<5

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Re: <5

Postby BrandonD » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:30 am

Hi Mike welcome, I am new as well.

Mike_Cherni wrote:...
People dream 365 days per year. During a normal night of sleep, humans usually experience about four or five periods of REM sleep (3)


For whatever it's worth, I don't think it is true that human beings only dream in the REM stages of sleep. I think this is a persistent myth that was established in the early stages of sleep studies.

This is a subject of great personal interest to me, and for whatever it is worth I have personally verified that our dreams (whatever they are) are in fact taking place at all times whether awake or asleep, like heartbeat or respiration. We are generally not aware of these dreams during waking hours because of the dominance of our physical sensations. During sleep, the awareness of our physical sensations is greatly reduced (or removed altogether) and thus it is much easier to become aware of the dreams taking place.

Many people, because of various conditions, cannot sufficiently disconnect from their physical sensations until within full REM sleep. This is how I believe the myth that "one only dreams in REM" was established.

Anyway welcome, glad to know I'm not the only new guy.
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Re: <5

Postby justdrew » Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:01 am

it's basically for sure that dreaming can and does occur in non-REM sleep, including 'mentation' which while asleep is like dreaming, but it's just thinking, also rarely remembered. That dreams occur only in REM is one of those dogma's that set-in, despite evidence to the contrary all along.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_neuroscience_of_dreams#REM_sleep_and_dreaming
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Re: <5

Postby Mike_Cherni » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:54 am

.

Harvey wrote:As well as a large million year old freshwater lake stranded in the ice sheet, Lake Vostok boasts a distinct magnetic anomaly.

I'm very curious, what else?


I'm truly sorry, Harvey, but there is nothing else.

I have consistently dreamed that I sleep on the ice, just above lake vostok.

I don't know what the significance of that fact is.

May I inquire of the posters here, do you consistently dream of a single place?


________________________________________________________________________________


justdrew wrote:scan them to PDFs would be better and more standard. just make sure it's set for highres, your scanner software should be able to save as PDF directly, much better (and smaller) format for multipage things.


Thank you, I'll do it.

________________________________________________________________________________


Nordic wrote:people eiSpoiler:ther believe you or they don't.


My sincerest apologies, Nordic, for being so direct, but that answer is not acceptable to me.

I wish to be believed because I am telling the truth, verbatim, as it happened to me.

I don't want there to be even a shadow of a doubt that I am telling the truth.

/quote]

________________________________________________________________________________


82_28 wrote:With all due respect, spit it out Mike.


Hi "82_28. What is due respect? Is it respect that I am due without ever having earned it?

Further, there is nothing for me to "spit out".

I am slowly, deliberately thinking out loud about events that have occurred in my presence.

Nordic wrote:I'm sure you understand, that don't contribute to any other thread other than the one they started kinda are looked at askance.


Hi Nordic, I'm afraid I don't understand. Why does your post count matter?

82_28 wrote:You needn't be so enigmatic.


I know this sounds like a coy answer, but it's the God's honest truth.

What happened to me is incredibly enigmatic, imho.

Thus, my post style reflects my muddled mind and the enigmatic "events" of that day.

.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved
than those who falsely believe they are free."


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Re: <5

Postby 82_28 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:15 am

Mike, if you are here, then yes, you are due respect. Thus you have it. It isn't a test, just cut to the chase. What are we dealing with here as far as what you're bringing to the table? I think you've only followed-up-commented on this thread alone so far. Thus, seriously not being a dick, but what are we looking at here? What is at issue, besides dreams and sleeping difficulties?

Just say what's up. "Spit it out" like I said. Didn't mean it rudely, just cough it up. What's up, Mike? Where you at in your headspace about things? If you fancy yourself a member here, welcome at that, then why not cut to the chase for the rest of the membership of which you count yourself?

All of us want to know what you have to say. Soooo. . .
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Re: <5

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:54 am

82_28 wrote:Mike, if you are here, then yes, you are due respect. Thus you have it. It isn't a test, just cut to the chase. What are we dealing with here as far as what you're bringing to the table? I think you've only followed-up-commented on this thread alone so far. Thus, seriously not being a dick, but what are we looking at here? What is at issue, besides dreams and sleeping difficulties?

