West Memphis Three Revisited

[compared2what?]

dead people can't testify that they were raped.

That too is a significant difference wrt the absence of clear evidence.

By which I mean: When there's no testimony, no characteristic bruising of the buttocks or thighs, no semen, and no tears or other marks that plainly bespeak rape and the people in question are dead, on what grounds does a living person presume to testify in their stead that it occurred?

He's clearly not describing an injury that was serious enough literally to leave scars and means "scratches" when he uses that word.

A physical assault that injures someone is a crime that is dealt with by the police and generates medical records.

Something that can be shut down by the chemistry teacher is a fight.

This is nutty, this minimizing term "fight", and he said scar. There's no separate classification for "boys will be boys". That was an assault whether it was adjudicated or not. I went through a hearing once where a woman claimed she'd been bruised by spit.

It is not a euphemism to say that someone who was suspended for fighting in an incident that the other party describes as fighting was in a fight. It's also not a minimization. It's an accurate reflection of the record of the event. And it's "That was an assault" that departs from it.

Because there's not a single aspect of his psychiatric diagnoses or item in his profile that has a high correlation with murderous acts of violence. Or that's predictive of them.

Disagree. Lack of remorse for one. Gilligan isn't exactly mainstream, his findings aren't widely circulated, or could be reflected in statistical studies. And the question for me remains capacity.

Capacity is a relevant question, though not a substitute for proof that it was acted upon.

However, people also don't display remorse for things they haven't done. So a lack of remorse is not actually evidence of a capacity for violence, absent the presumption of it for some other reason.

I don't hold you repsonsible for it. But I find this....

FACT - DAMIEN ECHOLS WAS MENTALLY ILL AT THE TIME OF THE MURDERS:

. .

...from the westmemphisthreefacts site offensive. Very.

No one need tell me about rates of violence among the mentally ill, which are commonly perceived to be but are no higher on average than the general population. They should have just stated that Echols himself wrote "homicidal" on his application for Social Security benefits.

That would have been more tasteful. But it wouldn't have been any less prejudicial. Putting the words "homicidal" and "suicidal" on an application for SSDI benefits for mental illness means that you have homicidal and suicidal ideation, which are clinically and officially recognized as indicators of a disorder serious enough to amount to a disability. that merits compensation. But which are not clinically or officially recognized as indicators of serious suicidal/homicidal intent. Because when there are no gestures, acts, plans or behaviors that suggest otherwise, they're not.

If people in that circumstance with those feelings couldn't safely state them while requesting help, they wouldn't get any.

So same difference.

[compared2what?]

Also, once again:

Why is scattered secondary evidence of a capacity for violent criminal acts incriminating for Damien Echols when less scattered and much stronger evidence of the same thing isn't incriminating for someone with close, immediate and intimate ties to the victims and crime scene?

There was no clear evidence of occult ritual present. And while it's true that there might not have been, the list of things for which there mightn't be clear evidence and isn't -does have to have at least the one exception that justifies the rule.

[Project Willow]

By which I mean: When there's no testimony, no characteristic bruising of the buttocks or thighs, no semen, and no tears or other marks that plainly bespeak rape and the people in question are dead, on what grounds does a living person presume to testify in their stead that it occurred?

There was in this case characteristic bruising of the thighs and semen, as the experts stated in their testimony. And there was inflammation in the rectum. The contention here is your additional requirement that there be tears and lacerations. Even if we hold to that requirement, which if I haven't made it clear enough already, represents a serious challenge for living child rape victims, the lack of tears and lacerations does not render Misskelley's statement about two of the boys being "screwed" invalid as he would have no way of knowing the success or extent of penetration.

Because there's not a single aspect of his psychiatric diagnoses or item in his profile that has a high correlation with murderous acts of violence. Or that's predictive of them.
However, people also don't display remorse for things they haven't done. So a lack of remorse is not actually evidence of a capacity for violence, absent the presumption of it for some other reason.

Psychiatric facility staff state that Echols did not show remorse for things it is documented he had done. And Echols' profile most certainly does contain items that are highly correlated with those in the profiles of known murderers. The correlation of family violence, instability, and addiction is so high as to be considered a causal factor. See below. Here's the obligatory caveat to that statement, of course the majority of people with such backgrounds do not become murderers, myself included. It's the way in which the individual responds to these experiences that forms a pattern of internal logic that leads to violent acts. It is this pattern that I recognize in Echols' psychiatric records and I will flesh it out in a future post.

That would have been more tasteful. But it wouldn't have been any less prejudicial. Putting the words "homicidal" and "suicidal" on an application for SSDI benefits for mental illness means that you have homicidal and suicidal ideation, which are clinically and officially recognized as indicators of a disorder serious enough to amount to a disability. that merits compensation. But which are not clinically or officially recognized as indicators of serious suicidal/homicidal intent. Because when there are no gestures, acts, plans or behaviors that suggest otherwise, they're not.

If people in that circumstance with those feelings couldn't safely state them while requesting help, they wouldn't get any.

So same difference.

I want to address this requirement of yours that prior acts meet a certain threshold of violence in order to predict commission of murder, because it just doesn't play out that way in the real world.

2002 Washington State, 16 year old murders child. The child was choked with a stick, stripped, tied up, injected with insulin, and cut with a razor blade. Cause of death was insulin overdose. The assailant was on probation for theft, and had been convicted for reckless burning, burglary and theft, but no prior acts of physical violence towards others.

Alexander said when he gets "really ticked off" he often goes into a trance. He said that he wanted to get even with Michael for bothering him, but realized it was wrong to act in the manner in which he did.

Alexander has previously been convicted for reckless burning, burglary and theft.

Western psychology professor Arleen Lewis said it would have been difficult to predict this would happen.

[Edit: I forgot this bit.]

But a counselor who once treated Alexander said he was a nice boy who had become the caretaker to his mother and younger brother. In a Sept. 8, 1999, letter to the teen's public defender at the time, the counselor wrote, "It should be noted that Ryan is quite a nice kid, without much predatory instinct."

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/G ... z2MDsnkRjH

The defense makes similar claims as with the WM3 initially, but the evidence in this case tying the teen to the murder was solid and he was convicted.

Alexander's lawyer, public defender Eric Weight, said Thursday that he would seek to get a confession the boy gave to police in a squad car shortly after his arrest declared inadmissible as evidence, because of the teenager's mental problems.

He also said that police acted improperly when they treated the boy as they would any adult suspect.

"Juveniles are more inclined, psychologically, to admit things they might not necessarily have done," Weight said after the hearing Thursday.
...
"There are issues in this case relative to mental health," he said. "In fact, once we retain expert opinion on this, I think that we'll find that though this [16] is his chronological age, his maturity age and other factors are significantly lower."

The WM3 case occurred during a period in which murders committed by juveniles were significantly on the rise.

http://articles.latimes.com/1992-08-16/news/mn-6880_1_juvenile-arrests
...
The number of juveniles arrested for homicide between 1981 and 1990 increased 60% nationwide, far outpacing the 5.2% increase among adults, according to the most recent FBI crime statistics.

