William Dudley Pelley, International Fascism & Sirius

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Re: William Dudley Pelley, International Fascism & Sirius

Postby American Dream » Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:30 pm

Most of them were happy fools, teetering on the edge of the abyss. Whatever forces compromised this one or that one, I wouldn't per se begrudge them their chance to have some fun and pursue enlightenment, make money, get laid, whatever else.

That said, if alphabet soupies were making the labs hum, getting people strung out on crack or heroin, laughing while some went to jail meanwhile protecting others, then damn sure I want to know about it.



dada » Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:20 pm wrote:Strangely, for all my interest in these matters in the past, I've always had a natural aversion to McKenna, never bothered to familiarize myself with his work. I figure that was just my nine inner angels steering me away from a place I didn't need to go.

I'll answer the question with another question; And what if they did represent a sophisticated psyops agenda? Putting a big question mark on it. A big "so what?"

You know, questions, questions. Conspiracy to control your mind or conspiracy to make you happy, and is there a difference. Is it manipulative to introduce to you the subversive idea that your world view depends on your world view, which depends on your world view, Hagbardian logic.

Good questions, all good questions. To what end, though? I think it's giving any of these cats way too much credit to assume they had any idea what they were up to in the long run, whatever the short term agenda or agendas. Because where are we now? New game world. Leary's sacrament is a novelty item, whether he had something to do with that or it was in spite of him, does it even matter in the new game world.
Last edited by American Dream on Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: William Dudley Pelley, International Fascism & Sirius

Postby dada » Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:45 pm

But we do know about it. The answer is yes. Psychedelic scorched earth policy.

And yes, Leary was a quintuple agent. Willing dupe for the man, and playing the players. Innocent scientist filled with childlike wonder, and Maslow control team commander. Pioneering space alien posing as a traditional Irish rebel with a twinkle in his eye.

And so what, now, is my question. What can we do with this information in the new game world we find ourselves thrust into, ready or not.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: William Dudley Pelley, International Fascism & Sirius

Postby American Dream » Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:57 pm

Yeah, good question. I just want to figure out how we got played, in hopes of preventing it happening again. The larger questions still remain and represent the most important concerns.

My own answer is that I was incredibly naive about how deep the ops can go, but then again I was very young and no one around me knew either.
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Re: William Dudley Pelley, International Fascism & Sirius

Postby American Dream » Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:42 pm

All that's left now is a researcher's question, spurred on by the Ragusa/Judo Gang/Dealer McDope revelations: After Frank Ragusa's murder in 1978, law enforcement stepped up to claim that this was one big tentacle of the Octopus: acid labs in multiple countries, drug operations sourcing many nations, multiple boats and smuggling routes, murders in Miami, etc.

So, was the San Francisco Bay Family essentially linked to "the Company", that vast spooky drug enterprise? Certainly East Coast USA Hippie Mafia like Richard Stratton (High Times editor and smuggler) were, as was Howard Marks (U.K.) So why not Jerry's kids?

I've said before that after Acid Dreams came out, I had a conversation with a venerable old trafficker after he got out of jail where I essentially said, "What about the CIA? Weren't they behind it all?" He stared at me about two seconds too long and averred, "Well if the CIA was involved, they sure had some good drugs". Punto. That may be as good as it gets but I was hoping for something better.
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Re: William Dudley Pelley, International Fascism & Sirius

Postby dada » Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:29 pm

So what are we saying here. West coast somehow got out from under cia. Well, what about mil int. Running San Diego, way down mexico way and beyond, and back up and around again to Miami. Japan mafia can be drug players in seventies Cali, certainly. China, too.

What else. law enforcement claim of octopus. More and more I see octopus as the big limited hangout go-to. Guns, drugs and finance problems bubbling up too close to the surface got you feeling stressed out? Time to call in the octopus.

Alright, but how will this help prevent... anything? Because we are getting played again, you know. The internet is drugs without the drugs, and the op goes pretty deep. Different kind of op, though. Similar in some ways, but different in others. Psychedelic drug is a tool, internet is a tool. Both used against us. Internet is more useful, I think, and I like the keyboard interface. Also has immense powers of distraction. Looks like one could easily waste an entire life on the internet, even better than tv. Walter Benjamin's neat idea that Technik liberated will be the rational voice of nature demanding ecological justice, and the deliverer of the goods to the poor, alternative to the Huxleyan-ordered, pacified society is incredibly alluring, attractive. Fascinating.

