Texas Abortion Ban Fight Underway

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Re: Texas Abortion Ban Fight Underway

Postby General Patton » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:49 am

seemslikeadream » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:47 am wrote:General....have you had the need for an abortion? I really really wish men would STAY OUT OF MY BODY...unless I invite them

Funny enough I haven't, have you?
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Re: Texas Abortion Ban Fight Underway

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:54 am

none of your fuckin business....of course my question was silly and didn't need a response from you...but please do stay out of my body and my decisions on what to do with it or what I have done with it...or what I will do with it...Who do you think you are ....the NSA?? Rick Perry??

and I'll stay off your penis....OK?

Quit worrin' about the little woman...we have brains we can take care of ourselves...we don't need you or the state to intervene..

if we see a dead pig on the floor of the Dr. office we'll probably walk away
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Texas Abortion Ban Fight Underway

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:10 am

that is if we have a Dr. office available to us....if not then we'll just have to fend for ourselves without ANY medical help and go for the hanger


btw...I am really old have a lot of kids...some female...have seen just about everything in my life...I have lived through the era of coat hangers and it wasn't pretty

so the nazi pigs that want to invade my body and my daughters bodies can literally go fuck themselves
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Texas Abortion Ban Fight Underway

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:23 am

You do know that "hygiene" thing is just a excuse/tactic to close the clinics....end abortions in Texas ....don't you?
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Texas Abortion Ban Fight Underway

Postby General Patton » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:36 am

seemslikeadream » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:23 am wrote:You do know that "hygiene" thing is just a excuse/tactic to close the clinics....end abortions in Texas ....don't you?


So here's the rub:

Typically regulators have a lot more power than lawmakers. Congress doesn't even write the bills that they pass and the people enforce the law, the civil service, have much more power over who does what and where. Bribery doesn't even need to be under the table. And with such the deep state grows. So yes, it's possible for both the clinics to be sub-standard and them use it as a tactic to get them shut-down. They certainly don't want them to have too much more funding.

I'm looking into it but I'm talking about the physical hygiene conditions and training of the medical staff performing the procedures.
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Re: Texas Abortion Ban Fight Underway

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:40 am

but again there will be no need to worry about hygiene and training of medical staff performing the procedures when there are NO CLINICS AVAILABLE TO WOMEN TO GO TO IN THE FIRST PLACE

Did you see the stats on page 2??

How many pregnant females died of abortion-related causes in 2011? None was reported, while 116 females died of pregnancy complications. The last abortion-related death was reported in 2008. Five such deaths have been reported since 2002, according to DSHS. It says all details are confidential.


When there are no abortion clinics to go to ...who's gonna regulate the coat hangers?
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Texas Abortion Ban Fight Underway

Postby General Patton » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:59 am

seemslikeadream » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:40 am wrote:but again there will be no need to worry about hygiene and training of medical staff performing the procedures when there are NO CLINICS AVAILABLE TO WOMEN TO GO TO IN THE FIRST PLACE

Did you see the stats on page 2??

How many pregnant females died of abortion-related causes in 2011? None was reported, while 116 females died of pregnancy complications. The last abortion-related death was reported in 2008. Five such deaths have been reported since 2002, according to DSHS. It says all details are confidential.


When there are no abortion clinics to go to ...who's gonna regulate the coat hangers?



The CDC figures are different and the record keeping is spotty from state to state, but the numbers are fairly small.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtm ... ss6108a1_w
Using national data from the Pregnancy Mortality Surveillance System (37), CDC identified 12 abortion-related deaths for 2008 (Table 25). These deaths were identified either by some indication of abortion on the death certificate, by reports from a health-care provider or public health agency, or from a media report. Investigation of these cases indicated that all 12 deaths were related to legal abortion and none to illegal abortion. The national legal induced abortion case-fatality rate for 2004–2008 was 0.64 legal induced abortion-related deaths per 100,000 reported legal abortions. Possible abortion-related deaths that occurred during 2009–2012 are under investigation.


Now, the question is the training and hygiene of the facilities and there ability to "get up to code". If there isn't any serious problem with them then it would settle your oppositions argument, no?
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Re: Texas Abortion Ban Fight Underway

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:08 am

I'm not opposed to training and hygiene of the facilities I am saying there will be no clinics to worry about in regards to that training and hygiene if the right to lifers get their way and CLOSE ALL THE CLINICS!

YOU WON'T HAVE TO WORRY YOUR PRETTY LITTLE HEAD WITH THOSE HYGIENE ISSUES WHEN ALL THE CLINICS ARE CLOSED
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Texas Abortion Ban Fight Underway

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:25 am

why are you so worried about hygiene...have you had some family member or friend die or seriously injured from a legal abortion in Texas?
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Texas Abortion Ban Fight Underway

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:02 am

why are you worried about a non-existant problem in the first place? That's what I can't figure out
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Texas Abortion Ban Fight Underway

Postby General Patton » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:34 am

seemslikeadream » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:02 am wrote:why are you worried about a non-existant problem in the first place? That's what I can't figure out

There have been health issues in the past and there have been investigations, though they were usually dropped. There's another on-going investigation at Harris County that hasn't been made public yet.
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Re: Texas Abortion Ban Fight Underway

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:40 am

health issues raised by who Elizabeth Graham?
Politics
Texas Right to Life Pushes More Bunk Science on "Preborn Pain," Calls Observer "Anti-Life"By Anna Merlan Wed., Mar. 13 2013 at 7:00 AM

Elizabeth Graham, Director of Texas Right to Life
Over the past couple months, we've brought you periodic updates on Texas Right to Life's quest to help pass a bill banning all abortions after 20 weeks. They've finally found a sponsor to carry that bill: State Representative Jodie Laubenberg filed the "Preborn Pain Act" this time last week. Texas Right to Life and the bill's other supporters -- including Governor Rick Perry -- make the assertion that fetuses are able to feel pain at 20 weeks.
The thing about that claim is that it's not true (we'll get into the voluminous evidence for that again in a moment). The second thing about that claim is that "fetal pain" legislation --- much like "personhood" legislation that tries to claim that life begins at fertilization -- is part of an ongoing attempt to ban abortion by inches. Which, as Perry keeps saying publicly, is exactly the point: to make abortion "a thing of the past."

