Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

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Re: Richard Jewell, though art avenged.

Postby Nordic » Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:59 am

IanEye » Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:28 pm wrote:
Nordic » Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:45 pm wrote:It's really difficult to think of an example of successful terrorism anywhere, that WASN'T backed by some global empire of some sort.

As opposed to random groups of nutjobs who might do some really stupid and violent crap but don't really constitute a threat to any particular country or place or group.

Can you think of one? From history?


Quantify this individual from your above thesis:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Rudolph

.


Yes, I thought of him as I was writing that. He's an example of a random nut job who did hurt some people but had no affect on anything else, the state apparatus, society as a whole, nothing along the lines of what state-sponsored terrorism accomplishes. He didn't even start a war. In that regard I would have to say he was not a "successful" terrorist.

We'll always have the occasional Eric Rudolph, even in the best of all situations.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby FourthBase » Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:37 am

It's really difficult to think of an example of successful terrorism anywhere, that WASN'T backed by some global empire of some sort.


Dude. That's the goal of Islamism, every variety of it. To become a global empire. Like, you know, the Ottoman Empire was. All empires start somewhere humble. Once you're a global empire, you get to redefine your terroristic growing pains as a glorious underdog revolution. The whole point of my questions above is to ponder whether what we are seeing could be the fetal stage of a future empire. Did folks here get so accustomed to equating imperialism with capitalism and Europeans that you forgot that other flavors of imperialism can exist? Follow the money? Like, uh, oil money? Insanely-rich plutocrats who yearn for a global theocracy? (Which, might I add, if it ever were achieved, would probably be a more fucked-up, oppressive, aggressive totalitarian hell than the one this board despises with all its soul today, maybe the worst of all time, at least until the evil robot overlords take over.)
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Sounder » Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:47 am

It's really difficult to think of an example of successful terrorism anywhere, that WASN'T backed by some global empire of some sort.




Dude. That's the goal of Islamism, every variety of it. To become a global empire. Like, you know, the Ottoman Empire was. All empires start somewhere humble. Once you're a global empire, you get to redefine your terroristic growing pains as a glorious underdog revolution. The whole point of my questions above is to ponder whether what we are seeing could be the fetal stage of a future empire. Did folks here get so accustomed to equating imperialism with capitalism and Europeans that you forgot that other flavors of imperialism can exist? Follow the money? Like, uh, oil money? Insanely-rich plutocrats who yearn for a global theocracy? (Which, might I add, if it ever were achieved, would probably be a more fucked-up, oppressive, aggressive totalitarian hell than the one this board despises with all its soul today, maybe the worst of all time, at least until the evil robot overlords take over.)



Yeah, we got a responsibility to protect, right? 'Those' people are crazy, and we got get them before they get us. Preemptive strikes are a necessary tactical tool.



There was a guy in the comment section of main 'evidence' vid on this thread who called himself 'storm chaser'. He would go on and on about murderous Muslims, screaming about motive. Of course they did it, doncha know, because Muslims are a murderous lot.

Methinks the fellow is feeling unconsciously guilty for his association with the western killing machine, and must transfer the guilt toward the target group
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Nordic » Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:16 am

FourthBase » Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:37 am wrote:
It's really difficult to think of an example of successful terrorism anywhere, that WASN'T backed by some global empire of some sort.


Dude. That's the goal of Islamism, every variety of it. To become a global empire. Like, you know, the Ottoman Empire was. All empires start somewhere humble. Once you're a global empire, you get to redefine your terroristic growing pains as a glorious underdog revolution. The whole point of my questions above is to ponder whether what we are seeing could be the fetal stage of a future empire. Did folks here get so accustomed to equating imperialism with capitalism and Europeans that you forgot that other flavors of imperialism can exist? Follow the money? Like, uh, oil money? Insanely-rich plutocrats who yearn for a global theocracy? (Which, might I add, if it ever were achieved, would probably be a more fucked-up, oppressive, aggressive totalitarian hell than the one this board despises with all its soul today, maybe the worst of all time, at least until the evil robot overlords take over.)



I don't think I've ever seen the word "Islamism" used before. But the way you're using it is pretty unsavory. Racist much?

I probably shouldn't even engage with you on this but how and why do you think an Islamic Capitalist\theocratic empire would be any worse than the "Christian" one we've seen for the last five hundred years or so, you know, King Lepold on the Belgian Congo brutally killing millions, Columbus in the New World sadistically mutilating and slaughtering the gentle harmless locals, the slavery of not only the Africans but the locals in central and South America .... I mean it would be hard to top all of these things, even for those DIRTY STINKING SAVAGE MUSLIMS, right?
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Re: .

Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:54 am

Nordic » Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:26 am wrote:
IanEye » Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:13 am wrote:An individual can not believe the official story of the events in Dallas, Texas on November 2nd 1963, while at the same time refrain from condemning every citizen of Dallas, Texas.

An individual can not believe the official story of the events in New York City, NY on September 11th 2001, while at the same time refrain from condemning every citizen of New York City, NY.

An individual can not believe the official story of the events in Boston, MA on April 15th 2013, while at the same time refrain from condemning every citizen of Boston, MA.

This thread is full of individual instances of board members using a tragedy for no other purpose than to show us their moral and intellectual superiority.

Because it is obviously possible to state one's disagreements with official accounts without denigrating an entire population.

Denigrating an entire population in no way serves an intellectual argument that the Tsarnaev's are not the only culprits in the Boston Marathon bombing.
That is not what the derision and scorn is there for, the derision and scorn is there because the individual making the argument has no interest in justice.

They are arguing to show us that they are better than us, they are smarter than us, they are morally superior to us.
They are not arguing on behalf of the Tsarnaev's, they are arguing on behalf of themselves.

There are any number of threads where this same supposed superior behavior exists.
I don't bother with those threads.
I do not live in Texas.
I do not live in the Five Boroughs.
I live in the greater Boston area.

Anyone who comes here and stands on top of the dead bodies in Boston in order to heap scorn on them and trumpet their own superiority can count on me calling them out for what they are.

Anyone who comes here and points at the disfigured citizens of Boston in order to call them crisis actors and trumpet their own superiority can count on me calling them out for what they are.

Individuals who mock the people of Boston, and what they have been through are not worthy of respect.
They will not be treated with respect.

They will be treated like an individual who is standing at the grave of their own child because of their own negligent actions.

They will be treated like someone who has fucked up and cannot in any way rectify their fuck up.

They will be treated like someone who has put their own ego in front of justice.



I don't think that anyone here is saying that because the official story seems suspicious and the surviving suspect was likely railroaded, and his "defense" attorney throwing him under the bus on day one, and that the whole thing seems very fishy MEANS and = "crisis actors" and "fake bombs" and all that other stupid shit that someone has decided to manufacture (clearly) as disinfo in order to discredit people who have doubts about the official story.

I'm not seeing that here. Maybe I missed something. But I don't see Mac talking about fake sawdust bombs and crisis actors and fake blood.

The story and the actions of "law enforcement" (for whom we should all have zero respect at this point) seem like there is far more to this story than meets the eye.


You didn't miss anything, Nordic. In fact, I went out of my way to dissociate myself from that stuff explicitly, in a post just a couple pages back that IanEye himself undoubtedly saw and read:

MacCruiskeen » Fri May 22, 2015 9:46 am wrote:Sounder, you link to Dave McGowan's Boston articles. Well, I am sorry to hear that the man is dying, but I also want to say that his Boston series was, how shall I put it, not his finest hour. That's really all I want to say about that (and I only mention it at all so that no one here misinterprets my documentation of FBI entrapment and fakery -- all of it demonstrable and much of it even admitted by the Feds themselves -- as support for that "no bombs" stuff).

Onwards.


Ian is suffering a meltdown, making stuff up, conflating unrelated issues, ignoring anything he can't cope with, appropriating the grief of other people to support an "argument" even he must know is -- how can I put this politely? -- invalid, as any five-year-old child can see:

MacCruiskeen » Thu May 21, 2015 12:01 pm wrote:
Also, I now understand your previous post (although I do wish you would be less cryptic and more upfront about these things, seriously). You argument is: People are grieving for dead family members, therefore Dzokhar Tsarnaev dunnit, and it's in very bad taste for me even to doubt that FACT for a moment. Right?


This is in fact his argument. Not that Ian will acknowledge it out loud, of course. (Of course he never replied). Because actually replying to any point I actually make would expose the sheer poverty of his "argument". QED. He'll just post yet more photos of grieving relatives. QED. He'll just give us an update on who else (apart, of course, from the Tsarnaevs) counts as a "shitbag" in his books and who doesn't, as if it mattered. QE effing D.

