Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby MacCruiskeen » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:18 pm

No one here is cutting hooks out of anyone's stomach, not even metaphorically.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby The Consul » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:44 pm

I don't know. If I had a hook in my tummy, maybe it wouldn't be so bad if you cut it out for me.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby barracuda » Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:02 pm

lupercal wrote: a) The most vile accusations have been heaped ad libidem for weeks on two members of the Lanza family on the basis of zero, zip, nada evidence by the most righteous among us including barracuda, willow, and C2c. We're talking vile. If mother and son did any of the stuff they've been accused of here let the evidence be shown before this Lottery-fest continues.


This statement is completely at odds with what I have said, and with what we know. I have taken great pains during this discussion to separate and discriminate between "the shooter" and the suspect Adam Lanza, so you may kindly either provide citations or a retraction. Or, alternatively, satisfy all my expectations of you and simply ignore the facts.

Regardless of that, we do in fact have evidence that places Adam Lanza at the school, with several guns and his mother's car, in the midst of a horrific bloodbath. You can parse that anyway you wish, with whatever embellishments of fabulism you'd care to dispense, but that doesn't change that fact. It may be evidence you personally evaluate as unacceptable, but it is evidence nonetheless, and, as I told Mac, would almost certainly carry the day in a court of law.

b) "I don't need no stinkin' motive" is not a motive. Neither is "He's crazy, that's yer motive" or any variation. To date, the alleged perp had no motive whatsoever for committing these crimes.


What was Charles Whitman's motive? Oh yeah - he was "frustrated". How about James Huberty? Oh yeah - he lost his security guard job.

Tell me just why you think these "motivations" help us understand the actions of these killers.

lupercal on Dec. 21 wrote:Maybe it was Lanza, maybe not. Let's say it was. How do we know he wasn't shot in bed like his mother and then dumped at the site? At the moment I think it's more likely that he was never at the school, and his corpse was shipped directly to the morgue, if he's in a morgue. But he might not be there either.


I do recall that piece of Robert Ludlum fan fiction. And I'll admit, you can make up any story you like and pretend it has something to do with the case or the facts as we know them. I just happen to think that's a pretty callous game.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby barracuda » Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:08 pm

Oh, and Mac, you're welcome for the image research regarding your questions. Do you need anything else?

Just let me know. I'm at your disposal...
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby compared2what? » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:20 pm

lupercal wrote:^ good points, well made, so before we venture further down this righteous road let us keep in mind:

a) The most vile accusations have been heaped ad libidem for weeks on two members of the Lanza family on the basis of zero, zip, nada evidence by the most righteous among us including barracuda, willow, and C2c. We're talking vile. If mother and son did any of the stuff they've been accused of here let the evidence be shown before this Lottery-fest continues.


Who's C2c?

b) "I don't need no stinkin' motive" is not a motive. Neither is "He's crazy, that's yer motive" or any variation. To date, the alleged perp had no motive whatsoever for committing these crimes.


I read the entire thread from start to finish twice last night. And even though I was mostly looking for either the instances of intimidation or the people claiming that conspiracies never happen, authorities are always truthful and/or reality was fully understood that I'd evidently overlooked in real time, I'm reasonably confident that if I'd made any accusations about either Adam or Nancy Lanza that would even qualify as malicious, let alone vile, I would have noticed it.

As those qualities are ordinarily understood, I mean. I'm okay by my own standards, too. But since those only apply to me, they're probably not relevant here, unless you feel it might be useful to consider them as a point of reference or something like that.

Because, you know how it is. Do unto others just is as it does. And there's nothing to be done about it except it.***

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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby compared2what? » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:33 pm

compared2what? wrote:As those qualities are ordinarily understood, I mean. I'm okay by my own standards, too. But since those only apply to me, they're probably not relevant here, unless you feel it might be useful to consider them as a point of reference or something like that.


Well. I guess that when I ask myself:

"Is it really possible that after all this time someone's going to read that and think I'm trying to get away with using lower standards for myself than I do for others, rather than that I'm trying to avoid the appearance of judging them by standards I wouldn't be harsh enough to apply to anyone other than myself?"

I have to answer:

Yep.
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Better safe that sorry.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby lupercal » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:19 pm

^ okay c2w I might have been mistaken about you and if so I 'm sorry. I didn't reread the whole shebang but I just did a couple quick searches and couldn't find anything special in that department so good on ya and I'm glad you pointed it out.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby MacCruiskeen » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:42 pm

barracuda wrote:Oh, and Mac, you're welcome for the image research regarding your questions.


Thank you for telling me I'm welcome, barracuda. (You have a lovely way about you, did anyone ever tell you that? No? Well, please let me be the first.) And I apologise for having had the temerity to do other things in the meantime, both online and off, rather than waiting for your post, reading it, and thanking you for it immediately. Forgive me for so selfishly neglecting my duties. I forgive you in my turn for anticipating my thanks.

Also: Did You Know? There are such things as time zones. HTH. Don't mention it.

barracuda wrote:Do you need anything else?

Just let me know. I'm at your disposal...


Thanks, treasure. I do, actually. Could you provide some evidence for your assertion -- repeated yet again, for some bizarre reason -- that there were in fact eyewitnesses who identified Adam Lanza at the school?

barracuda wrote:we do in fact have evidence that places Adam Lanza at the school


Because you have such a lovely way about you, I'll make your task a little easier: If you can't find any such witnesses, despite insisting repeatedly on their existence, then just provide a smidgeon of evidence that any witness described the shooter as, say, dark-haired, very young, or extremely thin. That would be a start.