I still wonder if any of this will help. Discussing the lights and shadow players of the psychedelic counter-culture feels an awful lot to me like discussing Melania and Meghan. I know, I'm cynical. I don't think anything changes on the outside, anymore. Only inside, where the only fight worth fighting is to be found. And I'm glad about that, it's as it should be. In my opinion. But it isn't all about me. Maybe the discussion is cathartic and healing for the casual reader, what do I know.

Welcome to new game world, same as the old game world. Now with Sirius-shaped marshmallows.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: William Dudley Pelley, International Fascism & Sirius

Postby American Dream » Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:13 pm

It's hard to argue with what you're saying, dada. It's not particularly useful but then again neither is a great deal of the stuff in the conspiracy sphere. One of my personal myths concerns the fantasy that Timothy Leary told so well about the Robin Hood drug dealers who were gonna save the world with their magic potions, people who didn't care about money and were entirely selfless.

I love shocking myself with the truth of how it really was: that Owsley and Jerry and their chemist friends knew that significant portions of the Feds would support massive amounts of dealing and so they went along with it. Other people would get busted but maybe/probably not them. Bob Marley said, "Rasta don't work for no CIA" but he just smoked a lot of herb. I kinda like being horrified by the ugly truth.

Is it actually practical, helpful or whatever else? No not really, but let's face it, a big part of what goes on here is conspiratainment, no more, no less.
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Re: William Dudley Pelley, International Fascism & Sirius

Postby American Dream » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:41 am

Also, the historical question feels relevant in making sense of my world. I get the sense that there was a bit of a hiring spree going on at one time. Mostly the product of a free form recreational drug culture building its own market? I'm not so sure that explains it all.

My pet octopus tells me that there was an initiative to grow the infrastructure in North America made by military/intel types. I think that the Cowboys wanted their piece of the action- and probably had other agenda, as well. This would explain some of the "independent"- but still very connected- drug orgs that popped up. This has relevance to the lives of people I have known/will know. At least one died tragically as a result of their involvement. A few did serious time. Several more went on a downward spiral.

So maybe there's an element of geeking out on history there but it does feel important to me, personally. The idea of fascist/spook-friendly specialists seeding conspiracy culture seems self-evident but how deep does it go? That is perhaps the most "useful" question to be explored.
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Re: William Dudley Pelley, International Fascism & Sirius

Postby elfismiles » Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:44 am

American Dream » 30 Aug 2018 18:18 wrote:I should clarify that I'm not claiming that Terrence or R.A.W. (or Grimstad) are "bad"- i really don't know enough to say, even if the radar is always on, scanning the skies for threats. Their relative silence could relate to an involvement with Esalen, for example, not to mention every doper's desire not to get on the shitlist.

Michael A. Hoffman II is another story entirely- I've got no use for him.


American Dream » 30 Aug 2018 19:13 wrote:A possible point of connection between Robert Anton Wilson and Michael A. Hoffman II would be through the Caliphate of the Ordo Templi Orientis, where R.A.W. was affiliated with the Berkeley Lodge and Hoffman at least roomed with Tom Lyttle in Geneva N.Y., when Lyttle was acid taster for the East Coast branch affiliated with Herman Slater's Magickal Childe/Warlock Shoppe. That seems like pretty strange company for a self-professed "anti-Masonic" conspiracy interpreter to be keeping but maybe that's just me...


RE: Grimstad (aka Brandon) ... don't forget:

Saudi Agent, 'Antizion' Author, Says He Got $20,000
By Paul W. Valentine
May 31, 1978

A former editor for the American Nazi Party is registered with the Justice Department as an agent for the Saudi Arabian government and says he received $20,000 from the Saudis last June for an anti-Zionist book published two years ago.

William N. Grimstad says in registration papers filed Nov. 15 that he received the money as a "gift or honorarium apparently in appreciation" for his book, "Antizion." The book is a collection of anti-Zionist and anti-Jewish statements attributed to famous public figures throughout history ranging from Winston Churchill and Mark Twain to Napoleon and Cicero.

Grimstad was managing editor in the early 1970s of White Power, the bimonthly publication of the American Nazi Party, now the National Socialist White People's Party.

His book is dedicated to the late King Faisal of Saudi Arabia, described in the frontispiece as a "distinguished statemans and humanitarian who in this New Dark Age never lost insight into the hidden causes of world upheaval."

Several representatives of the Saudi embassy here, however, say they have never heard of Grimstad. They said they were unaware that he is officially registered as an agent for the Saudi government and know nothing of the $20,000 he claims he received.

"The embassy says it has had no contact with Mr. Grimstad," said Mark Helgeson of the Saudi Arabian Information Office.

