Jimmy Savile: I'd like to comment but I can't...

[TheDuke]

Freddie Starr arrested

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... olice.html

The 69-year-old comedian and entertainer was arrested at 5.45pm on suspicion of sexual offences and taken into police custody close to his Warwickshire home.
A spokesman for Scotland Yard said: “Officers working on Operation Yewtree have this evening, Thursday 1 November, arrested a man in his 60s in connection with the investigation.
“The man, from Warwickshire, was arrested at approximately 17.45 hrs on suspicion of sexual offences, and has been taken into police custody locally. The individual falls under the strand of the investigation we have termed 'Savile and others'.”
Starr is the second person to be arrested in connection with the Savile abuse scandal after shamed singer Gary Glitter was questioned on Sunday.
Police launched a criminal investigation into the Savile abuse claims after it emerged that allegations had been made against a number of living people.

Starr, who lives in Warwickshire with his 34-year-old fiancée, Sophie Lea, was implicated in the scandal after a woman alleged on an ITV documentary that he had molested her when she was a 14-year-old.
Karin Ward claimed Starr had groped her when she had appeared on the television show Clunk Click with Jimmy Savile in the 1970s.
Starr initially denied ever having met Mrs Ward, but later changed his story, when footage appeared of them on the programme together.
Starr has vehemently denied ever sexually assaulting anyone and last week spoke of his willingness to be interviewed by police in order to clear his name.
Detectives are have identified more than 300 alleged victims of abuse which have been broken down into three categories; those who were abused by Savile, those who were abused by Savile and other and those who were abused by others.

[gnosticheresy_2]

‏@iainoverton
If all goes well we've got a Newsnight out tonight about a very senior political figure who is a paedophile.

[MacCruiskeen]

Andrew O'Hagan wrote The Missing (1996) and Our Fathers (2001). His latest essay in the London Review of Books is a strong piece of social history, and well worth reading in full.

Non-Brits especially may find O'Hagan's article illuminating. It places the Savile affair in a vividly-evoked social context, and it gives a convincing analysis of what Entertainment has meant in Britain since Savile's early days as an obscure Mancunian dancehall manager in the 1950s and his sudden rise to fame on national TV.

Some extracts:

Light Entertainment
Andrew O’Hagan writes about child abuse and the British public

LRB, Vol. 34 No. 21 · 8 November 2012
pages 5-8 | 7344 words

http://cdn.lrb.co.uk/v34/n21/andrew-oha ... ertainment

[...]

One of the qualities that made the journey from radio to television was ‘personality’. Suddenly, you had these human beings who were ultra-everything: they were funnier and quicker and smarter than you – and, once on television, they were prettier, too. At the BBC these people became like gods. Even the weird ones. Even the ones whom everybody could tell were deranged. They had personality and that was the gold standard. Soon enough the notion of ‘men being men’ was extended, institutionally, into that’s just ‘Frankie being Frankie’ or ‘Jimmy being Jimmy’. We never asked whether a certain derangement was a crucial part of their talent.

And so you open Pandora’s box to find the seedy ingredients of British populism. It’s not just names, or performers and acts, it’s an ethos. Why is British light entertainment so often based on the sexualisation of people too young to cope? And why is it that we have a press so keen to feed off it? Is it to cover the fact, via some kind of willed outrage, that the culture itself is largely paedophile in its commercial and entertainment excitements? Milly Dowler’s phone was hacked by journalists cynically feeding the ravenous appetites of three million people who love that stuff, and that’s just the ones who actually bought the News of the World. When Leveson’s findings are duly buried, will we realise that it was the nation’s populist appetites that were on trial all along?

We’re not allowed to say it. Because we love our tots. Or, should I say: WE LOVE OUR TOTS? We know we do because the Mirror tells us we do, but would you please get out of the way because you’re blocking my view of another 14-year-old crying her eyes out on The X-Factor as a bunch of adults shatter her dreams. Savile went to work in light entertainment and thrived there: of course he did, because those places were custom-built for men who wanted to dandle dreaming kids on their knees. If you grew up during ‘the golden era of British television’, the 1970s, when light entertainment was tapping deep into the national unconscious, particularly the more perverted parts, you got used to grown-up men like Rod Hull clowning around on stage with a girl like Lena Zavaroni. You got used to Hughie Green holding the little girl’s hand and asking her if she wanted an ice-cream. Far from wanting an ice-cream, the little girl was starving herself to death while helpfully glazing over for the camera and throwing out her hands and singing ‘Mama, He’s Making Eyes at Me’. She was 13.

