Page 1 of 5

Cardinal 'claimed pope to die'

PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:07 pm
by Jeff
Cardinal 'claimed pope to die'

PADDY AGNEW in Rome
Feb 10

CARDINAL PAOLO Romeo of Palermo, Sicily, is reported to have predicted Pope Benedict XVI would die, and not necessarily peacefully, by November.

This seemingly far-fetched story was published yesterday by Il Fatto Quotidiano , a leftist newspaper which, while no great friend of Benedict or the Catholic Church, is a reliable news source.

The paper claims to have a document delivered to Benedict last month, outlining details of this bizarre tale, by the ultra-conservative Cardinal Darío Castrillón Hoyos, who claims to have received it from Beijing, via Chinese contacts and Italian businessmen based in China.

These informants told Cardinal Hoyos that, during a visit to China last November, Cardinal Romeo predicted the pope would be dead by November 2012 and would be replaced by Cardinal Angelo Scola, the Archbishop of Milan.

Vatican spokesman Fr Federico Lombardi and Cardinal Romeo both dismissed the story.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/wor ... 25010.html

Vatican denies rumours of plot to kill Pope

Image
The Italian newspaper "Il Fatto Quotidiano" with the headline: "Vatican, plot and villainy"; "Plot against the Pope. He will die in the next 12 months."

The Vatican is vehemently denying a newspaper report of a document spelling out a plot to assassinate Pope Benedict XVI by November.

The Italian newspaper Il Fatto Quotidiano on Friday published what it called a “top secret confidential” document written in German about a cardinal’s conversation in China that was delivered to Benedict by Colombian Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos last month.

The “death plot” document, the newspaper said, provides details of an alarming conversation Cardinal Paolo Romeo, the archbishop of Palermo, had during a visit to Beijing.

Romeo told his hosts last November the Benedict would be dead by November 2012, the document alleged.

The Palermo archbishop also described bitter infighting around Benedict, the document alleged. In particular, the pontiff was supposedly upset with his secretary of state, Tarcisio Bertone.

Il Fatto Quotidiano speculated the timing of the document’s release was to rip open the internal wounds inside the Vatican.

“These are clearly ravings, which are not at all taken seriously. I will not even consider it,” Father Federico Lombardi, the director of the Vatican Press Office, told the newspaper.

The document was written in German, the newspaper said, so it could be read by Benedict himself and as few people as possible inside the Vatican.

...


http://www.thestar.com/news/world/artic ... -kill-pope

Re: Cardinal 'claimed pope to die'

PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:38 pm
by jingofever
Some background, maybe:

Vatican besieged by leaks, conspiracies.

Transfer of Vatican Official Who Exposed Corruption Hints at Power Struggle.

The Telegraph says:

Cardinal Romeo reportedly made the startling prediction of the Pope's death during a trip to China in November 2011.

He seemed so sure of the fact that the people he spoke with, including Italian businessmen and Chinese representatives of the Catholic Church, were convinced that he was talking about an assassination attempt.

They were so alarmed by his remarks that they reported them back to the Vatican.

Was he simply predicting that since the Pope is old and frail he will probably be dead soon? Or is he the most amateur assassin? Or was giving a message to the Pope, confidant that these gossips would report his prediction to the Vatican?

Re: Cardinal 'claimed pope to die'

PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:06 pm
by Sepka
Honestly, he looks like he's going to topple over dead any second. On the other paw, he's looked that way for the past five years or so...

Re: Cardinal 'claimed pope to die'

PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:36 pm
by Simulist
Cardinal 'claimed pope to die'

PADDY AGNEW in Rome
Feb 10

CARDINAL PAOLO Romeo of Palermo, Sicily, is reported to have predicted Pope Benedict XVI would die, and not necessarily peacefully, by November.

This seemingly far-fetched story was published yesterday by Il Fatto Quotidiano , a leftist newspaper which, while no great friend of Benedict or the Catholic Church, is a reliable news source.

They might be reliable, but old Eggs Benedict has put on a few "holy" pounds since his installation, and Il Fatto probably just left off the "t": Cardinal Claimed Pope to Diet.

Seriously, I don't want to see anybody murdered, but I really wouldn't take a bullet to save his ass.