Although juveniles are still far less likely to kill than adults, an unprecedented 2,003 youths were arrested for murder and non-negligent manslaughter in 1990, according to federal statistics. In 1981, one in every 10 people arrested in the United States for murder was under 18; by 1990, it was one in six.
...

But the numbers go far beyond the problem of urban gang violence, many law enforcement officials and psychologists say. The escalating juvenile murder rate reflects a widespread--and perhaps more disturbing--penetration of violence into the lives of young people from all walks of life, they say.
...

Home Influences Cited

Several recent studies of adolescent killers point to family influences among the possible causes of the violence. By and large, the studies dismiss the widespread popular belief that juvenile murderers are usually psychotic or kill because of bizarre mental health problems, concluding instead that many young murderers have been victims themselves.

A psychiatric study published in 1988 of 14 juveniles condemned to death found that 12 had been "brutally, physically abused" in their homes and five had been sodomized by older male relatives. The physical abuse ranged from being hit on the head with a hammer to being placed on a hot stove top.

The study, based on psychiatric tests and interviews with the youths, also showed that all but one of the condemned killers had grown up in households rife with violence. One father beat his pregnant wife, and a stepfather "preferred hunting men to animals." The parents also had histories of alcoholism, drug abuse and psychiatric treatment.

"Not only did older family members fail to protect these adolescents, but they also often used the subjects to vent their rages and to satisfy their sexual appetites," concluded the study, which was prepared for the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry.

A separate study of 72 youths charged with murder in Michigan found that only five were psychotic when they committed the crime, but more than one-third had alcohol and drug abuse problems, and most of them had parents who were divorced.
...

When he started looking into the case, Robins said he never suspected the girls next door, who had befriended the woman and sometimes drove with her to school. Robins focused on the sisters only when a teen-age informant reported that they had boasted about the murder at school, an increasingly common form of bravado among many teen-age killers, authorities say.

[Project Willow]

Also, once again:

Why is scattered secondary evidence of a capacity for violent criminal acts incriminating for Damien Echols when less scattered and much stronger evidence of the same thing isn't incriminating for someone with close, immediate and intimate ties to the victims and crime scene?

I wouldn't say it was directly incriminating. The arguments about Echols' capacity for violent acts are a refutation of the supporter generated perception of Echols as a troubled youth who wasn't likely to commit this sort of crime.

As to the other potential suspect, or all the suspects I should say, that the defense has sought to incriminate, the evidence argues against a single assailant. Three different kinds of knots were used to tie up the victims, and it would be much more difficult for one man to subdue 3 resisting boys. While that isn't conclusive on it its own, it's there nonetheless.

There was no clear evidence of occult ritual present. And while it's true that there might not have been, the list of things for which there mightn't be clear evidence and isn't -does have to have at least the one exception that justifies the rule.

I haven't argued that the crime was committed as part of an occult ritual. The potential role that Damien's stated beliefs play in the crime is as a component of the pattern of internal logic I mentioned earlier, and minimally in carrying out the acts with other teens.

[divideandconquer]

On the off-chance that there are people still interested in this old case, I'm curious, are there any Hollywood celebrities brave enough to speak out against the never-ending stream of propaganda supporting the West Memphis 3? (Just saw a video of Damien Echols on The View and the fawning over this dude kinda made me sick.)

Anyway, I'm certainly no expert on this case, but I just find it odd that out of all of the supposedly innocent people railroaded through our "justice" system, they choose this--from what I've read--psychopathic ringleader and/or arrogant, self-absorbed, narcissist (I mean, why would mental health professionals conspire to prepare and present a 509-page dossier that made Echols’s out to be a psychopath?) as their poster child/folk hero.

In my humble opinion, I think the WM3 did it, however I don't think they are guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. But I'm more interested in Hollywood's role especially considering the timing of this tragedy: the systematic effort to to deny all ritual abuse crimes by claiming "Satanic panic", a blanket to deny all ritual abuse crimes even regarding cases with conclusive evidence and convictions, not to mention the knowledge that law enforcement agencies conceal evidence of occult crime in order to prevent hysteria and/or are not prepared to deal with occult crime.

Occult Crime: A Law Enforcement Primer is a very interesting read. According to one of the people who worked on this report, it was supposed to be free to the anyone who asks. So he provides this link: http://holysmoke.org/report/index.htm

His comment from Amazon where it's listed for $96.

I am one of the writers and researchers who worked on this project and the report; the report was made available by the state of California for free to anyone and everyone who asked for a copy, and the entire report is still available for free on my web site at holysmoke.org

Please do not buy a copy of this report:it was meant to be free.

[divideandconquer]

Sorry if I'm bringing up something already discussed or dismissed as insignificant, but did anyone read this interview with Alvis Clem Bly (in prison at the time of the murders but who claims he was part of their cult)? http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/ably.html
I found it strange for a number of reasons. Although Bly doesn't come across as very intelligent, Misskelley doesn't sound like a mentally challenged teenager. And Bly talks about a man who let them (the cult) use his shed on Rich Road twice, but who didn't like associating with the "young ones" as if there were others, perhaps older, involved who liked to remain anonymous. Then, Bly asked if the boys were beaten and castrated, which they supposedly were (I think Byers was castrated) as they did to the dogs as a result of following some sort of devil book.

