Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmon

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Re: Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmo

Postby Searcher08 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:15 pm

:)
<Brawndo> Sooooooo... Atzmon is a booger?
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Re: Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmo

Postby American Dream » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:17 pm

compared2what? wrote:
Simulist wrote:
Iamwhomiam wrote:Thanks, Simulist, but I'm still confused wondering if Atzman's a Mo agent working to further the interests of the Israeli state or whether he actually loathes his government for its many illegal, oppressive and deadly acts.

It may not be possible to know this conclusively. But whatever the reasons prompting Gilad Atzmon's hate bait, I want nothing whatsoever to do with him.


Agreed. It can't be known. But it really and truly doesn't matter. He's such an absolute liability to the cause of those who do oppose his government's many illegal, oppressive and deadly acts that he might as well be actively supporting them. That's been brought to his attention by activists/advocates of unquestioned conviction and sterling repute. And he blew it off completely. So either his judgment's untrustworthy. Or he is. End of story.

Except, of course, that there's evidently nothing anyone can say or do that will persuade Alice to be wary of the Israeli Jew. But, you know. Every cloud has a silver lining.

He's the embodiment of the With Friends Like These, Who Needs Enemies? principle...

Whether he is working for the Mossad (and/or CIA), we may never know- but he's certainly helping them out, not helping organizing efforts like BDS...
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Re: Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmo

Postby Simulist » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:19 pm

Searcher08 wrote::)
<Brawndo> Sooooooo... Atzmon is a booger?

Certainly not in a literal sense, because Atzmon's liability to his own stated cause is really nothing to sneeze at.
"The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate, independent, and isolated ego."
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Re: Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmo

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:56 pm

Thanks, Joe, but that really doesn't help me very much.

Congratulations on the birth of your child. I wish you all Blessings, Peace and Love.


yeah I know, I was just being a dick. Thanks for the good wishes tho.

Iamwhomiam wrote:Thanks, Simulist, but I'm still confused wondering if Atzman's a Mo agent working to further the interests of the Israeli state or whether he actually loathes his government for its many illegal, oppressive and deadly acts.


It doesn't really matter does it? Its probable that he loathes his govt and is traumatised by his experiences in the IDF during the invasion of lebanon in '82.

What I find interesting are Atzmon's comments here, as they don't quite gel with some of the other stuff he has said.

As’ad AbuKhalil has now completed his transformation into a honorary Sabbath Goy. [1] The ‘angry’ man has finally joined the Anti Zionist Zionists (AZZ) and like his Jewish Marxists allies, he insists upon my rejection from the Palestinian solidarity movement. For him, I am not Kosher enough.

As’ad AbuKhalil aka the Angry Arab @angryarabnews


I must say though that judging by the level of circulation of my writing and my latest book The Wandering Who, it seems as if my views are actually far more popular than angry AbuKalil and his AZZ comrades put together.

Also my current coast to coast American tour is supported by the leading Palestinian solidarity organisations in this country such as The Washington Report, The Global March to Jerusalem, One Democratic State (Texas), Students for Justice in Palestine, Deir Yassin Remembered and many more.


As if this is not enough, my latest book is endorsed by the greatest intellectuals and humanist in this movement, isn’t this enough to make me into a kosher candidate? And if not what else do I need to prove my? Do I also need a Jewish Marxist Advocate?
But far more concerning is AZZ AbuKhalil’s intellectual approach to the matter. It seems as if AbuKhalil didn’t read a single text by me. He accuses me of being an ‘anti semite’ and for using “offensive language against Judaism and Jews”.

In spite of Angry AbuKhalil being an academic, he fails to substantiate any of these attributions. Those who are familiar with my thoughts and writing know very well that I am actually a supporter of Judaism and I also refrain from any criticism of Jews as people, race, or ethnicity. I am indeed critical of Jewish ideology, culture and identitypolitics. I believe that this is my duty as a humanist and anti racist.

Why is Angry AbuKhalil mistaken here, is it because he is misinformed? Is it because he is supported solely by the Jewish ‘anti’ Zionist lobby being their token Arab?

I honesty don’t know, I will let you make up your mind…


http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/ ... arabq.html

Perhaps he could be taken at his word, and that some of the wild stuff he says that appears racist, or fascist is just appearing that way cos of noise entering the communication system. I dunno.
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Re: Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmo

Postby compared2what? » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:12 am

Are you kidding?

Gilad Atzmon just called a Lebanese pro-Palestinian activist who's never done anything worse than sign a letter decrying the damage Atzmon's anti-"zionism" does to the pro-Palestinian cause -- and please note, that's the damage it does to the pro-Palestinian cause not the damage it does to zionists -- a token Arab and shill for Jewish Marxists.

I mean, yes, he had to branch out a little bit. But that's only because he couldn't deflect by saying the guy was obviously just another Jew whose problem is that he thinks he's beyond criticism.

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He really is a caricature.
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Re: Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmo

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:20 am

Yes C2W I know, but I was trying to be a bit non judgemental so people could make up their own minds. Atzmon's also allowed posts on his website accusing AbuKhalil of being a racist cos he criticizes some westerners FWIW.



BTW Nice to see you posting again.
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Re: Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmo

Postby compared2what? » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:27 am

I mean, Joe. Seriously:

Atzmon wrote:In spite of Angry AbuKhalil being an academic, he fails to substantiate any of these attributions.


As he knows perfectly well, the man is a signatory to a letter that fully substantiates them.

Atzmon wrote:Why is Angry AbuKhalil mistaken here, is it because he is misinformed? Is it because he is supported solely by the Jewish ‘anti’ Zionist lobby being their token Arab?


Now THAT'S what I'd call unsubstantiated.

Atzmon wrote:I honestly don’t know, I will let you make up your mind…


Right.
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Re: Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmo

Postby compared2what? » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:35 am

Joe Hillshoist wrote:Yes C2W I know, but I was trying to be a bit non judgemental so people could make up their own minds. Atzmon's also allowed posts on his website accusing AbuKhalil of being a racist cos he criticizes some westerners FWIW.


Of course he has. They might notice he was the only Jew in the room and that he didn't appear to be taking criticism too well if he didn't.

BTW Nice to see you posting again.


You should not be saying that to me. I should be saying that to you.

:lovehearts: :lovehearts: :lovehearts: :lovehearts: :lovehearts:
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Re: Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmo

Postby AlicetheKurious » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:06 am

compared2what? wrote:Atzmon expresses his views almost exclusively in terms coined and used by fascists, nazis, white supremacists and other very extreme and reactionary right-wing groups. And that's as consistently true for the content of what he writes as it is for the structure of what he writes as it is for the buzzwords and vocabulary he employs when writing it.

If he only did that once (or, ftm, even every now and again within limited parameters), I might or might think it was significant. But that's purely a hypothetical question in this instance. Because he always does it, unfailingly. Only nazis, fascists and white supremacists always and unfailingly use the terminology of very extreme and reactionary right-wing propaganda when talking about Jews. For the obvious reasons.


They're only "obvious" if you, deliberately or not, misinterpret what he's saying. One of Atzmon's main arguments is that zionists and those who claim to represent Jews are very bad for Jewish people, and everyone else, because:

While portraying themselves as fighters of "anti-semitism", they act as though their real mission is to confirm every worst stereotype about Jews. Their cruelest, most indefensible crimes, their financial shenanigans, their bloodthirsty demand for war, war, war, they deliberately commit as Jews, in the name of the Jewish people, and cynically incorporating as many "Jewish" symbols as they can. Then they use the hostility that their own actions generate, to demonstrate how impossible it is to eradicate anti-semitism, and thereby entrench their own power and control over ordinary Jewish people, whom they exploit for their own selfish gain.