Re: Cardinal 'claimed pope to die'

PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:14 am
by peartreed
Time to review the Saint Malachy prophecies of the Popes. We're apparently enjoying the second to last papal succession.

http://www.theworkofgod.org/Pope/saint_ ... hecies.htm

peartreed

Re: Cardinal 'claimed pope to die'

PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:02 am
by Allegro
peartreed wrote:Time to review the Saint Malachy prophecies of the Popes. We're apparently enjoying the second to last papal succession.

http://www.theworkofgod.org/Pope/saint_ ... hecies.htm

peartreed
Here is one fwiw sorta thing. Not remembering his name right now, but I heard a few years back, on some Internet talk show, an astro-theologian who made a remark such as: the current pope will be a tempest-in-a-tea-cup compared to the next. I think a similar inference is assumed on the page above linked by peartreed.

Re: Cardinal 'claimed pope to die'

PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:13 am
by Simulist
Allegro wrote:Here is one fwiw sorta thing. Not remembering his name right now, but I heard a few years back, on some Internet talk show, an astro-theologian who made a remark such as: the current pope will be a tempest-in-a-tea-cup compared to the next. I think a similar inference is assumed on the page above linked by peartreed.

Was that possibly a repeat of Art Bell interviewing Malachi Martin on Coast to Coast AM? If so, I'm pretty sure I listened to the same show.

Re: Cardinal 'claimed pope to die'

PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:29 pm
by Allegro
Simulist wrote:
Allegro wrote:Here is one fwiw sorta thing. Not remembering his name right now, but I heard a few years back, on some Internet talk show, an astro-theologian who made a remark such as: the current pope will be a tempest-in-a-tea-cup compared to the next. I think a similar inference is assumed on the page above linked by peartreed.
Was that possibly a repeat of Art Bell interviewing Malachi Martin on Coast to Coast AM? If so, I'm pretty sure I listened to the same show.
It wasn’t Martin I heard. The guy’s name is John Hogue, probably 40ish, who calls himself a “rogue” scholar. He’s not a theologian as I had thought, and I remember listening to an interview of him only one time for information wrt Nostradamus.

Looking at his web site just now, Hogue writes astrological-based commentaries, weaving world catastrophes, politics, history, religion, weather, etc., into prophecies. I wouldn’t present Hogue as a prospect for RI readers and researchers because I’ve not followed his work.

Re: Cardinal 'claimed pope to die'

PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:39 pm
by Simulist
Thanks, Allegro. I remember John Hogue from back when I used to listen to Whitley Strieber's Dreamland.

Re: Cardinal 'claimed pope to die'

PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:58 pm
by NaturalMystik
Someone already beat me to it, but when I just saw this thread I was immediately reminded of how if the papal prophecies are legit, we are on our second last pope and it would be a very short lived appointment... Interesting!

Re: Cardinal 'claimed pope to die'

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:52 pm
by justdrew
"Monsignors' mutiny" revealed by Vatican leaks
By Philip Pullella | VATICAN CITY | Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:37pm IST

(Reuters) - Call it Conspiracy City. Call it Scandal City. Call it Leak City. These days the holy city has been in the news for anything but holy reasons.

"It is a total mess," said one high-ranking Vatican official who spoke, like all others, on the condition of anonymity.

The Machiavellian manoeuvring and machinations that have come to light in the Vatican recently are worthy of a novel about a sinister power struggle at a mediaeval court.

Senior church officials interviewed this month said almost daily embarrassments that have put the Vatican on the defensive could force Pope Benedict to act to clean up the image of its administration - at a time when the church faces a deeper crisis of authority and relevance in the wider world.

Some of those sources said the outcome of a power struggle inside the Holy See may even have a longer-term effect, on the choice of the man to succeed Benedict when he dies.

From leaked letters by an archbishop who was transferred after he blew the whistle on what he saw as a web of corruption and cronyism, to a leaked poison pen memo which puts a number of cardinals in a bad light, to new suspicions about its bank, Vatican spokesmen have had their work cut out responding.

The flurry of leaks has come at an embarrassing time - just before a usually joyful ceremony this week known as a consistory, when Benedict will admit more prelates into the College of Cardinals, the exclusive men's club that will one day pick the next Roman Catholic leader from among their own ranks.

"This consistory will be taking place in an atmosphere that is certainly not very glorious or exalting," said one bishop with direct knowledge of Vatican affairs.

The sources agreed that the leaks were part of an internal campaign - a sort of "mutiny of the monsignors" - against the pope's right-hand man, Secretary of State Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone.

Bertone, 77, has a reputation as a heavy-handed administrator and power-broker whose style has alienated many in the Curia, the bureaucracy that runs the central administration of the 1.3 billion-strong Roman Catholic Church.