Allen: This is Detective Sgt. Mike Allen of the West Memphis Police Department. Today's date is June the 29th of 1993 presently in the detective division of the police dept. The time is now 11:36 am. Presently with uh, would you state your name?
Bly: Alvis Bly
Allen: Your full name is Alvis
Bly: Alvis Clem Bly
Allen: Clem Bly, are you a senior?
Bly: No, yes I guess you call it a senior.
Allen: Okay, I mean you are
Bly: I'm the first
Allen: Okay, you have a son named Alvis Clem Bly also?
Bly: Junior
Allen: Okay, how old, how old are you Mr. Bly?
Bly: 36
Allen: Okay, and your date of birth?
Bly: XX-XX-57
Allen: Okay, and right now you are currently in the Crittenden jail, is that correct?
Bly: Yes sir, county jail
Allen: Okay, how long have you been there?
Bly: Almost 4 months
Allen: Almost 4 months now, okay, um, J.C. Shelton are you familiar with him?
Bly: yes sir
Allen: Okay, he um came in here earlier and left you down stairs, down there and said that you had some information about the a colt (sic) of some kind?
Bly: Cult
Allen: Okay, um, you lived in West Memphis prior to you being arrested or incarcerate in the county jail is that correct sir?
Bly: yes sir, over on east Barton
Allen: Okay, you lived at 1900 correct?
Bly: yes sir
Allen: Okay, um, before you lived at 1900 East Barton did you live any where else in Crittenden county?
Bly: Lakeshore
Allen: Lakeshore
Bly: yea
Allen: How long did you live out there?
Bly: over a year
Allen: Okay, um, this cult what exactly did it consist of?
Bly: Well we just go out there and one of the guys had a devil worshiping book and we would go by it, which was sacrificing dogs or chicken, we would drain their blood then we would take and cut the heart out and put it in the center of the pentagram and set fire to it and worship the devil.
Allen: Okay this pentagram what was..., was it
Bly: It's a devil symbol
Allen: Where was the pentagram?
Bly: on the floor
Allen: Okay, how would they, how would they make the pentagram?
Bly: They had some chalk, some white powder chalk and some blue chalk like carpenters chalk and would draw it with it.
Allen: Okay, who all was, who all was involved in this in this group this cult?
Bly: There would be about 20 of us at a time out there.
Allen: Okay, um, name some of the people that participated in this?
Bly: I can't remember for 1 minute to the other (inaudible) I would say it was Jason (inaudible) Baldwin then uh, Misskelley, um
Allen: Was it the father Misskelley or the son Misskelley?
Bly: son
Allen: You know both of them?
Bly: I didn't know his father
Allen: Okay, um, you know Misskelley first name?
Bly: Not right off hand I don't, if I hadn't seen it so much on the news I couldn't remember it now.
Allen: Okay, but you remember seeing him involved in this?
Bly: Oh. yes sir
Allen: Okay, anyone else? You said uh Baldwin
Bly: Yes sir, he they call him Davien.
Allen: They called who Damien?
Bly: Baldwin
Allen: Okay, they called Baldwin Damien?
Bly: I'm pretty sure it was him.
Allen: Okay, let me uh, I've I got a newspaper here.
Bly: Yes sir.
Allen: It's got Jessie Misskelley
Bly: yes sir
Allen: and Jason Baldwin's picture here? Okay is this the one they call Damien?
Bly: No sir.
Allen: That's, I'm pointing to Jason Baldwin?
Bly: I see, that's.... that's not Davien, the other boy was Davien, I don't see him on th... there he is that's Davien there.
Allen: Okay, that's the one they call Damien there?
Bly: yes sir
Allen: Davien, what ever you know him as
Bly: Davien that's devil name
Allen: Okay, and this is the person you know as Baldwin?
Bly: yes sir
Allen: Point to a picture of Jason Baldwin and this person here is do you recognize him?
Bly: He's the leader, Misskelley is
Allen: Okay, um,
Bly: All I know is Jason or Jes or Jessie something like that
Allen: you had mentioned some other names, some locations that uh that they had these at what where were some of the locations where they had some of these cult activities
Bly: Well there's a barn behind lakeshore, there's a house out on highway 50 north (inaudible)
Allen: The house out on highway 50, does somebody live there?
Bly: No sir, there ain't been nobody in that house in several years.
Allen: Okay
Bly: It's a huge house, it's about a ten room house
Allen: Okay, uh, what color is the house?
Bly: White, that's the reason we would use that chalk so when we got through we could sweep that chalk up instead of using paint like they did out there at stone hinge.
Allen: Okay, now the barn that you used, are you now I'm familiar with the area out behind lakeshore, there's a big fence in, there's a big fenced in Arkla like a pump station.
Bly: No it's right before you get to it, just as soon as you cross that ditch on that wooden bridge, there's a barn right there an old red barn, it ain't very big.
Allen: Okay, it's a red barn you say
Bly: yes sir
Allen: Now there's like 2 shop buildings out there is that what your talking about?
Bly: This is, they kept some equipment in it but it's not a shop, it's some kind of little old barn that they store equipment.
Allen: Is that barn usually locked up or?
Bly: Yes sir, we would use it, it's got a , uh roof coming off one side of it, where we get up there
Allen: Okay, um, where was some other locations that they?
Bly: That's about it
Allen: Now you mentioned
Bly: Well that out there on Rich Road, there's a guy he had a shed out there behind his house.
Allen: Rich road?
Bly: Yes sir, Rich road north, I'll have to wait till my secretary gets back because I can't remember his name
Allen: Can you describe this guy you said, how many people, would you all just go over to his house or?
Bly: No sir, uh, we hardly ever we..., we didn't go to his house about twice while I was in it
Allen: To Rich, To Rich road your talking about?
Bly: He didn't like having folks around like that
Allen: Okay
Bly: I know he would have more people out there, but he wouldn't let us young, you know let all the young one's come out there.
Allen: Okay, and were you like ask to get into this or did you just?
Bly: Yes sir, they asked did I want to get in to it see how I come up meeting these boys I have ski boat, and um, you know I didn't mind folks going with me so we, I would take them skiing with me.
Allen: Did you ever take un, any of these boys that have been charged in this?
Bly: Yes sir, Misskelley
Allen: Misskelley
Bly: Yes sir, he.., he used to go down to Hernando Point with me skiing
Allen: How long ago has this been?
Bly: Last year around May between May and September.
Allen: Did he go on more than one occasion?
Bly: Yes sir, more than once, and you know, you know you just, you know, I don't know he we brought it up but I used to not believe in the Bible or the Lord, and he ask me if I was atheist and I told him yes and that's how I come about getting in it, he told me that devil would give me more than God ever would.
Allen: Jessie Misskelley told you this?
Bly: Yes sir
Allen: Was there anything, at any of those, did you ever see any what you would call illegal activities going on at these um?
Bly: Killing the dogs was illegal to start with because we would steal the dogs from people and um, that rape where they rape that girl out there I know that was illegal.
Allen: Okay, do you remember where..., did that occur at?
Bly: Stone Hinge
Allen: How did that all come about? Can you kind of explain like you know where
Bly: Well Misskelley came up with the idea of it and then Baldwin went alone with it, Baldwin was the first one that rape her, which she kinda went alone with that but when the other guys started doing it she had a fit about it, said she would tell.
Allen: Was she, was she one of these members?
Bly: Yes sir, she was a member
Allen: Okay
Bly: I guess that's why she didn't tell
Allen: Okay, you recall her name?
Bly: Not right off hand I can't.
Allen: Okay, do you recall
Bly: I'm not sure if that's the name I gave you, I know that girl I gave is a member of the cult, but I don't remember if it's the same girl.
Allen: Okay, you gave me a minute ago, you gave me a girl name Christly
Bly: Christly McNichols
Allen: McNichols?
Bly: Yes sir
Allen: How old of girl is she?
Bly: 16
Allen: Okay, and where did this occur at?
