Where is UFOlogy at in 2015?

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Re: Where is UFOlogy at in 2011?

Postby hanshan » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:07 pm

...

justdrew wrote:is there a good biography on Lavenda? I'm not finding a birth date even. He was a member of AOCC, must have been rather young at the time. Isn't he likely an insider? or does he have some sort of whistleblower angle to his presentations? I'm going to go ahead and see that presentation Wombat, looks interesting...


no bio as such we're aware of; check this:

http://rigint.blogspot.com/2006/07/simon-says.html

from the comments (also, Levenda showed up for a Q&A @ one of the comments sections.
Can't recall when or which blog post (ask Jeff - he may remember):

& this:
http://www.nypress.com/article-7663-the-doom-that-came-to-chelsea.html

From Jeff's "Weird Tales" link:

Levenda added more detail in this interview a few years ago with the editor of Dagobert’s Revenge:

My involvement was on the translation side. I've been around occult groups in New York since the late Sixties. I was a friend of Herman Slater of the old Warlock Shop in Brooklyn Heights before it moved to Manhattan and became Magickal Childe.

I was around during the famous Witch Wars of the Seventies, when it seemed that everyone was casting spells on everyone else. I was there when Gardnerians and Welsh Trads and Alexandrians and Sicilian Trads sat down around a table in the back of Herman's shop to settle the War and make peace once and for all. Herman had once interviewed neo-Nazis in New York in the 1960s and we had a lot of interests in common. I never joined any of the groups, that wasn't my intention or inclination, but I was a familiar face around the campfire, so to speak.

My fascination has always been on the degree to which religion and occultism influence mainstream politics; Unholy Alliance began as an academic study of this before it turned into a Nazi history.

As for the Necronomicon, it was part of a stash of stolen books. The story is told, I think, in other places and I have been asked this before -- also on the Internet -- so to summarize: in the 1970s a couple of Eastern Orthodox monks pulled off the biggest rare book heist in the history of the United States. It was a continuing crime, the books being taken from libraries and private collections all over the country (and, it was said, Canada and Mexico). They were finally busted, and did federal time, but most of the books were never recovered. The Necronomicon was part of this swag as were a lot of occult books. It was in Greek, handwritten, but the problem was that much of the Greek was unintelligible.

My modest contribution to this was recognizing that some of the Greek was an attempt to phoneticize Babylonian and Sumerian words. I am not one of the people arguing that this Necronomicon is THE Necronomicon, or that Lovecraft was even aware that it existed. I think Lovecraft heard the name through one of his friends in the Golden Dawn, and used it creatively.

If the Simon Necronomicon is a hoax, I think it would have been better done and more closely followed the Cthulhu Mythos. I kind of like the fact that William Burroughs was into it, and wrote Simon and L. K. Barnes a letter praising it as an important spiritual breakthrough.




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Re: Where is UFOlogy at in 2011?

Postby barracuda » Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:42 pm

Wombaticus Rex wrote: What's behind the curtain? What is the actual technology being developed under folks like Ben Rich? What are the parameters of the parallel military space program?


We can only extrapolate from what we know, and what we know they won't tell us.

There's the X-37, the next-gen shuttle, overseen by the Air Force Rapid Capabilities Office (RCO).

There's the joy of Hypervelocity Rod Bundles, orbiting 20-foot-long 1-foot-diameter tungsten rods that are satellite controlled, have global strike capability, with impact speeds of Mach 10, and 25-foot strike accuracy.

Image

Whoops, I mean...

Image

Of course, there's the Falcon Project, which supposedly failed last month when the flight lost radio contact and crashed into the Pacific. (Yeah, right - does anyone buy that?)

Image

Whoops, I mean...

Image

And lots, lots more, like Aurora, Black Manta, Astra TR-3B, various drones of every shape and size, space-based weaponry, etc. There's plenty to hide.

What is the cover up for?


I think it's partly to simply hide and disguise vulnerabilities within the defense capabilities. Many of the FOIA documents outlined by Dolan in the video you posted describe situations in which the Air Force or other military branches were outclassed or mystrified by the UFOs. It's not hard to imagine the terror among the U.S. generals when confronted with the possibility that more plainly corporeal enemies might derive helpful strategic hints regarding our limitations by simply viewing our responses or the lack thereof to these unidentified threats.

