Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

[8bitagent]

Lupercal, thought ya might wanna see this:

Um...I hope this goes without saying. And I wish it did, because it sounds incredibly presumptuous to me. But in the event that anybody who disagrees with me feels constrained by my having said I thought this stuff was suspect, please don't. I wouldn't say it if I didn't think it was worth considering. But that's really all I'd want anybody to do. And even that's not, like, mandatory, obviously. If it's incompatible with letting your lovelights shine, disregard it.

...

Okay. I feel like an idiot. But there's almost nothng worse than being (or at least feeling) silenced. So I guess I'll err on the side of idiocy.

Carry on as if I hadn't said anything. Literally, if that's how it struck you. It's just my opinion.

ON EDIT: Oh my god. That just looks so self-regarding, I kind of want to delete it out of pure shame. I meant it, though. I very much don't want to be a bully. But, you know. I therefore never intend to be, and yet.

So even though it seems likelier to me that the story's moment has just passed for the present, I guess I'll leave it.

Ugh. Hate myself. Thanks. Carry on.

C2W: I thought I got pretty good sleep, and am totally sober...but I havent the foggiest what you're talking about:( Help?

Oh my post was just to offer a peace branch to Lupercal, since I know Ive been skeptical of the "second shooter" claims.

[compared2what?]

It was no big deal, and not really addressed to you anyway.

But as long as we're just hangin' out, chatting: Thanks so much for posting that 56 Up trailer on the Alex Jones thread in connection with the girl talk. I saw it today, and your having done that prompted me to think about it in ways I never ever would have in a million years otherwise. Which is my favorite kind of gift. Just what I've always wanted, in fact. So. Much appreciated.

[/digression]

[8bitagent]

It was no big deal, and not really addressed to you anyway.

But as long as we're just hangin' out, chatting: Thanks so much for posting that 56 Up trailer on the Alex Jones thread in connection with the girl talk. I saw it today, and your having done that prompted me to think about it in ways I never ever would have in a million years otherwise. Which is my favorite kind of gift. Just what I've always wanted, in fact. So. Much appreciated.

[/digression]

Woot! Well I'm a long time documentary junkie, and I've been following that series for awhile. It reminds me of timelapse footage of when someone tapes a photograph of themselves every week for years and years, and they do a stop motion time lapse. Even just looking at photos of me growing up or as a teen brings back fragmented memories that seem to keep changing as I get older.

[Sounder]

After my contribution that included assertions of the long term nature of imposing a double bind on the general population as a matter of policy, cuda associated my suggestion to look more at the Emilie photos with the notion that the event was ‘faked’ and that no people really died. Being ‘faked’ and ‘no one died’ are two entirely different categories. Willfully confusing those categories helps you maintain your outrage at the ‘morons’ that would suggest this event has markers of fakery.

C2W? continues this implied assertion as to my ‘beliefs’ with the sentence; ‘I mean, it's a narrative that disappears the victims and valorizes/absolves the shooter.’

We all notice the regular introduction of the ‘it didn’t happen’ into the meme-pool, and just as quickly we have assertions of; ‘you are saying it didn’t happen, (you must really be a moron.)

And inasmuch as that fosters this type of a conclusion...

Sounder wrote:I normally stay as far as I can from talk of these ‘tragedies’ because I am forced to compare them with daily tragedies times one thousand that are inflicted all round the world.

...it creates kind of an ideal world for whatever forces have an investment in seeing that the carnage in question continues unchecked.

I would suggest that this ‘ideal world’ is advanced by the effect created via an emotional entrainment exercise that causes people to run to authority, thus bolstering the ability of the dominant narrative structure to hold sway. It is no accident that America, and most other countries no doubt, start their wars with false flag operations. It is so common as to be axiomatic. Fake events can and do motivate large numbers of people to go along with activities they otherwise could not endorse. The purpose and the utility of deep-state operations are found in their usefulness for getting people recommitted to beliefs while in an emotionally distraught state of mind. People in that condition will then tend to work from conclusions and go backwards. Then their beliefs and pretenses, as expressions of ones unconscious drivers, take over leaving empirical evidence as a distant ‘also ran’ in the building of the dominant narrative.

