Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

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Postby IanEye » Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:16 am

fair enough, I am off to research Victor Meldrew.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:22 am

Ian, I now understand why you're taking such pains to deface this thread repeatedly with your bizarre antics, including and especially your senseless cut'n'paste antics (which take up gigantic amounts of space): You're hoping to make this thread unreadable and thus persuade a mod to firepit it. You're also hoping to provoke me into insulting you, for the same reason. There is method to your madness. First firepit the patsies physically, then firepit any serious discussion of the patsies' guilt or innocence.

Well, maybe you'll succeed. RI, like the USA, is not what it was ten years ago. Meanwhile I'm going to ignore your antics and cease trying to argue rationally with you, and will instead (if humanly possible) resume posting relevant material written by investigative journalists and other rational adults.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

^Line drawn.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:28 am

MacCruiskeen » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:19 am wrote:Of course I never called them fascists, as any adult capable of reading can immediately and easily confirm. And your pretending that I did call them fascists just confirms everything I have said about your meltdown.

Get well soon.


Disappointing.

As an adult capable of reading, I have been confirming Ian's version for quite some time.

Indeed, dude was kind enough to follow up on your amateur psychiatric diagnosis (smarmy) with documentation helpfully indicating exactly that.

Please don't double down on this bullshit.

I'm not going to ask you to apologize, because you're not sorry, but I am asking you to stop.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:30 am

The Boston Bombing Investigation: the complete series by Russ Baker and his small team of investigative reporters at WhoWhatWhy:

http://whowhatwhy.org/category/boston-b ... democracy/

To anyone seriously interested in this case, I cannot recommend their work enough. I defy anyone to read it through in full and not conclude that the Tsarnaev Affair is one of the most obvious set-ups in FBI history (and god knows that's saying something).
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:33 am

Wombaticus Rex » Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:28 am wrote:
MacCruiskeen » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:19 am wrote:Of course I never called them fascists, as any adult capable of reading can immediately and easily confirm. And your pretending that I did call them fascists just confirms everything I have said about your meltdown.

Get well soon.


Disappointing.

As an adult capable of reading, I have been confirming Ian's version for quite some time.

Indeed, dude was kind enough to follow up on your amateur psychiatric diagnosis (smarmy) with documentation helpfully indicating exactly that.

Please don't double down on this bullshit.

I'm not going to ask you to apologize, because you're not sorry, but I am asking you to stop.


Show me where I called them fascists. Quote me -- the full post, none of your (or his) tendentious editings. Chapter and verse. Regard that as a challenge.

(I might well ask you to apologise, depending on how honest your response when you come up empty-handed.)
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:56 am

Show me where I called them fascists. Quote me -- the full post, none of your (or his) tendentious editings. Chapter and verse. Regard that as a challenge.

(I might well ask you to apologise, depending on how honest your response when you come up empty-handed.)


Well, that's one approach.

You were just shown a laundry list of your own writing, from this thread, composed of precisely that. Now you want me to replicate that, with full posts instead of highlighting the passages where you are invoking the Fascism/Nazism of those who disagree with you, Boston in general, and Ian in specific.

Which is a strange request considering the concerns you voiced just a few short posts ago...

MacCruiskeen » Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:22 am wrote:Ian, I now understand why you're taking such pains to deface this thread repeatedly with your bizarre antics, including and especially your senseless cut'n'paste antics (which take up gigantic amounts of space): You're hoping to make this thread unreadable and thus persuade a mod to firepit it.


:thumbsup So yeah, I'm sorry. I'm very fucking sorry to have to be in this fucking position again.

It's just surreal that you're going to pretend you didn't say what you said, even when you're shown what you said, and respond with demands to prove you said what you said. The fuck, man? Grow up. Enjoy a week off.

I'm sorry that I can't let anything slide because it always blossoms into shit like this. I'm sorry that I have to be an administrator at an adult day care. I'm sorry, Mac.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:05 pm

Back again on topic again again (if humanly possible): this is highly-relevant recent history, about a murderous act of domestic terrorism that claimed five American lives on American soil (two more than in Boston) and greatly eased the lives of The Authorities:

Wednesday, July 04, 2007

Prof. Francis Boyle: 2001 anthrax attacks were a covered-up inside job

http://qlipoth.blogspot.de/search/label/anthrax


Note especially what he says, and documents, about the FBI-led "investigation". I don't think he actually uses the word "patsy", but any adults capable of reading can draw their own conclusions. The corporate media eventually firepitted the whole story, once it became too embarrassing, but by then it had in any case fulfilled its purpose, i.e. to facilitate the passing of the Patriot Act, unread by those who passed it because it was a huge tome, planned and composed by The Authorities years in advance, for they are nothing if not prescient.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:12 pm

WR, I am repeating my request to you, which is now a demand, although you are an Authority:

Show me where I called them fascists. Or else retract your (and his) accusation, and do the decent thing: apologise.