That makes Atzmon very angry, because it's a con, a scam. Atzmon uses those "buzzwords" to expose what they're doing, and it's entirely appropriate. He wants people to call them out, and for Jews to disassociate themselves from these people, so that they can be held accountable for what they do on its own terms. He wants the Jewish people to relieve themselves of the burden of having to defend the indefensible, of acting as human shields for these criminals, on the basis of some artificial tribal loyalty fabricated for just this purpose.

compared2what? wrote:He's advocating for the mass extinction of Jews on "racial" grounds in the same customary and long-familiar coded terms that everybody who seeks that end has always used.


That's so wacky it's hard to believe you wrote that. This is a guy who's saying that AIPAC, Netanyahu and the others who who claim to speak on behalf of Jewish people do no such thing. That when they demand endless war, and atrocities, and impunity for all their crimes in the name of the Jewish people, when they insist that the Jewish people need apartheid and ethnic cleansing "in order to avert another Holocaust", they are lying. He says that what Jewish people need is to be free of these so-called leaders who keep trying to gather them into a mental, moral and even physical ghetto.

In trying to understand the "Jewish identity" by which so many diverse people, from so many origins and backgrounds primarily define themselves, he finds that it is not based on a common citizenship, nor religion, nor race nor culture, nor class; in fact, nothing really connects all these people but an artificially imposed conviction that persecution and Otherness are their eternal, unchangeable lot in life, centered on the Holocaust as its defining event.

He believes that this is wrong, and harmful both to Jews and to others, and that it runs the danger of becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. He asks people to discard this toxic and artificial 'identity' that has been imposed on them, and to allow themselves the freedom to identify themselves based on something other than what they fear, or what they reject.

It's scary, and depressing, that you interpret his constant insistence on equal human rights and freedom and mutual respect between all people, and his total rejection of militarism, xenophobia, and oppression in all its forms as "advocating for the mass extinction of Jews on 'racial' grounds".
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Re: Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmo

Postby AlicetheKurious » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:41 am

Re: As'aad Abu Khalil. I have a lot of respect for him, but being a long-time reader of his (and even an occasional correspondent), I can tell when he's addressing a subject that he knows and has taken the time to think about, and when he isn't. He does that, sometimes: come to hasty conclusions based on a very superficial understanding of the subject. His opinion of Atzmon doesn't seem to be well-informed, or based on any reading beyond the quotes in the letter to which he affixed his signature.

Atzmon asks why so many of the Jews who join the Palestine solidarity movement make a big deal of their "Jewishness", and then try to make it about what is or isn't 'offensive' to Jews. He calls these people, who work hard at imposing their own tribal obsessions on others, the "anti-zionist zionists". He asks if white people who joined the anti-Apartheid movement were permitted to decide who could or could not join based on their attitude towards white people. By this same logic, men should be able to dictate to women who should or shouldn't be allowed to join the feminist movement based on whether men find their views offensive. It's like allowing Germans, at the height of WWII, to decide what's acceptable in Jewish discourse depending on whether it offends Germans.

It's absurd.

As a people fighting for survival against ethnic cleansing and even genocide, the Palestinian people have the right to define their own priorities and focus their struggle on their own issues, based on their own needs, not those of anybody else. Abu Khalil should be the first to recognize and respect this.
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Re: Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmo

Postby DrVolin » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:50 am

Alice, I get the impression that you read far more into Atzmon than is actually there, and at the same time, far less.
all these dreams are swept aside
By bloody hands of the hypnotized
Who carry the cross of homicide
And history bears the scars of our civil wars

--Guns and Roses
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Re: Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmo

Postby AlicetheKurious » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:05 am

DrVolin wrote:Alice, I get the impression that you read far more into Atzmon than is actually there, and at the same time, far less.


As far as I can tell, I'm the only one here who has been reading and following Gilad Atzmon for years and who's taken the trouble to think about who he really is, and what he's trying to communicate.

Most commenters here seem to have formed their opinion almost entirely on the quotes in the OP, or not much more, and their own prejudices.

I think he's cool, because, with his brothers and sisters who are oppressed, persecuted and despised, he is humble, generous, open and respectful; with the hypocrites, the bullies and the smug he is rude, aggressive and 'offensive'. Best of all, he has an unerring sense for which is which.



    In Defense of History, and Gilad Atzmon

    Image
    'We are entitled to express ourselves as we wish.'

    By Sarah Gillespie

    Herodotos is an historian who trains you as you read. It is a process of asking, searching, collecting, doubting, striving, testing, blaming, and above all standing amazed at the strange things humans do.
    -- Poet and translator of ancient Greek, Anne Carson, Nox (2011)

    Gilad Atzmon’s intellectual expedition into the daunting terrain of Jewish identity politics has always evoked a storm of controversy. Still, when I first met Gilad, it was hard not to suspect he was exaggerating the extent of abuse he received from various UK pressure groups. Primarily, it’s not easy to wrap your head around the notion that a person can plausibly be branded as ‘a racist’ when they tour the world with a gypsy violinist, a black drummer, a Jewish bass player and a token English white boy on piano. However, as I began to understand the full complexities of Gilad’s arguments – a process, which, for me, required as much unlearning as it did learning – I reluctantly grasped the problem. And, to my utter horror, I also fathomed the full measure of pathological bile wielded against him. Indeed, some of it hemorrhaged in my direction.

    After the 2009 Israeli assault on Gaza I organized a concert for ‘Medical Aid for Palestinians’ featuring iconic violinist Nigel Kennedy. Campaigners launched an onslaught from all sides - the right, the left, the Zionists and the anti-Zionists - individually and collectively, lobbied the owner of the venue, the director of MAP and myself, demanding that we cancel the event. Some even accused us of mobilizing art to fund rocket attacks on Jews. I was shocked, upset and embarrassed that I had inadvertently dragged my friend, who owns the club, into such a shameful debacle.

    After the concert (a huge success) I was labeled a Holocaust denier. Not only was this accusation ludicrous and totally unfounded it was potentially damaging to me. It is clear that in this culture, you could query the extent of the Holodomor, the Nakba or the annihilation of American Indians without raising much of an eyebrow in the public domain, but to do the same with the deaths of Jews in the Second World War is tantamount to career suicide. My lawyer advised me to get the accusation removed from the Internet but I think it best serves as a small, cyber monument to the preposterous and baseless sewage in which some people are content to swim.

    More recently the cacophony of hysteria we are subjected to since Gilad’s polemic The Wondering Who crowned him a cause célèbre, has shot off the richter scale. Gilad puts up with it almost daily. Yesterday the Jewish Chronicle demanded that the Arts Counsel of Britain withdraw funding from the Raise Your Banner Festival that we are playing at together on 25th November. They failed of course, but have now resorted, in a separate piece, to simply comparing Gilad to a pedophile. I too have been inundated with hostile youtube comments, messages and emails insisting I either drop my gigs with Gilad, or issue a statement denouncing his views.

    This inspired me to do the exact opposite, to state here categorically how much I support and admire Gilad Atzmon’s work, both as an artist and as a humanist, how much I cherish freedom of thought and speech and to declare that the day I withdraw from a festival because a few campaigners threaten to wreck my reputation, will be a cold day in hell. We are artists. We are entitled to express ourselves as we wish, we are entitled to sing, ask, dance, write and reflect.

