Nordic » Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:26 am wrote: IanEye » Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:13 am wrote:
An individual can not believe the official story of the events in Dallas, Texas on November 2nd 1963, while at the same time refrain from condemning every citizen of Dallas, Texas.
An individual can not believe the official story of the events in New York City, NY on September 11th 2001, while at the same time refrain from condemning every citizen of New York City, NY.
An individual can not believe the official story of the events in Boston, MA on April 15th 2013, while at the same time refrain from condemning every citizen of Boston, MA.
This thread is full of individual instances of board members using a tragedy for no other purpose than to show us their moral and intellectual superiority.
Because it is obviously possible to state one's disagreements with official accounts without denigrating an entire population.
Denigrating an entire population in no way serves an intellectual argument that the Tsarnaev's are not the only culprits in the Boston Marathon bombing.
That is not what the derision and scorn is there for, the derision and scorn is there because the individual making the argument has no interest in justice.
They are arguing to show us that they are better than us, they are smarter than us, they are morally superior to us.
They are not arguing on behalf of the Tsarnaev's, they are arguing on behalf of themselves.
There are any number of threads where this same supposed superior behavior exists.
I don't bother with those threads.
I do not live in Texas.
I do not live in the Five Boroughs.
I live in the greater Boston area.
Anyone who comes here and stands on top of the dead bodies in Boston in order to heap scorn on them and trumpet their own superiority can count on me calling them out for what they are.
Anyone who comes here and points at the disfigured citizens of Boston in order to call them crisis actors and trumpet their own superiority can count on me calling them out for what they are.
Individuals who mock the people of Boston, and what they have been through are not worthy of respect.
They will not be treated with respect.
They will be treated like an individual who is standing at the grave of their own child because of their own negligent actions.
They will be treated like someone who has fucked up and cannot in any way rectify their fuck up.
They will be treated like someone who has put their own ego in front of justice.
I don't think that anyone here is saying that because the official story seems suspicious and the surviving suspect was likely railroaded, and his "defense" attorney throwing him under the bus on day one, and that the whole thing seems very fishy MEANS and = "crisis actors" and "fake bombs" and all that other stupid shit that someone has decided to manufacture (clearly) as disinfo in order to discredit people who have doubts about the official story.
I'm not seeing that here. Maybe I missed something. But
I don't see Mac talking about fake sawdust bombs and crisis actors and fake blood.
The story and the actions of "law enforcement" (for whom we should all have zero respect at this point) seem like there is far more to this story than meets the eye.
You didn't miss anything, Nordic. In fact, I went out of my way to dissociate myself from that stuff explicitly, in a post just a couple pages back that IanEye himself undoubtedly saw and read:
MacCruiskeen » Fri May 22, 2015 9:46 am wrote:
Sounder, you link to Dave McGowan's Boston articles. Well, I am sorry to hear that the man is dying, but I also want to say that his Boston series was, how shall I put it, not his finest hour. That's really all I want to say about that (and I only mention it at all so that no one here misinterprets my documentation of FBI entrapment and fakery -- all of it demonstrable and much of it even admitted by the Feds themselves -- as support for that "no bombs" stuff).
Ian is suffering a meltdown, making stuff up, conflating unrelated issues, ignoring anything he can't cope with, appropriating the grief of other people to support an "argument" even he must know is -- how can I put this politely? -- invalid
, as any five-year-old child can see:
This is in fact his argument.
MacCruiskeen » Thu May 21, 2015 12:01 pm wrote:
Also, I now understand your previous post (although I do wish you would be less cryptic and more upfront about these things, seriously). You argument is: People are grieving for dead family members, therefore
Dzokhar Tsarnaev dunnit, and it's in very bad taste for me even to doubt that FACT for a moment. Right?
Not that Ian will acknowledge it out loud, of course. (Of course he never replied). Because actually replying to any point I actually make would expose the sheer poverty of his "argument". QED. He'll just post yet more
photos of grieving relatives. QED. He'll just give us an update on who else (apart, of course, from the Tsarnaevs) counts as a "shitbag" in his books and who doesn't, as if it mattered. QE effing D.
All sense, all logic, cast to the winds -- and the most elementary notions of justice simply discarded, stubbornly and repeatedly. Even his grammar is disintegrating ("refrain", in the first four lines?) He descends to calling me a "shitbag" and threatening me with the same fate as the speechless "shitbag" who's now back in "Supermax" solitary awaiting execution (while RI's resident Authority goes out of his way to back Ian up by calling me "a snarling asshole"). Meanwhile, Jerky starts a thread sarcastically entitled " "Good Guy" Putin "outs" murdered Nemtsov as Jewish"
, as if anyone here had ever suggested that Vladimir Putin is a Good Guy. (That the very terminology is literally infantile is no accident.The corporate media have spent over a decade training the populace to believe that this is how adults think and talk.) And meanwhile, not to be outdone, Fourth Base finally shows what he meant when he told us he had moved "beyond left and right": He uses this thread, not to discuss the actual points at issue -- Did the cops catch the actual culprits? Were the Tsarnaevs FBI pawns? Did Dzokhar Tsarnaev have a fair trial? Should he now rot for decades in solitary, or should he fry soon (which would be the fairer
solution?) -- but 1) to remind us that there are Bad Guys everywhere, not just in America (thus adding to our store of knowledge), and 2) to warn us that, in criticising and condemning US/UK imperialism, we run the risk of ignoring the possible
rise of an Islamist Caliphate-Empire.
All this is very instructive, and I'm not kidding. I submit that this kind of carnival would not have been possible 10 years ago on any discussion board worthy of the name -- especially on one that is explicitly anti-fascist. I don't mean it would have been banned; I mean it would have been treated with the contempt it deserves; it would have been laughed to scorn. Nowadays, it's laughing it to scorn
that counts as bad behaviour. Pointing out the holes in people's arguments is just, like, totally totally mean
. Requesting that they post evidence in support of their claims just shows that you are a bully
. Posting plentiful evidence in support of your own arguments just proves you're a smartass
. Asking whether the grief of the families proves the guilt of the accused merely demonstrates that you are a nasty, nasty person who has no respect for the grieving families
. Et cetera.
So what's going on?
I believe (and I am certainly not the first person to suggest this, or to notice it happening), that nowadays, in Year 15 of the GWOT, something very bad is happening to people at a pretty fundamental level; that it is affecting their actual ability to think, and even their ability to see what is and is not there ("Dzokhar Drops The Bag"). I don't know the exact reason for this, but I suspect it's a combination of things: the unremitting GWOT scam and the real terror it produces, plus increasing personal economic insecurity since the "economic crisis" (the unpunished grand larceny) of 2008, plus an increasing subliminal awareness that capitalism is almost literally eating the planet, plus exposure to an ever-more-deranged 24-hour barrage of sheer crap from cable TV and the other corporate media, plus the damaging (attention-sapping, attention-shredding) effects of "social" media from Twitter to Facebook to video games, especially since the web became mobile.
- I now want to post some more things bearing directly on the Tsarnaev Affair, i.e. some more actual evidence (because I'm an optimist a masochist
a Blue Meanie that way). But I had to get that out of the way first.