All sense, all logic, cast to the winds -- and the most elementary notions of justice simply discarded, stubbornly and repeatedly. Even his grammar is disintegrating ("refrain", in the first four lines?) He descends to calling me a "shitbag" and threatening me with the same fate as the speechless "shitbag" who's now back in "Supermax" solitary awaiting execution (while RI's resident Authority goes out of his way to back Ian up by calling me "a snarling asshole"). Meanwhile, Jerky starts a thread sarcastically entitled " "Good Guy" Putin "outs" murdered Nemtsov as Jewish", as if anyone here had ever suggested that Vladimir Putin is a Good Guy. (That the very terminology is literally infantile is no accident.The corporate media have spent over a decade training the populace to believe that this is how adults think and talk.) And meanwhile, not to be outdone, Fourth Base finally shows what he meant when he told us he had moved "beyond left and right": He uses this thread, not to discuss the actual points at issue -- Did the cops catch the actual culprits? Were the Tsarnaevs FBI pawns? Did Dzokhar Tsarnaev have a fair trial? Should he now rot for decades in solitary, or should he fry soon (which would be the fairer solution?) -- but 1) to remind us that there are Bad Guys everywhere, not just in America (thus adding to our store of knowledge), and 2) to warn us that, in criticising and condemning US/UK imperialism, we run the risk of ignoring the possible rise of an Islamist Caliphate-Empire.

All this is very instructive, and I'm not kidding. I submit that this kind of carnival would not have been possible 10 years ago on any discussion board worthy of the name -- especially on one that is explicitly anti-fascist. I don't mean it would have been banned; I mean it would have been treated with the contempt it deserves; it would have been laughed to scorn. Nowadays, it's laughing it to scorn that counts as bad behaviour. Pointing out the holes in people's arguments is just, like, totally totally mean. Requesting that they post evidence in support of their claims just shows that you are a bully. Posting plentiful evidence in support of your own arguments just proves you're a smartass. Asking whether the grief of the families proves the guilt of the accused merely demonstrates that you are a nasty, nasty person who has no respect for the grieving families. Et cetera.

So what's going on?

I believe (and I am certainly not the first person to suggest this, or to notice it happening), that nowadays, in Year 15 of the GWOT, something very bad is happening to people at a pretty fundamental level; that it is affecting their actual ability to think, and even their ability to see what is and is not there ("Dzokhar Drops The Bag"). I don't know the exact reason for this, but I suspect it's a combination of things: the unremitting GWOT scam and the real terror it produces, plus increasing personal economic insecurity since the "economic crisis" (the unpunished grand larceny) of 2008, plus an increasing subliminal awareness that capitalism is almost literally eating the planet, plus exposure to an ever-more-deranged 24-hour barrage of sheer crap from cable TV and the other corporate media, plus the damaging (attention-sapping, attention-shredding) effects of "social" media from Twitter to Facebook to video games, especially since the web became mobile.

- I now want to post some more things bearing directly on the Tsarnaev Affair, i.e. some more actual evidence (because I'm an optimist a masochist a Blue Meanie that way). But I had to get that out of the way first.
Last edited by MacCruiskeen on Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby divideandconquer » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:17 am

It's really difficult to think of an example of successful terrorism anywhere, that WASN'T backed by some global empire of some sort.


In my humble opinion, lone nut jobs can't pull off the scale and degree of murder and mayhem that attracts national mainstream media attention especially now with the ever-growing security and surveillance industrial complex.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby 82_28 » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:19 am

All of the above is why I suggested firepitting the fuck out of this thing. We all know what happened. There are a lot of questions. Some bravado. Yet there is nothing to hate one another over. We would all help our fellows up off the floor regardless of opinion.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby coffin_dodger » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:22 am

82_28 wrote:All of the above is why I suggested firepitting the fuck out of this thing. We all know what happened. There are a lot of questions. Some bravado. Yet there is nothing to hate one another over. We would all help our fellows up off the floor regardless of opinion.


Wonderful sentiment 82, if it were not for the fact that whilst we are all loving-it-up, we're being royally fucked by people with no one to answer to but themselves.
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So me say that Walter Radni was a victim of hate

Postby IanEye » Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:10 am

MacCruiskeen » Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:27 pm wrote:
IanEye wrote: for about ten pages now


The last ten pages speak for themselves


I didn't actually say that, the moderator said that.

But on this we agree. the last 10 pages speak for themselves.

I am comfortable with where I stand.
I feel better for having shared my thoughts and feelings regarding this matter.

Readers can decide for themselves how they choose to process the unfolding details of this matter.

I would suggest that the most powerful allies one could have in the pursuit of justice would be those who were most immediately effected in the wake of this tragedy.

There are many paths to justice, if one wants to convince those present at the Boston Marathon in 2013 that they should follow a certain path, I would suggest that calling those people "fascists" is not a convincing or compelling approach.

Russ Baker is but one example of an individual who does not take that approach.



The Richard family is another example of how not to take that approach.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Searcher08 » Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:11 am

It's really difficult to think of an example of successful terrorism anywhere, that WASN'T backed by some global empire of some sort.

The Global Empires may get involved at a certain point, but that doesnt mean they instigated it. Many of the liberation movements in Africa, such as in Cape Verde and Guinea-Bissau were very 'homegrown' affairs. Eventually the western powers got involved as arms suppliers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinea-Bissau_War_of_Independence

Dude. That's the goal of Islamism, every variety of it.