    It would be advantageous for Gilad’s opponents if he were, as they claim, a banal biological determinist who simply dislikes people according to the lottery of their DNA. If this were the case, I’m sure they would be slightly more successful in dismantling our concerts and banning Gilad’s talks. Unfortunately for them, too many people understand that Gilad is on an intellectual quest for truth. According to the Greek historian Herodotos, quoted above, this is most humane thing you can ever hope to do. We can not be banned from playing, from writing or from ‘wondering who’ we are. Lest we forget, the word ‘history’ comes from an ancient Greek verb meaning ‘to ask’.

    So, alas dear agitators, even if we dropped dead tomorrow someone somewhere would still be listening to our albums and reading Gilad’s book. I’m afraid the battle might continue but the war is already won. Link
"If you're not careful the newspapers will have you hating the oppressed and loving the people doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
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Re: Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmo

Postby American Dream » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:21 pm

Gilad Atzmon is so reminiscent of Israel Shamir: What's really going on here?

http://wlcentral.org/node/1185

02/03/2011

Who is Israel Shamir?


The principal claims about Israel Shamir are drawn from an articleby Professor Emeritus of Russian Literature at the University of Gothenburg, Magnus Ljunggren, in the Swedish tabloid newspaper Expressen.

From: 2010-12-10: Expressen: "Daddy's Boy" by Magnus Ljunggren

[Shamir] is in fact one of the world's most notorious anti-Semites. He has gone by at least six different names. Growing up in Soviet Novosibirsk he was Izrail Schmerler. As a Jew, he took in 1969 to Israel. 1984 he came to Sweden as Israel Shamir. He became a Swedish citizen in 1992. During the years 2001-2005, he called himself Joran Jermer, and since then he transformed himself, in the population register, into Adam Ermash. Internationally, he is still Israel Shamir. He has held a variety of addresses around the world, mostly in Israel and Russia. In the early 2000s he adopted the Orthodox faith.

As Israel Shamir, this chameleon was regularly involved in the Russian "maroon" weekly bulletin Zavtra, at once nationalist, Stalinist, and militantly anti-Jewish. He uses this to an old Soviet-left jargon as he has declared - and proved - that he is prepared to cooperate with the far right at any time, for the good anti-Jewish cause.

He appeared at Förintelseförnekarkonferensen in Tehran in 2006. There also spoke of a former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke, who once wrote a preface to his article on "Jewish ritual murder."

Interviewed by Mohamed Omar, he made clear last year that "it is every Muslim's and Christian's duty" to dispel gaskammarmyten.

Last spring, appearing on the Russian extreme publisher Algorithm, Shamir's book "How to Blow Up the Elders of Zion Conspiracy". This makes it clearer than ever that it is the old czarist Russian falsification "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" which is his ideological basis. The world is faced with an American-Israeli conspiracy. The Jews have conquered the international media.


The broad biographical details are apparently confirmed by the biography on Shamir's website, IsraelShamir.net, although I have read more than once that the details over his having fought for Israel in the Yom-Kippur war are under dispute.

From: Biography on IsraelShamir.net

A native of Novosibirsk , Siberia, he moved to Israel in 1969, served as paratrooper in the army and fought in the 1973 war. After the war, he turned to journalism and writing. In 1975, Shamir joined the BBC and moved to London . In 1977-79 he lived in Japan . After returning to Israel in 1980, Shamir wrote for the Israeli daily newspaper Haaretz, and was the Knesset spokesman for the Israel Socialist Party (Mapam). He translated and annotated the cryptic works of S.Y. Agnon, the only Hebrew Nobel Prize winning writer, from the original Hebrew into Russian. In 2006 his mammoth annotated translation of a medieval Hebrew classic Sefer Yohassin (The Book of Lineage) was published by Zacuto Books. Shamir also translated the Odyssey, and selected chapters of Joyce’s Ulysses.

But Palestine , its sad history and enchanting landscape remained his most important subject. His views were summed up in The Pine and the Olive, the story of Palestine/Israel, published in 1988 and republished in 2004, and became a cult book among the readers. The second Palestinian Intifada turned Shamir to his highly political and poetic pieces centred on Palestine . As the battle for Palestine spilled over into Iraq , Shamir wrote more about the deeper, philosophical and theological meaning of the war. In 2004 he was received in the Orthodox Church of Jerusalem and Holy Land , being baptised Adam by Archbishop Theodosius Attalla Hanna. Shamir (60) lives in Jaffa and spends much time in Moscow and Stockholm ; he is father of three sons.


Is Israel Shamir an anti-semite?

Is Israel Shamir an anti-semite? It is difficult to avoid the conclusion that his work displays strong anti-semitic characteristics. Yet to call someone a "notorious anti-semite" as Ljunggren has done is to invite the reader to conclude that he must exemplify that category in the fullest sense, because that must be where the weight of opinion lies. Whenever notoriety is alleged, we ought to examine the evidence all the more closely. I've been careful below to accurately characterize Shamir's work, and I do believe that it is appropriately characterized by the term "anti-semitic."

Shamir's writing takes itself as addressing problems arising from the actions of "the Jews" within society. He appears to subscribe to a rather classic conspiracy theory, whereby "the Jews" are responsible, through a surreptitious bid for global influence, for many of the world's evils. The techniques allegedly employed include ownership of the media (through which perceptions of "the Jews" among the non-Jewish are shaped to Jewish advantage), the takeover of positions of influence in big business and official corridors of power, the invasion of the intelligentsia of the West, biological seperatism and internal ethnic purism, and the embellishment of the events of the Holocaust, including active promotion of its perception in history as being such an event as to demand Jewish exceptionalism as the penance of the West. Shamir is staunchly anti-Zionist, and sees the Zionist project, carried out in the Israeli state, as merely the vanguard of Jewish plans for world domination.

From: Pardes by Israel Shamir

Palestine is not the ultimate goal of the Jews; the world is. Palestine is just the place for the world state headquarters; necessary, for otherwise the people of Europe wouldn't be magetised like a rabbit in the headlights of a car.

These are some of the classical elements of the anti-semitic propagandaic efforts of Weimar Germany. The claims within them are comprehensively false, and the reasoning beleagured by cognitive bias and a fondness for defunct stereotypes. This sort of thinking does find common cause with violent xenophobic movements all over the world, looking for pretexts on which to direct hate.

One wouldn't feel the need to say any more, but for the fact that Shamir is apparently not, as we are given to believe in the wealth of recent coverage of him, someone who would agitate for the extermination of Jews - which is the immediate (but here incorrect) inference that most people are given to make from the fact that someone might be an anti-semite. There is certainly something very unseemly about all of these "anti-Jewish" conspiracy theories, but it is important to be aware of precisely why it isn't to be taken seriously, lest unconditional and misinformed outrage over it fund renewed fervour among its adherents, as often happens when people are told they can't say things. Shamir appears to actually relish the accusation of anti-semitism - it provides him with an opportunity to engage in the polemic of the persucuted. These "Jewish conspiracy" theories are ridiculous, and share company with some other unsavoury ideologies, but it is my impression that their taboo status is something that attracts those looking for something to rebel against.

Much has been made of Shamir's comment that "the Jews are a virus in human form" - originally from a Tufts lecture he gave in 2001. This easily recalls the worst excesses of Nazi genocidal theories. I imagine Shamir appropriates this sort of language in order to seek attention. He appears to thrive on controversy, but I am happy, after labouring through many pages of his work, that his substantive views are not well represented by this (rather cherry-picked) comment. Shamir has clarified his meaning on that comment himself (in a manner that does not excuse the exceptionally provocative choice of terminology). I will characterize his broader views here, while making it clear that I don't for a moment endorse any of them.