Because here's the blatantly-obvious truth: It is a plain and shameless lie to suggest that I ever did. You know this, because you would post the evidence if you had it. Reminder: there are people here who can read and who are following this thread closely.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:27 pm

The FBI "clean-up" operation continues, for there are still a few terrified young immigrants who have not yet been disposed of:

Six years:

http://www.npr.org/2015/06/02/411533449 ... f-evidence

Three-and-a-half years:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/ ... story.html

And here's the great, appalling WhoWhatWhy report on the treatment of Ibragim Todashev's friends and family after the FBI had murdered him in cold blood. In fact there is hardly anyone* associated with the Tsarnaev Affair who has not been deported, threatened with deportation, harrassed, intimidated, interrogated unlawfully, or indeed actually killed by the FBI:

October 29, 2013 | Dave Lindorff, Russ Baker and Milicent Cranor

FBI War on Boston Witnesses

In the six months since the Boston Marathon bombing, the FBI has by all appearances been relentlessly intimidating, punishing, deporting and, in one case, shooting to death, persons connected, sometimes only tangentially, with the alleged bombers.

All of these individuals have something in common: If afforded constitutional protections and treated as witnesses instead of perpetrators, they could potentially help clear up questions about the violence of April 15. And they might also be able to help clarify the methods and extent of the FBI’s recruitment of immigrants and others for undercover work, and how that could relate to the Bureau’s prior relationship with the bombing suspects—a relationship the Bureau has variously hidden or downplayed.

Who Cares? We Do

[...]

http://whowhatwhy.org/2013/10/29/feds-a ... f-friends/


*(at least hardly anyone Muslim)
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things are not simple anymore

Postby IanEye » Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:30 am

IanEye » Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:16 am wrote:fair enough, I am off to research Victor Meldrew.




Ok, after doing a bit of research it would appear Victor Meldrew is a curmudgeon with one foot in the grave.

*

Image







*
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby DrEvil » Sun Jun 07, 2015 5:07 pm

MacCruiskeen » Wed May 20, 2015 1:05 pm wrote:It's fascism, Sounder. Fascism wearing a liberal mask, but still wrapped in the flag. And baying for blood.
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby identity » Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:56 pm

Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line
by FourthBase » Fri May 10, 2013 5:37 pm
How could anyone here not yet know Uncle Tsarni was Fuller's live-in son-in-law?
Better late than never!

Just in case that seems trifling: Think of the epic vetting that would've initiated.
The CIA et. al. would've known every member of Tsarni's immediate family.
And would've kept knowing them. Indefinitely.

You don't just casually let a well-connected Chechen marry the daughter of and live with a man like Fuller who, no matter when he "quits" the CIA (lol, like that ever happens), would still possess in his mind vital national security secrets. Tsarni's family would've had a thick, thick file. When these brothers were mere children. The two brothers would've had their own files, maybe. If no files, at all, if no vetting, at all, then Fuller would've had to hide Tsarni from that necessary process, would likely be negligent to probably a criminal degree, if not traitorous degree. Or, Tsarni is a total security-cleared CIA asset himself. One inconvenient-for-the-perps thing or another. There is really no possible innocent explanation here. Hence, one of the reasons I think the whole bombing and aftermath did not turn out at all like the perps hoped.

Fuller is very, very much connected to the bombing. Very.
In case it's unclear: I personally suspect Fuller of being a perp, a mastermind maybe.


From Operation Gladio - The Unholy Alliance between the Vatican, the CIA, and the Mafia by Paul L. Williams (with some minor deletions for brevity):

OTTOMAN DREAMS

The US military-industrial complex's struggle for world control now centered on this region of
China and the “stan” countries throughout Central Asia, particularly Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, and
Tajikistan. In 1998, Zbigniew Brzezinski expressed the vital importance of the United States gaining
control of these countries, writing:

The world's energy consumption is bound to vastly increase over the next two or three decades. Estimates by the US Department of Energy anticipate that world demand will rise by more than 50 percent between 1993 and 2015, with the most significant increase in consumption occurring in the Far East. The momentum of Asia's economic development is already generating massive pressures for the exploration and exploitation of new sources of energy and the Central Asian region and the Caspian Sea basin are known to contain reserves of natural gas and oil that dwarf those of Kuwait, the Gulf of Mexico, or the North Sea.