Just say what's up. "Spit it out" like I said. Didn't mean it rudely, just cough it up. What's up, Mike? Where you at in your headspace about things? If you fancy yourself a member here, welcome at that, then why not cut to the chase for the rest of the membership of which you count yourself?

All of us want to know what you have to say. Soooo. . .


thanks 82....I thought I was the only one that didn't get it.....and I'm the eternal seems like a dreamer here


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Re: <5

Postby ShinShinKid » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:09 pm

Mike, if I may ask, how did you know you were sleeping above Lake Vostok...was there a sign, overt, or covert...or do you just "know" intuitively...thus sparking a whole other host of questions...?
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Re: <5

Postby Peregrine » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:15 pm

Mike_Cherni wrote:May I inquire of the posters here, do you consistently dream of a single place?


Yes. I have recurring dreams constantly of a particular place, usually very lovely & it covers a large geographical area. I've never been there, but for some reason I "remember" it constantly in my dreams. For the last little while, particularly the last couple years, I've been putting a lot of credence in my dreams.

A shaman friend of mine told me that I am most likely visiting another plane she refers to as the Nagual, or a world of the non-material. I keep thinking for sure this place is real. I usually find that around my cycles, my dreams are much more intense & my experience in this place is much more vivid.

As of late, I have been having very caotic dreams of this place that is usually been peaceful & it's been building for the past 6 months I'd say. And funny enough, when my sleep patterns are off, the more chaos there is.



Mike_Cherni wrote:Thus, my post style reflects my muddled mind and the enigmatic "events" of that day.


I can understand the muddled mindset. Particularly if your sleep patterns are the way yours are. I cannot imagine. My sleep is very important to me & don't know what state I would be in if I had your condition.

However, this I find very interesting, particularly because I put so much credence in the dream world, I suppose:

Mike_Cherni wrote:.

Harvey wrote:As well as a large million year old freshwater lake stranded in the ice sheet, Lake Vostok boasts a distinct magnetic anomaly.

I'm very curious, what else?


I'm truly sorry, Harvey, but there is nothing else.

I have consistently dreamed that I sleep on the ice, just above lake vostok.

I don't know what the significance of that fact is.


I think you might want to investigate what that significance is, Mike, just my two bits. :basicsmile
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Re: <5

Postby Stephen Morgan » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:48 pm

I mostly dream about one place. But it's the place where I sleep. Always have done. My first memorable dream was of the room I was sleeping in.
Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible. -- Lawrence of Arabia
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Re: <5

Postby BrandonD » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:58 pm

Mike_Cherni wrote:.
May I inquire of the posters here, do you consistently dream of a single place?


Yes, my grandparent's house. There is no special significance to this house that I know of, I did not spend an inordinate amount of time there as a child, so I don't know why it figures so prominently in my dreams. But I find myself there very often.
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Re: <5

Postby compared2what? » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:24 pm

I like Mike Cherni.

Hey, Mike Cherni! I like you.

Also, he's now got an interesting and entertaining LinkedIn page. It appears either just to have gone up or been updated. I can't tell which. But since it states itself that it's gonna come down eventually and seemed to me to be destined for this thread sooner or later, I just went ahead and cooperatively copied it!

So here it is:

    Michael Cherni

    <3

    New York, New York (Greater New York City Area)
    Think Tanks

    Current

    Group Chief, Special Operations Division at (redacted)

    Past

    Partner at Illuminata
    Associate Partner, IMG at Integrated Media Group, under umbrella of Parrott & People
    Contract Corporate Security at Fitch Ratings

    see all
    Education

    NYU SCE

    Connections

    6 connections
    Websites

    SAIC: From Science to Solution

    Michael Cherni's Summary

    Tuesday, Dec 6, 2011:

    (redacted)

    - loosely speaking, is a think-tank.

    - due to our "open door" policy, we expect to be the largest think-tank in the world.

