Guns (Yawn)

by **JackRiddler** » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:18 am

Jerky » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:12 pm wrote:You know, if you think you've been hearing "crickets" about drug related deaths over the last few years, I think you might want to get your hearing checked.

J.

Yeah, that too. But there's a kind of selective hearing generally on this issue. (My god, I just heard someone once again insult the dignity and trample on the human rights and good reputation of the AR-15 by calling it an assault weapon! Where does this perfidy end? In the Gulag, I tell you!)

by **Jerky** » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:37 am

You know, there's a new face on the right-wing propaganda scene (and I do mean face) who is Tweeting PRECISELY THIS as his serious hot take on the issue. His name is Charlie Kirk (German for church), and don't worry if you haven't heard about him yet. The nature of the right-wing propagandasphere being what it is, it necessitates some serious personnel churn and high rates of turnover. But still, check it out:

https://twitter.com/charliekirk11/statu ... 1149893633

J.

by **Karmamatterz** » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:14 am

Weapons Remington M11 shotgun, Japanese sword, axe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagamihara_stabbings

Weapons Knives

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yema_stabbings

Weapons Knife

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Hebe ... or_rampage

Weapons Bucket loader
Crowbar
Brick

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongliang ... ing_attack

Weapons Knife
bomb

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashupati ... e_shooting

Weapons Lee-Enfield bolt-action rifle

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shi_Yuejun

Weapons Knife

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chenggu_axe_massacre

Weapons Axe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonhyeon-dong_massacre

Weapons Sashimi knife
Two fruit-knives
Tear gas gun

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Unek

Weapons Axe
Knife
Lee-Enfield Rifle

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitale_massacre

Weapons Spear

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulago_Hospital_massacre

Weapons Knife

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campo_El%C3%ADas_Delgado

Weapons Hunting knife
Llama Revolver (.38-caliber)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby%27s_shooting

Weapons Glock 17
Ruger P89

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genildo_F ... ran%C3%A7a

[imgur-album]Weapons Taurus PT57 semi-automatic pistol (7.65mm)
.38-caliber Taurus Model 689 revolver with silencer
[/imgur-album]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binghamton_shootings

Weapons 9mm Beretta 92FS Vertec Inox
Beretta Px4 Storm .45 caliber[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Unruh

Weapons Luger P08 pistol

Weapons Hammer, blunt objects

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89ric_Borel

Weapons .22-caliber hunting rifle
Hammer
Baseball bat

Weapons Blackjack
Dagger
Two Mauser C96

Weapons CZ-88 9mm pistol

Weapons George Fisher 12 gaugedouble-barreled shotgun[2]
CZ 452-2E ZKM .22-calibrebolt-action rifle[3]

Weapons Hammer
Colt 1911A1 (.45)
Glock 17 (9mm)
H&R Revolver (.22)
Raven MP-25 (.25)

Weapons Two M1911 (.45 ACP) semi-automatic pistols
Ruger (.22-caliber) semi-automatic pistol[1]

Weapons FN Five-seven pistol

Weapons Remington 870 Express Tactical 12-gauge shotgun[2][3][4]
Stolen Beretta 92FS 9mmsemi-automatic pistol[2][5]

Weapons Explosives (dynamite, firebombs, pyrotol)

Weapons Glock 19 pistol
Walther P22 pistol

Weapons Flamethrower, lance, homemade mace

Weapons Hi-Point 995 Carbine, Savage 67H pump-action shotgun, explosives and two knives

Weapons Intratec TEC-DC9, Stevens 311D double barreled sawed-off shotgun, explosives and two knives
Propane bombs which didn't detonate

Weapons Renault Midlum cargo truck
.32-caliber handgun

Weapons Hammer
Crowbar
Rope
H&R Model 929 .22-caliberrevolver
Ruger Single Six .22-caliberrevolver

Weapons Car

Weapon Pickup truck

Weapons Two milk cartons filled with a flammable liquid

Weapon Ammonium nitrate and nitromethane truck bomb

Attack type Arson, mass murder

--------------

"Masculinity" (all the extra bullshit attached to the happenstance of a sex) hasn't done me very much good so fuck yeah. In real life I've seen it isn't taken very positively except by all the men who fetishize their manliness, who tend to be asses and bullies, so I'm assuming you're one of the same. I have little need of it. Your problem, man.

