rigorousintuition.ca

Do not cite RT

Since 2005, and markedly within the last two years there has been an increase of RT media citation by liberal or "left" leaning commentators and enthusiasts. RT, or Russia Today, is a public supported news organization that has grown to be the second largest foreign news channel in the US, after the BBC by viewership. There are two reasons I can think to not support its projected overtaking of the BBC.

The first reason is that publically funded means government supported. There is every reason to expectantly believe Russian intelligence and propaganda specialists run the organization. It's reporting hypocracy is worn on its sleeves. Stories broadcast criticising the authoritarian nature of American government that American liberals rush to post on their facebook, while the very brutal oligarchy of Russia itself is untainted. By using RT as cited media, you are supporting the aims in which this oligarchy created RT.

The second reason is that it becomes quickly apparent that the domestic conservatives can use this against you. You going from support of Russian oligarchy's propaganda aims to support of that oligarchy itself is an easy connection to make. It's ironic that for decades conservatives accuse the so-called left of being supported by or actively supporting Russian "fifth column" philosophy. A conservative's deriding an issue to the black and white dustbin is made that much easier. Afterall, leftism is essentially Marxist radicalism, they'd scoff.

The effectiveness of which this will be used against liberals can grow. The strategy may be under-utilized as RT influence hasn't yet made that breakthrough. Cries of "traitor!", can quickly put you in a position you thought you wouldn't be. Also the so called soft-middle would not touch you with a 50 foot stick. Victory for conservatives.

We need alternative media in this country, but only that produced democratically and from our communities.

Agreed. This Max Kaiser shit, for instance, makes no sense insofar as he makes sense but he's on some scrub youtube channel named Russian Times. WTF?

Sure, fair enough. RT is hooking him up with an outlet. But this be a double-bind for like minded people who once called themselves progressives back when shit was more simple. That shit is dead and the double bind for those who haven't buried those terms of progressive and whatnot are the the goddamn victims. See KONY. Where the fuck was Russian Times back in fucking 2003? And why the fuck is "progressive" news and commentaty being broadcast by a johnny come lately outlet such as RT? Who and what the fuck is RT?

Too clever by half.

Occult Means Hidden wrote:The first reason is that publically funded means government supported. There is every reason to expectantly believe Russian intelligence and propaganda specialists run the organization. It's reporting hypocracy is worn on its sleeves. Stories broadcast criticising the authoritarian nature of American government that American liberals rush to post on their facebook, while the very brutal oligarchy of Russia itself is untainted. By using RT as cited media, you are supporting the aims in which this oligarchy created RT.

Yeah, and the BBC broadcasts British intelligence and zionist and American propaganda; the infamous US media: don't get me started. Al-Jazeera? CIA and Muslim Brotherhood shit. France24? Deutsche Welle? PressTV? Al-Manar is the Hizbullah tv station. Xinhua carries Chinese intelligence propaganda. In fact, I can't think of one mainstream media source that is not a propaganda outlet for one or more intelligence agencies. So why single out RussiaToday? They, like all the ones I've named, also have some good information that is often not available on the others. You do have to be wary and learn to sift the chaff from the wheat. If you want holy scripture, seek it in a house of worship, not in the 'news' media.

Occult Means Hidden wrote:The second reason is that it becomes quickly apparent that the domestic conservatives can use this against you. You going from support of Russian oligarchy's propaganda aims to support of that oligarchy itself is an easy connection to make. It's ironic that for decades conservatives accuse the so-called left of being supported by or actively supporting Russian "fifth column" philosophy. A conservative's deriding an issue to the black and white dustbin is made that much easier. Afterall, leftism is essentially Marxist radicalism, they'd scoff.

First, domestic conservatives already consider "you" to be satan's spawn; it's not like you're going to win them over anyway, even if you cite TIME Magazine, that infamous 'liberal' rag. If you find some important information on RT, and it is credible and corroborated, especially if it includes video evidence, then use it. RussiaToday is pretty good at interviewing people who don't get any exposure in the American media, but who have an important contribution to make. Don't give domestic conservatives the right to pull your strings for you, to blind or gag you or handcuff you, or to substitute their judgement for yours.