Given that fakery has a very long pedigree, it is entirely reasonable to consider that fakery was involved in this incident also.

And to a lesser extent, to forces that have an investment in continued carnage generally, I guess.

Gratuitous ad on.

Because once you get people habituated to dismissing it on those or similar grounds, you can do it pretty much infinitely with whatever outrage/"outrage" you wish, just by re-jiggering its narrative to fit what you now know to be their requirements for not caring about it.

Oh I do not dismiss as being a tragedy, but I do question the nature of a tragedy where people are dancing on the graves of children to push polarizing agendas. And yes I care; I also care about the children killed in the daycare at the Oklahoma City bombing. Because that operation as well as the several dozen others over the last few decades (if not centuries) that RI type folk generally connect to elements within governments, whether rogue or not; when organized and scripted development of narratives that push an ill informed population into resonance with dominant social cues, whew, there is good reason to question the degree or style of fictional elements that the event seems to carry with it.

In this case the behavior of the Parker family seemed most unsettling. If you think it is appropriate for these folk to be positively giddy because they are in the presence of the Pope, er I mean president, then it’s fair for others to suspect that you carry secret, probably unconscious longing for a strong father figure. Grief consumes, and if you will pardon my saying so, it doesn’t allow you to take time out for photo ops.

C2W? and cuda, if you cannot acknowledge or at least see that category confusion is involved in your extending ‘there seems to be fakery involved’ on to ‘the event didn’t happen’, then I might tend to tip over and consider that you may be speaking in bad faith.

Maybe because I liked this paragraph I overlooked cuda not responding to my protests about what he implies that I believe.

The hidden players in power don't have to cause shit like this to happen, they can easily play upon the emotions of the news-saturated populace to provoke near-panic, distrust among the citizens towards each other, simultaneous demands for both more guns and gun control laws, questions about "mental health", and even further antipathy between the citizens and the government simply by providing a raft of bad information upon which to float any and all theories and concerns. All these issues wind up helping the politicians and their money-men in the long run, providing set after set of issues with which to swing vote blocs and ultimately disenfranchise various groups of people, and much joy is felt across certain swaths of the land.

One thing though, the stuff that ‘the hidden players in power’ do not ‘cause’ to happen does not generally get near as much press as this event is getting. After looking at the list that C2W? posted up thread, it seems that there many incidents of mass violence, with 90% of school shooting linked to SSRI’s that barely make a dent in the news cycle.

And a repeat just because I liked it, Thanks Elihu.

of course it will be worse! there is no fixing this by moving forward with better bans and better controls. fratricide is in that direction. the revolution is BACKWARDS to where we fVcked up in the first place! as alex jones said to piercey (sic)"upwards of 70% of those 11k gun deaths were illegal activity related ("drug" trafficking). as i paraphrased orwell earlier "corruption of language is corruption of thought" (italics mine) corruption of thought is corruption of behavior, corruption of behavior is negative! how is it possible to have a WAR (what a joke) on drugs (whose? which ones? the free-growing plants? seems like a restraint of trade to me but whatever)? there's your corruption, gun violence, prison population right there. so there's a prejudicial ban on some drugs that is the proximate cause of gun violence (not counting the state sanctioned military kind, which is but another example of the corruption of thought) and now, because a zombie on "legal" drugs supposedly randomly whacked some white kids, we want a prejudicial ban on some guns. how in the world (or rings of saturn) do you think that's going to turn out? imo. sorry to be so cynical with peoples feelings but i ain't buyin the bullsh!t...

[barracuda]

There's no point in assuming that the persons who refuse to accept the story as promulgated in the newspapers are somehow free thinking spirits in possession of a higher, more valid truth granted them by their uncommon clarity of thought and insight into the affair. They may not have bought the mainstream narrative, but instead have chosen to spend their common cents with a different authority, and adopted a truth no less borrowed and no less dependent upon the surrender of their thought processes to an intrusive narrative construction, albeit one that may feel as though it fits more snugly into the peg-holes of their particular worldview. I would contend that this purchase still requires a great deal of needless hammering to fit the square in the circle.