So between these two factors alone - hidden black budget technologies (no matter how seemingly prosaic), and documented limitations of defensive capabilities - you have a potentially debilitating analysis by our competitors and a great reason for any variety of coverups and disinformation. Then, of course, the secrecy becomes endemic and institutionalised within the administration of the government and military, and becomes overdone as a matter of mere SOP to the point of pure stupidity. And it's worked - at this point, any report, no matter how silly or rational can be used as camoflage.

There's also the notion that the amount of money being spent on military black projects has to be kept secret, because it's basically public theft.

But I've a feeling maybe you've got a theory of your own regarding the what and the why of the coverup, and I'd be interested to hear it.
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Re: Where is UFOlogy at in 2011?

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:23 pm

barracuda wrote:But I've a feeling maybe you've got a theory of your own regarding the what and the why of the coverup, and I'd be interested to hear it.



You know what? I really don't. I'm just fascinated by the size of the Gap, you know? When Ben Rich makes comments about Skunk Works space tech being 50 years ahead of public understanding -- not "technology" or "private enterprise" but "public understanding" -- it gives me pause, for sure.

A lot goes on in that pause, though. Steve Jobs talks all kinds of shit about his products, too: it's just advertising. Of course Ben Rich wants people to think he's full of fascinating secrets (book deal) and his company has game-changing tech to spare (stock portfolio).

Maybe there's nothing behind the curtain -- maybe the entire Skunk Works ecosystem is just to launder drug money and re-distribute taxpayer money to reward contractors.

On the other hand, maybe there's so much behind the curtain that Rich is actually downplaying the reality of his understanding. That's the Gap, though, the big black hole of We Don't Know that you can apparently fit an entire "breakaway civilization" through.

An interesting UFOlogy story comes to mind, and I'll finish on that:

I was recently discussing the covert world with an older friend of mine who, well, fuck it cuz I can't say shit anyway. Sorry to do this, but the punchline is worth it and why bother talking around the fact I won't talk about him?

I was telling him the Jacques Vallee anaecdote that he (proudly) includes in Revelations, about sitting in on a conversation between Linda Howe, perhaps Friedman and a several other UFOlogy professionals who were discussing the then-new mythos of the Dulce underground base. Vallee listens patiently, then asks "Who takes out the garbage?"

My friend immediately replied "Wackenhut and KBR." Needless to say, that's not a reaction I've ever gotten before and it completely collapses the point of Vallee's anaecdote, too. Yet in his world, Vallee's "gotcha" question is just a mundane, common sense detail.

The Gap between his world and mine is huge, yet we can sit in the same room together. That amazes me more than it probably should.
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Re: Where is UFOlogy at in 2011?

Postby barracuda » Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:58 pm

I've always felt that the point behind Vallee's question had more to do with the realities of detectable energy signatures than actual logistics. But I guess if you are presuming they can hide the heat signature of a base the size of Manhattan, the matter of waste disposal becomes irrelevant.
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Re: Where is UFOlogy at in 2011?

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:51 am

Gee, you've never heard of someone else named "Vallee" who was a whole lot more significant to our species than this French military-intelligence pontificator working with the Pentagon's NASA?

Yah. Didn't think so.

Thomas Arthur Vallee - The Education Forum
"Just received my copy of JFK and the Unspeakable by James W. Douglass. It does seem to have quite a bit ... Thomas Arthur Vallee Chicago's Patsy in waiting? ..."
educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=12867

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index ... opic=12867
CIA runs mainstream media since WWII:
news rooms, movies/TV, publishing
...
Disney is CIA for kidz!
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Re: Where is UFOlogy at in 2011?

Postby barracuda » Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:00 am

How could we have missed it - you've posted that particular linkage of yours over thirty times here.
The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe
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Re: Where is UFOlogy at in 2011?

Postby 8bitagent » Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:29 am

Ok, so Hugh can come off as a stuck record needle sometimes, I'm sure we all can at times. But Hugh also shares the belief that UFOs are all black budget projects/psyops

I mean it's a relief to know! The idea that inter dimensional space aliens are actually gub'ment advanced projects is much easier to mentally entertain *whew*
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Re: Where is UFOlogy at in 2011?

