Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Moderators: DrVolin, Elvis, Jeff

Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby compared2what? » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:07 pm

8bitagent wrote:It's now been a week and some change. So what's the latest?

Brothers were radicalized on a diet of Alex Jones and al Qaeda's magazine
Reason for the bombing was anti war sentiments
Bombs built from al Qaeda magazine
No evidence via the surviving suspect's word or cell records that the two had any accomplices
Younger brother admits the whole thing
A large part of the narrative comes from the kidnapped white/chinese carjack victim
Thousands of Justin Bieber fans online now have a new idol to wet their knickers for
Even highlights war in the Caucusus/Chechen/Degastani region even tho there's no direct link to it


I wouldn't bet for or against any part of that, except for (a) that if they did it, Alex Jones would make perfect sense to me, in context, for stated reasons; and (b) that it's possible that they did it.

Provisionally, I'll also bet against his admitting the whole thing and al Qaeda magazine, I guess. .

.
Oh and police/militarized cops/etc acted accordingly. This wasnt even close to martial law.


Show me that they didn't and/or that it was and I'll change my mind. .

Or tell me what justifies insinuating that only someone with an agenda would say that when there's no sign of anything close to martial law, there's not.

Um, did I miss anything? Alex Jones/al Qaeda/anti war inspired, acted alone.


I don't know if they were or weren't inspired by Alex Jones or antiwar sentiments. But both make sense to me. I agree that's bad for Alex Jones and people who are antiwar. And in the latter case, care enough not to remain willfully blind to it, even.

So please tell me how that hurts the cause for peace. I want to know.

. Nothing that even hinted at martial law displayed.


Martial law is the suspension of civil authority and imposition of military rule. So when the FBI, police and Governor of Massachussets are all very visibly running the show and there's no sign that the military is, it's not being hinted at.

A police state usually has secret police. But it might not. What it never has is:

Enough freedom for people to post videos to YouTube alleging that there is one that then stay there unthreatened forever while everybody bickers about it without penalty or loss of rights, standing or property. That's the thing about totalitarianism. No wiggle room

So systematic repression or GTFO. Show me where I'm going wrong.

Whew. Ok guess we can close this thread eh?


Fine. You win. The military's in charge and you have no rights.

I'm plenty unhappy enough with things the way they are already. But it takes all kinds.
“If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and 50 dollars in cash I don’t care if a Drone kills him or a policeman kills him.” -- Rand Paul
User avatar
compared2what?
 
Posts: 8383
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:31 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby barracuda » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:17 pm

Creeping fascism. It's just too damn slow for some people.
User avatar
barracuda
 
Posts: 12887
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:58 pm
Location: Niles, California
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Canadian_watcher » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:21 pm

compared2what? wrote:
.
Oh and police/militarized cops/etc acted accordingly. This wasnt even close to martial law.


Show me that they didn't and/or that it was and I'll change my mind. .


so is this just semantics for you, then? As in, Vietnam was not a war because war was never declared, type of thing?

Could you maybe explain what martial law might look like? See, I've had family live through a declared and activated period of marital law (YES! IT's TRUE!) so I *do* know what it looks like - it isn't just a fucking imagined fantasy of it. Let's see if you're close. Go on.
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
User avatar
Canadian_watcher
 
Posts: 3706
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:30 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Karmamatterz » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:35 pm

The Consul wrote:

"The "Bad Guys" have been in government for quite some time. One Count Orlok is replaced by another, one "Max Factored Actor" (as Dylan Thomas said) after another. We are in a choose your brand democracy, but there are only two brands and they are both fascist. Mussolini is not as bad as Hitler, but Hitler gets more results!

It is so surreal. Djochar, he is so cute. I feel sorry for him, but I also feel sorry for all those people he blew apart; if, indeed, it was him. If indeed he exists and if indeed Boston is not a hologram and we all died a long time ago and this is our final episode of Lost consciousness trying to make sense of how we perished so suddenly, so needlessly.

Any one of us they finger. Knock knock knock. Out you go. Into the Van. Maybe you get Mirandized, maybe you don't. Maybe no one every hears from you again. Maybe they screw up and hang you by your wrists and ankles from an undisclosed location an beat you so bad that they burst your liver. This happens right before they find out they got the wrong guy. They got your phone number off the ph book of a pizza deliverty guy named Achmed Mahood Mamia Brando, who they had been tracking since he exhibited pre natal fantasies of blowing stuff up; and it turns out he was innocent, too and was sadly lost in the gulag of black sites. Knock knock knock. Bam bam bam. Off you go.

