Aurora CO Theater Massacre

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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby Nordic » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:06 am

Hm, good point. I need to get out more.
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:03 am

Wombaticus Rex wrote:Also -- great catch on Ayn Navy! Her story really complicates the timeline and the single shooter theory.


Hmmm, I wasn't really thinking about that when I read it. Her boyfriend's account is linked from that site as well, but I haven't checked that out yet, there might be more of interest in there.

Can you outline how her account f's up the official narrative? She almost says which part of the film the shooter(s) entered (or re-entered) the cinema at, but is there more that I've missed somehow?

Lupercal, to your credit you were right about some aspects of the Breivik attacks (there did turn out to be film and pictures taken by victims, which I doubted would be the case at the time, and not only were some kids brave enough to shadow Breivik around a part of the island but two Serbian boys actually threw rocks at the back of his head, which was confirmed by Breivik at trial) but is there any reason to get dogmatic on this event at this early stage? Holmes might well be a patsy, there might well have been other shooters present, and the repeatedly fluctuating number of military and intelligence personnel present in the theatre might point to targetted assassinations of people who knew too much covered over by a seemingly random spree killing set up to look like it was committed by a young man who is now so doped that he can't defend himself, but is there any point in saying these things as if they are proven facts when, at the moment, they are not?

Can I ask if you still think Breivik was set up as a fall guy, and heavily drugged during his arraignment, and also when he was being transported in the cop car to jail in the early days after his capture? Then maybe hypnotised/mind-controlled while in custody into acting like he did at his trial?

Only asking, I have no stake in proving that he acted through his own choice, or any means of proving that he did, or indeed of proving that he was the only or even the shooter on Utoya.
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:44 am

CU Psychiatrist Called Threat-Team Members About Holmes

Sources Tell CALL7 Investigators Dr. Lynne Fenton Had Concerns About Holmes' Behavior Six Weeks Before Shootings

Arthur Kane and John Ferrugia , CALL7 Investigators
POSTED: 10:41 am MDT August 1, 2012
UPDATED: 10:54 pm MDT August 1, 2012

DENVER -- The psychiatrist treating accused Aurora theater gunman James Holmes was so concerned about his behavior that she notified other members of the University of Colorado Behavioral Evaluation and Threat Assessment, or BETA, team that he could potentially be a danger to others, sources with knowledge of the investigation told CALL7 Investigators.
Those concerns surfaced in early June -- almost six weeks before the shooting, sources told CALL7 Investigator John Ferrugia.
Sources say Dr. Lynne Fenton, who treated Holmes this spring, contacted several members of the BETA team in separate conversations. According to the university website, the BETA team consists of "key" staff members from various CU departments who have specific expertise in dealing with assessing potential threats on campus. And, sources say, officials at the University of Colorado never contacted Aurora police with Fenton’s concerns before the July 20 killings.

