Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

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Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

Postby 8bitagent » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:31 pm

Not to get all John Mccain neocon, but I never got why conspiracy/anti war/anti government people give big passes to Russia. Because Putin acts as a quasi gutcheck to America?
This is a country that is experiencing a brutal crackdown on LGBT people, including supporters. Signed into law by Putin himself. A country where there is no conspiracy or mystery regarding
the death of many journalists/whistleblowers...done with Mossad like hubris by Russian linked forces.

This is a country who mass murdered countless Chechen innocents not long ago, and installed a puppet regime that then imposed hardcore Sharia law. A country where some cities are still under control of joint FSB-pedo narco mobs. I'm good online friends with people in both Russia and former satellites, and they paint day to day living there as not, well very fun.
Just google "Sudan Russia arms". And who was the FIRST foreign leader Bush called on 9/11? Putin. When it comes to killing Muslims, Putin and the White House have a lovely understanding.

Yet because Russia's government has the conspiracy/left politic friendly RT channel, that somehow makes Russia forgiveable? Hell I still believe FSB orchestrated some of those so called Chechen attacks
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Re: Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:37 pm

Behold: the power of propaganda. Those billions don't get spent on messaging because it's a corporate culture fad, like cloud computing or "Software as a Service." That shit works and those dividends are huge.

I would submit that precise ambient acceptance (and embrace!) by the US, shall we say, non-critical-thinking Left is largely thanks to RT.COM, which was worth every penny.

I would also submit that, while homophobia is far more violently articulated in Russia, to be sure, it seems like a broad category error indeed to be conflating the military activities of Russia's deep state and political elites with an actual character judgement on 100+ million humans spread out over 6+ million square miles, no?

Any country is inherently forgiveable, yes. Their leadership, not so much -- but then again, proles holding grudges is generally the only accountability they'll ever face. *rimshot*
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Re: Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

Postby 8bitagent » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:17 am

Wombaticus Rex » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:37 pm wrote:Behold: the power of propaganda. Those billions don't get spent on messaging because it's a corporate culture fad, like cloud computing or "Software as a Service." That shit works and those dividends are huge.

I would submit that precise ambient acceptance (and embrace!) by the US, shall we say, non-critical-thinking Left is largely thanks to RT.COM, which was worth every penny.

I would also submit that, while homophobia is far more violently articulated in Russia, to be sure, it seems like a broad category error indeed to be conflating the military activities of Russia's deep state and political elites with an actual character judgement on 100+ million humans spread out over 6+ million square miles, no?

Any country is inherently forgiveable, yes. Their leadership, not so much -- but then again, proles holding grudges is generally the only accountability they'll ever face. *rimshot*


It's 82_28's double bind hypothesis when I think about it. I do believe it's not a hoax or made up to believe Serbian forces really did kill and rape a whole lot of people, or that Syrian forces killed a lot of innocents in recent years. But I also understand the West's financing and arming of violent Islamic brigades in both those conflicts to stir shit up.

I've often talked about bad things China and Russia does, but I understand the nature of their "role" as actor states. The somewhat buffer against the West and allied forces. While I have always agreed with strong criticism against America's foreign policy, domestically I would say Americans have a lot more freedom than in China or Russia. I can go to the front of the White House holding a sign with images of dead Pakistani drone victims and stand all day handing out leaflets. In Saudi Arabia, or heck many other nations criticizing the government so openly will get you disappeared quickly. But then, that's the "agreement" we have. The (illusion?) of (physical, but not financial/class) freedom in trade for unchecked military and domestic spying power.

With Russia I'm specifically talking about the government, not the people. The slaughter of Chechens and recent brutal crack down on LGBT protestors following Putin's signing of anti gay legislation, along with brazen journalist assassinations is the tip of the iceberg. But again, if some stratagem sickos got their way, they'd want their fantasy of a western war against russia and china in full swing.
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Re: Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

Postby jingofever » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:41 am

Some people apologized for Stalin and who else. I don't think there is any question that the FSB exploded those apartment buildings. And yet so many things happen in this country that had they occurred in Russia people would be screaming conspiracy. Most recently I am thinking of Hastings and that guy the FBI shot in the head and then offered about sixty contradictory explanations.
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Re: Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

Postby 8bitagent » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:15 pm

Wow, Russia is really going full bore with the anti gay agenda. Wonder what Putin thinks he'll gain from this?


jingofever » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:41 am wrote:Some people apologized for Stalin and who else. I don't think there is any question that the FSB exploded those apartment buildings. And yet so many things happen in this country that had they occurred in Russia people would be screaming conspiracy. Most recently I am thinking of Hastings and that guy the FBI shot in the head and then offered about sixty contradictory explanations.


