How to Understand And Confront Holocaust Denial

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How to Understand And Confront Holocaust Denial

Postby American Dream » Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:06 pm

How to Understand And Confront Holocaust Denial

The idea of this leaflet is to present a general overview of the phenomenon of Holocaust denial and to help groups and individuals who want to be active against Holocaust denial in their communities to recognize the argumentations and tactics of the deniers.

The Holocaust is the term that generally describes the genocide of European Jews during World War II. Between 1941 and 1945, six million Jews were systematically murdered by the Nazis and their allies. Holocaust is unique in terms of its extraordinary scale and intensity. In regards to other groups which were persecuted and killed by the Nazis (e.g. Roma, Soviet soldiers and communists, disabled people, gays, Jehovah's Witnesses), some scholars include them in the definition of the Holocaust, but some others define it only as a genocide of Jews. The phenomenon of Holocaust denial is mainly associated with the Jewish Holocaust.

Holocaust denial (or "negationism") is the most extreme form of so-called "historical revisionism" as regards World War II. Soon after the War there were the first attempts to deny the fact of the Holocaust. The phenomenon of Holocaust denial won some popularity especially among former supporters and participants of the Nazi regime and European collaborationist movements who refused to accept responsibility for the crimes of genocide by denying them. Holocaust denial was as a set of historical claims presenting the Nazi regime in a favourable light. It was created as a result of certain political needs of neo-Nazi movements.

Nevertheless, Holocaust denial as a phenomenon has developed and received much more attention since the 1990s when it become more widespread and sophisticated. Arguably, two aspects are crucial here. One is the gradual disappearance of the generation of witnesses of Nazi crimes. Second one is the collapse of the communist regimes in Central and Eastern Europe and the international tendency to re-write those parts of history that were previously suppressed or manipulated by them. Some Holocaust deniers use this context in order to pose as 'independent' researchers who uncover some hitherto hidden aspects of history.

The general aim of the Holocaust denial is to challenge and ridicule the history of Jewish suffering during the war. The deniers want to rehabilitate fascism by denying its past. Holocaust denial is the most extreme form of antisemitism and it shows how the system of antisemitic thought functions. Holocaust denial is therefore a result of classical antisemitism. As Ken Stern writes in his book Antisemitism Today, "Holocaust denial is about Jews, not about Holocaust" (2006).


CONTENTS

1. WHAT ARE THE MAIN CLAIMS OF HOLOCAUST DENIAL?

2. WHO ARE THE MAIN EXPONENTS OF HOLOCAUST DENIAL?

3. INTERNATIONALIZATION OF HOLOCAUST DENIAL:
THE CASE OF EASTERN EUROPE

4. LEGAL AND ACADEMIC RESPONSES TO HOLOCAUST DENIAL

5. RELEVANT CONTACTS AND USEFUL WEBSITES

6. AN INITIATIVE OF UNITED AGAINST RIGHT-WING EXTREMISM




1. WHAT ARE THE MAIN CLAIMS OF HOLOCAUST DENIAL?

The international movement of Holocaust denial uses several strategies and lines of argumentation. They use a range of tactics, from outright denial of facts of the Nazi genocide to various forms of minimalization and trivialization of the Nazi crimes.

The first, most extreme, strategy is explicitly denying the facts of the genocide of the Jewish people, which according to the deniers simply never took place and is a wholly fabricated story, which in their opinion was invented in the interests of the state of Israel and the international Jewish conspiracy. In particular, all evidence of killing people in gas chambers is disputed by the deniers. Of course, such extreme claims of the Holocaust deniers are easily defeated, simply by quoting the numerous testimonies of survivors and witnesses of the Holocaust. For this reason, the revisionists pay some attention to challenging the survivors' accounts, accusing them all of being motivated by self-interest or falsified. Similarly, a number of Holocaust deniers invested some energy into claiming the famous diary of Anne Frank is false and it was allegedly written after the war.

When they cannot refuse to admit that Jews and other victims of Nazism did die during World War II, the revisionists argue that the number of people killed was in fact much smaller than generally thought. Reports of atrocities and mass killing are considered exaggerated. They attempt to minimize the amount of suffering and destruction which resulted from Nazi policies in Europe, claiming the causalities were simply results of armed conflict and diseases, and not of an intentional policy of genocide conducted by Hitler and his allies.