ABC News learned Fenton was a key member in setting up BETA in 2010, and she is currently one of the contacts for anyone who has concerns about an on-campus threat. A University of Colorado spokeswoman acknowledged that Fenton is one of several trained CU contacts who can convene the team in consultation with the chairman.
“Fenton made initial phone calls about engaging the BETA team” in “the first 10 days” of June but it “never came together” because in the period Fenton was having conversations with team members, James Holmes began the process of dropping out of school, a source said.
In a news conference last week, CU Anschutz Medical Campus Graduate School Dean Barry Shur said Holmes dropped out of the CU Ph.D Neuroscience program on June 10th. "My understanding he has not been back on campus where the program is since that time," he said last week.
Holmes lost his access to secure areas of the school June 12, according to the CU spokeswoman.
Sources said when Holmes withdrew, the BETA team “had no control over him."
Holmes has been charged with the murders of 12 people and shooting of 58 others July 20 in an Aurora movie theater during the premier of the new Batman movie.
Sources did not know what Holmes told Fenton that sparked her concern.
“It takes more than just statements,” said one source, explaining that Holmes would have had to tell Fenton “something specific" before she would have to report it to law enforcement.
“He would have to tell her he had taken steps to make it happen,” said another source.
But an expert in threat assessment told ABC News that the warning signs were there, and CU should likely have done more when Holmes quit the university.
"I think that is the signal that you should intensify your efforts -- not walk away," said Barry Spodak." Under those circumstances, most well-trained assessment teams would have gone into action."
One source also told Ferrugia that the team may not have been convened because while Fenton had “serious concerns, there may not have been an immediate threat.”
Sources familiar with the investigation do not know if Fenton stopped treating Holmes after he dropped out of CU. It’s also not known whether Fenton referred Holmes to any other mental health assistance, or if there was further contact with him or about him.
Sources also say, after the shootings, Aurora police interviewed at least one person that Fenton contacted to discuss her concerns about Holmes.
During the period when, sources say, Fenton contacted fellow BETA team members, Holmes did not do well on an oral presentation on June 7. It is also unclear whether Holmes could find a mentor to help him as required for continuing in the Ph.D program. On the same day, June 7, Holmes legally purchased an AR-15 rifle, according to ABC News.
James Holmes had no criminal record.
CU Chancellor Don Elliman said at a news conference the school did everything properly. “To the best of our knowledge at this point we did everything that we think we should have done,” he said last week.
Michael Carrigan, chairman of the CU board of regents, told CALL7 Investigators that he did not know if Holmes had ever been discussed by the BETA team.
"It's the first I'm hearing about this," he said in a phone interview.
A CU spokeswoman declined comment on Fenton or any BETA team actions, citing a gag order.
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby elfismiles » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:20 am

To those of you who feel certain JH is a patsy:

Are there ANY shootings (rage / spree / amok / copycats) you think weren't staged? Which ones?
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby Hammer of Los » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:48 am

...

I would say loads of spree killings aren't "staged."

But this aurora incident.

It looks very suspicious to me.

That may be on account of any number of reasons.

It's a rabbit hole fer sure.

Wait and see.

Actually, I resent wasting the time doing the research on it.

I should just get on with my original writing and art projects.

...
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:35 am

Hammer of Los wrote:Actually, I resent wasting the time doing the research on it.

...


:thumbsup

Came to the same conclusion -- let's strike my timeline comment from the records, none of the data points here are reliable and my interest in the subject has, thank fuck, left me.
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby MacCruiskeen » Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:14 pm

barracuda wrote:
undead wrote:I'm not really invested in any particular story I was just remarking that it is pretty impressive for this kid to bust in with a massive assault rifle and a shot gun AND teargas AND full body armor and shoot up the place. That shit has to be really heavy.


Holmes was not wearing full body armor.


???

Slate:



CBS:

Aurora Police Chief Daniel Oates said he lobbed gas canisters at the crowd, then opened fire. By the time police arrived, 90 seconds later, he had shot dozens of people because his rifle was modified with a high-powered drum magazine that allowed him to fire immense amounts of bullets without reloading. "It was a pretty rapid pace of fire in that theater," Oates said.

Oates said the shooter wore a ballistic helmet, gas mask, throat-protector, tactical vest and pants.

On CBS' "Face the Nation" Sunday, Oates said the responding officers almost mistook Holmes for a member of the SWAT team his protective gear was so complete.


(Watch at left)

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-574 ... ontentBody


Business Insider/National Post:

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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby barracuda » Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:40 pm

As in your post above, Mac, I've seen Holmes' upper body covering described as both a ballistic vest and a tactical vest. A tactical vest is not body armor. And there are a lot of different kinds of ballistic vests. So I'm gonna err on the side of less protection rather than more, because I see no reason not to. The hard-core Terminator-style graphic above out of the Business Insider doesn't seem to reflect the appearance of his gear on the ground outside the theater:

Image

But again, looking at their price list, there's no way the guy spent $20,000 on his rig. More like $3000.
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby lupercal » Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:27 pm

AhabsOtherLeg wrote:Lupercal, to your credit you were right about some aspects of the Breivik attacks . . . but is there any reason to get dogmatic on this event at this early stage? Holmes might well be a patsy . . . but is there any point in saying these things as if they are proven facts when, at the moment, they are not?