The inhabitants of these republics, including the mythical East Turkistan, spoke the Turkish
language, upheld the Turkish culture, and shared the Turkish version of Islam. It didn't take an
Einstein to realize that the vast area that stretched from the Anatolian plains to the Great Wall of China
could only be united by the Pan-Turkish movement. Such a movement could not emanate from NATO
headquarters, let alone Langley, Virginia. The republics continued to share a strong anti-Western
animus, along with a deep suspicion of the United States that had been fostered by decades of Soviet
control. For the United States, control of that region's vast resources could only be obtained by
employing Turkey as a proxy. Sibel Edmonds, the FBI's former Turkish translator and a renowned
whistleblower explains:

You've got to look at the big picture. After the fall of the Soviet Union, the super powers began to fight over control of Central Asia, particularly the oil and gas wealth, as well as the strategic value of the region.
Given the history, and the distrust of the West, the US realized that it couldn't get direct control, and therefore would need to use a proxy to gain control quickly and effectively. Turkey was the perfect proxy; a NATO ally and a puppet regime…

This started more than a decade-long illegal, covert operation in Central Asia by a small group in the US intent on furthering the oil industry and the Military Industrial Complex, using Turkish operatives, Saudi partners and Pakistani allies, furthering this objective in the name of Islam. This is why I have been saying repeatedly that these illegal covert operations by the Turks and certain US persons dates back to 1996, and involves terrorist activities, narcotics, weapons smuggling and money laundering, converging around the same operations and involving the same actors. And I want to emphasize that this is “illegal” because most, if not all, of the funding for these operations is not congressionally approved funding, but it comes from illegal activities.


PAN TURKISM

During the Cold War, a Pan-Turkish movement was unleashed by Col. Alparslan Türkeş, the Gladio
commander in Turkey, who upheld a belief in Turkish racial superiority. He envisioned the
restoration of the Ottoman Empire from the collapse of the Soviet Union, which kept the Turkish
peoples of Central Asia in political and economic bondage. The Grey Wolves, the “youth military
unit” formed by Türkeş, were named after the legendary wolves that led the scattered Turkish tribes
out of Asia to their homeland in Anatolia. This task did not seem daunting. Thanks to Gladio, the CIA
had controlled Turkish affairs for decades. Çatlı, as a disciple of Türkeş, was an extremely useful
agent provocateur—an operative capable by expanding both the drug trade and the strategy of tension
within Xinjiang and Central Asia.

Throughout the 1990s, hundreds of Uyghurs were transported to Afghanistan by the CIA for
training in guerrilla warfare by the mujahideen. When they returned to Xinjiang, they formed the East
Turkistan Islamic Movement and came under Çatlı's expert direction. Graham Fuller, CIA superspy,
offered this explanation for radicalizing the Chinese Muslims:

The policy of guiding the evolution of Islam and of helping them [Muslims] against our adversaries worked marvelously well in Afghanistan against the Red Army. The same doctrines can still be used to destabilize what remains of Russian power, and especially to counter the Chinese influence in Central Asia.

This policy of destabilization was devised by Bernard Lewis, an Oxford University specialist on
Islamic studies, who called for the creation of an “Arc of Crisis” around the southern borders of the
Soviet Union by empowering Muslim radicals to rebel against their Communist overlords.

NEW LEAD ACTOR

Fethullah Gülen, who presently governs one of the world's “most powerful and best-connected”
Muslim networks, has been said to be the “strongest and most effective Islamic fundamentalist in
Turkey”—an individual who “camouflages his methods with a democratic and moderate image.”
His movement, which seeks to create a New Islamic World Order, has amassed approximately ten
million supporters—many of whom contribute between 5 percent and 20 percent of their income to
his movement—and his tentacles stretch from Central Asia to the United States. With an estimated
$50 billion in assets, the reclusive Islamist reportedly controls over one thousand schools in 130
countries, along with political action groups, newspapers (including Zaman, Turkey's leading daily),
television and radio stations, universities, a massive conglomerate called Kaynak Holding, and even a
centralized bank.