Oh exactly. If Hastings or the MMA fighter(forget his name) allegedly connected to Tamerlan happened in Russia, noone would be thinking anything other than assassination.
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Re: Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

Postby Gashweir » Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:24 pm

Its an interesting question, though one which has, I believe, a relatively simple answer. At heart, people want to believe in good and evil, and more specifically, they tend to believe that if some force or group or government is opposing evil then that force or group or government must be good. So if the American government is causing harm to the world they are the bad guys, and if the Russian government opposes the American government they are the good guys. It is very human to want simple, comprehensible answers, but reality is seldom so obliging.

You can see a similar desire for clear answers when people try to posit the reasons behind world events, or in the motives of the elite. The Iraq War was about oil, the Jesuits rule the world, the Israeli's did 9/11, the Muslims did 9/11, etc. etc. Doesn't mean there is zero truth in these ideas, but they greatly oversimplify the reality. It seems to me that there are almost always a multitude of converging factors and interests and motives, and only when enough of these interests desire an action or an outcome do these momentous events happen.
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Re: Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

Postby JackRiddler » Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:00 pm

I make no apologies for Russia, nor for the Soviet Union before it. Definitely not for Putin, who came to power thanks to the 9/99 apartment bombings, one of the most obvious coups d'etat driven by false-flag operations ever. Absolutely not for the ultra-regressive anti-gay policy.

It's not an apology to acknowledge the following:
- Yeltsin catered to US-Western interests and ideologies at great cost to the Russian economy, which was devastated by US-recommended shock therapy and the like.
- Russia now protects national economic interests, albeit as these are narrowly defined on behalf of its own mafioso power elite in alliance with the Putin regime and the state. This is unusual in an imperialist or "globalist" age. Before it, the Soviet Union acted as a genuine protector of nations under imperialist siege (such as Cuba and NIcaragua) insofar as these were outside its sphere of influence (where it was as bad and sometimes far worse than the US was with its client regimes).
- RT reporting on the United States is often stellar and praiseworthy, because it has no incentive to lie about the US, and no reason to undermine trust in its coverage by exaggerating. There is no need to exaggerate anything about the present-day US, you only need cover the truth and it's devastating enough, and nothing like what's on the servile US corporate media.
- Russia just did the right thing with regard to Snowden.
- The USG intel complex is trying to worm in its way into Russian opposition groups and instrumentalize these with little regard to Russian interests.

Okay? It's really not that much complexity that needs to be introduced here to resolve the supposed contradictions.

I'm used to this nonsense: Been hearing "Go back to Russia!" since I was young. If you weren't for the aggressive war on Iraq, you loved Saddam. Etc. etc. etc.

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Re: Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

Postby Occult Means Hidden » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:22 am

Rage against the ever vicious downward spiral.
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Re: Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

Postby 8bitagent » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:14 am

I just don't like hypocrisy. When it was less acceptable to criticize Israel, often "anti Semitic" would be alleged for supporting Palestine. But I also support Israel and am very happy with their LGBT and gender equality.
I can accept that the West was using proxy Islamic militants in Serbia as *well* as Serb armies were committing mass rapes and attrocities that certainly were not staged.
Just like I believe Bashir and Syria really have massacred thousands of civilians as well as the West supporting Islamic militants to topple Bashir.

There's just too much black and white, and I really appreciate Jack's post above me as he is definitely right about that portion of it.

However, I just do not like the hypocrisy of RT being this conspiracy channel against America(and I 10000% support any truthful exposing of American government and military evil)
yet not using that critical lens on itself. RT doing a segment on Hastings being killed in a conspiracy? Haha, that's a riot...uh, what about the hundreds of journalists, whistleblowers
and other people that have been killed by the Russian state? The mass slaughter of Chechens, arming of the Darfur genocide, the rigged elections, and now this mass, often violent persecution of gay people is just unacceptable.
Just like what America has done overseas and financially via wallstreet is completely unacceptable.

Putin struts around shirtless like he's a big hero, but he's just another POS in my mind like Cheney, Bush, the Gulf oil elites and the rest of the globalist psychopaths.
Hell I can even admit Saddam was a thug, but also 100% believe the invasion was evil and immoral.
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Re: Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

Postby Hammer of Los » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:43 am

...

Seeming enemy of your enemy not necessarily your friend.

Might not even actually be enemy of your enemy!

Besides, I can't think of "Russia" as an "entity" or "person" at all.