Finally, in order to trivialise and relativize the Nazi crimes, the revisionists try to give them a kind of justification by claiming that Nazi brutality was not worse than alleged atrocities committed by the other side during World War II, the Allied bombing of Germany, especially of Dresden, being mainly exploited for this purpose (members of regional parliament of the rightwing extremist National Democratic Party of Germany even applied the term "bombing holocaust" when referring to the Allied bombing of Dresden).

The revisionists like to cite examples of other events in world history to show that brutality is "normal" throughout ages and the Nazis should not be blamed for using harsh methods. They often mention the crimes of communism and argue that the crimes of fascism were not unique and in some ways Hitler's war could be seen as defence of European values against communism.

Holocaust denial comes in a variety of forms, however it is often more implicit than explicit. Subtle forms of Holocaust denial can also appear through discursive methods such as quotation marks, usage of the words 'claim', 'allege' etc. Today when outright denial is hardly credible, subtle means become more common practice.




2. WHO ARE THE MAIN EXPONENTS OF HOLOCAUST DENIAL?
The first Holocaust deniers were Nazis themselves. Today Holocaust denial is promoted by a small but internationally connected group of amateur historians and political activists. The international Holocaust denial movement has some leading figures such as David Irving in Great Britain, David Duke and Arthur Butz in the United States, Robert Faurisson in France, Ernst Zündel in Canada. They differ in the focus of their revisionist agenda, but what they share is a clear antisemitic political outlook, based on the desire to rehabilitate fascism and to promote the fight against a 'global Jewish conspiracy'.

Holocaust denial is strongly linked with antisemitism. As there is no universally agreed definition of antisemitism, it is appropriate to present here the definition, which will fit to our understanding of the term in the context of the Holocaust denial phenomenon:

Antisemitism is hatred toward Jews and is directed toward the Jewish religion, Jews as a people, or, more recently, the Jewish state. Antisemitism frequently charges Jews with conspiring to harm non-Jews and is often used to give an explanation for why things go wrong. It is expressed in speech, writing, visual forms, and action, and regularly employs stereotypes.
source: Stern, Kenneth. 2006. Antisemitism Today: How It Is the Same, How It Is Different, and How to Fight it: American Jewish Committee


The majority of known Holocaust deniers have strong connections with political movements whose agendas are antidemocratic. A leading example is David Irving who has been described by a British court as a "Holocaust denier who associates with rightwing extremists promoting neo-Nazism". Other examples of known Holocaust deniers linked with political organizations include Nick Griffin, the leader of the extreme-right British National Party as well as David Duke, a former leader of the Ku-Klux-Klan. It is clear that Holocaust denial here is just an element of a much broader political programme directed against minorities and against democracy as such.

Not all Holocaust deniers are rightwing extremists. Some, like French philosopher Roger Garaudy used to be connected with the far left but gradually adopted an antisemitic conspiracy-obsessed outlook.

The Holocaust deniers are generally excluded and condemned by the mainstream historians and the general scholar community. That includes David Irving who used to be the most 'respectable' of the revisionists. He lost a widely-reported court case against his critic in London and was arrested and convicted for offending the Holocaust victims' memory in Austria.

Nevertheless, Holocaust denial occasionally appears to be influential outside the small circle associated with the above mentioned individuals. A series of speeches and statements of the president of Iran Mahmoud Ahmadinejad who repeatedly endorsed the claims of Holocaust deniers are the most significant examples. He simultaneously questioned the historical fact of the Holocaust and called for the destruction of the Jewish state. An international conference of Holocaust deniers took place in Teheran in December 2006. It further illustrated the official interest of the Iranian government in the issue of Holocaust denial.

Holocaust denial appears in a 'scientific' form in order to be taken seriously. First of all Holocaust deniers try to portray the fact of the Holocaust as debated and discussed. Then they try to pose themselves as respectable conservative historians and try to show that they possess academic qualifications and scientific knowledge (for example, as the Institute for Historical Review does in California). For Holocaust deniers the most important goal is to be recognized as credible and reasonable historians.

The texts of many Holocaust deniers often include a large number of footnotes and scientific vocabulary in order to appear respectable. In this way the Holocaust denial tries to enter academic discourse. Academic titles are used by Holocaust deniers whenever it possible. Even though they are not in the field of history (for example, a leading denier Arthur Butz is a professor of Electrical Engineering and Robert Faurisson is a retired professor of literature). The largest Holocaust denial pseudo-academic institution is Institute for Historical Review based in United States. It paid a special attention to the quasi-academic form of its publications and conferences. The private Ukrainian university Interregional Academy of Personnel Management (MAUP) is another quasi-academic institution which has promoted Holocaust denial.