Gülen was a student and follower of Sheikh Sa'id-i Kurdi (1878–1960), also known as Sa'id-i
Nursi, the founder of the Islamist Nur (light) movement. After Turkey's war of independence, Kurdi
demanded, in an address to the new parliament, that the new republic be based on Islamic principles.
Gülen advanced these principles in his sermons and teachings. In 1979, he issued this exhortation:
“Muslims should become bombs and explode, tear to pieces the heads of the infidels, even if it's
America opposing them.” During the 1980s, Gülen worked with the Grey Wolves and the CIA in
covert operations against the PKK and other Communist groups. His primary contact with the Agency
was Morton Abramowitz, who later became the US ambassador to Turkey.

By 1990, Gülen had emerged as a key CIA asset and began to establish over 350 mosques and
madrassahs throughout Turkey and Central Asia, paid for with black funds from the drug trade. His
financial resources and political influence continued to increase, until Gülen had become one of the
most powerful figures in Turkey: an imam with millions of followers and seemingly limitless
financial resources. Few figures on the world's stage assumed a more important role in the
unfolding saga that became known as Gladio II.

Throughout the 1990s, the CIA sought to soften Gülen's image. The Muslim preacher was presented
not as a militant Islamist but as a humanitarian devoted to the Muslim ideal of Hizmet—altruistic
service for the common good. This image was furthered by a plethora of articles and books—
allegedly penned by Gülen—from a self-publishing company.

SAFE WITH UNCLE SAM

In 1998, Gülen fled to the Pocono Mountains of Pennsylvania in order to avoid prosecution on
charges that he was attempting to undermine Turkey's secular government. He was described in the
indictment as the “strongest and most effective Islamic fundamentalist in Turkey,” a person who
“camouflages his methods with a democratic and moderate image” The Turkish court document
further said that Gülen had established a network of schools as a front for a sinister plan. “Mr. Gülen
was planning to use the young people whom he brainwashed at his own schools to set up his Islamic
state,” the indictment maintained.

One year later, Gülen was implicated by Uzbekistan authorities in the attempted assassination of
Islam Karimov, the president of Uzbekistan and the head of the Uzbek Communist Party. The same
authorities uncovered Gülen's CIA connections. The seventy teachers he had sent to his schools in
Uzbekistan held US diplomatic status and red and green diplomatic passports and traveled under the
aegis of a mysterious organization called “US Friendship Bridge.” All of Gülen's madrassahs in
Uzbekistan were closed and eight journalists, who had graduated from his schools, were found guilty
of engaging in seditious activities.

After his arrival in Pennsylvania, FBI and Homeland Security officials made numerous attempts to
deport Gülen. But in 2008 a federal court ruled that Gülen was a person of “extraordinary ability in
the field of education” who merited permanent residency status in the United States. This ruling
struck many as odd, since Gülen lacked a high-school education, spoke little or no English, and had
never penned an article or book on the subject of education. Odder still was the appearance of
prominent US officials in court, offering testimony on Gülen's behalf. The dignitaries included
former CIA officials Graham Fuller and George Fidas, along with former US ambassadors to Turkey
Morton Abramowitz and Marc Grossman.

HIDDEN AGENDA

In his public statements, Gülen continues to espouse a liberal version of Sunni/Hanafi Islam, and the
notion of Hizmet. He has condemned terrorism and called for interfaith dialogue. Prominent US
officials have lavished praise on the Turkish pasha, claiming that he is a leading voice of moderation
in the Islamic world. On September 25, 2008, former president Bill Clinton greeted an audience of
Gülen's disciples at the third-annual Friendship Dinner of the Turkish Cultural Center (one of Gülen's
non-profit organizations) by saying, “You're contributing to the promotion of the ideals of tolerance
and interfaith dialogue inspired by Fethullah Gülen and his transnational social movement.”

In private, Gülen has said that “in order to reach the ideal Muslim society every method and path is
acceptable, [including] lying to people.” In a sermon aired on Turkish television, he announced to
his legion of followers his plan to create a New Islamic World Order:

You must move in the arteries of the system without anyone noticing your existence until you reach all the power centers…until the conditions are ripe, they [the followers] must continue like this. If they do something prematurely, the world will crush our heads, and Muslims will suffer everywhere, like in the tragedies in Algeria, like in 1982 [in] Syria…like in the yearly disasters and tragedies in Egypt. The time is not yet right. You must wait for the time when you are complete and conditions are ripe, until we can shoulder the entire world and carry it…. You must wait until such time as you have gotten all the state power, until you have brought to your side all the power of the constitutional institutions in Turkey…. Until that time, any step taken would be too early—like breaking an egg without waiting the full forty days for it to hatch. It would be like killing the chick inside. The work to be done is [in] confronting the world. Now, I have expressed my feelings and thoughts to you all—in confidence…trusting your loyalty and secrecy. I know that when you leave here—[just] as you discard your empty juice boxes, you must discard the thoughts and the feelings that I expressed here.