There’s something creepy about British light entertainment and there always has been. Joe Orton meets the Marquis de Sade at the end of the pier, with a few Union Jacks fluttering in the stink and a mother-in-law tied in bunting to a ducking-stool. Those of us who grew up on it liked its oddness without quite understanding how creepy it was. I mean, Benny Hill? And then we wake up one day, in 2012, and wonder why so many of them turned out to be deviants and weirdos. Our papers explode in outrage and we put on our Crucible expressions before setting off to the graveyard to take down the celebrity graves and break them up for landfill. Of course. Graffiti the plaques and take down the statues, because the joy of execration must match the original sin, when we made heroes out of these damaged and damaging ‘entertainers’. We suddenly wish them to have been normal, when all we ever ask of our celebrities is that they be much more fucked up than we are. And what do we do now? Do we burn the commemorative programmes, scratch their names from the national memory?

The public made Jimmy Savile. It loved him. It knighted him. The Prince of Wales accorded him special rights and the authorities at Broadmoor gave him his own set of keys. A whole entertainment structure was built to house him and make him feel secure. That’s no one’s fault: entertainment, like literature, thrives on weirdos, and Savile entered a culture made not only to tolerate his oddness but to find it refreshing. We can’t say so. We can’t know how to admit it because we don’t know who we are. ‘This is the worst crisis I can remember in my nearly fifty years at the BBC,’ John Simpson said on Panorama. ‘It’s off the scale of everybody’s belief system,’ said the DJ Paul Gambaccini.

But it is our belief system. And now it is part of the same system to blame Savile. He’s dead, anyway. Let’s blame him for all the things he obviously was, and blame him for a host of other things we don’t understand, such as how we love freaks and how we select and protect people who are ‘eccentric’ in order to feed our need for disorder. We’ll blame him for that too and say we never knew there would be any victims, when, in fact, we depend on there being victims. Savile just wouldn’t have been worth so much to us without his capacity to hurt. He was loved for being so rich and so generous and for loving his mother, the Duchess. And no one said, not out loud: ‘What’s wrong with that man? Why is he going on like that? What is he up to?’ He was an entertainer and that’s thought to be special. A more honest society brings its victims to the Colosseum and cheers. We agreed to find it OK when our most famous comedians were clearly not OK. When Benny Hill’s mother died, in 1976, he kept her house in Southampton as a shrine, just as Savile kept his mother’s clothes, and it might have been weird but it was also the kind of celebrity eccentricity we had come to expect.

http://cdn.lrb.co.uk/v34/n21/andrew-oha ... ertainment

[...]

Child abuse is now a national obsession, but in 1963 it scarcely came up as a subject of public concern. That doesn’t mean it was fine back then and we were all better off, but it allows one to see how much the public understanding of what isn’t all right, or more or less all right, has changed. There have always been genuine causes for concern, but overall, nowadays there is an unmistakeable lack of proportion in the way we talk about the threat posed to children by adults. (It’s hard not to imagine that the situation has to do with a general estrangement from the notion of a reliable community.) The 1960s, on the other hand, seem like a sexual kaleidoscope made of unusual colours, out of focus, out of order, but not ‘out’. There is always a dark lining to permission – asking for it, granting it – and 1963 was a moment of blurring more than a moment of clarity. Women might have worn shorter skirts and gone on the pill but society still didn’t – and still doesn’t – sexually know itself as well as it might.

[...]

http://cdn.lrb.co.uk/v34/n21/andrew-oha ... ertainment

[slimmouse]

One of the gutsiest articles ive seen in quite some time from a mainstream publication;

For many it reeks of an establishment cover-up, though for years detractors referred to it as “conspiracy theory”.

Savile’s BBC colleague David Icke, who went from respected broadcaster to laughing stock, was at the forefront of such claims in the Nineties when he named Savile and others as paedophiles.

Icke claimed Savile supplied children from Jersey’s infamous Haut de la Garenne care home to a senior British MP. Savile denied knowing the home, the scene of a police investigation in 2008 that uncovered widespread child abuse. He lied. There is pictorial evidence of him there.