3. INTERNATIONALIZATION OF HOLOCAUST DENIAL: THE CASE OF EASTERN EUROPE
Since the 1990s Holocaust denial has appeared in Eastern Europe, too. In some of the Eastern European countries it especially fell on fertile ground. And, while in the West the deniers of the Holocaust are considered to be marginal figures, in Eastern Europe they sometimes have access to the mainstream public life.

The Eastern European societies are struggling to come to terms with their own past, and to find new expressions of national collective memory. The arguments of Holocaust "revisionism" help them to deal with feelings of guilt for their own role during the Holocaust. As in Michael Verhoeven's film "Nasty Girl", the culture of denial can be dominant, especially in smaller, local communities. Those who want to uncover the inconvenient facts are labelled as "troublemakers".

Deborah Lipstadt describes the post-Communist growth of the Holocaust denial in Eastern Europe as an unavoidable phenomenon brought by the mixture of "extreme nationalism" and "traditional antisemitic populism". She writes, "it is likely that as Eastern Europe is increasingly beset by nationalist and internal rivalries, ethnic and political groups that collaborated in the annihilation of the Jews will fall back on ... strategy of minimization" (Lipstadt, D. 1993. Denying the Holocaust. The Growing Assault on Truth and Memory: The Vidal Sassoon International Center for the Study of Antisemitism). In Eastern Europe the 'revisionist' approaches to the Holocaust seem to be subordinated to the idea of 'nation' and 'nation' itself is imagined to be much closer to the 'ethnic' than to the 'civic' ideal type.

Through eliminating the Holocaust from collective memory the home-grown revisionists want to re-write the national history. It is clear in the example of two neighbouring countries in Eastern Europe, Romania and Moldova, where the culture of the Holocaust denial occupies an influential position in the discourse of academic history and among a certain part of national socio-political elites. To some extent the phenomenon of Holocaust denial replaces the former Communist and Soviet paradigm of national history. A lack of knowledge about the Holocaust among the wider public makes the task of the revisionists easier.

Israeli scholar Michael Shafir defines three forms of the Holocaust denial in Eastern Europe: "outright", "deflective" and "selective" negationism. Outright denying the existence of the Holocaust is rare but not insignificant in Eastern Europe. It is supported by extreme nationalism and antisemitism and, it is expressed mainly by politicians. Usually outright deniers have strong links with Western negationist movement and literature. Most of Holocaust denying literature in Eastern Europe and/or its argument are in fact imported from Western Europe or North America. Holocaust denial is "imported", i.e. copied from the discursive strategies of international deniers rather than an original home-grown phenomenon.

For example, the main Holocaust denial protagonists in Romania Ion Coja and Radu Theodoru are supported by the French Holocaust denier Robert Faurisson. Or, the former leader of Slovak National Unity Party Stanislav Panis in his interview for the Norwegian television in 1992 said that "it would be 'technically impossible' for the Nazis to exterminate six million Jews in camps". This is an exact thought of the French antisemite Robert Faurisson. In Romania, the leader of the Greater Romania Party Tudor Vadim in 1994 said that he was informed that "English and American scientists are contesting the Holocaust itself, providing documentation and logical arguments proving that the Germans could not gas six million Jews, this being technically and physically impossible"
source: Shafir, M. 2002. Between Denial and "Comparative Trivialization".
Holocaust Negationism in Post-Communist East Central Europe:
Vidal Sassoon International Center for the Study of Antisemitism


While outright denial rejects the existence of the Holocaust, the phenomenon of deflective negationism is focused on the historical enemies or national minorities. Here deniers use strategies such as accusation of others or transfer of the charge to others (it is German responsibility for the Holocaust and extermination of the Jews), defence and positive self-presentation, trivialisation and mitigation of the seriousness of others' negative behaviour and justifications. Deflective negationism is present, for example, in Hungary in the form of 'transforming' the country allied with the Nazis into a victim of Germans.