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:32 am

8bitagent wrote:Ok, so Hugh can come off as a stuck record needle sometimes, I'm sure we all can at times. But Hugh also shares the belief that UFOs are all black budget projects/psyops

I mean it's a relief to know! The idea that inter dimensional space aliens are actually gub'ment advanced projects is much easier to mentally entertain *whew*


I see what you did there.
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Re: Where is UFOlogy at in 2011?

Postby Searcher08 » Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:35 am

What is the name for turning the mental map of an area into one colored by only TWO colours?

Cognitive monochromaticism?
Suppose that there is a Big Texas sized State called PsyopsLand. If you color it Green and the ervyother state as Brown? What happens?

Well
A) You dramatically highlight this previously unknown Green State.
B) You reduce all distinctions between the other States, which turn into a Brown colored "Rest of States". All the distinctions and boundaries between them are lost.

If you challenge the person and say -
"Yes - I see the Big Green State of PsyopsLand. However you are removing all boundaries between the other states and saying they are the same.
LOOK AT THESE DIFFERENCES!

and THEY ONLY EVER SAY

"LOOK, LOOK AT PSYOPSLAND. ITS BIG AND GREEN!!!!"

Then some likely things are
A His telescope is fixed in concrete. He CANT look away
B Someone, somewhere, wants to create a big Brown colored "Rest of States " map
where there are NO DISTINCTIONS.

Creativity, and the ability to meet new situations with it, is often connected with creating new distinctions. Like knowing the distinction of "Tide going out very rapidly = Tsunami likely, so RUN!"

Any process which reduces the entire area of UFology and exopolitics to a "Look! Look!! at PsyopsLand" deserves examining for its wider effects. It is maybe NOT monomania but 'variety reduction'.

We need better, richer maps of this area, not ones that scream "After The Green State of PsyopsLand, THERE BE DRAGONS!!!"
________________________________________________________________


I have observed that the civilan bureocrasy often seems to have IT systems which are about 50 years BEHIND what consumers have. :lol2: America's voting software run on... Micrsoft frikkin Access?

There seem to be small sets of actors who DO have access to more tech - these would be more likely found in the Quant Research teams of GoldmanSachs rather than Area51. When I worked in trading in the 1980s, there was a lot of research into neural networking, AI which Im sure is very well developed now.

My instinct is that the gap may relate to a small set of people who have access to very advanced tech, but that this can also be a very distracting shiny meme, that distracts from looking at very ordinary and available tech being used for very unpleasent purposes. Such as transnational drug money flows and their intersection with the banking system.
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Re: Where is UFOlogy at in 2011?

Postby barracuda » Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:06 pm

Joe Hillshoist wrote:I see what you did there.


Me too. At least I think so, if I'm not being overly self-centered.

8bitagent wrote:Ok, so Hugh can come off as a stuck record needle sometimes, I'm sure we all can at times. But Hugh also shares the belief that UFOs are all black budget projects/psyops


It seems as if you're implying that I believe all UFOs are government projects. I do not. I believe that most of them are, or have the fingerprints of the government upon them, at least the ones in which an "object" is at the heart of the sighting. And I don't necessarily discount the possibility of reverse-engineering from alien tech, though I feel that to characterise this possibility as anything but conjecture is a step down a road to something other than analysis of the situation. What that "something other" is, is, to me, an important part of the question here posed by the OP.

I mean it's a relief to know! The idea that inter dimensional space aliens are actually gub'ment advanced projects is much easier to mentally entertain *whew*


I'm not certain about that, for several reasons. Maybe the idea that governments can produce articles of technology so far surpassng commonly understood paradigms points to a sector of humanity - the so-called "breakaway civilization" - which is so different from us that it can hardly be considered as the same species. Is there a part of the population with the technological means to advance beyond what we can reasonably consider as contiguous with ourselves?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species

In biology, a species is one of the basic units of biological classification and a taxonomic rank. A species is often defined as a group of organisms capable of interbreeding and producing fertile offspring. While in many cases this definition is adequate, more precise or differing measures are often used, such as similarity of DNA, morphology or ecological niche.


If the lights in the sky are really unknown earth technology, and are as advanced as the reports seem to quantify them, e.g., slow-moving anti-gravitational craft, miles long, able to instantaneously change direction, invisibility cloaking, etc....

Image

...then we have to come to terms with the fact that the persons behind this phenomena no longer occupy the identical ecological niche as ourselves. In other words, if the UFOs are largely earth-derived tech, then there is another, new and separate homind species co-existing with our own on earth.