    - it's method of operation is distributed intelligence (DisTel), believing that 1+1=<3

    - it does and will employ all legal means to data mine mission critical intelligence.

    - unofficially, anyone can become a member, by simply declaring their membership to another person.

    - officially, another member must approach you and ask you to be a member. This will allow to access (redacted)s assets on an "as needed" basis.

    The organizational name is not: "(redacted)". It is not anything.

    (redacted) is simply a placeholder, no more

    ____________________________________________
    ____________________________________________

    Mission Statement:
    (as of Tuesday, Dec 6, 2011)

    We're not sure what this recently formed organization will do in the near future.

    We're not sure why we filled out a LinkedIn profile, or even if it was a mistake to do so.

    We are growing rapidly, adding members from around the world each day.

    We are trying to control that growth, but it is difficult as our raison d'être clearly resonates.

    We'd like this organization to become international, without the divisions of caste or class, and we'd like to help solve problems that might utilize our perspective.

    We hope to accomplish the above by employing distributed intelligence.

    We hope to maintain an invisible footprint. We don't want publicity of any kind.

    We are Off The Grid (OTG). We do not want to have a web presence, a telephone, a street address or an email.

    Indeed, this linked In page violates our MS, and ultimately will be struck down.

    We hope that in the end, we will make a difference for the better.
    Specialties

    We specialize in everything. There is nothing that we won't kibitz on. It's our greatest strength and our greatest failing.

    If you think you can help, or, if you just want to chew the fat, please contact us.
    Michael Cherni's Experience
    Group Chief, Special Operations Division
    (redacted)

    August 2011 – Present (5 months) NYC

    - Evangelizing distributed intelligence
    - Managing intelligence / evidence-based think-tank.
    - Fostering evidence-based decisions.
    - Cultivation of border-less talent pool, all walks of life, not just the local nomenklatura.
    - Overseeing long-term, humanistic solutions.
    - Direct Democracy
    - Crafting the perfect, knock-your-socks-off Mission Statement
    Partner
    Illuminata

    September 2001 – November 2011 (10 years 3 months) NYC 10011

    2008 to Present, responsible for:
    - Venture Capital allocation
    - Building "Intelligence" Brand & Franchise:
    i.e., BesTel, DisTel, MedTel, SigTel, etc.
    - Securing Fortune 500, Government and Military contracts

    ________________________________________________


    2001 to 2008 responsible for:
    - Real Time 3D & VR graphics development
    - Real Time Sound Design
    - Distributed Computing
    - Green Computing
    - Virtual & Cloud Computing
    - Cyber Digital Services
    - Cypher Digital Services
    Associate Partner, IMG
    Integrated Media Group, under umbrella of Parrott & People

    February 1986 – 2001 (15 years) 57 E 11, NYC

    Oversaw: Corporate and Government Media Services
    - High profile client management, including GM, NBC, PBS, Columbia Pictures
    - Personalities included Stevie Wonder, Bill Russel, Howard Rollins Jr., many others
    - Music, all phases, from inception to delivery
    - Music Scoring
    - Music Mixing
    - Sound Efx
    - Still Photography
    - Motion Picture and Video Sound Stage
    - Sound & Music Recording Studio
    TV & Film Production & Post Production, including one inch house
    - "The Boy King: The Martin Luther King Story"
    - Advertising
    - Minority Vendor
    Contract Corporate Security
    Fitch Ratings

    Privately Held; 1001-5000 employees; Financial Services industry

    1980 – 1987 (7 years) One State Street Plaza

    One State Street Plaza
    New York, NY 10004

    +1 212 908 0500

    Dual-headquartered in New York and London with 51 offices worldwide, Fitch Ratings is a global rating agency dedicated to providing value beyond the rating through independent and prospective credit opinions, research and data. Fitch Solutions provides a range of fixed-income products and professional development services to the global financial community.
    Partner
    Integrated Media Group

    January 1980 – 1986 (6 years) 634 Washington Street, NYC

    Junior Partner, kibitzing my betters in these (and other) areas:

