Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

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Re: Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

Postby American Dream » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:34 pm

0_0 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:22 pm wrote:American Dream would not pass the Turing test for me, hope that's ok to say


Speaking of the Devil, an example of nothing more than ad hominem. Thanks, I guess.

Do you believe that Russian bots are a actually a thing, 0_0?
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Re: Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

Postby 0_0 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:43 pm

oh yeh i def do believe in russian bots and they can also include transgender toasters, moon landings and dogs that are patriots with their paws in strange waters who bark at smaller and smaller things that may or may not be relevant
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Re: Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

Postby American Dream » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:47 pm

Thanks for nothing. I am now going to go somewhere else and quietly scream.
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Re: Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

Postby Sounder » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:09 am

AD wrote...
prefer to speculate less about motivations and focus more on the facts on the ground,


Clearly we also see the facts differently. Fact is the US through sunni arab states, NED and CIA funded takfiri headchopers to destroy a country. Russia stopped that and have nearly ended the takfiri carnage. How many civilians have takfiris massacred? Now I am supposed to participate is the hate Russia campaign? are you mad?

e.g. this particular left pundit denies that Assad is responsible for a civilian massacre,


Is this the gas attack so many people talk about and put on Assad, even though it is well known that it is the takfiris that make and use gas?
despite the evidence that this is so, and/or other things of this nature.


It's a good thing that White Helmets and such provide discerning people with the material needed judge the viability of other product that matches up with the; hey we are the good guys narrative.

It leaves open the possibility that they sincerely believe in tankie style "anti-Imperialism" but also that there may be a financial interest hidden in there somewhere, too. When we have more evidence, we'll have more evidence.


See, it sentences like this that may lead some to think you are a bot. Is tankie a blanket ad hominem for those that oppose western Imperialism? Could it be that some see the flailing about of this collapsing empire as being dangerous to the lives and dignity of an extraordinary large number of human beings? Might our financial interest be something so simple as the realization that hate breeding is injurious to the common man while it enriches very rich (mostly white) men?

AD wrote....
Thanks for nothing. I am now going to go somewhere else and quietly scream.

Why, because 0-0 is a betrayer to the transgender uprising?
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

Postby American Dream » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:49 pm

http://countervortex.org/node/15791

Counterpunch justifies Kremlin propaganda

Submitted by Bill Weinberg on Mon, 01/01/2018

Note just how far things have deteriorated. The Washington Post on Dec. 25 ran a piece, "Kremlin trolls burned across the Internet as Washington debated options," citing FBI sources to the effect that one "Alice Donovan," who wrote several pieces for Counterpunch over the past year, was actually a "probable Russian troll." Although her initial e-mail to Counterpunch said "I'm a beginner freelance journalist," the implication is "she" (who knows?) was really part of a Kremlin-directed propaganda campaign. In a retort, "Go Ask Alice: the Curious Case of 'Alice Donovan'," Counterpunch editor Jeffrey St. Clair responds with one of the most refreshingly blatant displays of cynicism we've seen in a while:

Let's say the writer had a "pro-Russian" bias. Does this matter? Every writer carries some kind of bias. Some big-time columnists and policy wonks have written with a bias toward torture and preemptive nuclear strikes. This writer's pieces don’t advocate hostilities with the US. Indeed, quite the opposite. If anything the stories show a bias against war and for peace, a bias which may be enough to raise suspicions in this attenuated environment.


Two points. The first sentence is a vile exercise in "Whataboutery." If big-time wonks defend torture and nuclear strikes, then it's OK for Counterpunch to run Kremlin propaganda, apparently. So much for the notion of the "alternative media" actually taking a higher standard than the dreaded "MSM," and actually providing an, um, alternative. No, instead the idea seems to be that if they can run sinister propaganda, so can we. (Russia, lest Counterpunch readers forget, also employs torture, and has a nuclear "first strike" policy.)

But, second point... Do the writings of "Donovan" actually show a "bias against war and for peace"? Let's take a look at the Counterpunch website and see. Oh wait, we can't. "Her" stories all seem to have been removed. But one, "US-led Coalition Airstrike On Assad's Forces Was Not Accidental," is replaced wth an "Editor's Note" stating that, "We have since determined that the article was actually written by Sophie Mangal, co-editor of Inside Syria Media. We apologize to Ms. Mangal for the mis-attribution." Review it at the Inside Syria Media site, and it is the typical trumpery for the genocidal dictatorship of Bashar Assad. After a completely misleading portrayal of the May 2017 air-strikes on Assad's forces (nobody had ever claimed they were "accidental"), Mangal concludes with a more serious distortion: "It is sheer cynicism to strike against those who really fight ISIS terrorists. But this doesn't come as a surprise either in Syria or in the world."

As we've had to point out in response to such malarky before, both Assad and ISIS are overwhelmingly fighting the Syrian opposition forces. Yes, they have also fought each other, but that is clearly a secondary priority for both of them! (Not to mention that Assad has abetted the rise of ISIS by buying their oil.)