Being ‘faked’ and ‘no one died’ are two entirely different categories.

Accepted. And yet this category distinction tells us nothing about what happened. The question here is simple: is Emilie Parker dead? If one thinks she is, then in your opinion, one has run to authority, presumably the authority of the state, for they (along with her parents) are the source of this narrative. If, on the other hand, one thinks she is alive, the possessor of this perspective is, in my opinion, equally responsible for tracing the genesis of this idea, and attributing to the origin the power of authority over them in the same manner that power is contended by you to be held by the state over the holders of the former acceptance of her death. So, I would ask you that question and request that you perform the trace on the information contained in your answer and make a conscious decision as to whether you wish to embrace the power of that second authority over yourself.

If one has come to the conclusion that Emilie is alive, then it is a fairly natural and straightforward progression to come to the extrapolated conclusion that no one died, because, really, why fake her death - and so ineptly - and not the others? And this is exactly the thought-train that has been ridden by any number of commentators on the web: the implicit insinuation if not outright insistence that the entire event was fake. This is one path through which worldviews achieve closed-loop satisfaction via the simple expedient of a child's party dress. I'm not saying it's your worldview, just that this is one thread that unravels the sweater.

Yes, fake events can and do happen, but as a default assumption it is no closer to the truth than any other, which is why we try to examine evidence.

Regarding Oklahoma City in this context, personally I have always accepted that whatever else may have happened or whatever help he may have had, Timothy McVeigh wanted to bomb the Murrah building. So an invocation of the O.C. event, to me, just lends credence to the idea that some people will kill innocent children, and in that way makes Adam Lanza that much more real and possible.

Regarding morons: so far I have yet to hear an explanation from anyone regarding the whereabouts of the third sister, Madeline, missing from the Obama photo-op. So perhaps you could toss out some speculations about that.



Follow the breadcrumbs when you come across them, by all means, but bear in mind they lead just as easily to the witch's house as they do towards home.

[compared2what?]

After my contribution that included assertions of the long term nature of imposing a double bind on the general population as a matter of policy, cuda associated my suggestion to look more at the Emilie photos with the notion that the event was ‘faked’ and that no people really died. Being ‘faked’ and ‘no one died’ are two entirely different categories. Willfully confusing those categories helps you maintain your outrage at the ‘morons’ that would suggest this event has markers of fakery.

I'd be interested to know on what non-gratuitous grounds you're calling that confusion willful. Because with all the will in the world, I can't for the life of me see anyway to understand this...

Now to really step into the muck. Cuda posted these pictures awhile back. This first picture shows Emilie Parker on the right with a red polka dot dress. Please correct me if this is wrong.

Then the next picture has Emilie Parker in the same red polka dot dress positively beaming along with the rest of her family. All this, shortly after having been murdered.

Please correct me if this is wrong.

One may think the sister is wearing Emilie’s dress. Maybe that is the case.

...as anything other than an explicit suggestion that her death was faked and/or that she didn't die.

C2W? continues this implied assertion as to my ‘beliefs’ with the sentence; ‘I mean, it's a narrative that disappears the victims and valorizes/absolves the shooter.’

There is nothing whatsoever in that sentence that implies anyone is a moron. And I was not speaking of your beliefs or those of anybody else on the board. I was talking about the generic features of popular online alterna-narratives for major news events.

We all notice the regular introduction of the ‘it didn’t happen’ into the meme-pool, and just as quickly we have assertions of; ‘you are saying it didn’t happen, (you must really be a moron.)

Unless you can point to an instance of that kind of assertion as a response to that suggestion rather than to the self-evidently rebuttable grounds on which it was being made, I'd say you're willfully conflating categories.

And inasmuch as that fosters this type of a conclusion...

I normally stay as far as I can from talk of these ‘tragedies’ because I am forced to compare them with daily tragedies times one thousand that are inflicted all round the world.

...it creates kind of an ideal world for whatever forces have an investment in seeing that the carnage in question continues unchecked.