    - Integrated Advertising: Print, Radio & TV
    - Music Recording, Music Scoring, Sound Effects, Sound Mixing, Sound Sweetening, Non Linear Video Editing
    - Product Design
    - Corporate and Government Media Services
    Associate Partner
    Sands Point News

    1975 – 1978 (3 years) Sands Point, NY

    - Fulfillment service to highest income clients in Long Island and New York Area.
    - Clients included major figures in entertainment, finance, investment banking, retailing, manufacturing, and aerospace.
    Michael Cherni's Skills

    Venture Capital
    Private Equity
    Management Consulting
    Business Strategy
    Strategic Planning
    Marketing Strategy
    Hedge Funds
    Start-ups
    Entrepreneur
    Analytics

    Michael Cherni's Languages

    English
    (Native or bilingual proficiency)
    Spanish
    (Limited working proficiency)
    French
    (Elementary proficiency)
    German
    (Elementary proficiency)
    Japanese
    (Elementary proficiency)
    Korean
    (Elementary proficiency)
    Chinese
    (Elementary proficiency)
    Russian
    (Elementary proficiency)
    Swahili
    (Elementary proficiency)
    Ebonics
    (Limited working proficiency)

    Michael Cherni's Education
    NYU SCE
    Film Studies

    1973

    Activities and Societies: Women's Studies
    Michael Cherni's Additional Information

    Websites:

    SAIC: From Science to Solution

    Interests:

    - The Signal - Signal Compliance - All Evidence-Based Scientific Disciplines - All forms of Art Film: Antonioni, Bergman, Bertolucci, Malick, Kubrick, Kurosawa, Romero, Wenders - All forms of Music: primitive to classical: Antony & the Johnsons, Samuel Barber, Chuck Berry, Beethoven, Johnny Cash, Leonard Cohen, didgeridoo, Doo-Wop, Alison Krause, Ennio Morricone, Hans Zimmer, Vaun Williams -Human Engineering Spectrum: subliminal to overt - Night time free-fall scuba diving - Poetry, Literature -Surfing the Deep Web / the Dark Web at night ___________________________________________________ Likes: Succinctness. Dislikes: Verbosity, People who say: "Knock your socks off!", or "Granularity", self-aggrandizing drama queens
    Groups and Associations:

    - PADI: Professional Association of Dive Instructors - National Association of The Penguins of Irony - Museum of Natural History - Air & Space Museum - The Back Room - Drink or Die

    Contact Michael for:

    career opportunities
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Re: <5

Postby compared2what? » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:26 pm

Shame about that verbosity thing.
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Re: <5

Postby justdrew » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:25 pm

Lake Vostok is surely a fascinating subject
fairly good background: http://www.damninteresting.com/raiders-of-the-lost-lake/

In January 2011 the Russian drill team was set to finally finish a project that's been ongoing since 1990. A method had been settled on that would (hopefully) guarantee no risk of contaminating the lake.

31 May 2007 | Report Offers Guidance on How to Safely Explore Vast Aquatic Systems Buried Under Antarctic Ice
05 January 2011 | Mysteries of Lake Vostok on brink of discovery
07 January 2011 | Drill Close to Reaching 14-Million-Year-Old Antarctic Lake
07 January 11 | Russian team prepares to penetrate Lake Vostok
11 February 2011 | Winter Halts Drilling Into 14-Million-Year-Old Lake ... quoting...
A Russian team searching for signs of life beneath a 14-million-year-old frozen Antarctic lake has had to halt drilling just a few meters from water, potentially damaging 20 years of work in the process.

The team — headed up by the Russian Arctic and Antarctic Research Institute in St. Petersburg — had to call off work just 29 meters [95-foot] short of the end goal because the Antarctic winter is fast closing in. News that they plan to fill the 3,749-meter [12,300-foot] borehole with kerosene to prevent it from freezing will further trouble groups who fear continued research will contaminate the lake.