Not sure where you're getting this as you don't provide links or quotes, but for the record my last post in this thread is here:
Subject: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

lupercal wrote:^ Those are good reasons to think he's a patsy, which I'm not disputing, but not to think he did any shooting. Has he been positively identified by any witnesses? Have any clearly identifiable photos of Holmes in the theater, taken by cell-phone, security camera, or otherwise, been released? Has he confessed to knowledge of any details of the crime? Has he shown any medical evidence of having fired weapons? To my knowledge the answers are no, and I'd find any such evidence deeply suspect simply because patsies and shooters are usually different players, and Holmes like many other patsies shows a friendly willingness to please but nothing remotely sinister, despite the red hair, at least so far, though the narrative could change.

I don't believe I said anything dogmatic or described anything as a proven fact.

The Breivik/Brevik issue is indeed relevant, and after reviewing reports and photos from the trial, which evidently wasn't sealed after all, nothing I've found has changed my view of that operation, so I'm confident that Brevik is a patsy who neither car-bombed Oslo nor carried out a mass assassination on Utoya, though he seems to believe that he did.
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby barracuda » Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:52 pm

AhabsOtherLeg wrote:there did turn out to be film and pictures taken by victims,


Is any of that material posted on ye olde World Wide Web?

lupercal wrote:A "young man 'going off'" is a essentially the lone-nut theory which is a form of magical thinking.


The "lone-nut theory" is nomenclature derived from the JFK assassination. In that particular case, yes, I'd agree it represents wishfulness, because time and again it has been demonstrated that the feat Oswald is accused of would be damned near physically impossible for him to have accomplished. That is hardly the case with Aurora. These killings were nothing if not easy to do. I've rarely seen a situation in which the idiom "shooting fish in a barrel" is a more apt description. You could have killed those twelve people in that theater with your eyes closed.

It's fascinating to see how the terminology and thought processes of deep-state analysis have been watered down to fit these kinds of events, killings in which there isn't a shred of motive that can be reasonably assigned to state actors beyond the most vague and ridiculous. I mean...

changing the 2012 campaign narrative, i.e. bailing out MittBane,

distraction from foreign policy misteps (Syria, Bandar)

improving the climate of opinion for the security state (gun sales have spiked as they usually do after high-profile mass shootings, with no sign of "gun control" on the horizon, also usual).


...these are not motives. This is overt straw-grasping. There's no "cui bono" there at all. You've just sincerely put forth the idea that the state apparatus would create a false flag domestic mass killing to distract attention from the events in Syria?? That's a theory? Allow me to be the first to inform you that no one in the United States gives a flying fuck about Syria or Bandar. And this:

eliminating inconvenient persons in the local intel sector, i.e. the intel unit at Buckley AFB


...has no more resonance than saying Rebecca Ann Wingo was targeted because she had stumbled upon some secrets about the harmful nature of specific medical imaging technology. It's just making shit up to build a narrative that hopes to borrow legitimacy from real, actual deep-state activity, and in the process dilutes the understanding of all of it.

I sympathize with the impulse to find a higher power here. It's hard to come to terms with the idea that someone could do such a thing, especially someone stupid enough to think he would resemble the Joker by dyeing his hair the wrong color, someone damaged enough to think he should commit a massacre in a crowded theater, someone who's quite obviously suffering from a severe case of buyer's remorse. But if your take on it essentially boils down to "I don't understand it, so it must be a conspiracy", my feeling is that's just a coping mechanism for dealing with the trauma. You might as well be asking Jesus for guidance.