I would suggest that this ‘ideal world’ is advanced by the effect created via an emotional entrainment exercise that causes people to run to authority, thus bolstering the ability of the dominant narrative structure to hold sway.

That's an intriguing suggestion.

Where on this thread do you see people running to authority in a way that bolsters the ability of the dominant narrative structure to hold sway over whom or what, with what end in view?

I mean, it's my position that something like that could be happening -- ie, that people are running to online outlets they regard as authoritative in a way that bolsters the ability of the gun lobby to ensure that the same dominant narrative it creates via the simple expedient of outspending the opposition by 17-to-1 continues to hold sway.

But I assume you don't mean that. And yet, I feel sure that you can't mean this:

It is no accident that America, and most other countries no doubt, start their wars with false flag operations. It is so common as to be axiomatic. Fake events can and do motivate large numbers of people to go along with activities they otherwise could not endorse. The purpose and the utility of deep-state operations are found in their usefulness for getting people recommitted to beliefs while in an emotionally distraught state of mind. People in that condition will then tend to work from conclusions and go backwards. Then their beliefs and pretenses, as expressions of ones unconscious drivers, take over leaving empirical evidence as a distant ‘also ran’ in the building of the dominant narrative.

Because there's not only no empirical evidence of a fake event in this case, but also no persuasive circumstantial evidence. And dominant narrative accounts of the shooting haven't caused large numbers of people to go along with activities they would not otherwise endorse. Unless you count Wayne LaPierre's push for armed guards in every school, such activities haven't even been proposed, in fact. We're status quo.

Given that fakery has a very long pedigree, it is entirely reasonable to consider that fakery was involved in this incident also.

And to a lesser extent, to forces that have an investment in continued carnage generally, I guess.

Gratuitous ad on.

Honestly, given that absolutely nobody had suggested one single blessed time that it's not reasonable to consider the possibility of fakery, you're not exactly standing on very solid ground there. But never mind. It was not gratuitous. I was making a real substantive point about the transferable properties of the op about which I was hypothesizing, which I immediately went on to elaborate. It's right there. In plain pixels.

Because once you get people habituated to dismissing it on those or similar grounds, you can do it pretty much infinitely with whatever outrage/"outrage" you wish, just by re-jiggering its narrative to fit what you now know to be their requirements for not caring about it.

See? ^^Right there.

[compared2what?]

Oh I do not dismiss as being a tragedy, but I do question the nature of a tragedy where people are dancing on the graves of children to push polarizing agendas. And yes I care; I also care about the children killed in the daycare at the Oklahoma City bombing. Because that operation as well as the several dozen others over the last few decades (if not centuries) that RI type folk generally connect to elements within governments, whether rogue or not; when organized and scripted development of narratives that push an ill informed population into resonance with dominant social cues, whew, there is good reason to question the degree or style of fictional elements that the event seems to carry with it.

I believe you. And I'm happy to have a chance to say for the second time that I was not accusing you specifically. I said "this type of" rather than "this" for exactly that reason.

In this case the behavior of the Parker family seemed most unsettling. If you think it is appropriate for these folk to be positively giddy because they are in the presence of the Pope, er I mean president, then it’s fair for others to suspect that you carry secret, probably unconscious longing for a strong father figure.

I can't say that I'd see a clear route from A to B on that one even if I saw grounds for concluding that they were positively giddy. But let's skip that part of it. They were smiling for a photograph. That's not only not even a little bit incompatible with my experience of how people behave at wakes and memorials, it's completely consistent with them. I mean, it's certainly true that they also cry. But nobody takes pictures of it. So moot point.

Grief consumes, and if you will pardon my saying so, it doesn’t allow you to take time out for photo ops.

Not while it's consuming you, no. But nobody can sustain that kind of pain without a break of any kind, infinitely. And it's inherently either solitary or private, by its nature. But as I just said, nobody takes pictures of that. And it's immaterial anyway. Because we're talking about a memorial.