While being very certainly anti-Jewish, Shamir is not, apparently, an essentialist about Jewishness. He appears to believe that to be Jewish is a choice, a choice he reneged on during his conversion to Christianity. He doesn't pin Jewishness on physiognomic traits, nor on heredity, the way the Nazis did, but on ideology. There is no biological essentialism here. To him, it is an ethnic and religious identity the adherence to which lends tacit support to the supposed world-domination plans outlined above. In this respect, he takes part of his mission to be the conversion of adherents of the Judaic faith to Christianity, and the persuasion of, for instance, Zionists that Zionism is an objectionable world-view. For this programme, he chooses the exceptionally stupid name, given the context, of "kill a Jew" - by which he appears to mean, "killing the Jew" within oneself.

From: Expert.ru: Israel Shamir: Kill a Jew, and everyone can

- Do you really hate the Jews?

- No, of course. I just think it is important to kill the Jew in me ... Generally the reason is that Jews see themselves as victims. This is the basis of national identity. And finding themselves with new neighbors, they immediately reproduce the usual relationship - just as torturers. This place is not the right place. A victim of anything can be that neither will do - all the protection. But you know, because you can win it in himself, to abandon petty tribal egoism. I call it: "kill a Jew." I think everyone should do it.

But it is clear that despite this extraordinarily offensive terminology, and the arguable self-loathing it divulges, his project is apparently one of self-liberation from what he perceives as a damaging cultural/religious/ethnic ideology.

From: Assange in the Entrails of Empire

Excuse me if I’m sounding like a teenager’s comic book, but this story has so many twists and plots it makes my head swim. I haven’t been this dizzy since my first days as an anti-Zionist writer, hounded and alone. One day I was approached by a venerable Hassidic man; I instinctively cringed, expecting an ugly scene. Instead of condemnation I was deluged with goodwill, and at that same moment an orchestra next door suddenly struck up an old Jewish wedding tune. This ancient blessing seemed to rocket me up, up and away from the modern nationalist cult of brutal force, up to a place where old traditions still had value and relevance. Or was that just Clark Kent doing his thing again?

Consider also, in his recent article:

From: BBC Joins Smear Campaign Against Assange and Wikileaksby Israel Shamir

I have written hundreds of pages on the topic, but for the benefit of the reader I’ll sum it up. Naturally, as a son of Jewish parents and a man who has lived in the Jewish state, deeply and intimately involved with Jewish culture, I harbour no hate to a Jew because he is a Jew. I doubt many people do. However I did and do criticise various aspects of Jewish Weltanschauung like so many Jewish and Christian thinkers before me, or even more so for I witnessed crimes of the Jewish state that originated in this worldview.

Furthermore, for Shamir, most "Jews," - that is, adherents of this ethnic-cultural social programme, are not aware of their role in this purported conspiracy. World domination plans are not conspiratorial motives that every "Jew" secretly conceals in his heart, but instead, remain the preserve of powerful people who exert their influence over "the Jews," - who harnass social consent that derives from the self-constitution of the Jewish people and direct that consent towards nefarious ends. To Shamir, even these powerful people are not the final conspirators - they are ultimately enslaved by religious programming in the Judaic faith - the ultimate responsibility for the "Jewish conspiracy" derives, for Shamir, from a religious doctrine of Jewish exceptionalism ("the chosen people") and perversion of the original Judaic theology. Most of Shamir's work is theological in nature, then, and tries to trace causal origins for his inchoate Jewish conspiracy in scriptural doctrine - an endeavour during which he presents the conversion to Christ as the only viable option.

From: Pardes by Israel Shamir - speaking of his role as an Israeli soldier in the Yom-Kippur war.

Not one of us, with the possible exception of our commander, understood the logic behind our actions. ‘Theirs was not to reason why’, soldiers do not fight on need-to know basis. We tried to do our job and survive. Only two days later, when the armoured columns of General Brenn reached us, did we learn of the General Staff plans to cut off the Egyptian Third Army on the East bank of Suez Canal, and to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. Much later we learned of the man who made it possible – Henry Kissinger, the Jewish U.S. Secretary of State who gave the green light and spread the nuclear umbrella of protection over the Israeli troops. He had told a hesitant Golda Meir to break the Security Council-ordered cease-fire and to complete the encirclement. Only then did our modest action began to fit into a strategy. In a similar way, a Jew rarely knows or understands what the Jews want from themselves and from bewildered mankind. This lack of understanding causes many fine men and women to proclaim their support (or opposition) to the body politic called ‘the Jews’. Being born and raised a Jew does not help at all, just as belonging to the elite troops does not provide you with an understanding of the General Staff plans. A person of little knowledge is described in the Jewish lore as a ‘tinok shenishba’, ‘a kidnapped child’. A kidnapped Jewish child has no knowledge of Jewish customs, beyond knowing that he belongs to the Jews. Recently, Israeli President Moshe Katzav described non-religious Jews as ‘kidnapped children’, and even religious Jews have a very limited understanding of the Jewish world-organising plans. Many Israelis vented their anger at Katzav’s words, but he was right. Your average ‘Jew’ has very little knowledge and understanding of the subjects we shall be dealing with; it is highly probable he (or she) considers himself a Jew just because his grandparents were Jewish. Our goal is to understand and explain what ‘the Jews’ want. This task is a hard one, for the Jews have no obvious leaders who create a single strategy, no headquarters or central command. It is hard to swallow that the Jews can have a strategy but no strategist; and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion are popular precisely because they posit such a supreme (if obscure) strategist. However, ‘the locusts have no king, yet but they attack in formation’ (Proverbs 30:27) and devastate whole countries as if by plan.

It is possible there are no (or almost no) Jews who fully understand what the Jews want. The term ‘The Jews’, as used in this article, is meant to denote a spiritual persona of higher rank, relating to individual Jews like the Catholic Church is related to an individual Catholic, or a beehive to a bee. Thus, there is no subjective personal guilt associated with individual Jews, unless their specific actions or inaction are criminal or sinful per se. Thus, this discourse should help an individual to decide whether he wants to be a Jew or not, in the same way one may choose whether one wants to be a communist or a Quaker... It is my deep conviction that to be or not to be a Jew is an act of free will. A French Jew can be just French, a Russian Jew – just a Russian, a Palestinian Jew – just a Palestinian.


Shamir's entire confused philosophy is riddled with perverse religious symbolism, possibly the root cause of its objectionable content. Nominally laudable sympathy for the plight of Palestinian civilians is bound up with spiritual metaphors and idiosyncratic collective psychoanalysis. The Holocaust, for Shamir, is a false Christ suborning the worship of non-Jews - particularly those in positions of power in the West - to the advantage of "the Jews," while the Palestinians are a true Christ, crucified relentlessly by "the Jews" - just as, in a remarkable throwback to the classical anti-semitic refrain of the Middle Ages, "the Jews crucified our Lord." It is in this context that Shamir's alleged Holocaust-denial should be interpreted. Consider the Mohamed Omar interview, in Swedish, during which Shamir said the following:

From: Mohamed Omar: "The Holocaust is an idol" - interview with Israel Shamir

MO: Should it be allowed to criticize the Zionist version of the Holocaust?

Shamir: More than that, I think it is a duty to do so. I think it is every Muslim's and Christian's duty to deny the Holocaust, to reject this belief, just as Abraham and Moses rejected the idols. Any person who confesses to God should deny the Holocaust. I think it's much more serious that people deny God, right?

MO: Today, even the Pope went out and demanded that they should believe in the Holocaust.

Shamir: It is terrible. There is only one God, the Holocaust is an idol. I refuse to worship the Holocaust.