As to your main point, what you're missing or being obtuse about is, when extremely aggressive fucked up males (which is exactly what they are) take weapons designed to maximize the killing of others, and murder a lot of unexpecting civilians by surprise and at random, that creates bottomless trauma and a movement among the survivors. They don't really give a shit about your sophistry concerning other causes of death, or whatever other NRA-type talking points you're going to pull out. (Sorry, it's nothing like you drinking yourself to death or overdosing because you're having a sad, because you are hallucinating that some fictional left is preventing big men like you from being manly.) The survivors don't care about your bullshit. They don't see their trauma through your highly impoverished lens of this just being left/right politics. They will never forget what was done to them. They are going to fight the fight that was foisted on them. This time circumstances seem to have converged a certain way such that this fight not going away any time soon.

You poor dear Jack, were you triggered by the mention of masculinity? I'm terribly heartbroken that you feel that way about me. You know, I really need your validation given you're the superior intellect and are an individual to praise for your massive insight into the human experience. I wish I was as good as you when it comes to your Jack-Assumptions.

In-between all the silly things you prattled on about there were actually a few good points. Yes, extremely aggressive males going on rampages and randomly murdering people is just incredibly f*cked up. It's horribly tragic and causes trauma for lifetimes. Do you really believe that you are the only one to convey their pain and suffering? That others can't understand that? It's just Jack, right? Do you even f*cking have children of your own? Do you know what it's like to want to protect children from harm? Have you ever been around trauma? Been at murder scenes or sat with survivors? Have you ever bothered to try and learn what is wrong with people that they do this crazy shit?

Duh, no shit Jack, drinking oneself to death is not the same as going on a mass killing rampage. See, I knew you were a really bright guy! Is it okay to refer to you as a guy? The fact is, drug and alcohol deaths have a long tail that is one of misery and trauma for others. The list of people impacted by drug and alcohol crimes, accidents etc...is much larger than by mass shooting deaths. The survivors are everywhere, maybe even some of your neighbors are survivors. Yes, I have a different take on this as I happen to know people whose lives were impacted negatively. The survivors of people who chose to use heroin, and died. Virtue signaling about mass shootings happens all the time, you're not unique in what you're doing. I suppose you could say the same thing about my position on drug and alcohol deaths. I happen to know people involved which is why I speak more openly about it. It's not an abstract thing based on a political narrative.

To Jerky's point, I've obviously missed out on the earlier discussions. Since I've been a member of RI there have been a number of times where I come and go for long periods. For about the past year I've not seen much here in the way of discussions on opiate deaths. Doesn't mean you all have not posted. My bad for missing the discussions. Search on here just sucks bad.

Obviously I'm looking at this with a different lens, and I have every right to. Not being a fan of echo chambers, I would rather explore issues more holistically than focus in on select narratives that the far Left chooses too. It does me no good to live life with blinders to the full scope of truth to what is going on. Just because one seeks to examine issues in a different manner doesn't make them immune to human suffering and have a compassionate understanding of how people feel when experiencing trauma. If you've been up close and seen teenage kids decapitated in the carnage of alcohol related car wrecks you don't easily forget.

To Dr Evil's points:

Lowering gun deaths is "simple":
A) ban everything except hunting rifles and hand guns.
B) have strict regulations on owning guns with background checks and a gun owner registry. No open carry, no concealed carry, no carry period. The only legitimate uses for guns should be hunting and sports.
C) institute a buyback program.
D) have periodic amnesties where people can hand in illegal guns no questions asked.

Sure, ban all firearms but hunting rifles and hand guns. Most deaths each year in the U.S. are with hand guns though, not semi-auto rifles.
See the list above for the many examples of other weapons used in murderous rampages.
There are strict regulations already in place with background checks. You can outlaw open/concealed carry, but it won't stop people. Do you think criminals will really give a shit about a ban on concealed carry? LOL.
If you care to look it up, the Columbine killers were underage and had someone purchase guns for them. They also used pipe bombs and built propane bombs which fortunately did not detonate.
Buyback program.....meh....maybe a tiny percentage of people would participate. It's not a bad idea though if someone really wants to ditch grandpa's gun collection or whatever.
Amnesty? After more laws and restrictions would be put in place based on your ban, few people would want to part with their guns. Those that would are more likely to sell it to a dealer or on the blackmarket for cash. Would you be expecting the State to begin house to house searches for guns? What would be the impetus for someone to turn in their gun? If they don't believe owning a gun is a problem they won't be likely to turn in their weapons. Unless very careful house to house searches are conducted it won't happen. If such a thing as house to house searches was enacted you would see a revolution. Hey Dr. Evil, you don't even live in the U.S., right? Don't you have to register as a foreign agent?