So. WRT what is and isn't appropriate, ordinary or customary within the parameters of the real terms under consideration:

I've definitely been at both wakes and memorials where photographs and even videos were being made, as well as at which people -- including the bereaved -- smiled, laughed, danced, sang, and even occasionally got drunk and hit on strangers when said behavior was characteristic for the person in question. In none of those instances did it ever occur to me that their grief was insincere or that the deceased were still living.

It's also definitely been my experience that when a person whose importance is such that his or her presence at such an event serves as a testament to the importance of either the life of the person being mourned or (as in this case) the importance of the loss, people find comfort in focusing on and/or commemorating that. Because they understand it as an act of respect for something that means a great deal to them.

And I'm sure that there isn't really anything outlandish, obscure or difficult to grasp about that, even if my experience isn't common to members of this board. Because it's common enough in the world at large that attendance at a gathering of that kind is routinely referred to by English speakers everywhere as paying one's respects. So unless you simply find the idea that anyone smiles or laughs under any circumstances within some set period of time after the loss of a loved one, it's completely unclear to me exactly what behavior you find so anomalous as to be incapable of an innocent explanation.

C2W? and cuda, if you cannot acknowledge or at least see that category confusion is involved in your extending ‘there seems to be fakery involved’ on to ‘the event didn’t happen’, then I might tend to tip over and consider that you may be speaking in bad faith.

I acknowledge that those assertions are not necessarily the same. However, I do not acknowledge that I've swapped one in for the other willfully in order dishonestly to cast aspersions on the enterprise of questioning the dominant narrative. Because I haven't. So were that being suggested, it would be so specious as to be not much more than an opportunistic excuse for making an insupportable attack in hopes that it would have the same effect that a reasoned defense might if same was available. And, you know. Why would I want to acknowledge that?

Hope that helps.

One thing though, the stuff that ‘the hidden players in power’ do not ‘cause’ to happen does not generally get near as much press as this event is getting. After looking at the list that C2W? posted up thread, it seems that there many incidents of mass violence, with 90% of school shooting linked to SSRI’s that barely make a dent in the news cycle.

There's no evidence anywhere that 90 percent of any list of school shootings are linked to SSRIs. One hundred per cent of the school shootings on lists of school shootings linked to SSRIs are linked to SSRIs. But that's what I believe one generally calls a biased sample.

...

I think the most accurate way to put it would be:

There's very little evidence that SSRIs do or don't cause violence. And none that's conclusive. So it's a real consideration that they do and/or can.

^^That's non-prejudicial, believe it or not. It's just one of those things. There are too many confounders to make a clear case either way.

[8bitagent]

Regarding Oklahoma City in this context, personally I have always accepted that whatever else may have happened or whatever help he may have had, Timothy McVeigh wanted to bomb the Murrah building. So an invocation of the O.C. event, to me, just lends credence to the idea that some people will kill innocent children, and in that way makes Adam Lanza that much more real and possible.

As did Khalid Sheikh Mohamed. As did Ramzi bin Alshidh. To the day they die they will be convinced they acted alone with fellow jihadists, and are quite boastful about 9/11. Its the ultimate plausible deniability.
The elite cant do that with Sirhan Sirhan. Brainwashing has become a different animal. For manchurian mass shooters, the subject can simply self terminate or stand still and await arrest in a fugue state.

For something like 9/11, you need truly dedicated jihadists built up on the fantasy fumes of 80's mujahadeen and 90's Serbian/Chechyn fighting.

I have no doubt til the day he was executed, Mcveigh was a dyed in the wool anti government militia extremist who was proud of OKC. BUT like KSM, he would never admit nor even be aware of the *framework* around it.
I mean, the fact you have a guy named Mujahid Menepta(AKA Melvin Lattimore) seen with Mcveigh at the Dreamland motel in 1995 and again with Mohamed Atta and Zacharious Moussoui at the same damn hotel in 2001
shows theres a very shadowy side to all of this. Most people still do not know there was an FBI informant and a Green Beret involved in the WTC 1993 plot.

[8bitagent]

Fake events:

Iraqi Kuwaiti hospital and Saudi border buildup circa 1990
the second Gulf of Tonkin "attack"

Not fake events: a classroom with 20 dead six year olds.