Very often Holocaust deniers transfer the charge to Jews themselves. Thus, for example, Paul Goma, a France-based historian of Basarabian roots, published a book "Red week: 28 June - 3 July 1940, or Jews and Bessarabia" which distorts the Holocaust by manipulating the history of Soviet rule in Basarabia in 1940-41, claiming that the massacres of Jews were 'merely' a reaction to Jewish support for the Soviet regime and to the anti-Nazi partisans during the war. He also tries to prove that the Jews themselves were to blame for their own extermination on the territory of the Romanian protectorates of Basarabia (now Moldova), Bucovina, Transnistria, and the South of Ukraine. The Jews - a "fifth column" - were in fact a mean mercenary tribe - robbers, thieves, criminals, and Soviet agents who turned in Romanian patriots and desecrated churches. He blames the Jews, labelling them as "communists", "spies", partisans" etc.
source: "Moldova" Annual Report 2003/2004, Stephen Roth Inst. for the Study of Contemporary Antisemitism & Racism


The third form of Holocaust denial which is spread in Eastern Europe is selective negationism. It does not deny the Holocaust as having taken place elsewhere, but excludes any participation of members of one's own nation. The characteristic example here is justification of crimes of Romanian dictator Antonescu and his army during World War II. For example, Gheorge Buzatu, a nationalistic Romanian scholar says, "there has been no Holocaust in Romania during World War II", with the exception of Hungary-occupied Transylvania
source: Shafir, M. 2002. Between Denial and "Comparative Trivialization"


Dealing with the facts of the killing in Eastern Europe, the deniers resort to distortion of facts and statistics. For example they are using the fact the killing often took place on the spot, the victims were not transported to death camps, the killing was largely 'spontaneous' and therefore there is no archive documentation which can be comparable with the careful archivization of the genocide by the German Nazis in the extermination camps. However, as Elie Wiesel writes "While there were no gas chambers in Transnistria, everything else was there: not one community was spared; all were decimated". According to Wiesel, these were "crimes which, in a sense, were 'more cruel' but more savage for being less structured in their brutality than those of the Germans"
quoted in: Ioanid, Radu. 2000. Holocaust in Romania. Destruction of Jews & Gypsies Under Antonescu Regime, 1940-1944


http://www.unitedagainstracism.org/pages/thema02.htm
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Re: How to Understand And Confront Holocaust Denial

Postby Karmamatterz » Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:05 am

My first thought when I saw the title of the thread was "which holocaust?"

I wasn't even thinking the Jewish holocaust before and during WWII. There are so many to choose from. When discussing with teens theses days this topic I always ask them which holocaust do you mean. Seems the only one they are taught in schools is the Jewish, completely ignoring other genocide,especially that of Native Americans.

Is it fair to say there is deeper denial against people from our own land (U.S)?
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Re: How to Understand And Confront Holocaust Denial

Postby American Dream » Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:20 am

Karmamatterz » Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:05 am wrote:My first thought when I saw the title of the thread was "which holocaust?"

I wasn't even thinking the Jewish holocaust before and during WWII. There are so many to choose from. When discussing teens theses days this topic I always ask them which holocaust do you mean. Seems the only one they are taught in schools is the Jewish, completely ignoring other genocide,especially that of Native Americans.

Is it fair to say there is deeper denial against people from our own land (U.S)?


It seems that we should be heading towards a theory and practice of total liberation. This means expanding our compassion, expanding our (rigorous) political analysis, expanding our concrete strategies for getting to the root of the problem and acting effectively to advance the struggle, to make things definiitvely better.

Settler Colonialism, Authority, Institutional Racism, Fascism, Neo-Liberalism, Hegemony, Imperialism, Neo-Colonialism, Patriarchy etc. etc. should be part of our daily language and we should know what these words actually mean.
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Re: How to Understand And Confront Holocaust Denial

Postby seemslikeadream » Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:12 am

Karmamatterz » Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:05 am wrote:My first thought when I saw the title of the thread was "which holocaust?"

I wasn't even thinking the Jewish holocaust before and during WWII. There are so many to choose from. When discussing teens theses days this topic I always ask them which holocaust do you mean. Seems the only one they are taught in schools is the Jewish, completely ignoring other genocide,especially that of Native Americans.

Is it fair to say there is deeper denial against people from our own land (U.S)?



Thank you so very much....my thoughts exactly and I am forever jealous that my peoples holocaust is NEVER even mentioned in schools...never taught in schools ...just like so many others ....their ancestors lives are forever forgotten if they are not handed down from family members what those who came before struggled with ...we Irish don't even get the correct name for our holocaust...we get a watered down potato label so no one ever realizes what happened to our people... how would you AD like it if we all called your holocaust The Great Oxygen Famine of 1939

because as we all know there was only one true holocaust that has the privilege of being the only one denied...the only one that gets the press...the only one people should be outraged about...ONE TRUE HOLOCAUST THAT GETS RI FRONT PAGE NOTICE EVERY DAY FOR SIX YEARS NOW ...FUCKIN PUT A STICKY ON IT AND GET IT OVER WITH