Second, domestic conservatives are hardly in a position to determine what's true and what's false, with their shameful history of gullibility, and their weakness for buffoonish demagogues whose fanaticism is only exceeded by their smug ignorance. Neither are they in any position to accuse anybody of being a "fifth column" for a foreign state, what with the iron grip that Israel-firsters and their groveling lackeys have on 'conservative' politics and media.

Third, the Soviet Union hasn't existed in a while, and after more than two decades of neo-liberal, predatory capitalism infesting every aspect of Russian society, if there's anybody who still associates Russia with Marxism, you might want to send a little derision their way.

Occult Means Hidden wrote:The effectiveness of which this will be used against liberals can grow. The strategy may be under-utilized as RT influence hasn't yet made that breakthrough. Cries of "traitor!", can quickly put you in a position you thought you wouldn't be. Also the so called soft-middle would not touch you with a 50 foot stick. Victory for conservatives.

Actually, "victory for the conservatives" is guaranteed the minute you let them make the rules and accept their terms of reference. They win because they couldn't care less about you and how you think, they only have contempt for people like you, while you desperately care about what they think about you, and try to please them on their terms.

Occult Means Hidden wrote:We need alternative media in this country, but only that produced democratically and from our communities.

I hate to break it to you, but media coverage, especially for foreign news but even for national news, is insanely expensive, far beyond the budget of most "communities". Alternative media are best for analyzing, critiquing and reframing the news that's collected by the major media. On the other hand, community-based media is great for local coverage.

The best way to be well-informed is to consult the widest variety of media sources, including RussiaToday and all the others, AND alternative media. Assume that all of them lie or distort the truth to some extent, but that they all contribute another piece of the puzzle, one way or another.

Occult Means Hidden wrote:There is every reason to expectantly believe Russian intelligence and propaganda specialists run the organization. It's reporting hypocracy is worn on its sleeves. Stories broadcast criticising the authoritarian nature of American government that American liberals rush to post on their facebook, while the very brutal oligarchy of Russia itself is untainted. By using RT as cited media, you are supporting the aims in which this oligarchy created RT.

Aye, that pretty much sums up RT, and Pravda from the 1910s till today. Why is anybody surprised? Press TV and Al Jazeera are operated along similar lines, as are the BBC, CNN, ABC, CBC, etc. All are government-corporate controlled. But RT is a straight-up joke.

To my knowledge RT is the only news station that actually tried to pass off a still from The Dark Knight as one of Brievik's bombs going off in Norway, which is a uniquely shitty and inept thing for a media outlet to do. That alone almost made me think that they couldn't be run by the FSB under direct instructions from the Kremlin, because it just seemed so laughably amateurish and pathetic. But of course they are. Of course they are.

RT's coverage of the conflict in Chechnya and the frequent murders of prominent Russian journalists hasn't exactly been... existent at any point.

But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, RT provides a lot of narrative that turns out to have been spot on that would never have come to light if one relied on western msm because it probably has come from Russian intelligence.

RT is always interesting. They have a standard pattern of prodiving two headlines about what is wrong with the US and one about what is right with Russia. Every hour. On the hour

They have great interviews with people you don't often hear from, and some very good human interest stuff. Like all things, it must be taken in moderation, and balanced with other things.

AhabsOtherLeg wrote:To my knowledge RT is the only news station that actually tried to pass off a still from The Dark Knight as one of Brievik's bombs going off in Norway, which is a uniquely shitty and inept thing for a media outlet to do. That alone almost made me think that they couldn't be run by the FSB under direct instructions from the Kremlin, because it just seemed so laughably amateurish and pathetic. But of course they are. Of course they are.