Last week, during Prime Minister’s Questions, Labour MP Tom Watson raised the issue of a paedophile ring in Parliament and alluded to a former PM. David Cameron, all perplexed, said he would look into it. Minutes after PMQs, Tory MP Rob Wilson was on Sky News appearing to laugh off Watson’s claims.

This cannot go on. It was these sorts of hasty dismissals that helped Savile get away with it. People laughed it off and claimed “nutters” were saying it

Well I can tell Mr Cameron that this claim is not sensational, anything but. In fact Tom Watson has barely scratched the surface..

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/354 ... lty-secret

As the article points out, this is of course the same "Sir" Jimmy Saville, ( mysteriously decorated up to his eyeballs in any amount of establishment bling given his recorded past, or at least to the average, uninitiated prole ) who denied ever being at Haute La Garrenne. Theres a couple of images on this forum that also prove that to be false.

Isn't it great that "yew tree" is picking up all these celebrities? LOL. I reckon the sooner people realise where this really leads the better off we'll all be. Perhaps it's time to remove some heads from inside their rectums? At least in the sense of people better understanding the true nature of the world we live in. We live in hope.

David Cameron looking all perplexed. I'll bet. I'll bet "they've" got plenty of stuff on Rob Wilson too.

[gnosticheresy_2]

Laurence Lee ‏@gregorsamsa1967

out already: #BBC newsnight set to allege that lord mcalpine is a paedophile on the prog tonight. Currently being legalled. He will sue

https://twitter.com/gregorsamsa1967/sta ... 5904120832

[Wombaticus Rex]

Mac, thanks so much for the Andrew O’Hagan piece. Fucking stellar writing, clarity, everything.

Highly recommend it to anyone who passed it over -- huge dose of perspective.

I would also note that, were I to post the link and some excerpts, I would have gone with different passages...always a reliable sign of a worthy essay.

[slimmouse]

Well its true that the public did indeed "make" Jimmy Saville.

In the same way that they made JFK

One of them acted in a truly sick way, whilst cavorting with people in echelons of power, who must have known of his activities, and lived to a ripe old age within seemingly inpenetrable defences.

The president of the USA of course had no such luck.

How does that work exactly?

[Project Willow]

https://theconversation.edu.au/jimmy-savile-gary-glitter-and-the-politics-of-paedophile-rings-10461

Jimmy Savile, Gary Glitter and the politics of paedophile rings
Michael Salter

In Britain, the sexual abuse allegations against television personality Jimmy Savile have now implicated glam rocker Gary Glitter and comedian Freddie Starr. Police have intimated that other high-profile arrests are forthcoming.

These developments have finally given credence to the accounts of many victims – who over the years have maintained that Savile was part of an organised group of men who shared his sexual interest in minors.

Terms such as “paedophile rings” and “child sex rings” have begun to surface in public discussion. It is often unclear what these terms mean, leaving such allegations vulnerable to being discredited or dismissed out of hand. Already, sceptics are claiming a “witch hunt” is afoot.

My research on organised sexual abuse, in which multiple adults conspire to abuse multiple children, suggests that a culture of abuse can develop within some peer groups, institutions and even families.

It is well recognised that commonly held views about masculinity, sexuality and power are used by offenders to legitimise child abuse. In some circumstances, the abuse of children and women can become a means of male bonding. This form of abuse is poorly understood by investigators.

Victims can find it very difficult finding someone to take them seriously. An independent 2010 report into child protection in Britain, which was not made public but was quoted in the UK print media, found child victims of sexually abusive groups were often ignored by the authorities. One victim complained:

The authorities did not understand what was happening to us, either because they did not believe us or because they could not comprehend that something as serious as this was possible.

Until his death in 2011, Savile was a much-loved British media personality. Now, he is the subject of allegations of sexual abuse from at least 300 victims dating back decades. Questions have been raised about how much friends and colleagues knew about, and potentially colluded in, these crimes.

Some of Savile’s associates have linked his behaviour to the “hedonistic culture” of the 1960s and 1970s, where teenage girls supposedly “threw” themselves at famous men. These men, in turn, “never asked for anybody’s birth certificate”.