Shamir claimshere that he never made this statement, and that the interview is online for cross reference, but the above is [url]directly from the interview[/url], and it appears that he did in fact say these words. By "The Holocaust" he appears to mean the elevation of the Nazi genocide of the Jews to the status of religious idol, something which he believes ought to be denied as a matter of religious faith. He apparently does, following controversial figures like Robert Faurisson, challenge the historicity of specific events, and he openly doubts the testimony of eyewitnesses as to some of the excesses of the gas chambers, but does not appear to dispute that a systematic Nazi genocide of Jews (as well as homosexuals, the disabled, the Roma and others) occurred.

From: BBC Joins Smear Campaign Against Assange and Wikileaks by Israel Shamir

As for the accusation of “Holocaust denial”, my family lost too many of its sons and daughters for me to deny the facts of Jewish tragedy, but I do deny its religious salvific significance implied in the very term ‘Holocaust’; I do deny its metaphysical uniqueness, I do deny the morbid cult of Holocaust and I think every God-fearing man, a Jew, a Christian or a Muslim should reject it as Abraham rejected and smashed idols. I deny that it is good to remember or immortalize such traumatic events, and I wrote many articles against the modern obsession with massacres, be it the Jewish holocaust of the 1940s, the Armenian massacre of 1915, the Ukrainian “holodomor”, Polish Katyn, Khmer Rouge etc. Poles, Armenians, Ukrainians understood me, so did Jews – otherwise I would be charged with the crime of factual denial which is known to the Israeli law.

His imperative to deny (or "dispel") the Holocaust is apparently above all a denial of the spiritual and cultural hegemony of that event over the collective conscience of the West, as he appears to outline here (also, apparently, slurring homosexuality as a "perversion"):

From:Pardes by Israel Shamir

The total profanation of Man is physically impossible. Just as deprivation of normal sex life in jails causes perversions, a perversion of Western spirituality will come to life. The African slaves in America developed a new slave cult, mixing their old beliefs with those of their masters. Similar slave cults are growing now among the Europeans, and the cult of the Holocaust is one of them.

Theologically, this cult is an adaptation of the Jewish spiritual rule for Christian minds, as it replaces Christ with Israel, Golgotha with Auschwitz, and the Resurrection with the creation of the Jewish state. People who argue with the dogma of Holocaust are met with treatment the heretics were given in the days of yore. They are excommunicated and excluded from society.

Usually they are people of scientific mind; their arguments recall the arguments of naive atheists who were prone to say, "A whale can't swallow man, ergo, the story of Jonah is not true." In a similar vein, heritics of the Holocaust cult say: such vast amounts of Jews could not be killed, or there are no gas chambers to prove their existence. But these arguments cut no ice: people who found themselves in the Jewish universe have to invent some religious tools and dogmas.

On a subconscious level, the Americans and to lesser extent Europeans have already accepted their defeat. Claude Lanzmann sounded the challenge when he said: "If Auschwitz is true, then there is a human suffering with which that of Christ simply cannot be compared. In this case, Christ is false, and salvation will not come from him. Auschwitz is the refutation of Christ." This challenge was not met. No new Roland picked up the glove of the advancing enemy. Lanzmann was not ostracised, his films were screened in the cinemas of France, while theologians discussed "Christianity after Auschwitz." Spiritual capitulation of the West was manifested by the removal of the Cross and of a church from the grounds of Auschwitz; it was confirmed by the Pope's Canossa in Jerusalem, when the head of the Roman Catholic church asked forgiveness from the Jews.

It was a mistake. It is not a coincidence that soon afterwards, Sharon marched on the Temple Mount and started the World War Three. The Jews are no Christians, and they consider apology a sign of surrender. Our friend Paul Eisen wrote:

To the Christian and to the entire non-Jewish world, Jews say this: "You will apologise for Jewish suffering again and again and again. And, when you have finished apologizing, you will then apologize some more. When you have apologized sufficiently, we will forgive you, provided you let us do what we want in Palestine.

Eisen was too optimistic. Palestine is not the ultimate goal of the Jews; the world is. Palestine is just the place for the world state headquarters; necessary, for otherwise the people of Europe wouldn't be magetised like a rabbit in the headlights of a car. If a Jewish state would be established in say, Herzl or in Madagascar as per Hitler, it would not be able to activate deep levels of Christian consciousness. Now, appearing as a part of prophecy, it has captivated their mind.

It has captivated the mind of Israelis too. Their task in the whole setup is admittedly limited. The Jews in their drive to world domination need a base, and the Israelis are to seize and secure this base. For such a job they do not need much imagination, and Zionists are a simple-minded folk. Even average Israeli IQ is 95, below the mid-European 100 and way below the European Jewish 105. The lower IQ is not the result of Sephardi Jews being counted in, as sometimes is claimed, but of a well known fact: clever and successful Jews hardly ever immigrated to Israel. They made their career in the US or Russia, in France of Germany. They make money on Wall Street, fight antisemitism on the pages of Le Monde and The Times, rule nations and write art reviews. Israelis are the riffraff of World Jewry, sent to conquer the land for the NWO HQ.


Shamir, then, in his writing at least, is not straightforwardly an adherent of the same ideologies that provoked the Holocaust, although this is a poor excuse for much of the problematic material he is responsible for. The distinction seems an overly fine one, too. The "anti-semitic" characteristics of his work constitute a peculiar sort of anti-nationalistic, anti-racist, Christian theology married to some of the classical anti-semitic themes of Jewish world conspiracy and media ownership. He does not recommend hatred of Jews, or violence against Jews, but his philosophical tracts are belaboured with faulty inferences, defunct and erroneous cultural stereotypes, crude theological gambits and overly swift generalizations over huge groups of people, all of which are uncomfortably close to the underlying dogmas of hate-speech.

While Shamir himself appears to desire the cessation of conflict and violence in the world - laudable aspirations on their own - the flawed theoretical apparatus through which he views the world puts him in the company of, and provides endorsement for, violent Neo-Nazis and avowed racists. A "friends of Shamir," mailing list on his website contains material from a rogue's gallery of "theorists" of "Jewish hegemony," some of whom, in various iterations, treat Jews in a xenophobic fashion. Shamir is careful to criticize these writers, and there is apparently a variety of categories by which writers in this sub-literature differentiate themselves from each other. Shamir is at pains to distance himself from "racialists" - those participants in his mailing list who - distastefully - appear to believe the different ethnic groups to be sub-species of humanity, and take issue with Jews on this basis. But Shamir is also at pains to insist that these barely literate, paranoid tracts do contain valuable insights, despite their racism. He can either be seen as someone who remonstrates with straightforward anti-semites about their objectionable beliefs, or someone who, by addressing them, validates them.

His material, at any rate, does not evince a hatred of people to whom the cultural label "Jews" attaches in normal parlance, but appears to demonstrate an aversion to a specific religious cultural programme. It is certainly, to my mind, a problematic body of work. While there is quite a lot of historical precedent for writers performing collective psychoanalysis of this sort, it isn't an enterprise that can be afforded much scientific respect. Attempts to impute collective ideological traits to vast groups of people, as a method of explanatory history, has been employed with various levels of fruitfulness, by thinkers like Hegel and Marx, Schopenhauer and Nietzsche, Voegelin, Arendt and Strauss, Husserl, Heidegger, Gadamer and Ricouer.