The concept of the nation state serves to occlude rather than reveal.

The true enemies are greed, desire and the will to control in the service of desire.

They can be found in all unenlightened beings.

...
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Re: Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

Postby 8bitagent » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:22 pm

fucking finally. RT exposed and called out for their shit, live on tv. bravo man, bravo.

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Re: Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

Postby DrVolin » Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:38 pm

The Russian elites have always natural allies of the Anglo-American elites. This was true every time that push came to shove: 1809, 1914, 1941. Even the Cold War diversion was an engineered stable state between natural allies. It will continue to be true now that the common enemy is China. That's why people apologize for Russia.
all these dreams are swept aside
By bloody hands of the hypnotized
Who carry the cross of homicide
And history bears the scars of our civil wars

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Re: Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

Postby Lord Balto » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:16 pm

DrVolin » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:38 pm wrote:The Russian elites have always natural allies of the Anglo-American elites. This was true every time that push came to shove: 1809, 1914, 1941. Even the Cold War diversion was an engineered stable state between natural allies. It will continue to be true now that the common enemy is China. That's why people apologize for Russia.


If I recall correctly, the Russian nobility spoke French as a first language and Russian with an accent.

I have recently been looking at the genealogy of the royal houses of Europe in the process of writing of a chapter on where exactly Leonardo had gotten off to before he went to work for the Sforzas in 1487: http://neros.lordbalto.com/ChapterNineteen.htm

It turns out that not only are most of them (including many popes) related, they virtually all claim descent from Charlemagne=Charles I, Emperor of the West. See, for example, Williams, George L. Papal Genealogy: The Families and Descendants of the Popes. Jefferson, North Carolina, 1998. And, in fact, many of them were descended from the Viscontis, who ended up merging with the Sforza family.
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Re: Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

Postby KeenInsight » Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:33 pm

I am apologetic to the Russian people, of many different ethnic groups, as a people, as human beings, not their Government and certainly not Putin and certainly not bigots or racists. All leaders play their games on the world theater and un-accepting people remain blissfully in their own little worlds.

I am unapologetic to the U.S. Government, but that does not mean that all people within the government are bad people either. Everyone knows that the elite in the Russian government too have been complicit in False Flag operations, at least I would assume so on these forums, just like other world powers.
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Re: Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

Postby American Dream » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:44 pm

This thread has content on Homophobia and the Russian State, and is worth bumping too:


‘Pro-Family’ Leaders In Russia Want To Decriminalize Domestic Battery

By Brian Tashman | January 13, 2017 3:21 pm

Two of the “pro-family” lawmakers behind Russia’s ban on “homosexual propaganda” are now behind a bill that would “downgrade assault inside the traditional family unit from a criminal offense to a misdemeanor,” according to a report by Tom Balmforth of Radio Free Europe.

Many U.S. Religious Right activists have become enamored with the Russian leaders behind such “pro-family” policies, claiming that Russia is leading a resurgence of traditional conservative values in the West

The bill, which Balmforth says “is in keeping with the conservative values espoused by President Vladimir Putin and has been protested by antidomestic abuse activists,” appears to have strong support in the Russian Duma.

Olga Batalina, a parliamentarian with Putin’s United Russia party and an author of the bill, is a leader of the so-called “pro-family” movement in Russia and, according to the Associated Press, “championed the law banning the spread of propaganda of ‘nontraditional sexual relations’ among minors,” commonly known as the “homosexual propaganda” ban.

She is a “close ally” of fellow parliamentarian Yelena Mizulina, an author of the anti-gay law and one of its most vocal supporters, and joined with Mizulina in filing a slander lawsuit against a prominent gay rights activist and others for comments they made about the law. Gay Star News noted that Batalina even backed attempts to stop bookstores from selling gay-friendly literature.

Mizulina, who has ties to American anti-LGBTQ activists, is another prominent supporter of the legislation, calling the current statutes on domestic violence “absurd.”

President Vladimir Putin appeared to back the bill when he questioned government “interference with the family.”

Many American Religious Right activists have lauded Russia’s “pro-family” laws as a model for the world, and have particularly admired Putin thanks to his crackdown on LGBTQ Russians. Indeed, this faction’s love for Putin’s homophobia often leads them to either ignore or stay silent about the ways Putin’s government has marginalized non-Russian-Orthodox Christians by outlawing evangelism and backing anti-Protestant militias in Ukraine, his granting of permission for polygamous marriages and the imposition of Sharia law in Chechnya, not to mention his record of crushing dissent and stifling civil rights and democracy.


http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/pro- ... c-battery/
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