SLAD probably has some links on that.

The U.S. is unique in these problems with guns because of our culture. We have the Bill of Rights. As it's been interpreted for many years, gun ownership has been allowed and is a big deal for many people. It's not like it's something new that just arrived on the market. It is something deeply rooted into the fabric of our society, for better or worse. Guns simply aren't going to poof out of existence. Rational discussions need to be had about how to protect sensitive or vulnerable locations. Some schools already have pretty tight security, others you can walk right into the front lobby without questions. Most high schools I've been in over the past 10 years or so have tight(er) security during the day, but then the doors are wide open in the evening for meetings, music or sporting events. It's also easy to slip into a school simply by walking behind another person. All you have to do is look like you belong there.

My dad was a lifelong teacher and principal. This was years ago, but then the weapon of choice was a knife. Based on what I hear from parents now knives are still popular for kids to bring to school or leave in their cars while in class. Hammers, clubs, knives, axes, baseball bats, pipebombs are all weapons for freaks to use to murder. Read again the long list, which is not complete, of the weapons used. Many hand guns, vehicles, arson and bombs. I made my point the other day with Burnt Hill about how it is very easy to swap out a magazine in a semi-auto handgun. Obviously real killers know from experience how easy it is to do so, otherwise they wouldn't be able to kill so many people so quickly. If you've not shot a gun or used any of these weapons then commenting on the ease of use or how they function limits your understanding.

by **DrEvil** » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:31 pm

PufPuf93 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:15 am wrote:E) Add ammo control to your list Dr. Evil.

Good point. Restrictions on bulk purchases of bullets and gun powder would be nice, and restrict it to ammo types only suitable for target practice and hunting.

by **seemslikeadream** » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:33 pm

make gun owners buy insurance

by **mentalgongfu2** » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:38 pm

seemslikeadream » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:33 am wrote:make gun owners buy insurance

A position of growing popularity that would do absolutely nothing to prevent gun deaths.

It would, however, enrich some insurance companies and perhaps result in the surviving families of victims receiving some minuscule payment that will never come close to making up for their loss.

There are better ways.

by **seemslikeadream** » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:41 pm

can't drive a car...motorcycle......own a home....run a business...be a doctor.... operate a school......police departments.... cities but yes let's now worry about insurance companies when it comes to guns

by **mentalgongfu2** » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:52 pm

Please don't misrepresent me, SLAD.

I didn't express any worry or concern for insurance companies.

I expressed concern about the idea being ineffective and that it would ENRICH insurance companies, and do so unnecessarily because it will be ineffective.

by **seemslikeadream** » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:55 pm

you said

enrich some insurance companies

I am not misrepresenting you

why worry about that with guns and not everything else that has to have insurance

yes it will help along with many other things

when a person has to shell out money for EVERY SINGLE gun they own it will help and help the people they destroy

by **Rory** » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:01 pm

It's completely a non starter. Where would you even begin - new purchase only? Would be a bit stable door horse bolted considering there's 100s of millions already in circulation.

by **seemslikeadream** » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:02 pm

hundreds of thousands of cars... trucks....motorcycles... businesses .....doctors ....where to begin

my thoughts and prayers are with you

if you own a fucking gun you should be held responsible for what harm it does... criminally and financially

by **Rory** » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:11 pm

Ok. So, aspirational, unrealistic, and completely unworkable, except as a insurance company profit scam

by **seemslikeadream** » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:12 pm

works for cars busses motorcycles businesses doctors schools cities towns police departments

make gun owners accountable for their weapons just like every other vehicle that can do harm

by **Rory** » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:15 pm

Yeah, so can't happen, and won't happen.

by **DrEvil** » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:15 pm

Karmamatterz » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:14 pm wrote:
**Removed completely irrelevant list of people killing people with other stuff, plus replies to other posters.**

To Dr Evil's points:
Lowering gun deaths is "simple":
A) ban everything except hunting rifles and hand guns.
B) have strict regulations on owning guns with background checks and a gun owner registry. No open carry, no concealed carry, no carry period. The only legitimate uses for guns should be hunting and sports.
C) institute a buyback program.
D) have periodic amnesties where people can hand in illegal guns no questions asked.

Sure, ban all firearms but hunting rifles and hand guns. Most deaths each year in the U.S. are with hand guns though, not semi-auto rifles.
See the list above for the many examples of other weapons used in murderous rampages.
There are strict regulations already in place with background checks. You can outlaw open/concealed carry, but it won't stop people. Do you think criminals will really give a shit about a ban on concealed carry? LOL.