In fact, I'll return your favour by launchinga new thread in the Data Dump specially for such evidence. This will provide a public service, allowing everyone to keep up to date with information and disinformation on that particular issue. We'll see how full it is next week, next month, and indeed for the duration of the RI Data Dump.

You're welcome. And thank you for neither smoking nor continuing to spread fog.

barracuda, on page 38 of this thread, wrote: You know that thing when a bad notion seems to rise again and again from the dead yet never really grows any new flesh on the bone, never really adds any more flavor to the soup, and you feel like you have to strike it down all over again before it picks up momentum, because if you don't that's all that might be left? Well, maybe you don't, but I do, goddamit.


I know it too and I agree with you that it's horrible! :hug1: How wonderful to be in agreement at last.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby MacCruiskeen » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:42 pm

barracuda wrote:Wikipedia says it's a yearbook photo. (Color me dubious, though.)


Me too. So where the hell did it originate? It just appeared from the blue three days after the other "harmless" images and served to stamp him as THE FACE OF UNFATHOMABLE EVIL worldwide.

Here it's credited to "Photographer: NBC/Rexusa.com":

http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/national/a ... l-shooting

Here, it says "(c) AP":

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/12/ ... 38x493.jpg

Believe me, I'm not assigning anyone any homework, but it would in fact be well worth finding out where that photo originated, and I personally have no clue how to find out. (By calling the cops in Connecticut, presumably. Or NBC. Or AP. But any reasonably well-connected US citizen would have a better chance of doing so successfully than I would.)

Also, while I'm at it, I really have to state the obvious: His eye colour clearly doesn't match that of the blue-eyed child in either his elementary-school portrait or in that spontaneous snap.

Image
Image

Blue eyes don't turn brown in a person long past babyhood. Maybe this is one reason why the hacks have so often preferred to print that mysteriously blurred (why blurred?) EVIL photo in tasteful black-and-white:

Image

Is this the same person at all?

Really: What the fuck is going on with this case?
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby Project Willow » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:53 pm

MacCruiskeen wrote:Really: What the fuck is going on with this case?


We don't know, so aliens.

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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby MacCruiskeen » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:59 pm

Thanks, Willow. Fnar, fnar. I'll return the compliment with a hilarious wisecrack in your next Ritual Abuse thread. :dalek:

- Back on-topic, if humanly possible.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby barracuda » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:08 pm

Mac: I don't know what you mean about the time zone thing, but if it's evidence you're looking for, I'd begin by carefully examining the press conferences given by Lt. Paul Vance. He is the one who originally reiterated officially that the shooter was dead and was in the school building. He's the source for that information. He is also the official source for the identification of the shooter as Adam Lanza, following the interrogation of the brother Ryan in Hoboken. And like it or not, he is relaying information we can use as evidence.

You can say you don't believe him. You can say you don't believe the brother. You can say you don't believe his father ever picked up Adam's body at the morgue. But that doesn't change the fact that we have police information us as to what they found at the scene. And in a trial, that is exactly what you would get as evidence - police testimony.

I don't really go to the Data Dump much anymore. I never really cared for the place, personally. But I will throw what I find your way when I come across it, if it isn't too much trouble. However, the results of the police investigation aren't expected until mid-March, so steel yourself for a goodly session of not-believeing-what-they-say. Because I sincerely doubt you will get a chance to personally interview the witnesses. Maybe they will eventually wind up on interviews, but not yet.

Regarding the insect-picture of Adam Lanza: it is my belief that the color version of the shot has been colorized by NBC. If you perform a Google image search by date for the photo, all of the earliest returns are in black and white, even those on television program screen captures. My feeling is that NBC colorized the image to sell it, and the result is the picture I linked to at Associated Press. Be warned though: the Google date search function isn't perfect, but it is close enough to satisfy me that the original image was balck and white.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby MacCruiskeen » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:28 pm

barracuda wrote:My feeling is that NBC colorized the image to sell it,


You may be right, barracuda. Or you may not. Who can tell? (And why should it be such a mystery in the first place?) And they certainly didn't have to colorize the image to sell it! They must have made millions off the monochrome version alone. (Although... Is it even legal to buy and copyright such an image?)

Also: Who, in the 21st century, takes b&w photos at all? A handful of diehard art photographers, that's who. And that is certainly no art photograph. It looks like a mugshot, or a regrettable ID, or a snapshot taken hastily and incompetently in of those old-fashioned booths. (Do they even exist in the States these days?)

This is really starting to piss me off now. Where the hell did that blurred monstrosity come from, before it so handily hit the front pages of the world's press? Exactly who put it out there, and exactly where did that anonymous fucker find it, before someone* made millions off it?

*According to that Daily Mail link above, AP holds the copyright.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby Project Willow » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:29 pm

MacCruiskeen wrote:I'll return the compliment with a hilarious wisecrack in your next Ritual Abuse thread.


That would be better than the utter stone cold silence with which the subject is generally met. Heaven forbid if somebody actually did something to fucking help people who aren't dead yet.
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Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby MacCruiskeen » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:31 pm

In any case: B&W or colour, that is clearly not a photo of a blue-eyed youth.

I submit that it is not the same person at all.
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