It is possible that Shamir's example appears particularly objectionable because it purports to study a "Jewish Weltanschauung." But as a parting comment on this, without wishing to diminish the sense in which this way of thinking is flawed and undesirable, it would be fortunate if we could take this opportunity to consider how tacitly acceptable this manner of thinking is when applied on cable news networks, for instance, to "Arabs," or "Muslims." Where Shamir's material is rightly, and uncontroversially, considered problematic, a close relative of it enjoys endorsement in mainstream media such as FOX news, but is no less tacitly racist. It embarks on the same enterprise of cultural generalization, attributing to "Arabs" or "Muslims" (considered interchangeable) a hatred of the West, its freedoms and peoples, religious conquest of the West for Islam, and all of the flawed and hateful discourse that flows from that. It is not limited to commercially viable circus-acts like Ann Coulter, but is instead pervasive and widely accepted.

In whatever form we find it when it it rears its head, whether in the writings of fringe anti-semites, or the observations of news anchors, this sort of thinking should be repudiated in detail, and everyone should be given the appropriate intellectual resources to see its flaws for themselves.
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Re: Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmo

Postby Searcher08 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:08 pm

I came across this Kevin Barrett of 9/11 Truth fame


Why Hate Gilad Atzmon?

Kevn Barrett


Gilad Atzmon is one of the sweetest, funniest, most charming and likable people I’ve ever met.

He’s also one of the world’s best saxaphone players. Gilad’s music is not only gorgeous, but uncommonly accessible for music in its class.

His writing, which includes two novels, a nonfiction book, and countless essays, is grounded in the highest humanistic ideals, invigorating laughter, and an irrepressible joie de vivre.

In short, Gilad is outrageously easy to like.

So why is he hated so much?

Why are his appearances protested by angry picketers? Why is the most vicious and mendacious kind of calumny being hurled at him in such quantities? Why is there an organized effort to make this gentle, loving free spirit out to be some kind of deranged Nazi?

His detractors say his writing invites it. But they’re wrong. The proof is that the anti-Atzmon brigade has to resort to lies (or to be charitable, gratuitous distortions) to make him look bad.

There must be some deeper reason why they hate him.

Maybe it’s because he’s such a powerful symbol of – and argument for – the end of Zionism.

Gilad Atzmon grew up in Israel in a Jewish family that included Holocaust survivors. He fell in love with jazz as a teenager, so when it came time to serve in the IDF he joined a military band. During his IDF service, Gilad awakened to the horrors of Zionism and its brutality toward Palestinians. Shortly after leaving the IDF, he also left Israel and never returned.

Now London-based, Gilad Atzmon is considered one of Europe’s top jazz musicians – and, increasingly, its leading ex-Israeli anti-Zionist voice. He has published two acclaimed novels, and his new book The Wandering Who? has endured vicious attacks, smear campaigns, and boycotts by such Zionists as Alan Dershowitz, and is becoming a worldwide bestseller.

In all of this, Gilad Atzmon is quite the anti-Zionist success story. His creative output, both musical and verbal, challenges arbitrary boundaries and celebrates freedom. (Jazz, the greatest art form America ever produced, is at its root a celebration of musical freedom by once-enslaved African-Americans.)

Today, more and more Israelis are lining up to get second passports and asking themselves, “Is there life after Zionism?” Gilad Atzmon offers a perfect example, with plenty of supporting arguments, of how ex-Zionist Israelis can liberate themselves from the shackles of a brutal, abusive, and ultimately doomed ideology and identity.

So that’s why they hate him. He’s the walking, talking, saxaphone-blowing embodiment of the joy of life after Zionism.

You see, most of the people who hate Gilad are radical Zionists; all (including the handful of “pro-Palestine” phonies) are prisoners of Zionist ideology. They have been trained to heap mountains of hate on anyone who crosses the one meaningful line in the whole Israel-Palestine debate: The line that separates those who support or accept the existence of a “Jewish state” in Palestine from those of us who do not.

As Norman Finkelstein inadvertently pointed out, Israel – despite its horrendous human rights record – is not going to be changed by people focusing on ephemeral abuses of human rights. The Zionists (like Finkelstein) will simply respond, “There are, and have been, human rights abuses elsewhere that are just as bad; so anybody who focuses on Israeli human rights violations must be an anti-Semite.” (Most murderers don’t get off by pleading to the judge that someone else committed an equally bad murder; but we’ll let that slide.)

Chris Hedges might respond to Finklestein that nowhere else do army snipers lure children into range of their guns, then gut-shoot them for sport; and British Medical Journal might add that the more than 600 children sport-shot during the interval they examined, who were essentially hunted and killed for fun by IDF soldiers as a de facto national policy, died from a specific and horrific type of human rights abuse that has never been seen anywhere else. But these events will be buried by the Zionist-dominated media; and no matter how horrific the abuses, there will always be different sufficiently revolting examples of inhumanity from other times and places to relativize the Israeli atrocities.

There is only one argument the Zionists cannot possibly win: The argument over whether there should be a “Jewish state” in Palestine in the first place.

Defenders of this bizarre notion must argue that it is perfectly fine for a religious-ethnic group to invade and occupy another group’s land, halfway across the world, on the basis of the aggressor group’s ancient mythology. And that it is perfectly fine for the aggressor group to dispossess and destroy the people living on that land, and to create an ethnic-specific apartheid system under which the invaders are first class citizens, while the victims are either second-class citizens or permanently exiled from their homeland.

To defend Zionism, you would also have to grant American Celts (like me) the right to invade, occupy, and erect a “Celtic state” in the Baltic or Western France or wherever our mythology says we originated. You would have to allow Andalusian Muslims (another ethnic-religious category I identify with) to invade, occupy, and ethnically-cleanse Spain. You would have to allow Protestants, whose mythology tells them that they are the true Christians, to invade and occupy the Vatican – and Palestine, for that matter. You would have to allow virtually all of the 3,000 ethnic groups on earth to invade, occupy, and ethnically cleanse someplace halfway across the world that they can claim is their “ancient homeland.”

Obviously, any and all “invade-and-occupy-our-mythological-ancient-homeland” projects are equally indefensible and equally insane.

Zionism is genocidal insanity.

It must be ended.

No more Jewish state in Occupied Palestine.

Period.

This is the bottom line. This is the line that all the Zionists, from right-wingers like Netanyahu to left-wingers like Chomsky and Finklestein and Amy Goodman and Matt Rothschild and Michael Lerner and Rob Kall and Chip Berlet and all of the hundreds of other Zionist gatekeepers that dominate the “alternative” as well as mainstream media DO NOT WANT YOU TO CROSS. These are the Police Lines that the Zionist thought police have erected, and are working overtime to maintain.

Because if you ask that one little simple question – “is the Zionist project, and the Israeli ‘nation,’ legitimate in the first place?” the whole thing crumbles to dust and ashes.

That’s the real reason the Zionists want to nuke Iran. The Iranian government is the only government in the Middle East to have, as its official policy, exactly the same position as the vast majority of the people of the Middle East: The Zionist entity in Occupied Palestine is not, and never will be, legitimate; and it must be ended, preferably by nonviolent means, as soon as possible.

And that’s why the Zionists are getting more and more hysterical in their denunciations of “delegitimizers.” (How can you delegitimize something that was never legitimate in the first place?)

And that’s why they’re hate-swarming all over Jenny Tonge, who correctly pointed out that Israel won’t last forever.

And that’s why they hate Gilad Atzmon. Not only is Gilad forthrightly anti-Zionist, thereby showing the “peacenik Zionist” phonies up for what they are; but he is also fearless in his analysis of the way Jewish identity politics fosters the delusion that Jews are an “exceptional people” who should be allowed to do things to Palestine that no other ethnic/religious group would ever be allowed to do to its mythological ancient homeland across the seas.