It's worth keeping in mind that these kinds of massacres happen daily in other occupied and militarized parts of the world, and it's pretty much only when it happens to white folks in America - and soldiers, no less - that we begin flailing around trying to pin the act with the familiar labels: false flag, deep state conspiracy, patsy. The truth is that massacres like this are a time-honored tradition as American as apple pie. Why that is so is far more interesting to ponder than the tiny scraps of ambiguity that permit the conspiracy tropes to spring into their accustomed and facile positions. Weirdness is where you find it.
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby lupercal » Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:16 pm

Such a beautiful rant. After a certain point, say page 34, carefully supporting each point with links and quotes becomes counterproductive, so yes I mostly left them out, and now that we're on page 40 let's focus on just one point:

barracuda wrote:
lupercal wrote:improving the climate of opinion for the security state (gun sales have spiked as they usually do after high-profile mass shootings, with no sign of "gun control" on the horizon, also usual).


...these are not motives. This is overt straw-grasping. There's no "cui bono" there at all.


There is indeed a cui bono, a predictable one too, to the tune of 41%:

Image

Gun Sales Up As High As 41% After Aurora, Colorado Shooting

http://z6mag.com/featured/gun-sales-up- ... o-shooting


Why gun sales spike after mass shootings: It's not what you might think

After the Colorado shooting, gun sales have risen around the country. For some, it's because they want to buy a gun for self-protection. But there's a bigger reason, gun-shop owners say.
By Linda Feldmann, Monitor Staff writer / July 25, 2012
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder ... ight-think


After Aurora shooting, Colorado gun sales up

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ ... video.html


Etc etc. The fact is that mass shootings hugely increase arms sales, licensing requests, demand for weapons generally, and popular disdain of gun control regulation and have very little actual legislative effect on controlling weapon sales.
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby barracuda » Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:41 pm

This is a false flag perpetrated by the NRA-minati? The American Gun Association underground? The counter-revolutionary arm of the Gun Owners of America?

Yes, gun sales escalate after widely publicized shootings. How is that a motive in a country in which the second amendment will NEVER be violated as a sacrosanct guiding principle of life?
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby Luther Blissett » Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:50 pm

The second amendment will only die with the very last vestiges of American empire as most of us lay smoldering in a desert.
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby 8bitagent » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:13 pm

lupercal wrote:
The Breivik/Brevik issue is indeed relevant, and after reviewing reports and photos from the trial, which evidently wasn't sealed after all, nothing I've found has changed my view of that operation, so I'm confident that Brevik is a patsy who neither car-bombed Oslo nor carried out a mass assassination on Utoya, though he seems to believe that he did.


Often the role of patsies or mind control subjects is for them to "enjoy", be a part of and claim credit(often sole credit) for their action. Such as Timothy Mcveigh or Anders Breivik. I've no doubt
Breivik was shooting up kids on the island. I've no doubt in "al Qaeda"s role in 9/11, or Mcveigh's deep role in OKC. Doesn't mean they were the masterminds or puppet masters.

The interesting thing about RI is, long after the wind has blown everyone is still looking at scattered remnants looking for clues to fit a particular theory...when such dark winds have moved onto the next horror show. These incidents are not made to be "solved", and may in fact be done in such a manner they cannot be solved. Eleven years later, has anyone "solved" the 9/11 riddle? Doubtful.
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby 8bitagent » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:16 pm

barracuda wrote:

It's worth keeping in mind that these kinds of massacres happen daily in other occupied and militarized parts of the world, and it's pretty much only when it happens to white folks in America - and soldiers, no less - that we begin flailing around trying to pin the act with the familiar labels: false flag, deep state conspiracy, patsy. The truth is that massacres like this are a time-honored tradition as American as apple pie. Why that is so is far more interesting to ponder than the tiny scraps of ambiguity that permit the conspiracy tropes to spring into their accustomed and facile positions. Weirdness is where you find it.


OMG Barracuda...you dont think the Batman Massacre was a staged false flag CIA black ops event? This was clearly done to get Obama re-elected, don't you get it? No wait...no it was done so the gub'ment can take our guns! Errr no wait...hold on I'll think of something...
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