This suggests that sexual abuse is a situation in which adult men are sexually targeted by minors rather than the other way around. These inversions of responsibility are common among sex offenders. However, they circulate in the wider community as well, and victims of sex offences are often held responsible for their own victimisation.

Self-serving accounts of “free love” are in stark contrast to the perspectives provided by the victims of Savile and others. They recount humiliating ordeals devoid of consent or pleasure; some appear to have had a co-ordinated, organised dimension. Some women have described instances in which sexually abusive men working in a range of institutions facilitated Savile’s access to vulnerable children ostensibly under the guise of media or charity work.

Accounts of organised abuse have circled around Savile for some years. They have not been acted upon until now. Investigations into Savile’s involvement in the abuse of children at the Haut de la Garenne children’s home in Jersey, dismissed in 2008 for “lack of evidence”, have now been reopened. New evidence has not emerged. Simply put, there is new pressure on the relevant authorities to be seen to be taking these allegations seriously.

What counts as evidence in sexual abuse allegations is in the eye of the beholder. Where the victim’s account contains controversial elements such as a high-profile offender or multiple perpetrators, it can become tempting for investigators to label the victim’s account as little more than hearsay.

Convicted paedophile and former pop star Gary Glitter has been arrested in connection with the Jimmy Savile investigation. EPA/Tal Cohen

This temptation is particularly strong where the victim presents as troubled, mentally ill or disadvantaged in comparison to the offender. But sexual offenders can selectively target vulnerable children because they know they are less likely to be believed if they disclose. When they become adults, victims of organised abuse are deemed to make poor witnesses due to the mental health consequences of severe abuse and the years that have passed since the offences were committed. They are a group of sexual abuse survivors who are considered, quite literally, beyond belief. Hence they are often placed beyond help.

The official response to the abuse allegations against Savile is following a well-worn path, in which disinterest and inaction suddenly transforms into fury and a flurry of activity. Too often, once the media spotlight moves on, this activity dies down leaving the status quo intact, as the needs of vulnerable children and victimised adults continue to go unmet.

The question remains whether the multitude of inquiries and investigations into Savile’s activities will catalyse real change or simply return us to “business as usual” once the pressure is off.

[fruhmenschen]

Here is another pedophile story.

FBI CIP ( FBI Coverup in Progress)

FBI agent erases his cell phone messages so he won't get busted for pedophilia.

Contact Senators Grassely and Leahy and your own two Senators tell them you have zero tolerance for FBI pedophiles

reference this Legal Document and the original story posted below

http://www.ticklethewire.com/wp-content ... 645923.pdf





see link for full story
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.c ... ppines.php

FBI Agent Accused Of Paying For Potentially Underage Prostitutes
Ryan J. Reilly September 25, 2012, 1:20 PM 3214

An undercover FBI agent has been accused of using taxpayer money to pay for prostitutes in the Philippines for himself and the subjects of a federal investigation. A federal defense attorney for 25-year-old Sergio Santiago Syjuco said in a court filing last week that the unnamed agent “spent thousands of taxpayer dollars on prostitutes for himself and for the defendants.”

Many of the prostitutes, Deputy Federal Public Defender John Littrell said, were likely minors, citing a raid earlier this year which rescued 60 victims of sex trafficking from one of the locations. Littrell is asking a federal court to toss the case against his client due to “outrageous governmental misconduct” involving the prostitutes, as first reported by TickleTheWire.com.

Syjuco and two co-defendants were charged with violating arms import laws earlier this year. They allegedly sold a number of weapons, including a grenade launcher, to the undercover agent who said he wanted such weapons to be used by drug cartels along the Mexican-U.S. border.

The defense attorney also disclosed a letter from federal prosecutors that recounted reimbursements from the trips to the clubs. The feds said the undercover agent spent $14,500 on eight particular days in 2010 and 2011, including at suspected brothels “Air Force One” and “Area 51” in the Philippines.

The letter from prosecutors, however, maintained the undercover agent “did not engage in prostitution, nor did he solicit prostitutes for himself or your clients.” Prosecutors wrote that they believed two defendants in the case engaged in prostitution at the clubs and “shifted the cost of their acts to the undercover when he paid the bar bill, which did not list ‘prostitute’ as a line item.” They said they didn’t have copies of the actual receipts.