Worse: The guy expressing these taboo but obviously-correct views, and setting such a beautiful example as an ex-Israeli anti-Zionist, is an energetic and fabulously talented Renaissance man – a superb musician and writer and mesmerizing public speaker. This must gall the Zionists to no end.

No wonder they hate Gilad Atzmon.

Maybe someday, when they get tired of hating, they’ll drop their Zionism (itself an ideology of hatred, starting with self-hatred) and embrace the love, joy and liberation Gilad embodies so beautifully.


Introduction by Gilad Atzmon:

The following is a deconstruction by Kevin Barrett. Barrett takes the time and the effort and dismantles each of the arguments against myself and my work. Barrett exposes the intellectual lameness at the core of my detractor's argument . Once again, it seems as if my critics actually project their own symptoms onto me. I would like to thank Kevin for his time and effort.



Kevin Barrett - Why Hate Gilad Atzmon Pt. 2



Last Thursday’s essay “Why Hate Gilad Atzmon?” has been bouncing around the internet. (The title currently gets 780,000 Google hits).

In that piece I suggested that the anti-Atzmon brigade is defending sacred boundaries against Atzmon’s fearless questioning. The two taboo questions are: Is the whole notion of a Jewish state in Palestine (i.e., Zionism) legitimate and/or feasible? (The obvious answer, of course, is NO.) Second question: To what extent has Jewish identity politics contributed to the disaster of Zionism? (The obvious answer, of course, is “to a considerable extent.”)

“Don’t even go there!” they scream. Atzmon goes there. So they lynch him.

The truth hurts.

That’s my take, anyway. But not everyone agrees with me. I have received quite a few anti-Atzmon emails. They all make the same argument: Atzmon is wrong about X, Y, or Z, and therefore he is dangerous, a racist, a dangerous racist, and so on.

First, I would like to point out to these people that Atzmon has a right to be wrong. Since nobody is arguing that Atzmon is offering wrong facts – just wrong opinions, interpretations and orientations on very complex issues – his critics ought to be working harder to explain why he is wrong, rather than calling him names and organizing boycotts and smear campaigns on the basis of perfectly innocent quotes violently and misleadingly ripped from their contexts.

Second, it isn’t at all clear that Atzmon is wrong. What IS clear is that many of his opponents are.

Take the charge that Atzmon is an “essentialist.”

To call someone an “essentialist” (in the bad sense) is to argue that they prematurely end a discussion by fallaciously citing the “essence” of something.

For example, if someone argued that the reason African-American communities often have high crime rates is that “black people tend to be criminals, that’s just their nature” that person would be making a fallacious argument by falsely impugning an unchangeable “essence” to black people. And that person could plausibly be charged with bigotry. The logical fallacy involved is called “circular reasoning”: Black neighborhoods have higher crime rate, therefore black people are more likely to be criminals, because they’re the ones in the black neighborhoods, where crime rates are higher, ad infinitum. The problem with this argument is that it prematurely ends an inquiry into the real reason why crime rates are what they are; it short-circuits a more thoughtful investigation of the historical and cultural factors that have produced the phenomenon under investigation.

Now if Atzmon were to say “It is just the essence of Jewish nature to be greedy and violent, and that explains the rape of Palestine – end of story, and don’t bore me with historical and cultural explanations,” he would be an essentialist in the bad sense.

But that is not what he says. On the contrary, it is Atzmon who is opening a thoughtful discussion of the historical and cultural factors behind Zionism. And it is his opponents who want to prematurely shut down the inquiry by ruling that discussion off-limits. As Gilad puts it, the two-staters will only go back as far as 1967. One-staters go back to 1948, or maybe the Balfour declaration of 1917. Gilad wants to keep going, right back through the 19th century and beyond.

It is actually his opponents who are the essentialists. They believe that the essence of Jewishness is always either positive or neutral. Any discussion of Jewish culture or identity that brings up anything that is negatively-valued violates their sacred notion of the essence of Jewishness as innocence and victimization. Atzmon wants to talk about empirical historical reality, which bears little resemblance to the essentialist construct. So they shout him down, desperate to end the discussion before it starts. You’d almost think they have something to hide.

Ironically, most of those wailing that Atzmon is slandering the Jews are themselves slandering Atzmon. They call him a racist, with no evidence to back up that charge. (Atzmon’s critique of Jewish identity-politics and Jewish culture in general has absolutely nothing whatsoever do do with race, as he himself always makes abundantly clear, in part by pointing out that Jews are not a race.)

Let’s look at some of the charges against Gilad that have appeared in my in-box. They usually involve taking a quote and lying about it – I mean, misconstruing it.

Atzmon quote: “The remarkable fact is they [ all Jews--not Zionists] don’t understand why the world is beginning to stand against them in the same way they didn’t understand why the Europeans stood against them in the 1930s. Instead of asking why we are hated they continue to toss accusations on others.”

The writer claims that Atzmon is “blaming the Jews for the Holocaust.” That’s just not true. The quote, in its context, doesn’t say that. It addresses an empirical historical reality (Europe in the 1930s, the world today) that is much larger than “the Holocaust.” And once again, Gilad is the honest thinker while his opponents are the essentialists. For the essentialists, the essence of Jewishness is 100% pure victimhood, end of discussion: Not a single Jew on earth – including, for example, the Rothschilds and their big bankster friends who screwed Germany in World War I in exchange for Palestine – bears one iota of responsibility for the rise of anti-Semitism in Germany! (Just like the top neocons, of whom around 90% are Jewish and fanatical Zionists, bear not one iota of responsibility for the 9/11 wars against Israel’s enemies.)

If you are an honest historian and cultural analyst, whenever there is a conflict between two groups, you look at it from the point of view of various parties in both groups, and emerge with a more or less nuanced, multi-viewpoint, holistic picture. Gilad compares this to analyzing the problems that arise in the life of a couple. Should we take the word of one or the other party that he or she is 100% right, and the other 100% wrong? Or should we talk to both parties and try to take both perspectives into consideration?

If you an essentialist/mythologist, nourished on Old Testament exceptionalism and chosen-ness (like Americans in general, not just Jews) you may instead imagine that it is the essence of the good guys in your historical narrative to be good, and the essence of the bad guys to be bad. Jews good, Germans bad; ergo, US and Allies good, Axis bad. End of sacred story.

This is the essentialist myth that Americans and Westerners have accepted in place of real history. And it is this myth, more than any other, that is responsible for what William Blum calls “the American holocaust”: The massacre of uncounted millions, and the ruined lives of uncounted tens of millions more, by the CIA, the US military, and their allies since World War II. Taken together with Zionist atrocities against Palestine and their spill-over into widespread Middle East violence, and the WWII atrocities of the Allies against people in the Axis countries, and it should be clear to any sane and moderately well-informed person that the “good guys” who won World War II have committed vastly more mass-murder, vastly more atrocities, vastly greater crimes against the human body and spirit than the Nazis ever did. In short, as Philip K. Dick suggested in The Man in the High Castle, it was the real “Nazis” who WON World War II. We have met the enemy, and he is us.

Only this realization will stop the Zio-American holocaust that continues today and threatens to explode into World War III.

But – as is commonly said in reference to the “good Germans” under Hitler – it is so much easier to just pretend it isn’t happening, and go along with the essentialist, exceptionalist assumption that your people are the good guys. And when someone like Niemoller or Atzmon comes along to challenge you, shout him down without giving him a fair hearing.