So this is the kind of "bias against war" in what Donovan wrote (er, plagiarized) for Counterpunch? No thanks. Nothing is more sickening than pro-war "anti-war" jive.

Both Counterpunch and WaPo say that "Donovan" also wrote for the sinister-wacky Veterans Today, which is hardly surprising. But it is pretty hilarious to hear St. Clair dissing Veterans Today as "a cranky conspiracy site." His own Counterpunch has identically abysmal standards, even providing a soapbox for Bouthaina Shaaban, official public relations flack for the Assad regime. We've noted before the political overlap between Counterpunch and Veterans Today, both enamored of the paleocon right. The former still tries to maintain some pseudo-left creds, even as it has become reliably reactionary. We've been pointing this out for years, but we fail to see how anyone can now miss it.

One explanation for the blindness is the ingrained Russophilia on the "left," an ahistorical Cold War holdover. We can already hear the accusations that our headline referencing "Kremlin propaganda" is "red-baiting." How long can this illusion persist? Putin's Russia is today thoroughly capitalist and far closer to fascism than communism. Its state apparatus obviously connived in bringing our own wannabe fascist Trump to power. Wake up and smell the vodka. This persistent error among self-identified progressives points again to an emerging Red-Brown Politics—the incredibly dangerous notion of a left alliance with fascism.

Counterpunch is today a more pernicious exponent of the post-truth era than any of the "MSM" outlets we're all supposed to love to hate. Stop treating it as a legitimate source.
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Re: Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

Postby Jerky » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:36 pm

Oh my sweet Christ.

If this is how you really see what's going on over there, that explains a LOT.

Also, nice anti-trans cheap shot at the end there. Why even bring it up in this context?

J

Sounder » 28 Dec 2017 12:09 wrote:AD wrote...
prefer to speculate less about motivations and focus more on the facts on the ground,


Clearly we also see the facts differently. Fact is the US through sunni arab states, NED and CIA funded takfiri headchopers to destroy a country. Russia stopped that and have nearly ended the takfiri carnage. How many civilians have takfiris massacred? Now I am supposed to participate is the hate Russia campaign? are you mad?

e.g. this particular left pundit denies that Assad is responsible for a civilian massacre,


Is this the gas attack so many people talk about and put on Assad, even though it is well known that it is the takfiris that make and use gas?
despite the evidence that this is so, and/or other things of this nature.


It's a good thing that White Helmets and such provide discerning people with the material needed judge the viability of other product that matches up with the; hey we are the good guys narrative.

It leaves open the possibility that they sincerely believe in tankie style "anti-Imperialism" but also that there may be a financial interest hidden in there somewhere, too. When we have more evidence, we'll have more evidence.


See, it sentences like this that may lead some to think you are a bot. Is tankie a blanket ad hominem for those that oppose western Imperialism? Could it be that some see the flailing about of this collapsing empire as being dangerous to the lives and dignity of an extraordinary large number of human beings? Might our financial interest be something so simple as the realization that hate breeding is injurious to the common man while it enriches very rich (mostly white) men?

AD wrote....
Thanks for nothing. I am now going to go somewhere else and quietly scream.

Why, because 0-0 is a betrayer to the transgender uprising?
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Re: Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

Postby Sounder » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:17 pm

J wrote...
Oh my sweet Christ.

If this is how you really see what's going on over there, that explains a LOT.


You do do righteous outrage quite well.
Care to take a shot at anything specific that was written?
This maybe....
Clearly we also see the facts differently. Fact is the US through sunni arab states, NED and CIA funded takfiri headchopers to destroy a country. Russia stopped that and have nearly ended the takfiri carnage. How many civilians have takfiris massacred? Now I am supposed to participate is the hate Russia campaign? are you mad?

or this...
Is this the gas attack so many people talk about and put on Assad, even though it is well known that it is the takfiris that make and use gas?

or this...
It's a good thing that White Helmets and such provide discerning people with the material needed judge the viability of other product that matches up with the; hey we are the good guys narrative.

or this...
See, it sentences like this that may lead some to think you are a bot. Is tankie a blanket ad hominem for those that oppose western Imperialism? Could it be that some see the flailing about of this collapsing empire as being dangerous to the lives and dignity of an extraordinary large number of human beings? Might our financial interest be something so simple as the realization that hate breeding is injurious to the common man while it enriches very rich (mostly white) men?

or this...
Why, because 0-0 is a betrayer to the transgender uprising?
Go ahead, try again.

Also, nice anti-trans cheap shot at the end there. Why even bring it up in this context?


You do see others as ugly humans don't you Jerky? Why do you see an anti-trans cheap shot?