TURKEY TRANSFORMED

Upon his arrival in Pennsylvania, Gülen, with the aid of CIA advisors, helped to create the Justice and
Democratic Party (Adalet ve Kalkinma, AKP), which now controls the Turkish government.
Under Gülen's influence, Turkey has transformed from a secular state into a nation with eighty-five
thousand active mosques—one for every 350 citizens, the highest number per capita in the world—
ninety thousand imams—more imams than teachers and physicians—and thousands of state-run
Islamic schools. In recent years, Turkey has also witnessed a reign of terror, with the random
arrests of AKP opponents , including a dozen middle-aged liberal women who worked for the Society
for Contemporary Life, an organization that provided educational services and scholarships to poor
teenage girls. Hundreds of others were taken into custody during midnight raids, including army
officers, renowned journalists, and artists. According to Newsweek, the arrests illustrate the power of
Gülen's tarikat (Islamic order) which now controls the government.

THE GÜLEN SCHOOLS

According to Bayram Balci, one of Gülen's leading proponents and a spokesman for the movement,
the Gülen schools have been established throughout the world to expand “the Islamization of Turkish
nationality and the Turkification of Islam” in order to bring about a universal caliphate ruled by
Islamic law. Such a caliphate, Balci maintains, cannot be created without the cultivation of an
educated elite who will advance Turkish and Islamic interests in their native countries. This task, he
adds, may be accomplished only by the adoption of stealthy techniques since the open promotion of
religion is prohibited in the public schools of many countries, including the United States. Such
techniques, Balci contends, mandates that the teachers and administrators of the Gülen schools
indoctrinate students in the tenets of militant Islam by temsel (becoming role models) rather than
teblig (open proselytism).

The schools throughout Central Asia contain CIA operatives who function under the guise of
“American teachers, teaching English.” Since English is a mandatory subject, these madrassahs
provide the Agency with an even better cover than Fr. Morlion's Pro Deo. Several countries,
including Russia and Uzbekistan, have outlawed the Gülen schools and cemaats (communities) within
their borders, realizing that they serve to advance the CIA master plan. Even the Netherlands, a nation
that embraces pluralism and tolerance, has opted to cut funding to the Gülen schools because of their
threat to the social order.

Over 140 “Gülen-inspired” schools have been established throughout the United States. They are
staffed with Turkish administrators and Turkish educators, who come to the United States with “H-
1B” visas—visas reserved for highly skilled foreign workers who fill a need in the US workforce.
In the schools, students are immersed in Turkish culture, customs, religion, history, and language.
They are taught that the Ottoman Empire represented the golden age of global civilization and that the
Armenian Holocaust never occurred. The crème de la crème of the students are sent to Turkey each
year to compete for prizes in the Turkish Olympiad by singing Turkish songs and reciting Turkish
poetry. The event, which is sponsored by the Gülen Movement, has been established to promote
Turkish as a new international language. By the time of their high school graduation, the students of
these charter schools, which are fully funded by US taxpayers, will be groomed to play a part in the
advancement of the master plan called Gladio II.



FourthBase, again, May 2015:

Might as well flirt with this board's third rail. I don't understand the seeming disconnect here when it comes to dot-connecting methodology. If PTech + government agencies + thinktank ideology = solid ground for a conspiracy theory, then why isn't that kind of thinking also applied to mosques and religious ideology? Why is it assumed as a rule that whatever bad shit gets associated with Islamic institutions it must be inauthentic, must be a false flag, infiltration, provocation? Again: I'm not a lone-nutter, I'm not a lone-wolfer. I'm not saying that the FBI doesn't entrap and frame, that is obviously also something that happens. I'm not saying that warmongering right wing profiteers aren't scheming to create pretexts, that is obviously also something that happens. But I don't see why Islamic institutions generally get the benefit of the doubt, why they can't also, at the same time, be guilty of some of the same kind of shit Western institutions are suspected of, world-dominating schemes, mass murder, etc. Just because shrill wingnuts are paranoid about it, doesn't mean it's not actually happening, too. Just because the government pulls some unconstitutional bullshit, doesn't mean it's totally lying, doesn't mean suspects are totally innocent. Just because ghoulish right wing masterminds try to shape and exploit a phenomenon, doesn't mean the phenomenon wasn't already a terrifying real thing with its own independent momentum, its own conspiratorial network, its own sinister agenda. I can understand not wanting to swim in the same side of the deep end of the pool as Geller & Co. since their water is contaminated with the vile feces of bigotry. But what if there's still taboo truth over there to examine and parse out? What if terrorism isn't wholly manufactured as a psyop, what if radical Islam would exist in pursuit of the same shit in the same way with the same energy even if all the spooks and vampire squids vanished tomorrow? What then?