He came to the job, traditionally occupied by a career diplomat, in 2006 with no experience of working in the church's diplomatic corps, which manages its international relations. Benedict chose him, rather, because he had worked under the future pontiff, then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, in the Vatican's powerful doctrinal office.

"It's all aimed at Bertone," said a monsignor in a key Vatican department who sympathises with the secretary of state and who sees the leakers as determined to oust him. "It's very clear that they want to get rid of Bertone."

Vatican sources say the rebels have the tacit backing of a former secretary of state, Cardinal Angelo Sodano, an influential power-broker in his own right and a veteran diplomat who served under the late Pope John Paul II for 15 years.

"The diplomatic wing feels that they are the rightful owners of the Vatican," the monsignor who favours Bertone said.

Sodano and Bertone are not mutual admirers, to put it mildly. Neither has commented publicly on the reports.

WHISTLE-BLOWING ARCHBISHOP

The Vatican has been no stranger to controversy in recent years, when uproar over its handling of child sex abuse charges has hampered the church's efforts to stem the erosion of congregations and priestly recruitment in the developed world.

But the latest image crisis could not be closer to home.

It began last month when an Italian television investigative show broadcast private letters to Bertone and the pope from Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano, the former deputy governor of the Vatican City and currently the Vatican ambassador in Washington.

The letters, which the Vatican has confirmed are authentic, showed that Vigano was transferred after he exposed what he argued was a web of corruption, nepotism and cronyism linked to the awarding of contracts to contractors at inflated prices.

As deputy governor of the Vatican City for two years from 2009 to 2011, Vigano was the number two official in a department responsible for maintaining the tiny city-state's gardens, buildings, streets, museums and other infrastructure, which are managed separately from the Italian capital which surrounds it.

In one letter, Vigano writes of a smear campaign against him by other Vatican officials who were upset that he had taken drastic steps to clean up the purchasing procedures and begged to stay in the job to finish what he had started.

Bertone responded by removing Vigano from his position three years before the end of his tenure and sending him to the United States, despite his strong resistance.

Other leaks centre on the Vatican bank, just as it is trying to put behind it past scandals - including the collapse 30 years ago of Banco Ambrosiano, which entangled it in lurid allegations about money-laundering, freemasons, mafiosi and the mysterious death of Ambrosiano chairman Roberto Calvi - "God's banker".

Today, the Vatican bank, formally known at the Institute for Works of Religion (IOR), is aiming to comply fully with international norms and has applied for the Vatican's inclusion on the European Commission's approved "white list" of states that meet EU standards for total financial transparency.

Bertone was instrumental in putting the bank's current executives in place and any lingering suspicion about it reflects badly on him. The Commission will decide in June and failure to make the list would be an embarrassment for Bertone.

ITALIAN POPE?

Last week, an Italian newspaper that has published some of the leaks ran a bizarre internal Vatican memo that involved one cardinal complaining about another cardinal who spoke about a possible assassination attempt against the pope within 12 months and openly speculated on who the next pope should be.

Bertone's detractors say he has packed the Curia with Italian friends. Some see an attempt to influence the election of the next pope and increase the chances that the papacy returns to Italy after two successive non-Italian popes who have broken what had been an Italian monopoly for over 450 years.

Seven of the 18 new "cardinal electors" -- those aged under 80 eligible to elect a pope -- at this Saturday's consistory are Italian. Six of those work for Bertone in the Curia.

Bertone, as chief administrator, had a key role in advising the pope on the appointments, which raised eyebrows because of the high number of Italian bureaucrats among them.

"There is widespread malaise and delusion about Bertone inside the Curia. It is full of complaints," said the bishop who has close knowledge of Vatican affairs.

"Bertone has had a very brash method of running the Vatican and putting his friends in high places. People could not take it any more and said 'enough' and that is why I think these leaks are coming out now to make him look bad," he said.

POPE "ISOLATED"

Leaked confidential cables sent to the State Department by the U.S. embassy to the Vatican depicted him as a "yes man" with no diplomatic experience or linguistic skills and the 2009 cable suggests that the pope is protected from bad news.

"There is also the question of who, if anyone, brings dissenting views to the pope's attention," read the cable, published by WikiLeaks.

The Vatican sources said some cardinals asked the pope to replace Bertone because of administrative lapses, including the failure to warn the pope that a renegade bishop re-admitted to the Church in 2009 was a well-known Holocaust denier.

But they said the pope, at 84 and increasingly showing the signs of his age, is not eager to break in a new right-hand man.

"It's so complicated and the pope is so helpless," said the monsignor.