The confused individual who falsely charges Atzmon with blaming Jews for the Holocaust also calls Atzmon a racist:

“This is the essence of racism. Not that Jews like many before them have become corrupted by power. But that there is something pathological about Jewish culture–it must be their culture since he repudiates genetic explanations–that led them to become Zionists.”

Sorry, that is NOT “the essence of racism.” Racism offers biological explanations. Cultural explanations are THE OPPOSITE of racism!

Calling Atzmon “a racist” when you don’t even know what racism is…well, to say that this is inviting a defamation lawsuit is putting it mildly.

This person is trying to rule out any kind of investigation of cultural factors that led Jews to become Zionists. This is idiotic on its face. So in an attempt to prevent anyone, himself included, from actually thinking, he starts in with the mendacious insults: “Racist! Anti-Semite!”

Let’s get this straight: Nobody in his or her right mind has ever tried to prevent any discussion or investigation of cultural factors in history. Was there something in Protestant culture that led to the Industrial Revolution? Max Weber says yes – and he doesn’t give a good goddamn whether you feel he’s insulting Protestants (or Catholics) by investigating their respective cultures. Is there something in the culture of Muslim Saudi elites that is contributing to religious tensions in the region? Hell, yes – their hypocritical tolerance of wildly un-Islamic behavior for themselves, while imposing harsh restrictions on others. Is there something in Muslim culture that has slowed “economic progress” in Islamic countries? Sure, there are plenty of things, ranging from stopping to pray five times a day, to prohibitions against any kind of dealing involving interest, to culturally-accepted nepotism, to cultural preferences for working as an independent operator rather than a member of a corporate team.

Atzmon’s critics are wildly irrational in calling him a racist, and claiming that nobody should ever investigate cultural forces in history (the bread and butter of cultural historians). The dozens of people signing a statement to this effect - a statement containing blatantly false and defamatory assertions about Atzmon – might as well be signing a statement reading “I am an ignorant idiot.”

What these folks should be doing is reading Atzmon’s work carefully and holistically, and then, if they find that Atzmon is mistaken in his analysis of the way Jewish identity politics is a factor in Zionism, they should correct him. For once we’ve admitted that cultural critique is perfectly legitimate, we must add that not all cultural critiques are equal: It can be done badly, or well. Sure, some of Gilad’s statements about Jewish identity politics are tendentious or overly broad. And since his main focus is explaining the horrors of Zionism, he naturally talks more about negative cultural tropes than positive ones. (Personally I think that the positives in Jewish culture outweigh the negatives; but the positives, such as humor, education, bagels with lox and cream cheese and a thin slice of onion, etc. don’t explain what’s been done to Palestine.)

The irrational Atzmon critic continues:

As long as Zionism is conveyed as a colonial project, Jews, as a people, should be seen as ordinary people. They are no different from the French and the English, they just happen to run their deadly colonial project in a different time.”

Obviously this cannot be taken at face value. The French and the English are not identical, nor were their colonial projects. One thing I learned from postgraduate work in African Studies is that the French and English colonial projects differed wildly in accordance with the very different cultural peculiarities of the two nations. For example: The French, holding a monolithically statist and egalitarian ideology in keeping with their culture, did their best to grant the natives the status of honorary Frenchmen; and being slightly less racist than the British, they were more likely to intermarry with the colonized peoples.

So what is this dramatic, doth-protest-too-much insistence that “the Jews are ordinary people, just like the French and British” trying to hide?

The answer comes in the same sentence: The “deadly colonial project” of the Jews is happening at a “different time” from that of the French and English.

Let’s be specific: All other colonial projects – especially settler-colonial projects – are dead. They have passed on, ceased to be, expired and gone to meet their Maker; stiff, bereft of life, they rest in peace. If the Israelis hadn’t nailed Occupied Palestine to its perch, they would all be pushing up daisies.

The age of colonialism ended in about 1960; the process mostly happened within a few years, and was essentially complete within three decades. South Africa, the second-to-last settler colony, officially decolonized itself around 1990.

So what is it about Israel that allows it to persist as a fanatical, murderous settler-colony, vastly nastier than apartheid South Africa or French Algeria, in a post-colonial world?

Gilad Atzmon says that to answer that question, we need to take a very close, critical look at Jewish culture in general and Jewish identity politics in particular.

If there is a reasonable argument to the contrary, I would like to hear it.

But I don’t think there is.

I think it will be people following the trail Gilad blazed – people who discover that the persistence of a very peculiar and very nasty settler-colony in Palestine is largely due to the peculiarities of Jewish identity politics – who will, by ripping the mask off Zionism to show what it really is, shame the world in general and the Jewish community in particular into shutting down their settler colony in Occupied Palestine.

Currently, the sacred taboos and one-sided myths that surround this issue are protecting Zionism. Blast those taboos to smithereens, and the Wall will come down.

Like Joshua at the battle of Jerico, Gilad is heroically blasting the Wall – the wall that stops us from thinking as well as the Apartheid Wall in Occupied Palestine – with his saxophone as well as his pen.

One day the Wall will crumble.

And Gilad will be playing at the celebration.

Hope to see you there.

Insha’allah.
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Re: Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmo

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:44 pm

.

Kevin Barrett?

Are you kidding us?

Seriously? "Of 9/11 truth fame"?

Maybe in the same way that the Mongols were visitors to Baghdad?

I'm going to assume you don't know about Barrett.

No one did more to destroy 9/11 truth than him. He was foolish, reckless, self-aggrandizing and relentless about always doing the wrong thing. Unless, of course, he was executing a mission. He's a perfect fit to Atzmon, actually: sells to a niche exactly the kind of radical pose they want to hear. He gives them a heroic martyr's image, then spends the most energy by far on his own "cause," making sure his worst statements are highlighted and the worst allies are promoted. We're talking real-world damage here, not appearances on a message board. Barrett is one of the key examples for demonstrating how "big tent" philosophy enables poison-pill politics. The end result is an empty tent.

Here's a 46-page rundown (and counting) on his lies, his disgusting threats to people, his wife-beating (sorry, it doesn't reflect on his beliefs but it's just the reality for the "Congressional candidate") and much worse:
http://truthaction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1887

PS - Searcher08, I may be forceful, but let's try to be friendly with each other.

.

PPS - Serial liar Kevin Barrett shows a tiny and harmless bit of his MO in claiming that the title "Why hate Gilad Atzmon" gets 780,000 search hits!

In fact, in quotes as a string, it gets a nominal 15,000.

Only the title in quotes counts, as any Ph.D. 15 years into the age of popular Internet would surely know. (Otherwise, the search returns anything with those words in it, not the title!)

http://www.google.com/webhp?complete=0& ... 40&bih=824

Furthermore, the search results end at page 10:
http://www.google.com/webhp?complete=0& ... 40&bih=824

On that page, Google says there are 100 genuine hits! (Google result claims are increasingly exaggerated by site-scraping, mirrors and links; you will never actually find the "15,000" pages that supposedly contain this string.)

To show the deficiency in Google result claims, Gilad Atzmon (no quotes) alone gets 472,000, 2/3 less than Why Hate Gilad Atzmon!
http://www.google.com/webhp?complete=0& ... 40&bih=824

In other words, when Barrett searches it that way, without quotes, Google ends up adding an additional 300,000+ hits (probably not actual sites) that happen to contain the words hate or why. These are nominal; Google will never show you that many, because they don't exist. All search results end at page 50, and if you go that far, most of what you will see be repeats, scraping, mirrors, links, sites that don't actually contain the words but were somehow included by the algorithm anyway, etc. etc.

But hey, if you prefer the lie: the entire City of Minneapolis just read Kevin Barrett's latest blog post.

.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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