You mean Muslim organizations like the royal family of Saudi Arabia?

Yes, of course. And also the ones that aren't in a devious alliance with American military and business interests. The countries, institutions, and movements that the left habitually redirects the focus away from, shields from direct blame...those too.

So, like, imagine: The spooks and vampire squids disappear, the military withdraws, America is dethroned, capitalism is overthrown, Israel packs up and moves to Antarctica, your wildest dreams come true, your champagne is popped. But wait, Islamism under a handful of banners is still there, still dreaming its own dreams of domination, still waging an offensive jihad, lo and behold, still up to the same evil shit characterized today as nothing more than FBI-sting intentional own-goals or little more than the inevitable byproduct of Western colonialist interference, just with different excuses now. What then? And what if it has more or less been that way for a while, that no matter what there would still have been some form of a 9/11, a 7/7, a Madrid, a Mumbai, a Marathon, an ISIS, an Al Qaeda, a Taliban, a Brotherhood, etc.? When would it start to be okay to theorize about Islamic conspiracies on their own terms?

Or would there always be some non-Islamic root cause to shift the blame to? Would you first need to wait a hundred years or so for grievances to take root and grow to full maturity against an Islamic version of supremacism, colonialism, militarism, social injustice before you felt comfortable enough articulating deep suspicions? Are you banking on people power to overcome Islamism, too, to transform Islamist culture into a something egalitarian? That's what I'm trying to understand.

The dot-connecting, though, how it's applied inconsistently -- or rather, consistently for one thing, and never for the other: That's what specifically confuses me. It's the mirror image of how the dots are connected by the anti-Islam right. The way that they connect the dots for Islamic entities is how the dots gets connected here for Western entities. Their blind spots are conmeasurate with the blind spots here, just flipped.

"Look at that wolf! It's forcing that sheep/abused-pitbull into wolf's-clothing, and then attacking it! Oh, wait...oops, that was also a wolf." I don't expect the right to have the breadth of mind to contemplate wolf-duality, but I expect the left to. Or, I used to, anyway. I'd love to be surprised.

Is it conceivable that a network of Islamists with a pseudo-moderate veneer is secretly plotting most of this bad shit and needs no help or impetus at all from any plant or puppetmaster? (While at the very same time the plants and puppetmasters could still be trying to trigger and assist the bad shit according to their own needs and specifications.) It's conceivable, right?


FB, you answered your own questions in another thread! Just FYI. :)

Just the facts
by FourthBase » Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:43 am
I think facts would be more effective than leading questions.


edit: pasted two small sections, Ottoman Dreams and Pan Turkism, at beginning of quoted material from Paul Williams' book. Apologies for the weird text formatting!
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby FourthBase » Sat Jun 13, 2015 4:03 pm

So as long as it can somehow be placed into a pro-American context then it's smart to be paranoid about Islamism but if it's Islamism in any other context then paranoia about it is racist?
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that fills you up and makes you naturally want to do your best.” - Bill Russell
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby FourthBase » Sat Jun 13, 2015 4:33 pm

Also, I am no longer of the opinion that the CIA is an ideological monolith. To me, it's not enough anymore to know that Fuller is CIA. Which CIA, what kind of spook. I don't think the only bad guys in the world are right wingers, Christians, capitalists, Americans, Westerners, etc.

Frankly, I don't belong on this board anymore. The paranoia here is limited to one particular set of preconceived villains and motives whereas anti-democratic evil scheming knows no bounds. I'll keep contributing to this thread, but otherwise, consider me retired.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby 82_28 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 4:38 pm

Nah. Fuck all that shit. Hate is hate. Manipulation is manipulation. It only appears to come in different and assorted flavors. It's all the same and the good among us say don't even do it in the first place. Believe me, I am a huge friendly prankster and always have been and I think I've hurt only one person with a prank because I was young and stupid and kicked out her leg from under her. I still feel fucking awful about that and always will.

But "islamism" is hardly to blame.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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