“Air Force One” manager Gerry Albrido told investigators for the defense team that the FBI agent, going by the name of “Richard Han,” was “abusive and degrading” to the prostitutes.

“One on occasion, Han demanded that several prostitutes in the club line up and drink five shots of hard liquor,” Litrell wrote. “Most of the girls did so, but one them, who was very small, could not drink the liquor and poured it out. Mr. Alberight stated that Han yelled at the girl and forced her to drink the alcohol until she vomited.”

Litrell told the Associated Press that he had “never seen anything like this during my career as a criminal defense lawyer.” In a court filing, he said such actions would be “serious federal crimes” if committed by a private citizen.

[Jeff]

Newsnight claims 'leading Tory from Thatcher years was part of paedophile ring who raped boys at Welsh children's home'... but BBC sparks new fury by failing to NAME 'shadowy' politician

By Martin Robinson and Leon Watson

PUBLISHED: 12:35 GMT, 2 November 2012

Fresh allegations that a 'leading politician from the Thatcher years' was at the centre of a widespread paedophile ring were aired on the BBC's Newsnight programme tonight.

Alleged abuse victim Steven Messham told Newsnight he was raped more than a dozen times after being picked up in a car that turned at night at the children's home in North Wales where he lived.

Newsnight described the man as 'a shadowy figure of high public standing'.

Mr Messham, who made his allegations to the North Wales Child Abuse Tribunal but claims they were ignored, said 'various things would happen' at the hands of a senior Tory politician and he was 'basically raped'.

...

He said: 'When I made a statement to the police the police crossed [his name] out and said there was no point.'

...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z2B6tQbqyz

[seemslikeadream]

One of the gutsiest articles ive seen in quite some time from a mainstream publication;

[i]For many it reeks of an establishment cover-up, though for years detractors referred to it as “conspiracy theory”.

Savile’s BBC colleague David Icke, who went from respected broadcaster to laughing stock, was at the forefront of such claims in the Nineties when he named Savile and others as paedophiles.

Icke claimed Savile supplied children from Jersey’s infamous Haut de la Garenne care home to a senior British MP. Savile denied knowing the home, the scene of a police investigation in 2008 that uncovered widespread child abuse. He lied. There is pictorial evidence of him there.

David Icke not a paedophile denier......just sayin'

[GuyWhoInventedFire]

Apologies if this has been suggested already and I missed it, but I was thinking about all these revelations today whilst taking my kids out for lunch (wondering what could possess someone to do such unspeakable things...), and the question you see posed by readers everywhere, from fringe blog to mainstream news medium, is why was Savile given keys and free access to the hospital? Why did he need access to the mortuary?

The necrophiliac angle has been suggested a number of times in the media, but it occurred to me, if Savile was the 'fixer' and arranged and procured, surely he then cleaned up and disposed, as well. Could the hospital access have been a cover for him to dispose of bodies, and is the necrophilia line an attempt to shock the public from venturing down that train of thought?

[Wombaticus Rex]

^^Quite a reasonable theory, and I especially like the warm fuzzy aspect whereby the reader is pardoned from having to contemplate the mechanics and motivations of necro-sexuality. Alas, the more plausible scenario, given Savile's own copious weird statements and compared against witness testimony, sourced and anonymous, is that his interest in mortuary keys was mostly recreational and probably partly professional, in the procurement sense, not in terms of freelance corpse disposal.

I would also point out that, in terms of body disposal, access to a mortuary is poor risk management / opsec. It works in a TV crime show "clever" kinda way, but in real world terms you are radically increasing points of contact, length of exposure and thus risk of discovery. Actual body disposal is a matter of speed and stealth, evidence is being destroyed to the maximum extent and the remainder concealed as permanently as possible.

Just the same, though: any serious investigators should be doing some signals intelligence (GPR) on those cemeteries -- perhaps there are gravesites with multiple bodies after all.

[gnosticheresy_2]

10 days that shook my world

November 3rd, 2012

It’s ten days since I raised a question about intelligence suggesting a paedophile ring that touched the very heart of a previous government. I’d done so because a very credible retired child protection professional had lived with a gnawing suspicion of a cover up for many years.

These people are the rarest of human beings. They’re the people who labour in anonymity, day in day out, trying to make the world a better place. They have always been the foundations of our public services. Yet this retired public servant had, through a quirk of fate, stumbled on something that appeared so huge, that almost everyone he’d ever raised his concerns with had baulked at the challenge.