Bly: Stone Hinge
Allen: Okay, your talking about Stone Hinge where are you talking about there?
Bly: Down the road from the county court house and stuff on that same road, right down on the right.
Allen: What's what is it, what is this place what?
Bly: It's a old part of a gin or something that used to be there it's just the rock formation of it left there now.
Allen: Okay, say at any given, um, say any given what exactly from..., from start to finish, what exactly would..., would transpire at one of these?
Bly: Well of the first thing we would draw or pentagram out and then we would hang a dog upside down from the stones.
Allen: Okay, let me, now your talking about an incident that would occur maybe at Stone..., Stone Hinge is that right?
Bly: Yes..., yes sir, that's the only place we sacrifice dogs at, we didn't do it behind
Allen: (inaudible) yellow sheet right here, yellow sheet of paper here um, can you kinda draw out what you would, kinda draw out what you would, would write or your talking about the pentagram or whatever how exactly Okay, now this would be put where now?
Bly: On the floor, right under where we hung the dog up.
Allen: Okay, you would hang the dog up above this?
Bly: We would hang the dog up above that, and then we would cut his throat the first thing, and we would catch the blood in a pail.
Allen: Okay
Bly: And then we drink a cup full a piece of the blood and then we would cut his head off, then we would cut him open and cut his heart out.
Allen: What did you do then?
Bly: We would put the heart in the middle of this and pour alcohol on it and mixed with baby oil.
Allen: Excuse me someone came in, now you take alcohol you say?
Bly: Alcohol mixed with baby oil
Allen: with baby oil?
Bly: Yes sir
Allen: and they would
Bly: would put his heart, take, we had a pie pan that we would set in the center of this, which is the same thing I'm talking you know we got the blood in and then we would put the baby oil on the heart and you know burn it, it wouldn't burn it up but it would burn it, and then we would praise to the dev... devil and stuff.
Allen: Okay, was there any certain saying or anything that you can?
Bly: Yes sir, but I can't remember them
Allen: You can't remember them?
Bly: no sir
Allen: Okay
Bly: We read it out of a book that we got from...., from the library here.
Allen: Okay, when you were involved in this cult what..., what time period are we talking about you were involved in it?
Bly: Oh, it's for at least a full year
Allen: Full year
Bly: Last year
Allen: How early on in last year?
Bly: Well really more that year, I was two years in it almost
Allen: Okay
Bly: Got out part of it llast year
Allen: How many people would you say would be involved in it?
Bly: 20
Allen: About 20 people
Bly: Yes sir, it was never less than eight
Allen: Never less than eight
Bly: Yes sir, it was from 8 to 20 there every time
Allen: Was there any significance about how many people could be there as far as any religious thing that was?
Bly: No sir, from 1 to 50 it wouldn't make no difference just who ever came
Allen: Okay
Bly: We always had a certain time to meet out there during the week.
Allen: What time would you meet during the week?
Bly: Sunday
Allen: I mean
Bly: We always go on Sunday
Allen: It would be on a Sunday
Bly: Yes sir
Allen: Is there any certain time on sunday that you would meet?
Bly: Yes sir, 6 o'clock
Allen: 6 o'clock
Bly: Yes sir
Allen: Did you ever know of any other days that um, thay had any kind little activities going on?
Bly: No sir
Allen: Okay
Bly: If there was I was left out
Allen: Okay, always on a Sunday?
Bly: yes sir
Allen: At 6 o'clock at night
Bly: 6 o'clock in the evening
Allen: Was there any significance about the 6 o'clock time period?
Bly: Yes sir, it was in the book that's what time your suppose to start it
Allen: At 6 o'clock
Bly: Yes sir
Allen: Do you know, do you recall what this book look like or what the name of this book was?
Bly: Uh, it was the devil something (inaudible) it was like five letter name on it, it would be easy to find in the library
Allen: Do you know what color the book was?
Bly: Black, shiny black
Allen: Was it shiny black?
Bly: Yes sir,
Allen: Did it have any type
Bly: About a 100 page book
Allen: Have any drawings or anything on the front cover of it?
Bly: Yes sir, it's got like a dragon, like a dragon with like a goats body
Allen: like a dragon with like a goats body?
Bly: Yes sir, it was St. Lucifer second son
Allen: It was what?
Bly: It was it was Satan on the front of it that's who it was
Allen: Now you were telling me earlier about we were talking said something about, you ask me whether or not something about the boys that were killed
Bly: If they were beat to death? Cause I know that's how he
Allen: I can't answer that question
Bly: Well, I understand that, but that's the how we do the dogs, we beat them to death first
Allen: What would you beat them to death with?
Bly: With sticks
Allen: With sticks
Bly: yes sir
Allen: Were the dogs alive when, they were brought out there?
Bly: yes sir
Allen: And then they
Bly: and they were alive when they we hung them up we would beat them to death over the top of the pentagram
Allen: Okay, with sticks
Bly: everybody would have to do it, everybody would eat them
Allen: Okay, how was the dogs tied, you said you tied them up?
Bly: tied them up by the hind legs
Allen: tied them up by the hind legs?
Bly: yes sir
Allen: Okay, you said earlier that as far as you were asking whether or not the boys were beating, were beaten? How would you think that..., that they would have if some one say was in a cult of..., of this nature how would, how would you think they would have killed those boys?
Bly: They beat them to death
Allen: What else, anything else they would have done?
Bly: They would have raped them, usually like I say I don't know why they didn't cut their heads off cause you suppose to, if you've done that your suppose to cut their heads off, we cut all the dogs heads off.
Allen: Cut the dogs heads off?
Bly: Yes sir, we would hand the head up and do away throw the body down it it big ditch down there by Stone Hinge.
Allen: Okay, now the, any other body parts that they might cut off?
Bly: Their penis
Allen: How would
Bly: Bite it off
Allen: They would bite the penis off?
Bly: yes sir, that's what it reads in the book to do
Allen: Now
Bly: Devil circumcision
Allen: It's called the Devil circumcision?
Bly: yes sir
Allen: What did they, did they do this to dogs?
Bly: No sir
Allen: Uh?
Bly: Wasn't nobody, wasn't nobody care courage to do it to the dogs
Allen: Okay
Bly: We would cut, we would cut their penis off
Allen: Okay
Bly: But they won't bite off like you were suppose to
Allen: Any..., any particular kind of knife that they would use in any kind of cult activity?
Bly: Well Misskelley always had the knife he carried on his side all the time, it's a hunters knife.
Allen: what did that knife look like?
Bly: It uh, had a leather handle wrapped leather handle, where is your pin? It had like a can opener they like right here, it come out and it was swivel down the top like that right there, like a little saw deal, like I say it came out here and had a steel thing that came out like that and all this was wrapped with leather handle
Allen: Now your saying
Bly: (inaudible) This look like a can opener right there it had a indention in it that come in like this
Allen: Now the end of this blade here what did it look like?
Bly: Ripples in it
Allen: Ripples?
Bly: Yea, it's just like this, it called a gut knife
Allen: Called a gut knife?
Bly: Yes sir, so when it goes it tears and makes..., makes it's a blooding knife, plus it had the little indention in here in top.
Allen: Where would a person get a knife like this?
Bly: Pawn shops, or bait shop, bait shop where they sold hunting materials, I had one, I brought mine from the pawn shop, not the pawn shop but the, where they sell old army stuff there on Broadway.
Allen: Any idea, how long was this knife that Misskelley carried?
Bly: I'd say 11 inches
Allen: 11 inches?
Bly: Total length of it about 11 inches
Allen: Okay, and this..., this to you knowledge is..., a knife that, the one you drew out here other than not being to scale as far as 11 inches, this is