A counter-example to this is Sufism, who were generally the first people to be shot when the Taliban arrived. Rumi was a Sufi.


To become a global empire. Like, you know, the Ottoman Empire was. All empires start somewhere humble.


All Empires start from a single human who dreams Big Bold Psychopathic Dreams of Empire.

Once you're a global empire, you get to redefine your terroristic growing pains as a glorious underdog revolution. The whole point of my questions above is to ponder whether what we are seeing could be the fetal stage of a future empire.

Did folks here get so accustomed to equating imperialism with capitalism and Europeans that you forgot that other flavors of imperialism can exist?


Excellent point.
There is a great deal of Western European conceptual filtration that happens.
I find it particularly applies to Western Buddhists who seem to get very amnesic when it comes to outing virtual exterminations by Buddhists in Sri Lanka, Burma and Thailand
I think the answer lies on a deeper level, that of sociopathy / psychopathy. These psychopaths will seek to associate to their own advantage and will use whatever 'tools' and 'resources' are available. If these happen to include religions, fine. If they happen to include scientific materialism, fine.

I dont go for the 'global' empire ( I think there would be a very long period of consolidation before that would be attempted), but perhaps a Ottoman-Saudi Caliphate 2.0 from Casablanca to the Causcasus, as I think ponerology indicates that psychopaths can come to "wink and a nod" co-existence with others of their kind.

Follow the money? Like, uh, oil money? Insanely-rich plutocrats who yearn for a global theocracy? (Which, might I add, if it ever were achieved, would probably be a more fucked-up, oppressive, aggressive totalitarian hell than the one this board despises with all its soul today, maybe the worst of all time, at least until the evil robot overlords take over.)


Insane rich sociopaths who seek an optimal (for them, in terms of their tools and resources) vehicle to expand their control and power.
Perhaps it would look like a cross between 1980 Chile under Pinochet, and Saudi Arabia 2015 and Gilliam's Brazil. It would replace the personality cults of 'strongmen' with Obama-style "brand cults", with enormous resistance under the surface, extreme random violence. A bit like "ISIS"-controlled Mosul today
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:19 am

Ian Eye wrote:There are many paths to justice, if one wants to convince those present at the Boston Marathon in 2013 that they should follow a certain path, I would suggest that calling those people "fascists" is not a convincing or compelling approach.


Jesus wept. You really know no shame, Ian. Of course I never called them fascists, as any adult capable of reading can immediately and easily confirm. And your pretending that I did call them fascists just confirms everything I have said about your meltdown.

Get well soon.
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a bound bundle of wooden rods

Postby IanEye » Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:42 am

You do not get to define my identity.
You do not get to categorize how I associate myself with Massachusetts.
You do not get to minimize my feelings about a city I frequent being the target of terrorism.
You do not get to label my feelings as inherently fascist.
You do not get to tell me or anyone else whether or not we can participate on this thread.

MacCruiskeen » Mon May 18, 2015 7:25 am wrote:Boston strong feeble, and therefore vicious.


MacCruiskeen » Wed May 20, 2015 7:05 am wrote:It's fascism, Sounder. Fascism wearing a liberal mask, but still wrapped in the flag. And baying for blood.



MacCruiskeen » Tue May 26, 2015 6:38 am wrote:
The less charitable and more accurate term for both of those postings is "fascist", of course. Fascist and proud of it. The brutality and the sanctimoniousness both come as part of the package, along with the little and big lies.


Case closed.

Image

Bay State Strong. Boston Big and Tough.



MacCruiskeen » Wed May 27, 2015 5:56 am wrote:
If you object to being called a fascist, then stop saying fascist things and stop defending fascist show-trials. ("Fascist" is not just some random insult like "poopy-pants", you know, although you appear to believe that it is.)

If you have nothing better or more honest or more rational to offer, stay out of the thread. It is a waste of time talking to you.




MacCruiskeen » Fri May 29, 2015 5:09 am wrote:NO. Why put it in the Firepit (aka Memory Hole)? Shine a light on it. It reveals the true state of this board in May 2015.

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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:44 am

You are deranged.
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mental wounds, not healing

Postby IanEye » Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:00 am

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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Searcher08 » Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:13 am

Can Mac and Ian (both of whom I admire like and respect) take it to PM, and stop calling people fascists (RI has been there done that one), being Victor Meldrew, being impenetrably obscure, being incomprehensible, being twattish

I think there are lots of great posts from both of you on the thread, but it is kind of turning into a shit-flinging festival, when it is a subject that surely deserves both forensically accurate and deeply emotionally intelligent responses?
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