compared2what? wrote:
I'd say they were. I mean, I wouldn't obey anyone's orders to blockade people into concentration camps either.
But I like to think that my all-around non-servility and the cleanliness of my record wrt crimes against humanity speaks for itself in that regard well enough to render formal declarations unnecessary, leaving me with that much more energy to devote to objecting to it when it occurs.
Oh, I didn't know you are a member of the police or military. My bad. In other words - neither would I, but since I'm not a police/military active duty officer I don't think it matters in the same way that it matters for them.
compared2what? wrote:IOW: Refusing to do something in advance of being told to when there's no very great likelihood of receiving the order is, effectively, a complaint. Or at least a statement of strong dissatisfaction.
Well, you and they appear to gauge the 'likelihood of [their] receiving the order' differently. And again, I didn't know that you were steeped in the milieu that the military/police officers and enlisted men are steeped in. IE I didn't realize that you were in the front row of this and I really hope that you are, otherwise any assessment you make of their likelihood of receiving illegal orders is .... in a word.. bullshit.
compared2what? wrote:Second - where's the hysteria they are supposedly ginning up? At their rallies? Have you been to them? I haven't, so maybe.
No. I haven't. But they're repeatedly evoking the specter of such extreme abuses of power by the present-day U.S. government in that declaration that they have to go all the way back to the Boer fucking War to come up with examples that illustrate what they're talking about. Which (to me) suggests that they're intentionally trying to instill more fear and alarm over the prospect of them than they can produce any contemporary justification for doing.
Well, it's very unlikely that we're going to go back to pioneer times, too, but the Boyscouts are escaping your ire. I just don't see the big deal about this that you see. A bunch of men learning history and pledging to obey the law. I mean come on. You seem to be suggesting that them talking about abuses of power might set them flying off the edge, and one or more of them might get violent or something. It, IMO, has no better likelihood of happening in that group than anywhere else, including the PTAs of the world.
compared2what? wrote:Third - you're VERY difficult to follow most of the time, and this is no exception. It's me, it isn't you
Are you kidding? Just look at what I wrote in the last part of my reply. It's me.
compared2what? wrote:That being said, it appears in the last part of the above that you are suggesting that they might be fantasizing and loosely planning to stage a coup?
Indeed. But fwiw, yes. That is what I'm suggesting. But so are they:Further, we will know that the time for another American Revolution is nigh.
Or I'd say so, at least.
I think the phrase "we will know" means that they don't think the time for another American Revolution is nigh. So you can relax. I mean fuck, it's no different, is it, than Obama loosely planning and threatening to bomb the shit out of <Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Iran, etc etc> except that those people are over there and you're over here. If the Oath Keepers wanted to knee jerk react (as if they could do anything, really ,except keep their vows) they already have the cause - illegal orders. Illegal wars must contain illegal orders, I would imagine.
compared2what? wrote:I agree that it's not going to happen, like, tomorrow. But all armed coups by disaffected ex-military-staffed militias have to start somewhere. I mean, if the Beer Hall Putsch part of the movement-building goes well enough, it might not even end up having to be armed. You never know.
Interesting comparison.
The SA (Brownshirts) used at the Putsch were paramilitary and remind me a lot more of The Craft or Blackwater than of the Oath Keepers. The actual military man Hitler had hoped would join him did not do so on that night.
And I think you're on target with this in a way you might not have intended to be: IMHO (and this is pure speculation at the moment) - there is a coup being led, and my strong suspicion is that it is being carried out in large part by these paramilitary orgs (who likely don't know that they are being used this way) but one thing is certain, they don't give a shit whether or not the orders they are being given are legal or not.