So I hear lots of tough sounding patriots say "I would be willing to die to protect your right to _______." I have yet to hear anyone say "I would be willing to suffer abduction and extraordinary rendition to a foreign dungeon to be tortured undlessly without even access to the Red Cross - if it meant you could be free!" Or maybe those without the stomach for such insanity invoking sessions of agony can opt or plan B. "I am willing to be blown apart instantly, even by mistake, with my children or family, in the name of making this a safer America that is a better place to do business."

What did George Harrison call it? "A tidal wave of bullshit."


Dude, well said, now I don't have to write anything else about this as you summed it up very well.

Thank you
User avatar
Karmamatterz
 
Posts: 676
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:58 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Karmamatterz » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:41 pm

I am happy to look at this site as a family, its exactly what I've striven(word?) for as I wander through. Having a family of my own, there comes a time when a member needs a time out, or to be sent to his room, or we find a quiet place to talk, i think that was attempted by the mods unsuccessfully. Whats so bad about a week off? When my kids mis behave they lose privileges, it works. When someone is actually traumatized , as you suggested, that can be the worse time to stay in the trauma and question the motives of others as FB was doing. I have no bad feelings toward FB, I find most of his work here incredibly interesting considering his background as he has written. And I dont think any less of him for having been banned for a week.
We are off topic but if you want to start a new thread in re: this issue I will be happy to contribute.


Awesome, two posts on the same page that are well put. In total agreement with Burnt Hill. FB needed a break, sometimes you have to step away from it all and let it go. Too much time on the computer is generally not healthy, especially with all the frackkin media frenzy.
User avatar
Karmamatterz
 
Posts: 676
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:58 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Canadian_watcher » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:51 pm

c2w has repeatedly asked to know who the people were in the video of those who were forcibly thrown out of their own house in Boston during the martia... I mean completely normal poilce action there. I've happened across something tonight that might be someone from that house writing out his story. (totally and completely not sure though):

http://direct.bigbudsmag.com/grow/article/boston-marathon-bombing-terrorism-police-bust-homes-marijuana-growers
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
User avatar
Canadian_watcher
 
Posts: 3706
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:30 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Canadian_watcher » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:03 am

and one last thing for tonight,something from reddit on how these temporary "exigent (nice talking point, it's getting around) circumstances" are not so temporary.

I've been taking the train daily for 1 year and this is what they used to do:
1 cop standing around during boarding
1 K9 unit going up and down the line
Ticket check to make sure you are boarding the right train, no ID check
ID check is part of contract of carriage, they just elected to not bother with it.
Immediately after the bombing, they set up portable tables with portable machines, wipe everyone's bags (with the same damn wipe mind you) before boarding the train and the police, not the amtrak employee, checks ID & ticket.
I challenged them last week (before the lockdown) and got publicly scolded for it and told 'you don't need to take the train, you can always take the bus'
Now, long after the threat is gone (dead or captured) and preliminary reports show that they acted alone and where more like columbine/DC sniper than terrorism, the police are still conducting these bag checks at south station.
This is frustrating because I view it as an usurpation of power that they don't want to let go, intimidation of the public by force, etc etc
Here is where everything starts to fall apart. All trains go
South Station -> 3 min ride
-> Back Bay station -> 5 min ride
-> Route 128 station -> 20 min ride
-> Providence
AFAIK, this may or may not be happening at Back Bay, probably is because it is close to ground zero of the bombings, but it 100% isn't happening at either Route 128 or Providence.
So what is this being done for? To 'protect' me from a 3 minute ride to Back bay? Or an 8 min ride to Route 128? And then, screw it, I'm on my own?
So if someone wanted to target NYC, just hop on later on the route huh. Plus, the train tracks run under a lot of pedestrian bridges. You want to bomb a train, you don't need to board the train.
Obviously I can't say any of this without looking suspicious, but that also frustrates me because a law abiding citizen can't speak up and protest to the state without
1) Looking suspicious
2) Risk being singled out for 'extra' security
3) Risk losing time or being charged with obstruction of justice or what not.
Unlike the TSA, there are no rules of engagement for these people, AFAIK it isn't part of contract of carriage, and I also don't know if this is for Amtrak trains only or if it pertains to MBTA trains too
All I know is that by the time I get back around 5 pm, there are no cops & no bag checks, during peak hours.
So, why the hell are they doing this at 6 am when travel is super light vs rush hour?
How and to whom do I protest this?
Sorry for the wall of text
TL;dr need advice on how to protest police continuing to wipe bags at boston trian station


I mean really.
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
User avatar
Canadian_watcher
 
Posts: 3706
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:30 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby compared2what? » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:14 am

Canadian_watcher wrote:
compared2what? wrote:
.
Oh and police/militarized cops/etc acted accordingly. This wasnt even close to martial law.


