does not have this advantage… My super spy plays his role as a communist in his waking state, aggressively, consistently, fearlessly. But his PB is a loyal American, and PB has all the memories of PA. As a loyal American, he will not hesitate to divulge those memories.”

Estabrooks never explained what would happen if the programming were to go haywire and Personality B were to emerge and become the conscious personality, but my guess is that such a person would be considered a severe liability and would be treated accordingly. They might even find themselves swinging from the end of a rope. Phil Ochs was thirty-five at the time of his death.
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Re: "Suicides" and "accidents" - The official RI thread

Postby Cordelia » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:42 am

^^^Wow :shock:

Thanks!
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