Alexei Turkeyev, chief of the Russian-run Vostok Station, told Reuters on Feb. 4: “It’s minus-40 [degrees Celsius, which happens to equal minus-40 Fahrenheit] outside. But whatever, we’re working. We’re feeling good.” Unfortunately Turkeyev and his team were forced to pack up last-minute amid fears they would be stranded. Temperatures above Lake Vostok fall to as low as 89 degrees below zero Celsius [minus 128 degrees Fahrenheit] during winter, the coldest recorded natural temperature on Earth.

Image

and that 11Feb2011 story is the last we've heard of it in any news stories. "summer" should have started in October, we should have heard "something" by now.
http://www.aari.nw.ru/index_en.html

No word whatsoever on the NASA plan to use a Cryobot to explore Lake Vostok. Though this was much written about years ago. Cryobots are not a new technology. Been around since the 60s.


from the last listed article...
“It’s like exploring an alien planet where no one has been before,” said Valery Lukin of the Arctic and Antarctic Research told Reuters. “We don’t know what we’ll find.”


maybe it's a dream way of giving a "portent of change" - symbolically an expression of anxiety of your sleep troubles (which so many people are experiencing these days) - - - Wait... You're sleeping in a dream? Don't think I've ever dreamed I was sleeping before! What if you have a dream inside the dream? :? :wink:

try to go lucid?
Last edited by justdrew on Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:52 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: <5

Postby NeonLX » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:35 pm

I actually did dream that I was asleep and dreaming inside of that dream sleep. I was staying at my grandmother's house when it happened...and in the dream, I was dreaming that I was sleeping/dreaming at her place, too. I have a vivid memory of it, even though it happened at least 40 years ago.
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Re: <5

Postby barracuda » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:36 pm

Mike_Cherni wrote:May I inquire of the posters here, do you consistently dream of a single place?


I've outlined a fairly detailed series of incidents which happened in my personal dream-place in this thread.
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Re: <5

Postby barracuda » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:44 pm

compared2what? wrote:Shame about that verbosity thing.


No doubt. And the proscription against "self-aggrandising drama queens" kinda puts me out of the running for a much-hoped-for networking with the fellows at SAIC. Oh well.

    Possible precognitive messaging arising from synamorphic analogues in the visual variations germinated from an image of a duck.

    1. Look-a-likes

    Things are similar to other things, they look like other things. There exist infinite classes of things which look much like one another, and a continuum of objects which move towards and away from ideal resemblance. These resemblances inhabit spectrums of variety, complexity, and nearness or completeness to ideal similarity. Two coins of the same denomination, date and condition may be virtually indistinguishable from one another no matter how familiar the viewer is with the two objects. In fact one may not, without some form of imposed marking or index, be able to tell them apart at all. They are then, interchangable within the catalog of objects one encounters - for most purposes, identical, and if no reason exists to do otherwise, they will be treated as such, both within the context of memory and external world reality. If we need a dime, we reach in our pocket, pull out a handful of coins and choose any of the very nearly identical members of the class of dimes from our choices mostly without care for discrimination.

    There are also objects which contain visual aspects which are nearly duplicate in some degree or aspect. If encountered in a reductive manner, the silhouette of a coin and that of a basketball or a hubcap are near perfect analogues of roundness. Without further clues, these objects might be indistiguishable, or mistaken one for the other, or at the very least overlayed perfectly one upon the other if properly aligned within the framework of the rules of representative perspective.

    2. Pattern overlay

    Consciousness is basically a persistent overlay of consecutive visual afterimages consisting of the world-bubble which surrounds us at each mind-moment. This is an artifact of the highly visual evolution of the brain, which not only can store each of these extremely complex bubble images, but is optimised to do so to the exclusion of nearly all other sensory inputs. Naturally, the experience of your surroundings in this way lags behind actual events some measurable amount, but generally, this lag is small enough to permit reaction, registration and accuracy of mobile responses. There are other, co-incident spheres of input: the aural bubble, the olfactory bubble, the "feeling" bubble, and the prioperceptive amalgam, among others. But the visual has primacy. Mentation, mentioned by justdrew above, is the percolation of the symbolic language which allows for communication and organisation of the subsequent decisions.