NEVER FORGET.... AD SAYS NEVER AGAIN....we say that too...but it did happen again to his people....but they weren't the first and they won't be the last..

where was AD's people when it was happening to mine? Did they forget? Did they not know what was happening to my people? Oh but we must forgive them for their amnesia ...but they forgot/denied mine


the only reason I bring this up is because it is as important to me as AD's holocaust denial is to him...but he must realize we all live with the denial...we ALL lost so much....


and AD must realize our long suffering also...how our families lost so much...how our families lost their land...their family members

when he goes on and on about his holocaust denial ..it is like a slap in the face to me and I react the only way I know how to...by trying to get though to AD ...YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY ONE THAT THIS SUBJECT IS IMPORTANT TO....

BUT WE DO NOT BRING IT UP SO AN OP ABOUT IT IS ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THIS BOARD PERPETUALLY FOR OVER 6 YEARS NOW

have mercy on our souls and give it a rest AD...every single member of this board admits your holocaust denial is real.... stop preaching to the choir....shoving it in our faces constantly

if I did that here with my own holocaust I would not have lasted a year here but YOU GET AWAY WITH IT FOR YEARS AND YEARS...WHY IS THAT? WHY IS IT THAT YOU GET SPECIAL PRIVILEGES HERE...WHY DO YOU GET A FREE SPAM PASS?

Is it fair to say there is deeper denial against people from our own land (U.S)?


yes ...it is deeper and we are all going to pay the price for our own participation/denial someday
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: How to Understand And Confront Holocaust Denial

Postby American Dream » Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:25 am

It's truly nothing personal- with all the implications that phrase brings. It's so much bigger than an individual identity issue. We live in social systems- and this makes all the difference...

American Dream » Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:20 am wrote:
Settler Colonialism, Authority, Institutional Racism, Fascism, Neo-Liberalism, Hegemony, Imperialism, Neo-Colonialism, Patriarchy etc. etc. should be part of our daily language and we should know what these words actually mean.
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Re: How to Understand And Confront Holocaust Denial

Postby seemslikeadream » Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:28 am

American Dream » Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:25 am wrote:[size=101]It's truly nothing personal- ]


YES IT IS ...IT IS EXTREMELY PERSONAL AND YOU ARE GUILTY AS CHARGED


PUT A STICKY ON IT.....or up it
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: How to Understand And Confront Holocaust Denial

Postby minime » Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:56 am

I might add that our dreams have turned nightmare.

To further cross-pollinate...

As a 'rhino' myself I want to mention in passing the most pernicious, the most sinister holocaust of all... Cutting across gender, race, creed, nationality--cutting across axes--beyond the bound of all reason, perpetrated by the gauche against the gauche and for millennia, the source of more brutality and disfigurement and death than Jew and Irish combined, such that both can only look on with envy at the wanton suffering.

I kid you not. And I demand an apology.
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Re: How to Understand And Confront Holocaust Denial

Postby seemslikeadream » Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:29 am

minime » Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:56 am wrote:I might add that our dreams have turned nightmare.

To further cross-pollinate...

As a 'rhino' myself I want to mention in passing the most pernicious, the most sinister holocaust of all... Cutting across gender, race, creed, nationality, beyond the bound of all reason, perpetrated by the gauche against the gauche and for millennia, the source of more brutality and disfigurement and death than Jew and Irish combined, such that both can only look on with envy at the wanton suffering.

I kid you not. And I demand an apology.



I apologize

but AD did not/does not care about anyone else's holocaust ...he is only interested in the one true only holocaust ...the one true denial ...he shows HIS DENIAL by the very simple title of his OP

He is in fact a holocaust denier...I told you AD you are what you perceive
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: How to Understand And Confront Holocaust Denial

Postby jakell » Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:48 pm

Karmamatterz » Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:05 pm wrote:My first thought when I saw the title of the thread was "which holocaust?"

I wasn't even thinking the Jewish holocaust before and during WWII. There are so many to choose from. When discussing with teens theses days this topic I always ask them which holocaust do you mean. Seems the only one they are taught in schools is the Jewish, completely ignoring other genocide,especially that of Native Americans.

Is it fair to say there is deeper denial against people from our own land (U.S)?