It wouldn't be the first time, of course. In fact it would seem that paleoanthropology tells us rather explicitly that the normative biological situation on this planet for the last ten million years or so is exactly such a co-existence of hominan species. For a single humanoid life-form to dominate alone on earth is historically anomalous. And the idea is not reassuring.

But I want to return to the further implications of your statement:

8bitagent wrote: inter dimensional space aliens


Let's examine that - "interdimensional space aliens". By this you might mean any number of things, including a hypothesized race of sapient or non-sapient creatures which co-exist with us beyond our dimensional spectrum, and yet can have agency with our corporial realm. As attractive as such an idea is (?), what you really get with these IDSAs is a quasi-religion. Their boundaries of being conform to a variety of religious, godlike traits, such as super-human abilities, technology that appears to be magical or miraculous, existing in a realm beyond the ken of mere humans, watching events upon earth with an eye towards some higher, long-term purpose, etc.

Interdimensional space aliens, beyond their obvious job of acting as secular gods and ghosts, also serve the purpose here, in this mundane dimension, of selling books and website page-views. They are fun to think about, not scary. They populate fascinating tales of weird happenings, involving sex majickikk, space physicists and satanists. They leave Jack Sarfatti telephone messages, and poke Uri Gellar with disembodied hands. They are the tricksters, leprechans, fairies, Mexican gnomes and Lovecraftian archetypes we all know and love.

But what do you get from these guys in the end? With certain reservations, I'd say most analyses which confront IDSAs as anything but hypothetical conjecture are quasi-religious in nature. And this quasi-religious quality has something to do with the sad state of ufology in 2011. Whereas an analysis focusing upon nuts and bolts, black-op aspects of the phenomena has at least a tiny shard within it that examines the socio-political side of the thing. So I do tend to focus on that. But that hardly puts me in the same room as our friend Hugh.
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Re: Where is UFOlogy at in 2011?

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:56 pm

barracuda wrote:
Joe Hillshoist wrote:I see what you did there.


Me too. At least I think so, if I'm not being overly self-centered.


Maybe you are. I thought he was just pointing out that Hugh uses woo as a security blanket (see recent Huffpo thread) to avoid dealing with issues that may challenge his "CIA controls everything" worldview, and doing it quite cleverly I might add.
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Re: Where is UFOlogy at in 2011?

Postby Simulist » Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:01 pm

The CIA doesn't control everything.

But it gives 'em a giant* collective hard-on to have everyone thinking that they do.

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Re: Where is UFOlogy at in 2011?

Postby barracuda » Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:17 pm

Joe Hillshoist wrote:Maybe you are.


Ah well, it wouldn't be the first time. At least I had fun thinking about all that shit in response to an imaginary figment of my own conceit.

(see recent Huffpo thread)


Which is that?
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Re: Where is UFOlogy at in 2011?

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:17 am

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Re: Where is UFOlogy at in 2011?

Postby Avalon » Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:24 am

Couple of UFO deaths to report:

From Paul Kimball's blog: "Stuart Miller, former publisher of UFO Review (you can find a link to an old issue here) and Alien Worlds Magazine, and long-time contributor to UFO Updates and Errol Bruce-Knapp's radio show Strange Days Indeed, was killed in a tragic motorcycle accident in May....If I have a problem with Stuart, it’s that he's too modest (all of it genuine) about his own role in ufology. UFO Review is one of the best places to go for a comprehensive summary of the news of the day in the world of the paranormal, and his bi-monthly e-zine of the same name, which usually exceeds a hundred pages of content, is a must-read. His monthly UK reports on the Strange Days… Indeed radio show are always a good listen, and he’s to be commended for having the guts to put on a UFO conference at a time when attendance for conferences is down across the board. In short, he’s an important person within ufology, and makes, in his own way, a very significant and worthwhile contribution."

http://redstarfilms.blogspot.com/2011/08/stuart-miller-rip.html

I always found Stuart's writing to be smart, funny, and very grounded. He seemed to be pulling away from the UFO scene recently after his Alien Worlds magazine wasn't able to thrive.

Today the news comes of Budd Hopkins' death on Sunday, after several weeks of hospice care.

http://www.intrudersfoundation.org/inside.html
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