Since then though, many more ordinary people have contacted me about suspicions they have had of a wider wrongdoing – in some cases so heinous it made me cry.

They have talked of psychopaths marking children with Stanley knifes to show “ownership”. They tell of parties where children were “passed around” the men. They speak of golf course car parks being the scenes for child abuse after an 18 hole round.

And they have named powerful people – some of them household names – who abused children with impunity.

Two former police officers have raised their concerns of cover-ups. Child protection specialists have raised their fears that the network of convicted paedophile Peter Righton, the nexus of the group, was wider than at first thought. Others have identified a former cabinet minister who regularly abused young boys.

Some have raised mysterious early deaths, disappeared children, suspicious fires, intimidation and threats.

It’s bewildering.

These allegations go way beyond the claims made on BBC Newsnight yesterday. Newsnight failed to name the paedophile mentioned by a North Wales survivor. I can understand why. A career can be destroyed by an allegation of such magnitude. There needs to be a high bar of proof.

Yet the thing I learnt most from the hacking scandal, and for that matter, the Savile case, is that the intelligence was staring the police in the face. These people were hiding in daylight. So powerful, so brazen in their actions, those who had an inkling of what was happening turned a blind eye.

Or maybe none of this happened. Maybe the 50 plus emails and numerous phone calls and letters I have received were all from fantasists. Maybe the allegations of the victims – made for many years, consistently to anyone that would listen, maybe they’re bogus.

One thing is for certain: someone has to join the dots. And that should be the police. There are a few hardy child protection specialists who for many years, have been burrowing away, trying to uncover the truth. Their work and insight should be taken more seriously. The police should work with them.

The hacking scandal was about the police failing to follow clear leads of wrongdoing by powerful people. They could do this because politicians turned a blind eye.

This is potentially worse. Some of those powerful people involved in a cover up may well have been – and could still be – powerful politicians.

I’m not going to let this drop despite warnings from people who should know that my personal safety is imperilled if I dig any deeper. It’s spooked me so much that I’ve kept a detailed log of all the allegations should anything happen.

As I type this blog post, I’m half-smiling about how insane all this appears. It sounds like I’ve taken leave of my senses – just like they said I had during the early days of the hacking scandal. Maybe I have. Yet with a properly resourced investigation, with the voice of victims being heard in public and with the political will we can get to the facts.

I wish I could fight the case of everybody who has been abused by a paedophile who has so far got away with it, but I can’t. That is a job for the police. Up and down the country private grief is being stirred by these stories. I cannot help in each individual case, but the police and support services can, must and will. If you were abused a long time ago and want justice now, go to the police. It is not too late.

What I am going to do personally is to speak out on this extreme case of organised abuse in the highest places. At the core of all child abuse is the abuse of power. The fundamental power of the adult over the child. Wherever this occurs it is an abomination. But these extreme cases are abuse of power by some of the most powerful people. Abuse of trust by some of the most trusted. It is a sickening story, but one which – like the truth about Jimmy Savile – is now going to be told.

http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2012/11/10- ... k-my-world

[semper occultus]

^^ soooo Tom planning on speaking out on the Islington Care Homes & Operation Ore D notices or only when it involves the “other side” ?

Just the same, though: any serious investigators should be doing some signals intelligence (GPR) on those cemeteries -- perhaps there are gravesites with multiple bodies after all.

..….given the plethora of weird stuff abroad concerning Savile's links to the Yorkshire Ripper it should be noted Sutcliffe worked as a grave-digger at one stage…..


....there's some material in the book Hunt for Britain's Paedophiles concerning the emergence of snuff-films that has some odd resonances

see the screen-shots for the full monty but the points that stood out to me are highlighted :

..a Luxemboug man of "aristocratic" position is enlisted to distribute these films....a "new type of film for a new clientele".....which locates both socio-economically &/or geographically the target audience for this videodrome signal...

....the fact that supposedly they have never been found by police indicates that they are circulating at a level above that of the reach of existing police operations ....

.....the use of mortuary bodies in the production of pseudo-snuff material....

.....the identification of Northern England as a source of material for distribution into this Euro-paedo elite pipeline....would like to know how that co-locates to Savile...