There is only one genocide that has really been termed 'The Holocaust' . This is historical, documented and unambiguous, therefore it is quite clear 'which holocaust' is being discussed. (the word 'the' is a bit of a giveaway)

This is a fudging question, that although entering the mainstream through repitition still seems disingenuous to me. Spend some time talking to neo nazis and white supremacists (deniers in other words) and you will also realise that this is one of their main gambits that unfortunately some other 'cerebral types' seem to think is clever.
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Re: How to Understand And Confront Holocaust Denial

Postby American Dream » Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:56 pm

Also there are 164 pages of information on the Economic Aspects of "Love" thread which describe some of the depth and the breadth of the social pathology supporting Ethnic Cleansing, Genocide and other such Human Rights abuses- including in Palestine/Israel but going far, far beyond it.

It's all wrong, and this has been my consistent position over the years.
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Re: How to Understand And Confront Holocaust Denial

Postby seemslikeadream » Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:27 pm

oh that thread that no one else posts in....the one that is buried...off the radar in the lost boys section of RI...the one that you believe gives you cover for your holocaust denying threads in GD?

contrary to you obsessive compulsive spamming of the GD with your Holocaust denying multiple threads and continuing disruptive DI posts in threads that have nothing to do with DI?

maybe you should consider posting all your holocaust denying threads there as well...why not?
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They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: How to Understand And Confront Holocaust Denial

Postby minime » Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:41 pm

jakell » Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:48 am wrote:
Karmamatterz » Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:05 pm wrote:My first thought when I saw the title of the thread was "which holocaust?"

I wasn't even thinking the Jewish holocaust before and during WWII. There are so many to choose from. When discussing with teens theses days this topic I always ask them which holocaust do you mean. Seems the only one they are taught in schools is the Jewish, completely ignoring other genocide,especially that of Native Americans.

Is it fair to say there is deeper denial against people from our own land (U.S)?


There is only one genocide that has really been termed 'The Holocaust' . This is historical, documented and unambiguous, therefore it is quite clear 'which holocaust' is being discussed. (the word 'the' is a bit of a giveaway)

This is a fudging question, that although entering the mainstream through repitition still seems disingenuous to me. Spend some time talking to neo nazis and white supremacists (deniers in other words) and you will also realise that this is one of their main gambits that unfortunately some other 'cerebral types' seem to think is clever.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

The term holocaust comes from the Greek word holókauston, referring to an animal sacrifice offered to a god in which the whole (olos) animal is completely burnt (kaustos).[13] For hundreds of years, the word "holocaust" was used in English to denote great massacres.

Some scholars argue that the mass murder of the Romani and people with disabilities should be included in the definition,[7] and some use the common noun "holocaust" to describe other Nazi mass murders, including those of Soviet prisoners of war, Polish and Soviet civilians, and homosexuals.[8][9] Recent estimates, based on figures obtained since the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991, indicate some ten to eleven million civilians and prisoners of war were intentionally murdered by the Nazi regime.

The television mini-series Holocaust is credited with introducing the term into common parlance after 1978.


The bigger picture here, as AD points out, is man's inhumanity to man, not only man's inhumanity to Jews. In my opinion AD's attention to the Jewish Holocaust, which began long before 1933, may be due to his heritage, as well as the denial. Quite understandable.

That he seems to be monomaniacal about it at times is just our cross to bear.
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Re: How to Understand And Confront Holocaust Denial

Postby slimmouse » Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:45 pm

There is only one genocide that has really been termed 'The Holocaust' . This is historical, documented and unambiguous, therefore it is quite clear 'which holocaust' is being discussed. (the word 'the' is a bit of a giveaway)


Well, who dare argue with that ? Theres only ever been one holocaust, and somewhere down the road, It built itself its own industry if I remember correctly. At least according to one scholar.
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Re: How to Understand And Confront Holocaust Denial

Postby jakell » Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:45 pm

seemslikeadream » Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:27 pm wrote:oh that thread that no one else posts in....the one that is buried...off the radar in the lost boys section of RI...the one that you believe gives you cover for your holocaust denying threads in GD?

contrary to you obsessive compulsive spamming of the GD with your Holocaust denying multiple threads and continuing disruptive DI posts in threads that have nothing to do with DI?

maybe you should consider posting all your holocaust denying threads there as well...why not?


Is AD a holocaust Denier then?

By this I mean the specific event that has been given that name over the last fifty years or so, and is pretty universally recognised as having that label. It also seems to be the intended subject of this thread.
In other words, I'm not using the terms holocaust and genocide interchangeably, which seems to an increasingly popular pastime lately.
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Re: How to Understand And Confront Holocaust Denial

Postby seemslikeadream » Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:47 pm

one holocaust ...one denial ...that's the intention of the OP


and that is AD's denial of any other holocaust

we all have our own holocausts but we don't spam RI with them
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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