As it happens 0-0 is the only trans person that actively participates at RI. I value the opinions of 0-0 more than I value the productions of a certain trans-activist. It was a joke for those that pay attention.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:47 pm

POLITICS
FEB 7 2018, 5:01 PM ET
Russians penetrated U.S. voter systems, says top U.S. official
by CYNTHIA MCFADDEN, WILLIAM M. ARKIN and KEVIN MONAHAN

The U.S. official in charge of protecting American elections from hacking says the Russians successfully penetrated the voter registration rolls of several U.S. states prior to the 2016 presidential election.

In an exclusive interview with NBC News, Jeanette Manfra, the head of cybersecurity at the Department of Homeland Security, said she couldn't talk about classified information publicly, but in 2016, "We saw a targeting of 21 states and an exceptionally small number of them were actually successfully penetrated."

DHS cybersecurity head: 'No doubt' Russians penetrated voter registration systems


Jeh Johnson, who was DHS secretary during the Russian intrusions, said, "2016 was a wake-up call and now it's incumbent upon states and the Feds to do something about it before our democracy is attacked again."

"We were able to determine that the scanning and probing of voter registration databases was coming from the Russian government."

NBC News reported in Sept. 2016 that more than 20 states had been targeted by the Russians.


Homeland Security Undersecretary Jeanette Manfra testifies during a hearing before the Senate (Select) Intelligence Committee on June 21, 2017 on Capitol Hill in Washington. Alex Wong / Getty Images file
There is no evidence that any of the registration rolls were altered in any fashion, according to U.S. officials.

In a new NBC News/SurveyMonkey poll, 79 percent of the respondents said they were somewhat or very concerned that the country's voting system might be vulnerable to computer hackers.

In January 2017, just weeks before leaving his post, Johnson declared the nation's electoral systems part of the nation's federally protected "critical infrastructure," a designation that applies to entities like the power grid that could be attacked. It made protecting the electoral systems an official duty of DHS.

But Johnson told NBC News he is now worried that since the 2016 election a lot of states have done little to nothing "to actually harden their cybersecurity."

Manfra said she didn't agree with Johnson's assessment. "I would say they have all taken it seriously."

NBC News reached out to the 21 states that were targeted. Five states, including Texas and California, said they were never attacked.

Manfra said she stands by the list, but also called it a "snapshot in time with the visibility that the department had at that time."

Image: Homeland Security Chief Jeh Johnson prepares to testify
Homeland Security Chief Jeh Johnson prepares to testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee on oversight of the Department of Homeland Security, on June 30, 2016 in Washington. Allison Shelley / Getty Images file
Many of the states complained the federal government did not provide specific threat details, saying that information was classified and state officials did not have proper clearances. Manfra told us those clearances are now being processed

Other states that NBC contacted said they were still waiting for cybersecurity help from the federal government. Manfra said there was no waiting list and that DHS will get to everyone.

Some state officials had opposed Johnson's designation of electoral systems as critical infrastructure, viewing it a federal intrusion. Johnson said that any state officials who don't believe the federal government should be providing help are being "naïve" and "irresponsible to the people that [they're] supposed to serve."
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/electi ... -s-n845721
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

Postby Elvis » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:36 pm

This is getting nuts. Here is an actual Newsweek headline:

Did Russia Kill a U.S. President?

http://www.newsweek.com/cia-releases-se ... ion-642486
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Re: Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

Postby Burnt Hill » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:55 pm

Elvis wrote:This is getting nuts.

I get it but this is from last year.
Times moving way too fast.
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Re: Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

Postby Elvis » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:16 pm

Burnt Hill » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:55 pm wrote:
Elvis wrote:This is getting nuts.

I get it but this is from last year.
Times moving way too fast.


Okay, change that to: "This is nuts."

It's mainly just another example of stirring hysteria against the designated villian. Thankfully the American people are to smart to fall for it. Right? Right?

:tongout
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Re: Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

Postby Burnt Hill » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:47 pm

I am not seeing any hysteria in the folks I work and socialize with.

Russia is what Russia always has been, wouldn't put anything past them.

There is a generalized anxiety, ocassionally bordering on panic, but it is all Trump related.

I suppose Russia is inherently a part of that, but its just one more thing.
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Re: Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

Postby Elvis » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:54 pm

My point is, it's an hysterical headline.
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Re: Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

Postby Burnt Hill » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:50 am

Right, from July of last year.
Context matters.
Its an over the top interpretation of information from an actual document release
It really has nothing to do with current events, and doesn't pretend to.
Hyperbolic headlines get more clicks, we know that already.
Certainly Newsweek isn't what it used to be.
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Re: Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

Postby Elvis » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:19 pm

Burnt Hill » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:50 pm wrote:Right, from July of last year.
Context matters.
Its an over the top interpretation of information from an actual document release
It really has nothing to do with current events, and doesn't pretend to.
Hyperbolic headlines get more clicks, we know that already.
Certainly Newsweek isn't what it used to be.


July last year is not very long ago in the ramp-up of Russia fearmongering. Anyway, I respect your opinion,
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