Bly: Well see this also, that..., knife will fit on it's the kind that fit on the end of uh, rifle
Allen: Knife, a bayonet knife?
Bly: yes sir
Allen: Okay
Bly: Because I remember he had a little hitch on it that you could put it on a rifle, cause I got a rifle like that, and I didn't have the knife for it
Allen: Now this knife did it, did it have a point on it?
Bly: yes, there was more point than what I draw out
Allen: can you kinda draw exactly what your, what your talking about, maybe as close as you can as far as the blade that this knife you've seen?
Bly: About that far, and then about like that, then it had, uh kinda like you know apush a indention like you push down like this, came down the side and right throw here
Allen: Okay
Bly: All the down, it's called a bleeder what it is, gut knife.
Allen: Okay and Misskelley carried that knife?
Bly: yes sir, he had it all the time on him unless
Allen: These other 2 guys that you hinted were in this cult, Jason Baldwin um, did he have any part in this ceremony?
Bly: Oh yes sir, in all of them, all of us do
Allen: Okay
Bly: Everybody had to hit the dogs, everybody
Allen: Everybody had to hit the dogs?
Bly: yes sir
Allen: Was that just something that?
Bly: That's just part of the ritual
Allen: Okay, this
Bly: If you didn't hit him you had to leave
Allen: This guy here um, I'm looking at this the Commercial Appeal newspaper, Memphis Tennessee, Saturday morning June the 5th 1993, now you a minute ago pointed this person out as being the, the guy you know as Damien?
Bly: Damien, that's right I was saying Davien
Allen: Damien, Davien, Damien
Bly: Damien
Allen: What part would he have in this part in this kind of ceremony?
Bly: Well we took turns, sometimes he would cut the heart out, sometimes I would, or Misskelley, or any of the other people, we all, we spread it out different during times ever who didn't do it the last time, would have to do it that time.
Allen: Okay, anybody you lived at 1900 E Barton after you moved from Lakeshore is that correct?
Bly: yes sir
Allen: Is there anybody over there in your, in the neighborhood that you movd into that was involved in any of this cult activities?
Bly: Yes sir, there's guy on south 14th.
Allen: Down on south 14th?
Bly: yes sir
Allen: This white guy or black guy?
Bly: White guy.
Allen: That lives on south 14th?
Bly: Well it's on the south of barton you know
Allen: Okay, do you know what his name might have been?
Bly: Uh, it would take me a while to remember it I was married to my wife for months before i could remember her name
Allen: Can you point out, say if we were just to drive by, could you point out where he lived?
Bly: Yes sir
Allen: The person your talking about?
Bly: yes sir
Allen: How old the guy, the guy on south 14th?
Bly: he's about 30
Allen: about 30 years old?
Bly: yes sir
Allen: Anyone else over in that area that you can also think of?
Bly: No sir, no sir, a lot, a lot of these people
Allen: any younger kids?
Bly: No sir, not right off hand
Allen: Okay, now you said that um, when I talked to you earlier that something about, um, that you, the 3 boys that were killed that..., that you lived not too far from them
Bly: I lived on the same block, which I call the same block, I live at 1900 and the other boys live right there on the corner, that little old blond headed boy did
Allen: Okay
Bly: Cause like I say, me and my kids were riding bike with them every evening just about
Allen: Okay, now your were, you were in jail during the time of these murders is that correct?
Bly: Oh, yes sir
Allen: Okay
Bly: Boy, I'm glad to
Allen: Was there..., was there ever any talk about um, at any of these meetings or
Bly: Yes
Allen: Activities was there any talk about any sacrificing kids or anything?
Bly: Yes sir there was, yes sir
Allen: What kind of talk?
Bly: They were trying to pick out, you know wanting to know who we could pick out to do it to, let I say which I was already leaving the cult anyway because they raped that girl.
Allen: Okay
Bly: This is about a month before the boys got killed.
Allen: Okay, this is when you left the cult?
Bly: Yes sir, it was about a later and that's when they killed them boys.
Allen: Who do, do you recall, can you recall who how many people were at a meeting that where anything was discussed about human sacrificing?
Bly: There was about 10 of us out there.
Allen: Can you recall any of the people that were at this particular meeting? Where was this meeting at?
Bly: Stone Hinge
Allen: Okay, who, what kind of
Bly: But that hate where they planned do it at, they were planning on sacrificing them up there on 50 at that house and leave them there.
Allen: Out there on 50?
Bly: Yes sir
Allen: Is that
Bly: That's were they were going to do it if they
Allen: Is 50 the hwy that cuts off the interstate there and goes throught Crawfordsville?
Bly: Yes sir.
Allen: How far up that road is that house your talking about?
Bly: A mile
Allen: About a mile?
Bly: Yes sir
Allen: Is it on the right hand side of 50 or the left side?
Bly: The right side, on the right
Allen: And it's a big white house
Bly: A big white house, at least about a 8 to 10 room house, it's a huge house.
Allen: Does anybody keep it up or anything?
Bly: No sir, they just keep it locked up, we..., we had a window fixed so we could go through the window and then open the doors.
Allen: Okay, at this meeting at Stone Hinge you recall who was there?
Bly: No right off hand, I know all those boys were there, Christley she was there, Christley McNichols.
Allen: Christley McNichols
Bly: Yes sir
Allen: She lives out at lakeshore?
Bly: Yes sir
Allen: Okay
Bly: She was there and uh the Baldwin boy
Allen: Can you shut that door over there
Bly: It's just real hard for me to remember names at all
Allen: Your son was he at a lot of these meetings?
Bly: He was at one meeting
Allen: He was at one meeting
Bly: Yes sir, just one meeting
Allen: How long ago has that been?
Bly: He couldn't he wouldn't drink the blood
Allen: Okay
Bly: So we..., we were scared of him
Allen: Okay, now getting back to you said Christley McNichols was there at this last meeting where they talk about sacrificing?
Bly: Yes sir, the Powers boy
Allen: Powers
Bly: Jamie..., Jamie Powers
Allen: How old is this Jamie Powers?
Bly: About 18
Allen: Do you know where he may live?
Bly: He lives at lakeshore
Allen: Okay
Bly: On the last row
Allen: Okay
Bly: Gotit, he lives next door gotit that messes with all the volkwagons
Allen: out at lakeshore
Bly: Yes sir
Allen: Okay, uh, anyone else you can think of?
Bly: Not right off hand
Allen: And you said the three boys, now you were referring to these?
Bly: They were always there
Allen: These?
Bly: Misskelley, Baldwin, Damien they were always there.
Allen: Okay, and this was always on a sunday night?
Bly: Yes sir
Allen: What did you say about the significance, the significance of the 6 O'clock?
Bly: It just was in the book so we went by the book.
Allen: Okay, what did you call the book?
Bly: (inaudible)
Allen: Any particular name?
Bly: Just the devil book
Allen: just the devil okay
Bly: It told you how to sacrifice, it tell you when the best time of the month, even through we didn't do it your suppose to have a sacrifice every full moon.
Allen: Every full moon?
Bly: Yes sir, even if it was during the week you were suppose to have it on that
Allen: On a full moon?
Bly: Yes sir, but that you know it's hard for some of the young boys to get away from their mama's and stuff because of that, so we would just always have it on a sunday.
Allen: Okay, was there any significance with the younger the younger boys and..., and having it at 6 o'clock which would be earlier in the evening than later in the evening?
Bly: No not really
Allen: I mean 6 o'clock suppose to be the time?
Bly: 6 o'clock suppose to be the time, that's what was in the book, and we went by the book
Allen: Do you know did..., did he keep it in anything particular or did he just carry it with him?
Bly: He just carried it with him, we would all meet up there, must the other boys they had bicycles they had to ride out there and I would drive out there.
Allen: Okay, must of them ride bicycles?
Bly: Yes sir
