Saurian Tail wrote:JackRiddler wrote:Wombaticus Rex wrote:Marie Laveau wrote:Seriously? You think internet forums are going to change the world?
Well, your sincere optimism is quite charming.
I'm just saying, if you see all this as "yapping" the problem is on your end. There's a
lot of people here doing real, active work to change things. If the information you learn here is just doom porn, well, that's on you. There's a lot of ways to use a toaster: some of us take a bath with them. Some of us make breakfast.
Yes, this too.
So I don't know what your deal is Marie_Laveau, but I don't think you are going to find too many people here who are going to support your position of "It doesn't matter anyway" because that is in fact the primary meme of empire. My guess is that people are gonna keep calling you out on that as long as you keep spreading it around. Yapping about it is hopeless, technology is hopeless, radically simplicity is hopeless ... blah blah blah. Enough already.
By the way, the real Marie Laveau was known as "the queen of voodoo" if I recall correctly. Isn't that right?
-ST
Well, I wouldn't get my knickers in a knot over my internet handle. My middle name is Marie, and....well, that's about it, really. No sinister tinfoil involved.
And, for the record, technology IS hopeless. I'd read some Ran Prieur to get a good idea on that. Or Derrick Jensen.
Of course, my "it doesn't matter anyway" refrain means that there is a tipping point- ALWAYS- and I believe we've passed it, as do many other people. But it is the human condition to never give up. And there isn't anything wrong with that, obviously, but to expect that six+ billion people can figure out something to fix everything using the very technological ideology that got us here in the first place....well, I believe that is naive.
And, also, to think that we can figure something out that will by-pass mass die-off when most people don't even understand the not just critical, but ESSTENTIAL need for things like open-pollinated seeds and the understanding of how to save those seeds from year-to-year, and things like when winter comes and people are freezing you can't cut down the fruit trees just because you want to stay warm now, and the fact that you can have a hardware store full of shovels in January and if there isn't enough in the way of seeds (REAL seeds- not Burpees hybrid crap) to have starter plants in February and in-the-ground plants in March-June (depending upon where one lives) then it won't matter anyway.
And how are you going to keep 6+ billion people out of the garden when they are starving and try to tell them that they have to save a percentage of the garden for the seeds for next year? That ought to be something.
And that's just for starters. Yes, I have little optimism for humans to do anything but go on a rampage if TSHTF. A friend and I were driving through the mountains of my rural state with lots of cows, and I said, "How long do you think the cows would last if people needed to eat? And when everyone has a gun?" Answer: "About a week." People would be going nuts, shooting everything in sight. Much like the pioneers shot the bison and ate a small portion of it before it became rancid and rotted. Human nature hasn't changed much.
So, you can "call me out" if you'd like. I'd be happy to discuss some REAL solutions, but after years and years of studying this stuff, i.e., just how much ground and seeds and food it would take to keep "X" number of people alive....well, I'll give you an example: I have a friend in Colorado who got together with a group of folks who could see the handwriting on the wall. They live about 40 miles from Denver. It was a group of organic farmers, chemical engineers, etc. etc. They crunched all the numbers and realized without continued chemical input and A LOT more ground they couldn't even feed the people in their medium-sized city, let alone the millions in Denver.
Now, if you could persuade people to plant their yards in a garden (where would they get the seeds?) and I mean ALL the people- well, that might be different. Cuba is a good example. What do you suppose the chances are here in the good old U.S.ofA.?
Nonetheless, it is human nature to never give up. That is good. But if people don't want complete breakdown, there'd better be some serious education going on. As in last week.