On the other hand, ITN (you forgot them, I assume, as they are to news what the Simpsons is to current affairs) have, on no less than two separate occasions, used moving pictures from video games as footage of actual combat operations. The Guardian linked to some sort of fake picture of the Breivik blast on their live timeline, too.

Further: There is no news at all, we can only choose among name brands.

Horseshit to the OP. RT is the best mainstream news station out there by a very long shot. They're the only ones interviewing, for instance, Keith Harmon Snow, a couple weeks ago amidst the "Kony" bullshit. They're the only ones, for instance, giving Julian Assange a show. They're the only ones covering tons of angles that the western press ignores. We have to live in reality. Does RT represent Russia's interests? No shit Sherlock. In the complex world of today I'll take that a hundred times over the west, though we should certainly look at both.

Furthermore, if you start saying "don't ever cite xyz," then where do you stop? You only cite Pacifica shows like "Democracy Now"? Doesn't make any sense. Furthermore, "Democracy Now" cites mainstream news all the time. Sometimes I link to Fox News; local affiliates sometimes carry legitimate stories.

You're worried about what, being branded a Marxist? Speak for yourself, pal. We could use a little more bona fide Marxism, amidst all the third rail bullshit of today. Time to get back to some basics of class warfare.

I've struck a chord. Considering someone's aggressive tone...

My point is that RT is quickly being the voice of progressive liberals and the standard setter for us in the conspiracy world. This is why RT is unique and can't be compared to other brands. If you cannot recognize this as a problem, you are blind.

By using RT as cited media, you are supporting the aims in which oligarchy created RT.

therefore

going from support of Russian oligarchy's propaganda aims to support of that oligarchy itself is easy to imply.

I don't care who they have or what truth they speak - it's what they represent. You wouldn't tune into the Aryan Nations satellite feed because, gosh darn it, they are the best mainstream news station out there by a very long shot. Or would you?

Occult Means Hidden wrote:This is why RT is unique and can't be compared to other brands. If you cannot recognize this as a problem, you are blind.

I guess I'm blind?

Please narrate for me what separates RT from all other brands and what the specific "problem" is -- bear in mind that although I understand what colors are in concept, I've never actually seen them.

I suspect this might be about loops -- I'm just not in a loop where RT gets cited very often. I do see a lot of TruthOut, a lot of Information Clearinghouse, a lot of Prison Planet, a lot of Nation, a lot of MSNBC, a lot of Alternet, etc.

Is Russian intelligence really worse than GE, though? I'm not even sure how to evaluate that.

Hi OMH. I think you've probably hit directly upon RT's function, and being aware of the use to which it is being put is essential. But what I don't understand is — if their probable function is kept clearly in mind — why citing video from this source (for example) would be a bad thing. Mightn't that actually be using their own resources against them?

Yeah, the Aryan Nations channel is pretty terrible. Very low production values, they get into brawls inside the damn studio during broadcasts and after 11 pm, the content starts getting very creepy and weird. All in all, the content is so bad you find yourself wishing they'd run advertisements just to break up the monotony.

Same purpose as al jazeera, different bunch of oligarchs.

I can't combat snark all day.

Quotes against the OP:

"i hate to break it to you but"

"no shit sherlock"

"horseshit""

"speak for yourself, pal"

"although I understand what colors are..."

I have feelings, too. Of course you can do all what you want regardless of my opinion. I have a bit of a zero tolerance for fascism. But if the production content is good... Maybe it's not so bad? If only RENSE has better production value and state backing...

" I'm just not in a loop where RT gets cited very often"

Refer to my OP. It bares repeating, apparently, "has grown to be the second largest foreign news channel in the US, after the BBC by viewership" And likely will overtake.

"Please narrate for me what separates RT from all other brands and what the specific "problem" is"

Again, on repeat: "RT is quickly being the voice of progressive liberals and the standard setter for us in the conspiracy world. This is why RT is unique and can't be compared to other brands. " RT is moving into a position that it represents us, of the deep and alternative conspiracy media set.