The point is to reduce the number of guns in circulation, which will make it harder for people who want one to get their hands on one.

Your list above is completely pointless. Of course you can kill people with any number of things. So what? It has no relevance to the gun debate. You're saying that people can be killed with knives so we shouldn't do anything about guns, which is ridiculous.

The point of stricter regulations isn't to stop criminals, but to make it harder for them to get their hands on guns.

If you care to look it up, the Columbine killers were underage and had someone purchase guns for them. They also used pipe bombs and built propane bombs which fortunately did not detonate.
Buyback program.....meh....maybe a tiny percentage of people would participate. It's not a bad idea though if someone really wants to ditch grandpa's gun collection or whatever.

You won't know until you try. If the weapons are suddenly illegal to own some people might go for the cash. At the very least it isn't going to increase the number of guns in circulation, and it's only fair to compensate people if you outlaw something that used to be legal.

Amnesty? After more laws and restrictions would be put in place based on your ban, few people would want to part with their guns. Those that would are more likely to sell it to a dealer or on the blackmarket for cash. Would you be expecting the State to begin house to house searches for guns? What would be the impetus for someone to turn in their gun? If they don't believe owning a gun is a problem they won't be likely to turn in their weapons. Unless very careful house to house searches are conducted it won't happen. If such a thing as house to house searches was enacted you would see a revolution. Hey Dr. Evil, you don't even live in the U.S., right? Don't you have to register as a foreign agent? SLAD probably has some links on that.

No, I don't live in the US and I wouldn't want to. The general consensus outside the US is that you're all fucking insane when it comes to guns. You have more guns per person than any other place on Earth and it's obvious to everyone else that your lax gun laws are at the root of the problem.

The point of an amnesty is to give people who have illegal weapons a way to get rid of them without getting into any trouble. It's an incentive for people who change their mind or miss out on the buyback program (which would most likely have a time limit). If you pair it with harsh fines and/or criminal records if caught then people might actually decide to give them up.

The U.S. is unique in these problems with guns because of our culture. We have the Bill of Rights. As it's been interpreted for many years, gun ownership has been allowed and is a big deal for many people. It's not like it's something new that just arrived on the market. It is something deeply rooted into the fabric of our society, for better or worse. Guns simply aren't going to poof out of existence. Rational discussions need to be had about how to protect sensitive or vulnerable locations. Some schools already have pretty tight security, others you can walk right into the front lobby without questions. Most high schools I've been in over the past 10 years or so have tight(er) security during the day, but then the doors are wide open in the evening for meetings, music or sporting events. It's also easy to slip into a school simply by walking behind another person. All you have to do is look like you belong there.

My dad was a lifelong teacher and principal. This was years ago, but then the weapon of choice was a knife. Based on what I hear from parents now knives are still popular for kids to bring to school or leave in their cars while in class. Hammers, clubs, knives, axes, baseball bats, pipebombs are all weapons for freaks to use to murder. Read again the long list, which is not complete, of the weapons used. Many hand guns, vehicles, arson and bombs. I made my point the other day with Burnt Hill about how it is very easy to swap out a magazine in a semi-auto handgun. Obviously real killers know from experience how easy it is to do so, otherwise they wouldn't be able to kill so many people so quickly. If you've not shot a gun or used any of these weapons then commenting on the ease of use or how they function limits your understanding.

I agree that your culture is the biggest hurdle to doing anything about it. Too many people think of guns as a nice/awesome/cool thing to have. The thing is that if you actually reduce the number of guns to a sensible number then it becomes unnecessary to own a gun in the first place. If you don't have to worry about other people using guns you don't feel like you need one yourself, and the list I made is one way to help get those numbers down.

I don't think it would fix the problem, but it would be a start. The biggest challenge is to change the mentality about guns.

The fact that you talk about protecting schools from random gunmen as a fact of life is utterly insane to anyone not living in the US or a war zone. You're so used to it that you don't see how fucked up it really is.

Guns (Yawn)

Re: Guns (Yawn)

Re: Guns (Yawn)

Re: Guns (Yawn)

Re: Guns (Yawn)

Re: Guns (Yawn)

Re: Guns (Yawn)

Re: Guns (Yawn)

Re: Guns (Yawn)

Re: Guns (Yawn)

Re: Guns (Yawn)

Re: Guns (Yawn)

Re: Guns (Yawn)

Re: Guns (Yawn)

Re: Guns (Yawn)

Re: Guns (Yawn)

Who is online