    Each world-bubble is extremely similar to the ones before and after it, just as each frame of a film is extremely similar to those on either side of it. The appearance of continuous reality is a result of a continual pattern overlay and shape-to-shape similarity matching performed at staggering pprocessing speeds, billions of moments per second of consciousness.This overlay must be accelerated a small amount through the blending ability of anticipatory thought invention, which, like an in-betweener in the field of cel animation, automatically traces the logical series from one frame of major action to the next.

    3. Data churn within the brute-force attack of object resolving within recognition decision-making

    So behind the skein of flickering visual representation and pattern contiguence which makes up consciousness, re-cognition of objects within the visual field is happening virtually within each moment on the smallest time frame allowable by the system. Each object within the world-bubble is compared in a brute-force attack to every other object stored in memory, primarily as a rough visual contour or outline to determine the degree of familiarity to previously stored information. Incongruities are discarded en mass, and similarities retained for further comparative processing and analysis. This process, bulky though it may sound, streamlines the scope of recognition considerably, for their are in reality fewer rough configurations than it might seem, and once a pattern match is acheived, the mind can hold onto that recognition as long as the particular object is in the visual field. If the object leaves the visual field for just long enough, the mind experiences a sort of re-recognition with each new aquaintance, and the slight shock resulting from a pattern match can be felt over and over again. This slight shock of the nervous system from recognition moment to recognition moment is an integral part of the feeling of being alive at all.

    This brute force attack is only possible due to the huge number of dynamic synaptic connections throughour the brain, though it would seem to be a probable factor in the sensory apparatus of all decision-making creatures.

    Each decision is a result of the analysis of these vast comparative processes, and within the range of these decisions are a varying degree of accuracy. This fudge factor results in any number of anomalous perceptions, such as paradoilia, optical illusions, and mistaken recognitions of all sorts. The sorting out of the illusions and errors is the action of truth seeking in its most basic form, and the recognition of truth creates another shade to the gradient of human consciousness.

    4. The duck

    Let's say you encounter a duck within your visual field:

    Image

    Your brain forces a series of images to overlay the duck, in a desperate attempt to make sense of the meaningless chaotic form presented from the raw data influx. Perhaps it overlays a partial face:

    Image

    And then subsequently overlays perhaps a strangely shaped ink spill, or some fragment of the oddly shaped tentacles of an octopus. Each iteration combines with the existing contour data to re-establish varying degrees of familiarity and isomorphism to allow for recognition and decision making to occur. However, the panopoly of overlaiden image artifacts bleed into one another, forcing by combination and slight errors novel ideas to surface, still chained to the pre-existing clade mesh, but fanning out in a creative blossom of churning mandala imageries.

    Image

    This potpourri of fleeting combinations persists even in the presence of a pronounced quacking noise.

    5. Visual iterations in the dream state and their similarities with external event-objects

    The ability of the mind to reconfigure the world-bubble for novel representation within the dream state is a residual feature of human awareness. The dream exercises the pattern overlay processes to fine tune their accuracy for the waking existence by allowing a free exchange of these overlays, all of which are remnants of persistent visual cues from actual input. There are no mental images which are truely novel, just as there is no true invention in dreams, but merely the recombination of artifacts, no matter how disparate or shocking. Each and every image and item in the dream world has its relevant synamorph in the catalog of visual experience compiled during waking life. That is to say, a characteristic of the dream object is obtained by reference to an ancestor among the stored memories of the sensory world bubble clades generated by actual visual perception.

    5. Probability and the foreseeable future

    The sheer volume of anticipatory visual iterations produced in the brain in order to create recognition amongst highly similar contours produces an effect in which precognitive artifacts are of necessity realised as a distinct subset of all the churned data. Our truth-seeking faculties can make approximate and exacting contrasts to events which we have anticipated - those events stand out from the froth of all imagined events present in the dream overlays, and tip forward to the furthest reaches of our anticipatory abilities, even into the realm of the actual events of the real world.

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