Show me that they didn't and/or that it was and I'll change my mind. .


so is this just semantics for you, then? As in, Vietnam was not a war because war was never declared, type of thing?

Could you maybe explain what martial law might look like? See, I've had family live through a declared and activated period of marital law (YES! IT's TRUE!) so I *do* know what it looks like - it isn't just a fucking imagined fantasy of it. Let's see if you're close. Go on.


I understand that it's a frightening sight. And that it's more frightening if it's also a trigger. But you know what would be even more frightening than that? Encouraging frightened people to believe their fears that they were living without rights under a military dictatorship when that wasn't happening.

I would never mock, scorn, diminish or belittle the fear, though. That's real. It deserves respect. I'm not about crushing it. Or about denial. It's important.

But it coexists with another context (political), which is also important. And in that one, the difference between "looks like martial law" and "martial law" is not just fucking semantics. They're both objectionable. But only one of them defines who you are and what you can do about it or anything else.

II don't know. There's not as much of a difference between feeling powerless and being powerless as one might hope. I can't argue with that. So I'm not. What I'm arguing with is that propagandizing people to believe there's no difference at all empowers them. That's not how it works, per the lessons of history. .

Not meaning you, but I have to say that history isn't too full of cheer wrt what it means when people get to be so identified by their attachment to that kind of narrative that they regard anyone who says something that gets between them and their belief in it as an enemy. And....I guess we're not quite at the hints stage on that one yet. But I wouldn't want to get there. Because that's, like, powerlessness squared.

Anyway. There's a difference worth observing. And that's not to say "USA! USA!" It's to say that there's a difference worth observing.
“If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and 50 dollars in cash I don’t care if a Drone kills him or a policeman kills him.” -- Rand Paul
User avatar
compared2what?
 
Posts: 8383
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:31 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Iamwhomiam » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:15 am

C_w, someone should tell that guy growing weed anywhere in the US is a felony. A few, in fact.
So we have one complaint. Perhaps a wiser person might do what others do, buy their weed.

Regarding your last, Homeland Security has the right to patrol all public transportation anywhere within a one hundred miles of our borders.

Securing the homeland. Uh huh. Familiarizing us with the future.
User avatar
Iamwhomiam
 
Posts: 6043
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:47 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby 8bitagent » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:15 am

Forget the Islamic jihadist angle....forget the disgruntled at life angle...

ITS CUZ THEY WERE ON WELFARE!

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/24/ta ... lved-into/
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12112
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Burnt Hill » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:19 am

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/04/24/pers-a24.html
There are many possible explanations for how someone placed under an FBI investigation as a suspected Islamist militant could carry out a bombing in the heart of a US city, killing three people and wounding over 170 more. The one that is least plausible, and can be rejected as a lie and cover-up, is the FBI’s claim that the suspect simply fell under its radar.

After the bombings, the FBI’s release of the photographs of the Tsarnaev brothers, appealing to the public for “tips,” amounted to a calculated cover-up. The FBI is not the Keystone Cops. If they didn’t have prior knowledge of the Tsarnaevs’ plans, they knew precisely who these individuals were the moment they saw them on the videos.
User avatar
Burnt Hill
 
Posts: 2584
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:42 pm
Location: down down
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby compared2what? » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:21 am

Canadian_watcher wrote:c2w has repeatedly asked to know who the people were in the video of those who were forcibly thrown out of their own house in Boston during the martia... I mean completely normal poilce action there. I've happened across something tonight that might be someone from that house writing out his story. (totally and completely not sure though):


So now I'm wrong to care who they are? Because I've never said I was insisting they not be innocently hauled off by vicious cops. It's the anonymous posting and vague characterizations I don't trust.

Be fair.

Also, thanks for the link.



Drug bust? Get out. But I bet you're right.

If so, your intuition's been on fire with that video.

...

You live there, don't you?
“If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and 50 dollars in cash I don’t care if a Drone kills him or a policeman kills him.” -- Rand Paul
User avatar
compared2what?
 
Posts: 8383
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:31 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Iamwhomiam » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:22 am

Sorry, I don't do fox, 8bit. But it was announced that they received government assistance, which could be limited to food stamps or WIC (Woman Infant Child nutritional assistance) In the many broadcasts I listened to, Welfare was not mentioned. This one's squarely on Fox, sensationalizing for otherwise uninformed extremists, as usual.
User avatar
Iamwhomiam
 
Posts: 6043
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:47 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Karmamatterz » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:25 am

Simulist wrote:

Hi Canadian_watcher. I know we disagree on this, but any two thinking people are going to disagree sometimes.