Allen: Okay, did anybody else drive out there other than you?
Bly: Yes sir
Allen: Who?
Bly: (iinaudible) I'll have to take time, I'll make you a list of all who was out there, it take me alittle while, but I can remember of them.
Allen: Okay, well this, when your talking about, your talking about one of these meetings how long before the boys were killed that one of these meetings take place where they talked about ?
Bly: About a month
Allen: about a month
Bly: Yes sir
Allen: How did, how did that conversation get brought up?
Bly: It was in the book
Allen: It was in the book?
Bly: We had just got to that part
Allen: Okay, what..., what exactly do you recall the book said?
Bly: (inaudible) Well it said it had to be to make a significance of a human they had to be 8 years old or younger.
Allen: 8 years old or younger?
Bly: Yes sir
Allen: Okay, um, what else did it say?
Bly: Sir, it said the same thing like you did the dogs, your suppose hang, your suppose hang them up and beat them to death and cut the heart out and cut their peter off suppose to bite it off
Allen: Okay
Bly: (inaudible) Like I say after they ..they done raped that girl and they come over there I got out of it cause I.., I was scared, cause I know you can go to jail over something like that, it's always found out.
Allen: Okay, now I'm not particular asking you to..., to as far as any..., any of these activities or any of these cult related meetings or what ever these significances that they had was there any sex involved at all?
Bly: Just that one time that I remember.
Allen: Just that one time
Bly: Yes sir, that girl 16 year old girl
Allen: Was there any..., any sex other than, I mean I'm not talking about for... force... forceful rape or anything like that, was there?
Bly: There was corn holing out there.
Allen: Okay, when your talking about corn holing what are you talking about?
Bly: ****ing in the rectum
Allen: Okay, who would do this?
Bly: Different ones
Allen: Okay
Bly: This Davien is the main one
Allen: Who?
Bly: Davien
Allen: Damien
Bly: Yea
Allen: Who would he do this to?
Bly: Sir, there was a couple of small boys were in there he would get one of them
Allen: Okay, when your talking about small boys how old were these boys?
Bly: About 10
Allen: About 10, where would they be from?
Bly: They from Lakeshore
Allen: Their from lakeshore?
Bly: One of them lives in the third house from the store.
Allen: Do you recall what his name was?
Bly: No sir, say it's going to take me a while but I can get all the names for you.
Allen: Okay
Bly: I'm on that medicine right now and I feel looped.
Allen: Okay, what kind of uh, it might be difficult for you to answer this, but what..., what exactly are you, are you in jail for right now?
Bly: For rape.
Allen: What..., exactly
Bly: I'm charge with corn holing a 8 year old girl
Allen: Okay, was this girl
Bly: Stepdaughter
Allen: Stepdaughter okay
Bly: But I didn't it
Allen: But you didn't do it?
Bly: No sir, I fumbled with a 14 year old but I didn't do it to the 8.
Allen: Okay
Bly: I don't want no pussy that ain't got hair on it.
Allen: Okay, this um, this activity that your talking that um, where would this occur?
Bly: (inaudible)
Allen: Was this part of any type of ceremony that would been
Bly: Yes sir, it was part ceremony.
Allen: Was there anything written as far as in the book about this or was this just something?
Bly: Yes sir, no it was written in the book
Allen: It was written in the book?
Bly: Yes sir
Allen: Okay, do you remember what..., what book, what the book recall anything about the book as far as what um, what exactly was this, I mean was this any, do you remember anything was this part of?
Bly: It was just part of the ritual
Allen: Part of the ritual
Bly: Yes sir
Allen: Was it at every ritual
Bly: No correct that at the full moon
Allen: At the full moon ritual?
Bly: Yes sir, we would kill a dog then on full moon
Allen: Was there ever any um, oral sex performed at any of these?
Bly: Yes
Allen: Okay, would this be woman, would there be woman involved in this?
Bly: Yes sir, head jobs
Allen: Would there be man involved in this?
Bly: Yes sir, the man that were guy there was a couple of guy people in there
Allen: Do you recall any of the guy people that were in this?
Bly: I don't remember names right off hand.
Allen: Okay
Bly: Like I say I will get them for you through, I want to get everything out, I want to get my life back straight.
Allen: Okay
Bly: Psychiatrist they trying to help me, she's probably back by now
Allen: I've got this list here um, uh this is just I'm going, I'm going to carry you back to the county jail here in just a few minutes.
Bly: Yea
Allen: And on the way if you don't mind uh, I would like um,
Bly: I'll show you the houses I can do that
Allen: Okay, show me some of the houses where some of the members lived? This is one of this, I'll get the one on north 14th street or north 14th south of Barton a list, but this is a list of the north Rich road addresses um, you say you might recall the person name?
Bly: Yes sir
Allen: Okay, I don't have any kind of list from Lakeshore utilities, just a utilities check look down through there and see if recall, or can remember that persons name that was, the person on north Rich road that had it sometimes at his house did he ever go out there with you all?
Bly: Yes sir
Allen: Would he go often?
Bly: He tried, he tried to work his in to being the leader, Lea... leader but Misskelley wouldn't let him, I don't see it, I don't realize no names here. No sir, I don't see it on here.
Allen: Okay
Bly: Can I try to call Betty again?
Allen: Can I get you too, this yellow piece of paper that I've got here um, how you drew out a um, a red picture of a knife and then down there you drew, I ask you to draw a better picture of the blade and this pentagram or whatever can I just get you to put your name on this piece of paper?
Bly: Yes sir
Allen: So, and put today's date of 6-29 of 93 and put the time now is 12:15 pm, put pm behind that please and it's my understanding that you, that you J.C. brought you up here this morning and your giving this statement on free will?
Bly: Own free will cause, I was to get everything out, get out in the open and get clear of this deal.
Allen: Okay, now
Bly: I'm getting psychiatrist help now and I want get where I don't see the devil no more, I figure if do this it would another way to get rid of him.
Allen: Okay, now I just want to get this cleared up as far as this tape goes uh, today's the first day that I have ever seen you before as far
Bly: Yes sir, I've been telling them
Allen: And any police officers you have been telling people about this?
Bly: Yes sir
Allen: Okay, now did any police officers at the county jail or anything offer you anything any..., any leniency on you charge or anything
Bly: No no
Allen: To come up here and talk to us?
Bly: No sir
Allen: Okay
Bly: I was telling J.C. about hit while ago, and he wanted to know did I want to tell somebody? And I said yes sir I would like to get it out in the open, get everything, get everything truthful.
Allen: Okay, your talking about J.C. Shelton?
Bly: Yes sir
Allen: Well, all I got to say is, I would like to on the way up there or whatever
Bly: Go by some of the houses
Allen: To let you point out you know a couple of places or whatever
Bly: Okay
Allen: And I may, I may in up um, maybe tomorrow um may need to taLk to you again uh
Bly: Okay, I'll be trying to remember some of the names
Allen: This book, do you know if this book come from a library, local library?
Bly: That's where he told me he got it from the library so that's the only thing I know, I believe he would have got it from Marion Library.
Allen: From the Marion Library
Bly: I'm just guessing you know, cuase that's where he's from over there at Marion.
Allen: Okay, your recognize the book if you, if I
Bly: Oh yes sir, yes sir it's no doubt it's a hard back book , like I say and it's got, like I say it looks like a goat body with hooves and then it comes up kinda like a dragon on his head and everything with round horns.
Allen: Okay
Bly: It's easy you know to recognize
Allen: Okay, I'm going to conclude this interview the time is now 12:17 pm.