Grimstad, reached by telephone at his home Geneva, N.Y., said he received the $20,000 unsolicited, by check last June. He said he registered as an agent of the Saudis five months later without notifying them, and that he registered as a legal precaution "because of receiving the money."

"The money came to me under very mysterious circumstances," he said. "I'm mystified by the whole thing."

He said in a letter after the telephone call that he now believes the money may have been planted by a "covert unit of Israeli Intelligence in a misguided effort to discredit the Saudis . . ." He said he came to this belief after receiving press inquiries triggred by disclosure of his Justice Department registration statement by the Anti-Defamation League, an element of the Jewish service organization B'nai B'dith that monitors anti-Jewish and anti-Zionist activities and individuals.

ADL general counsel Arnold Forster scoffed at Grimstad's speculation.

Grimstad "is known to us as a professional anti-Semite who has been affiliated with the most outrageous un-American operation in the political underground of our country," Forster said yesterday. "The lie he offers about the ADL being the source of his money is equaled only by its implausibility."

Grimstad refused to discuss details of how he received the $20,000."I have fairly firm indications of where it came from," he said, "but I'm not in a position to discuss it now."

In his sworn and notarized registration statement, he said he received a check for $20,000 from Saudi Arabia "through [the] embassy in Washington" last June. He said an "explanatory note" accompanying the check was in the form of a receipt, "which was endorsed by me and returned to the embassy."

Grimstad described himself in the registration statement as a writer and historian. On behalf of the Saudi government, he said, he planned to do 'historical research into all aspects of the Zionist colonial incursion into Palestine, aimed at inclusion in a screenplay or teleplay, to be produced for exhibition primarily to students."

Grimstad is one of 16 individuals and organizations, including several well-known public relations and law firms, registered as agents for the Saudis. Individuals or organizations doing publicity, legal work or lobbying for foreign countries are required by law to register with the Justice Department.

Grimstad says he now plans to "deregister" because of his doubts about the origin of the $20,000. A Justice Department spokesman said yesterday the foreign agents registration unit has not yet received a formal deregistration request.

The spokesman also said Grimstad's registreatration statement was vague and lacked copies of a contract or letter from the Saudis requesting Grimstad's services.

Grimstad's book, "Antizion," was published in 1976 by Noontide Press, a California publishing house run by Willis A. Carto, a well-known anti-Zionist and treasurer of the ultra conservative Liberty Lobby here. The book quotes several hundred famous historical figures, many of whom said international Jewry is embarked on a conspiracy to dominate the world.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/ ... baccdca7ff



elfismiles » 07 Aug 2008 14:35 wrote:
8bitagent wrote:
elfismiles wrote:

Are you familiar with Twilight Language? The Revelation of the Method? King Kill 33?


Yep. Too bad Michael Hoffman and Fritz Springmeier turned out to be hardcore white supremist Nazis.


As is William Grimstad, aka "Jay Brandon", author of the seminal Fortean Name Game books:

- The rebirth of Pan: Hidden faces of the American earth spirit
- Weird America: A Guide to Places of Mystery in the United States

... but he also wrote the below for the Saudi Royal Family who distributed 500 copies to British Parliament:

- Antizion: a Survey of Commentary on Orgainized Jewry By Leading Personalities Through the Ages
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Re: William Dudley Pelley, International Fascism & Sirius

Postby American Dream » Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:15 pm

I missed that completely about Grimstad. Thanks, Elfis!

The plot grows thicker...
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Re: William Dudley Pelley, International Fascism & Sirius

Postby American Dream » Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:06 pm

Grimstad's Nazi sympathies only serve to heighten my doubts about Robert Anton Wilson. Promoting characters like him, Michael Hoffman, Pauwels and Bergier (Nouvelle Droite types), as well as (I think) John Michell, Gary Allen, Nesta Helen Webster, Thor Heyerdahl etc., not to mention the left-handed monkey wrenches of the OTO Caliphate denotes very bad judgement, at best.

Maybe the concerns that he may have been Tim Leary's handler in that crucial time after the Doctor was released from jail, not to mention the speculation that he played a similar role for Kerry Thornley, need to be kept alive. This shit stands in stark contrast to what was going on in Berkeley CA at the time that Cosmic Trigger. Where was the left wing discourse? There was maybe a little, but not much at all.