I think you're right that there are (at least) two issues here, but I don't think they are separate issues in the minds of some who appear to be suggesting that the bombings were staged in order to suspend civil liberties a little further; one such suggestion was made at a news conference last week, if I recall correctly. My remarks were written with those voices in mind. But I agree with you that in general, and at least in my mind too, these are separate issues.

And I would be uncomfortable — in the extreme — with a show of police force as happened last week in Boston, were this a normal state of affairs in America. But it isn't; this was an extraordinary show of force against what is arguably the greatest act of terrorism on American soil since 9/11.

What continues to concern me are matters like the Patriot Act, indefinite detention, the Military Commissions Act, the continuation of Guantanamo, extraordinary renditions, drone strikes, warrantless wiretapping, and the abuse by police against citizens occurring throughout the United States with increasing regularity and as a matter of course. In view of all this, some people are understandably concerned with the overwhelming police response last week in Boston. I am not yet one of them — but if this kind of theater on American streets becomes a sort of slippery slope, I'm likely to become one of them pretty fast.

[Not particularly well-written on my part, because I have somewhere to be soon, and I've got to get going.]


Hmmmm.....wouldn't drones have really helped in capturing the ALLEDGED suspect(s) faster? Wouldn't drones make us all safer?

Wouldn't more cameras help keep on eye on all of us better? I mean Jesus frackking hell and back, get those brainy fuckers at DARPA working on some Minority Report gollywood technology to predict this shit will happen before it does and just take the muthas out like they be a camel rider in da Middle East! Right now bitch!

Just git'er done! Fuck the Bill of Rights and living in peaceful communities where we thrive on education, healthy living and cooperative spirit. Shits all overrated. I want more paramilitary cool shit, more movies about it and some more awesome episodes on the Military Channel about cool ways to spy U.S. citizens, and neato ways to torture.

You're saying this was the greatest act of terrorism committed on U.S. soil since 911, well it all fits nicely with the Patriotless Act and unwarranted phone taps, snooping on emails and web searches, getting my groin groped at the airport etc.... This well orchestrsted show of force seems to go hand in hand with your comment about this act of terrorism.

Does anybody actually think that Homeland Insecurity doling out of billions of $$$$$$$$ to local police departments, cities and counties was just for kick starting higher employment? The photo of the dudes in their armored vehicle on their way to work with the cute Bruins sticker didn't happen by accident. The new norm? Sheesh,, this shit has been in the works and continually deployed into the warehouses and training drills for years. All that heavy equipment and those handsome paramilitary uniforms didn't just appear with the magic terrorist unicorn. Shit's been in serious buildup since 911, or before. It's not the new norm, it's been their training norm, they were just waiting to bust it out.

Drone manufacturers have got to have the biggest hard-ons right now drooling over the prospect of private presentations to the Boston PD. But nah, that's not fascist at all, that is too harsh. Fascism isn't something all of us are ready to embrace (yet, but you will be after a few more nudges), or are scared shitless to admit it's shadow is present and unfortunately grows with every incident like this. Drone sales, infrared cameras, armored vehicles, snooping technology are just good ol' capitalism. Embrace it, then go to Disney! Malls are open too, move right along and just all forget this and go shopping, drink beer, watch a hockey game or play XBox.

I spoke too early after quoting The Consul, guess I had sumpin' to say after all. It's sarcastic and pendantic as hell, but that has a charming fit on this board lately.
User avatar
Karmamatterz
 
Posts: 676
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:58 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Burnt Hill » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:29 am

Iamwhomiam wrote:C_w, someone should tell that guy growing weed anywhere in the US is a felony. A few, in fact.
.

While I suppose federal law hasnt changed, growing mj is legal in many states, right? or am I missing something here?
And the feds have only prosecuted extremely selectively- like Tommy Chong. minor point I suppose, but I think things are changing. Our Local DA and LE have said they will no longer prosecute, or even arrest minor marijuana possession and growing.
http://www.cnycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=834223
Ithaca’s mayor supports legalizing marijuana, encourages police to focus on other issues
"The larger lesson here is that the drug war has failed and continues to bring hardships on average Americans — including those who are severely ill," writes Myrick. "Every year, millions of dollars are spent on law enforcement and thousands of young people — disproportionately young people of color — have their futures destroyed for possession of small amounts of cannabis."
Last edited by Burnt Hill on Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Burnt Hill
 
Posts: 2584
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:42 pm
Location: down down
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 8 guests