[8bitagent]

**EDIT***
Holy shit does Echols in the 92-93 timeframe sound like one messed up disturbed kid. Steeped in violence and the occult. Not saying that makes him guilty of the WM3 killings at all, just saying. Damn. Check out this article that goes by a lot of witnesses, mental health records, court records, some family and friends. Even his mom was scared of him. Sounds like Echols even in court was not so innocent as people made him sound
http://www.commercialappeal.com/opinion ... ng-element

Ok...

I've no doubt there was a lot of actual occult based cult crimes in America in the 1980s and 1990s. I don't subscribe to the "Satanic Panic=everything is dismissed" notion. I think Hosana Church alone
proves even up until the 2000's weird shits been happening. I think True Detective Season 1 totally hits the nail on a lot of this stuff.

I saw the Paradise Lost film in 1996 on vhs, as well as the second one and looked into the case even in the late 90s on the internet.

To me the case boils down to three questions:

1. Where was Echols and the others absolutely pinned down to be, timewise and alibi wise during the time forensics determined the crimes took place?
2. Was there any other possible suspects or strong rumor of others(or groups or individuals) looked into?
3. Was Misskelly coerced into the initial confession?

There is also this
http://www.myfoxmemphis.com/story/21810 ... -3-murders

I also just have a hard time believing Jason Baldwin was involved.
http://www.metro.us/entertainment/jason ... RUbyq170A/

Vice short doc on the Hosana church

[divideandconquer]

Was Misskelly coerced into the initial confession?

Of the four confessions, June 3, 1993 was the only one where police were present. However, his first unofficial confession occurred prior to his statement, post-polygraph and it's not as if he initially intended to confess, or that the police coerced him, but that he was simply reacting, trying to lessen his involvement throughout. In other words, emotion preceded thought. If you're guilty and at the same time, scared to death of punishment, I can understand someone fluctuating between the truth and lies. So, the police didn't seem to lead or coerce him as much as bring him back to what he initially said.

According to records he arrived at the police station at 10 AM The first official confession occurred between 2:44-3:18pm and as far as I know attorneys were present, but I'm not sure. He was asked if he wanted to talk to his father and Jesse maintains throughout all his records and statement that he was treated well

Also, there is no denying that Misskelley had knowledge of details of the crime not known to the public; in fact, the two sticks that were found near the bodies of the victims were not retrieved by Detective Ridge until Misskelley described the crimes. The smaller stick was found floating in the creek near the bodies and contained carving, and both had distinguishing marks because it appeared that someone had removed the bark. The other stick had the shirt wrapped around it. Moreover, he clearly knew that Christopher Byers had been castrated and that one of the victims had been cut in the face. This information was not known by the public at the time. Even more important, Misskelley implicated himself in the murders because he admitted that Michael Moore attempted to escape from the crime scene, and he chased and caught Moore and brought him back. He also described at least one of the boys as "wiggling like a worm" at the time he was thrown in the water.

Sometimes it's not what he didn't get right (whiskey bottle, sticks, NOT tied up to be restrained, etc) but what he didn't get wrong. They tried to lead him down false paths (skateboard, third bike) and he didn't bite.

Miskelley's confession sometimes worked in Echols and Baldwin's favor. Jessie Misskelley told Inspector Gitchell that the three were in a cult and Detective Ridge testified at the hearing that his investigation revealed that appellants and Misskelley were close-knit members of a cult, and, upon Echols and Baldwin discovering that Misskelley had been taken into custody, Echols and Baldwin were likely to destroy any evidence that might be in their possession or at their residence, such as photographs, knives, and clothing.

I just find it so odd that everyone's defending this obvious sociopath, and his capable cronies, when they have no problem believing the mild-mannered, wimpy kids so often portrayed as lone mass murderers in recent events. These are probably the same ones who accuse you of mortal sin when questioning these lone "wolves" because of the victims, yet when it comes to the WM3, most people are so absorbed in the "plight" of the WM3, they totally forget about three innocent victims who suffered so much before they died . http://www.salemnews.com/opinion/letter ... 2c804.html

To the editor:

CinemaSalem will host the documentary “West of Memphis” today as part of the Salem Film Fest. The executive producer of this very deceptive film is Damien Echols, one of the so-called “West Memphis Three” and the man convicted of murdering my son and his two best friends in 1993. A jury sentenced Echols to death for his crime in 1994. However, a new prosecutor inherited the case in 2011. He was overwhelmed by the WM3 all-star defense team and celebrity supporters and allowed Echols and co-convicts Jason Baldwin and Jessie Misskelley to enter guilty pleas yet walk free with time served. This amounted to only 18 years for the savage triple homicide of three innocent 8-year-old boys.

The Salem Film Fest and CinemaSalem should be ashamed of themselves for supporting a convicted child murderer. In the eyes of the law, he is a child killer. It is shameful for anyone to support this monster. I urge the residents of Salem to boycott this film.

If you do choose to go, please first go to www.westmemphisthreefacts.com and educate yourself on all of the facts left out of this disgusting propaganda piece disguised as a “documentary.”

I believe you have a very dangerous individual in your city. Please be cautious. He certainly shouldn’t be celebrated.

Todd Moore

West Memphis, Ark.

[8bitagent]

Was Misskelly coerced into the initial confession?

Of the four confessions, June 3, 1993 was the only one where police were present. However, his first unofficial confession occurred prior to his statement, post-polygraph and it's not as if he initially intended to confess, or that the police coerced him, but that he was simply reacting, trying to lessen his involvement throughout. In other words, emotion preceded thought. If you're guilty and at the same time, scared to death of punishment, I can understand someone fluctuating between the truth and lies. So, the police didn't seem to lead or coerce him as much as bring him back to what he initially said.

According to records he arrived at the police station at 10 AM The first official confession occurred between 2:44-3:18pm and as far as I know attorneys were present, but I'm not sure. He was asked if he wanted to talk to his father and Jesse maintains throughout all his records and statement that he was treated well

Also, there is no denying that Misskelley had knowledge of details of the crime not known to the public; in fact, the two sticks that were found near the bodies of the victims were not retrieved by Detective Ridge until Misskelley described the crimes. The smaller stick was found floating in the creek near the bodies and contained carving, and both had distinguishing marks because it appeared that someone had removed the bark. The other stick had the shirt wrapped around it. Moreover, he clearly knew that Christopher Byers had been castrated and that one of the victims had been cut in the face. This information was not known by the public at the time. Even more important, Misskelley implicated himself in the murders because he admitted that Michael Moore attempted to escape from the crime scene, and he chased and caught Moore and brought him back. He also described at least one of the boys as "wiggling like a worm" at the time he was thrown in the water.

Sometimes it's not what he didn't get right (whiskey bottle, sticks, NOT tied up to be restrained, etc) but what he didn't get wrong. They tried to lead him down false paths (skateboard, third bike) and he didn't bite.