There was MKULTRA research going back to the 50's and early 60's exploring the usefulness of LSD in promoting changes in world view. Could that have been relevant to his project? Certainly Berkeley in that era was a hotbed of COINTELPRO/MHCHAOS/MKULTRA. Questions, questions, I've got nothing but questions.
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Re: William Dudley Pelley, International Fascism & Sirius

Postby American Dream » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:06 pm

Ordo Templi Orientis Phenomenon
Proto-Fascist Elements in the O.T.O.


Image


Comments by Bryony Murds who edited above text

JH's comment "...consisting of the sum total of your observations, which nobody will accept as a workable definition" has some relevance. You frequently make reference to such 'keywords' (by which I assume you mean 'definitions') and yet they can be hard to pin down, either because they are defined in another piece of yours, or else you are assuming the reader has prior knowledge of them. I'm not suggesting that you start each essay with a dictionary definition like some lumpen-Rotarian giving a lunchtime talk — but I think it might be helpful if you provided a list of these definitions as a separate item on the website, or else descended to the expedient of a 'F[requently] A[sked] Q[uestions]' section like everybody else (I know an FAQ sounds horrible, but grit your teeth, dear chap!) Although you reject the 1970's fashion for accusations of fascism (with some justice — it became a kind of intellectual totalitarianism in itself) JH's point about the 'F-scale' is a valid one, at least in helping in providing a clear definition of totalitarian tendencies in the OTO. I suspect the 'F-scale' has now been superseded; I know that Amnesty International has devised a checklist for detecting totalitarian tendencies, and there is also a list for evaluating cults that I saw used very effectively on an anti-Scientology website. I think both of these would be useful in helping to tighten up your admittedly 'loose' initial thoughts.

I have altered your original comment about the TS teaching anti-Semitism, as (to the best of my knowledge) there is no evidence that they were any more or less anti-Semitic than anyone else at the time. The 'Root Race' business — which wasn't really HPB's idea, but a later accretion from the Leadbeater/Besant era — was certainly _implicitly_ racist, and was abused and distorted later in things like the Thule Gesellschaft &c., but it was a reflection of attitudes _then_, and should not really be adduced as evidence, except as a _precursor_ to current — and different — OTO bigotries.

Then there is the point about Thelemites as 'subjects', and non-Thelemites as 'objects'. Although I'm sure that JH's comments about ontological fields are right, you both seem to have missed out on an obvious source for such ideas in Nietzsche (even though JH later uses the word 'Übermensch'). I'm sure this could be developed in terms of comparisons with later misunderstandings and distortions of Nietzsche into mean-spirited stuff like Thatcherism or Reaganomics. It leads me to speculate why so many OTOites are ageing hippies (e.g. McMurtry, Breeze, Heidrick) who, having found peace and love a defective philosophy, did a _volte-face_ at some stage in the 1970's, and evolved into snaggle-toothed proponents of social Darwinism? They do seem to bear a generic resemblance to people like Abby Hoffman, don't they? How many of them voted Reagan into power? How many of them have read — not Darwin or Nietzsche, as they probably haven't got the brains for that — but things like Ayn Rand's crypto-fascist drivel? Perhaps this spirit also accounts for the increased interest in sado-masochism generally, and all these blood-and-sperm-soaked rituals among the Thelemites specifically? JH casts doubt on "Heidrick's treife kabalah". This is a trifle unjust, as any Qabalah to do with occultism is _ipso facto_ going to be 'treyf' (literally 'impure' or non-Kosher) to a presumably Jewish ex-yeshiva-bucher like JH. In GD terms, Heidrick did do some original and accurate work years ago, as in his 'Magical Correspondences'. It needs to be emphasised that there are two broad schools in Qabalah: historical Jewish mysticism as expounded by Gershom Scholem, and the Golden-Dawn inspired occult one as found in Dion Fortune - and almost never shall the twain meet, it appears.

The historical Jewish variety is very definitely a tradition, and has changed very little since the mid-19th century (hardly surprising, considering the havoc wrought on Judaism in Europe by pogroms and the Diaspora); presumably it was a version of this which JH found in his yeshiva when he was studying Torah — the Qabalah of 'gematria', 'temurah' and 'notariqon' used to interpret the odder bits of Hebrew in the Torah in some Jewish seminaries — which is what yeshivas are. On this side of the Qabalistic divide you _could_ include such aberrations as 'Ze'ev ben Shimon Halevi' (aka Warren Kenton, previously famous for his books on amateur dramatics) and his dreary plagiarised Gurdjieff masquerading as 'the way of kabbalah'; or the modish Hollywood cult of watered-down Baal Shem Tov that has attracted such great thinkers as Madonna, Jerry Hall and Roseanne - because they both nominally originate from Jews — but they are firmly in the occult camp, from what I can see.