Even if Lanza was mind controlled or flanked by secret stealthy backup shooters or UFO orbs the event is not fake.

My friend called me up all upset, saying "man I cant believe the whole thing was a hoax", as before he got irate at the mere mention of conspiracy theories.
I had to explain that even if the killer was brainwashed into it, that there really was 20 dead kids. Just like there really was an E wing of the Pentagon full of
dead paper pushers and Flight 77 passengers. People don't get it.

[stoneonstone]

This thread has taken a different tack and tone that I would have thought. But I will jump in with the only physical evidence we've been shown regarding the hole Sandy Hook event.

I think the video was from a CBC report, as Lauren Rousseau has a Canadian angle to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtUqGukP2SY

Some stills:






First thoughts...WTF? Looks like a crossfire with the door open, as there is at least 1 entrance strike, 1 exit, and 1 spent or richochet (more apparent on the video). High velocity, and bigger calibre it appears to me than a .223. And, inspite of what the chief medical examiner said, these rounds were not designed to swell out or frament. Even as 'spent' bullets, if the official story of going through school glass is correct, there is plenty of power and integrity to them.

I guess that's why we're not seeing physical evidence.

[barracuda]

It's tough to make ballistics determinations from looking at those pictures, but just offhand, it seems like a .223 could easily make those holes. What particular type of .223 ammo was being fired is a question that has yet to be addressed, like all the rest of the results of this investigation. But as long as we're talking about cars, here a little item to get your blood flowing:

"That was such a heinous crime, I don't want to be connected to it in any way," Rodia said.

He says he was miles away in Greenwich, getting a warning for illegally parking in a fire zone.

"I was with my niece driving my mother's sage green Nissan," the 43-year-old Norwalk resident said.

[justdrew]

My friend called me up all upset, saying "man I cant believe the whole thing was a hoax", as before he got irate at the mere mention of conspiracy theories.

find out why he's saying that, could it be he expects you to think that? I don't know, but I'd like to know what persuaded him to think thank.

[compared2what?]

"That was such a heinous crime, I don't want to be connected to it in any way," Rodia said.

He says he was miles away in Greenwich, getting a warning for illegally parking in a fire zone.

"I was with my niece driving my mother's sage green Nissan," the 43-year-old Norwalk resident said.

There's that.

But I'm sure that somewhere on the internet there are people who either haven't seen that or aren't buying it.

But that's hasn't eased Rodia's fears, the result of numerous death threats he has received due to the Internet postings.

"A guy in one of the calls starts swearing at me, then says he'll kill me and burn down my house while I'm sleeping," he said.

"I'm a big boy and can take care of myself," he said, but added his 72-year-old mother, Diane, is afraid to have her young grandchildren come to visit because of the threats.

"We shouldn't have to be worrying about this," his mother said.

No. But I can see how it would be worrisome.

[Perelandra]

FFS

Man who helped Sandy Hook kids is harassed by conspiracy theorists

A man who found six children in his driveway in Newtown, Conn., after their teacher had been shot and killed in last month's school massacre has become the target of conspiracy theorists who believe the shootings were staged.

“I don’t know what to do,” Gene Rosen told Salon.com. “I’m getting hang-up calls, I’m getting some calls, I’m getting emails with, not direct threats, but accusations that I’m lying, that I’m a crisis actor, ‘How much am I being paid?'”

Rosen, a 69-year-old retired psychologist who lives near Sandy Hook Elementary School where the shootings took place, says his inbox is filled with emails like this one:

"How are all those little students doing? You know, the ones that showed up at your house after the ‘shooting’. What is the going rate for getting involved in a gov’t sponsored hoax anyway?"

“The quantity of the material is overwhelming,” Rosen said, adding that he's sought the advice of a retired state police officer and plans to alert the FBI.

[DrEvil]

In case you weren't disgusted enough by the NRA yet:

After blaming video games for school massacres, the NRA has made an iOS shooting game
Appropriate for ages four and up!

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013- ... oting-game