Miskelley's confession sometimes worked in Echols and Baldwin's favor. Jessie Misskelley told Inspector Gitchell that the three were in a cult and Detective Ridge testified at the hearing that his investigation revealed that appellants and Misskelley were close-knit members of a cult, and, upon Echols and Baldwin discovering that Misskelley had been taken into custody, Echols and Baldwin were likely to destroy any evidence that might be in their possession or at their residence, such as photographs, knives, and clothing.

I just find it so odd that everyone's defending this obvious sociopath, and his capable cronies, when they have no problem believing the mild-mannered, wimpy kids so often portrayed as lone mass murderers in recent events. These are probably the same ones who accuse you of mortal sin when questioning these lone "wolves" because of the victims, yet when it comes to the WM3, most people are so absorbed in the "plight" of the WM3, they totally forget about three innocent victims who suffered so much before they died . http://www.salemnews.com/opinion/letter ... 2c804.html

To the editor:

CinemaSalem will host the documentary “West of Memphis” today as part of the Salem Film Fest. The executive producer of this very deceptive film is Damien Echols, one of the so-called “West Memphis Three” and the man convicted of murdering my son and his two best friends in 1993. A jury sentenced Echols to death for his crime in 1994. However, a new prosecutor inherited the case in 2011. He was overwhelmed by the WM3 all-star defense team and celebrity supporters and allowed Echols and co-convicts Jason Baldwin and Jessie Misskelley to enter guilty pleas yet walk free with time served. This amounted to only 18 years for the savage triple homicide of three innocent 8-year-old boys.

The Salem Film Fest and CinemaSalem should be ashamed of themselves for supporting a convicted child murderer. In the eyes of the law, he is a child killer. It is shameful for anyone to support this monster. I urge the residents of Salem to boycott this film.

If you do choose to go, please first go to http://www.westmemphisthreefacts.com and educate yourself on all of the facts left out of this disgusting propaganda piece disguised as a “documentary.”

I believe you have a very dangerous individual in your city. Please be cautious. He certainly shouldn’t be celebrated.

Todd Moore

West Memphis, Ark.

Knowing more details about Echols behavior in the court and leading up to the killings(as reported in mainstream news articles by investigative journalists) it does paint Echols in a more sinister light, to me.
I also can see how Misskelly could go along with Echols deeds.

However I just have a hard time seeing Baldwin involved in all that...of the three he seems the most genuine and "with it"

[divideandconquer]

I didn't realize that Echol's birth name is/was (not sure if name legally changed) Michael Wayne Hutchison. Damien is an interesting choice of names considering his beliefs and interests.

Interesting conversation with Dr. Dale Griffis regarding his academic credentials--the alphabet soup of appendices required that testify to the fact that you are indoctrinated enough to succeed--that followed up an interview about the West Memphis 3, which I never heard because the youtube channel, The Ooperman Report (main focus is the Pedophocracy), was suspended. I mean, one minute it was there and I clicked back to it and the channel was gone:

This account has been suspended due to multiple or severe violations of YouTube's policy against spam, gaming, misleading content, or other Terms of Service violations.

Anyway, I stumbled across this brief podcast where the retired Griffis not only defends his credentials (5.5 hours of his 6 hours testimony revolved around his credentials...20 minutes on the actual case) including over 50 years in the criminal justice system, but also claims he was called in to take a look at Satanic activity in the area before the murders took place.

https://www.spreaker.com/user/oppermanr ... hree-facts

P.S. It appears Jeff Wells read his thesis.

From RI blog: http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2 ... -part.html

I also read an excellent thesis written by Dr. Dale Griffis on Mind Control. Methods of breaking down the victim described in his paper matched those described by our children.

[Hunter]

I have a question, it may be a dumb one so forgive me because I am sincere in my intent.

First of all I am not a newbie and I have done most of the required reading about RA but one thing I have never quite understood is this;


When you speak of RA is the implication that people are dressing up as satanists in costumes, using props etc, and using the costumes and props to create fear and gain power over thier victims but dont really believe they are ACTUALLY worshiping a real demonic being, it is all merely for show and to scare their victims.

OR

Do these people actually believe they ARE IN FACT worshiping a real demonic being and gaining some sort of power through the use of some sort of sexual ritual?

And last:

Do you, as a reader about or believer in RA, believe yourself that they are in fact worshiping a real being and do you believe there is power for them to gain or harness through the use of these sort of rituals?


Its always been hard for me to grasp it all because I dont believe demons or anything like that are real so to me it is just a bunch of sick pedos dressing up in costumes for what reason, I am not sure, hence my asking what the general consensus is on this.

[Hunter]

Just a follow up, I guess what I am getting at is, is it like in ancient times when they sacrificed animals to their gods they really believed they were getting something in return for that or are they just sick pedos using religion as a means to justify sexual abuse, or do you believe that there is in fact a "dark side" that these people are able to tap in to through the use of these rituals?

When you read about well known politicians having sex with children at Eyes Wide Shut type parties, is there really anything behind this beyond costumes and props, what is going on in THEIR minds do you think, are they just thinking about having sex with the kids or do they really believe they are taking part in an actual ritual that brings them actual power or rewards them somehow?

[Hunter]

As far as this case goes, I dont know if they actually did it or not but I did not support the conviction, IMO the burden of proof was not met and to me that is a very important issue. I tended to believe they were innocent though but as 8bit has said in the thread, there are some very big things that continue to nag at you and pull you back in to considering their possible guilt.

[divideandconquer]

I believe that these people believe that there is a "dark side" that they are able to tap in to through the use of these rituals, and as hard as it is for people to accept, I also think that many of these true believers reside at the top of the food chain, hence the celebrity support and millions of dollars given in support of these West Memphis idiots. However, I'm sure that there are those who do not really believe but join in nevertheless, either because they're threatened/blackmailed or just because it impresses his or her benefactor(s).

Speaking of the WM3, Johnny Depp just bought a Greek island for 4.2 million euros.

http://www.msn.com/en-au/entertainment/ ... ar-AAd5mG2

Supposedly, so did Warren Buffet (15 million euros), although he's denying it.

The Greek firesale begins!

[Hunter]

I believe that these people believe that there is a "dark side" that they are able to tap in to through the use of these rituals, and as hard as it is for people to accept, I also think that many of these true believers reside at the top of the food chain, hence the celebrity support and millions of dollars given in support of these West Memphis idiots. However, I'm sure that there are those who do not really believe but join in nevertheless, either because they're threatened/blackmailed or just because it impresses his or her benefactor(s).

Speaking of the WM3, Johnny Depp just bought a Greek island for 4.2 million euros.

http://www.msn.com/en-au/entertainment/ ... ar-AAd5mG2

Supposedly, so did Warren Buffet (15 million euros), although he's denying it.

The Greek firesale begins!

Thanks for that DandQ. I agree, its probably like anything else in life, you have some who do believe, some who dont, your true believers and your posers. And the fact that they ARE powerful, hold positions of power and are rich probably makes them believe even more that these sex pedo rituals are the reason for all their success. It is really hard for me to imagine that some of them can be that DUMB and SICK but I do not not doubt that these things happen in some circles at the top rung of power. Sick and crazy shit for sure.