A recent -- article? Press release? Not sure what to call this thing -- says the the Observer (that's us) is part of the "anti-Life" media. Apparently we're "predictably attacking" them while ignoring the scientific evidence.

Let's get right into that scientific evidence, shall we?

"Numerous scientific studies and physicians recognize that preborn children feel torturous pain from abortion by 20 weeks gestation, if not earlier," writes Texas Right to Life. (Nobody has signed the article.) "Contrary to the Observer's ludicrous claim that the reality of fetal pain is based on a study from 1987 that has been 'debunked,' ample recent evidence from the scientific community supports the bill."

Some background: "Preborn pain" bills banning abortion after either 20 or 22 weeks have been passed in eight states so far: Alabama, Arkansas, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Nebraska and Oklahoma. Many of these bills, like Texas', borrow liberally from language originally written by influential pro-life lobby group Americans United for Life. The one study AUL likes to cite to support their fetal pain claims is indeed from 1987. Here they are, citing it in the model legislation, which they termed the "Women's Health Defense Act." It claims that abortions are too dangerous for women after 20 weeks (not true), and even if they weren't, the fetus would be able to feel pain, and so abortions after that point should summarily be banned.

OK, Texas Right to Life. Let's take the 1987 study off the table for a moment and have a look at some of the other evidence you cite to support fetal pain, shall we? Let's not look at the Journal of the American Medical Association's comprehensive 2005 study, which found that "the capacity for functional pain perception in preterm neonates probably does not exist before 29 or 30 weeks." Let's also not look at this joint study by researchers from Harvard Law and Harvard Medical School, which calls fetal pain at 20 weeks a "speculative" claim. It adds that even if fetal pain at 20 weeks proved true -- a big if -- existing Supreme Court precedent makes it clear that this wouldn't be enough to make a 20-week ban constitutional. Also, please don't look at this one, from a 2011 volume of Current Biology, which found that the neural circuits "necessary for discrimination between touch and nociception emerge from 35-37 weeks gestation in the human brain." (Nociception is the neural process of deciphering "noxious stimuli," meaning pain.)

Instead of looking at all that actual and current science, let's follow the link that Texas Right to Life provides, which claims to show "dozens" of peer-reviewed studies proving that fetal pain at 20 weeks is an inarguable fact. The link leads us to a skeletal webpage called Doctors on Fetal Pain . Instead of linking to full studies, the page cherry-picks information to support its claims. Again, some of the studies they cite here are alarmingly old: from 1987 (the same study the AUL uses, once again), 1980, and even 1964. And all of the evidence they cite only shows that pain receptors begin to develop in the fetus before 20 weeks. But the neural pathways fetuses actually need to feel pain? Those aren't present until at least 24 weeks at the very, very earliest.

Need yet more evidence? This excellent Mother Jones piece on the myth of fetal pain links to, among other studies, one done in 2010 by the UK's Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists. They recommend against using anesthesia on fetuses in operations before 24 weeks, because the fetus " cannot experience pain in any sense prior to this gestation." In that same piece, Mother Jones speculates that the whole point of enacting fetal pain laws in the first place is to push an inevitable lawsuit towards the Supreme Court, with the idea that the balance has shifted on the court towards stricter anti-abortion laws.

It's not surprising that Texas Right to Life routinely uses old science and willfully misunderstood data. They seem determined to get safe, legal abortion banned by any means necessary, along with birth control, emergency contraception and accurate sex ed, no matter how many hysterical half-truths and outright lies about pain and danger they have to push. It's worth noting that these are the same people who recently claimed that abortion providers are prowling the halls of your kid's school, trying to goad them into having sex so they can make money off the abortion. And TRL director Elizabeth Graham recently referred to lawmakers who are trying to restore family planning funds as "a coven."

When you see witches in the hallways of the Legislature and abortionists hiding under your kid's desk, understanding science is probably the least of your problems.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Texas Abortion Ban Fight Underway

Postby General Patton » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:43 am

No, there were supposedly 3 whistleblowers who came out against Douglas Karpen awhile back, with cellphone footage of abortions that prompted the first investigation. There's always the chance that it could be a plant as activists are essentially professional liars. But there's also other issues related to expired medications being used, improper disposal of medical waste and unclean facilities. Again, hygiene of the facilities, nothing to do with fetal pain or any of that. Though supposedly he had performed abortions passed the limit.
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Re: Texas Abortion Ban Fight Underway

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:50 am

well like I said before when all the clinics are shut down you won't have to worry your pretty little head about that any longer and we will move to the coat hangers for women who can not afford to go out of the state of Texas and the reach of dirty old men for their constitution right to have an abortion
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Texas Abortion Ban Fight Underway

Postby General Patton » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:05 pm

seemslikeadream » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:50 am wrote:well like I said before when all the clinics are shut down you won't have to worry your pretty little head about that any longer and we will move to the coat hangers for women who can not afford to go out of the state of Texas and the reach of dirty old men for their constitution right to have an abortion


Healthcare in general is not very good in Texas, JCAHO frequently passes over violations in actual hospitals due to incompetence. There's a lot of problems well beyond whatever Republicans or Democrats are thrusting into the popular media. Completely ignoring (or having staff who are untrained) in health safety protocol can't be excused as being pro-women's health.
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