The bishop said: "The pope is very isolated. He lives in his own world and some say the information he receives is filtered. He is interested in his books and his sermons but he is not very interested in government."

Re: Cardinal 'claimed pope to die'

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:42 am
by cptmarginal
I was going to say that this would probably fit somewhere in the "How does Gladio extend into the present day?" thread even before reading this part of the article:

Other leaks centre on the Vatican bank, just as it is trying to put behind it past scandals - including the collapse 30 years ago of Banco Ambrosiano, which entangled it in lurid allegations about money-laundering, freemasons, mafiosi and the mysterious death of Ambrosiano chairman Roberto Calvi - "God's banker".

Today, the Vatican bank, formally known at the Institute for Works of Religion (IOR), is aiming to comply fully with international norms and has applied for the Vatican's inclusion on the European Commission's approved "white list" of states that meet EU standards for total financial transparency.

Bertone was instrumental in putting the bank's current executives in place and any lingering suspicion about it reflects badly on him. The Commission will decide in June and failure to make the list would be an embarrassment for Bertone.


http://www.catholicculture.org/news/hea ... ryid=13341

Still more news leaks: airing of confidential documents bedevils Vatican

Just a day after the director of the Vatican press office released an unusual statement responding to leaked internal documents, the release of still more confidential information added to the Vatican’s embarrassment.

The most recent leaks, published by Il Fatto Quotidiano, included a memo in which Cardinal Attilio Nicora, the head of the Vatican’s newly created Financial Information Authority, complained that the recent changes in Vatican rules for financial transfers may not go far enough to satisfy the concerns of Italian bank regulators. Cardinal Nicora said that loopholes in the Vatican’s regulations could “create serious alarm in the international community, as well as among international anti-money laundering organizations.”

Cardinal Nicora’s worries--expressed in a memo that was addressed to both the head of the Vatican bank and the Secretary of State, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone—are particularly damaging because the Vatican has been struggling to fend off reports of financial mismanagement. The new leaks also renew concerns that Cardinal Bertone is facing serious internal opposition among Vatican officials.

Father Federico Lombardi, the director of the Vatican press office, had decried earlier leaks in a February 14 statement. "There is something very sad in the fact that documents are dishonestly passed from the inside to the outside in order to create confusion,” he said. The Vatican spokesman denied that the leaks are evidence of an escalating conflict within the Vatican, which some Italian journalists have characterized as a “mutiny of the monsignors.”

The Vatican newspaper, in a February 14 article about the 30 years that Pope Benedict XVI has spent at the Vatican, mentioned that the Pontiff “is not stopped by wolves.” When asked whether the “wolves” in question included those who had leaked documents, one anonymous “senior Vatican official” told the Reuters news service: “They certainly are not boy scouts.”


It'd be really interesting to know what was going on behind the scenes, considering how extensive the revelations were after the Calvi business. Last time we got to glance into the Vatican's black box, the IOR appeared to be entangled in covert operations around the globe...

Re: Cardinal 'claimed pope to die'

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:16 am
by The Consul
I think of Oskar Werner in "The Shoes of the Fisherman." Those eyes that seem to recognize the wealth of human sorrow, those lips that find courage in pity, the countenance of face beholding the arc of human existence in all its glorious terpitude. I think of a boy caught up by the river that roared him with millions of other boys to the steel warm bossom of Der Fuhrer, come to murder the Fatherland.

I dig my clay from the garden of a dreaming child. There is no one I can hurt, there is no one I can't help. Chagal made my heart right before he died, and put it in a little box and whispered to me as the flood broke all words are prayers, colors are the genius of the soul longing to love the world. With the moon we have, we might be the only ones who can see them.

Kings and popes, do they ever shed but tears of rage? Bondage by gold and the art of high deceit. Ashen crosses drawn on our heads, silk ribboned candles crossed at our throat, Jesus stripped down to the ninety six wounds, and every week out go the boxes, one by one, into the hearses that roll as silent as a pressed leaves past the dogs who stand to smell the dead. I dig my clay from the garden of a sleeping child where there are no Fuhrers and there are no popes.

I dig my clay from the garden of a sleeping child
where everything is holy and there are no gods

Re: Cardinal 'claimed pope to die'

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:29 am
by AhabsOtherLeg
I vote The Consul for next Pope. He might not want the job, but he'd be better at it (probably for that very reason).

Re: Cardinal 'claimed pope to die'

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:22 am
by NeonLX
AhabsOtherLeg wrote:I vote The Consul for next Pope. He might not want the job, but he'd be better at it (probably for that very reason).


Seconded. :yay