On the occult side, Qabalah has blossomed in all sorts of un-Jewish ways, with much more emphasis on the Tree of Life, and still more on the Tree's paths, than is found in the Jewish tradition. Scholarship (of a sort) and accuracy are occasionally to be found, but mostly the occult Qabalah is — to be charitable — a creative, poetic exercise, where æsthetics matter as much as scholarship. Otherwise, why is there such emphasis on correspondances in occult Qabalah, where the Tree is populated with rainbows of colour, all manner of myths, deities, angels, spirits, and devils, perfumes, plants, minerals, astrology, and a welter of symbols — except as an essentially artistic form?

Enough of this excursus; JH mentions Dr. Rudd and faulty Hebrew, which is quite true — he was an 18th-century vicar who tried to transliterate the names of the spirits in the 'Goetia' grimoire into Hebrew, and made a complete hash of it, as the 'Goetia' is not of Hebrew origin. But even Mathers (in his MS. of the 'Goetia' which Crowley pinched and published) as a _fons et origo_ of occult Qabalah, said that Rudd was wrong; and Heidrick didn't use Rudd. As for 'Ayin' not sounding like 'O' — well, how 'Ayin' sounds (it's often called 'rough breath' and is classified as a 'vowel carrier' in Hebrew grammars) depends on which vowel-sign you put with it, or what other letters precede or follow, as is the case with any Hebrew written out in full. And of course, while written Hebrew is consistant, the same cannot be said of spoken Hebrew — even within the Sefardi and Ashkenazi dialects there are variations. The interpretations of 'ON' do not originate with either Thelema or the OTO, but come from Freemasonry, where the name of Solomon is expounded as SOL-OM-ON (SOL Latin for 'Sun', OM the Sanskrit 'Aum', and ON various obscure Near Eastern stuff). Therefore the 'Caliphate' are no better or worse than United Grand Lodge in perpetuating an 18th-century ætiological myth.

JH then proceeds to the 'Caliphate's' _ad hominem_ attempts at character-assassination; part of the problem is that they probably ARE as stupid as he seems to think. Intelligence has never been a real advantage in rising to the top of a cultic dung-heap, so the Kremlin-mouthpiece style of their public insults comes as no surprise, if one assumes that their spokesmen have an apparatchik's mentality. To look at this from another viewpoint, one should remember that bullies are usually compensating for being dimwitted - and what else is the 'Caliphate' doing both internally and externally, but trying to bully people?

Another reason they tend to offend us as Europeans could simply be the cultural differences; the UK and US are said to be 'divided by a common language', and I suspect the UK and Helvetia have far more in common with each other than they do with the USA — in terms of population-density and length of history if nothing else. The USA had as many German-speakers as English-speakers around the time of the War of Independence, and this Germanic quality still shows in some parts of the American character. It used to be said of Germans before WWI that they were 'either at your feet or at your throat'; an unfair generalisation about a whole nation, but one which certainly has some applicability to the 'Caliphate' — or Heidrick (how many other 'Caliphate' members are of German descent, I wonder?) JH's anecdote about "Thelemic scholarship" shows that the 'Caliphate' ignores both scientific methodology AND literary criticism.

Presumably by Thelemic scholarship the "high booboo" meant a kind of uncritical elaboration of symbolic connections in the Thelemic texts, which, while it might be æsthetically pleasing, is merely adding to an already overloaded body of supposed 'correspondences' which are largely self-referential and only internally consistent; rationally, this is as much use in the real world as Hubbard's Scientology texts, and is on the same exegetical level as the Jehovah's Witness interpretation of the Bible. Once again, they fear real creativity, because a proper analysis (scientific and literary) of Crowley and his writings would yield results that would upset their tightly-constrained _Weltanschauung_.

So of course they will try to stamp out any signs of empirical reasoning (I think empirical reasoning what what JH really meant); the 'Caliphate's' ideas are perforce fixed in stone because they are just as much a cult as the Branch Davidians, and reality must not interfere in their microcosm. If the 'Caliphate' ever do reject their Sisyphean ideology, and admit that Thelema is NOT a science, but a subjective religious philosophy with a limited application to essentially immature people, they might make themselves look a little less foolish. They refuse to admit that 'the man Crowley' did indeed have a very strong effect on 'Crowley the prophet', for if they applied even that tiny bit of common-sense, they would see that as a sociopathic and megalomaniac personality Crowley was bound to inflate his fundamentalist background and Reuss's obscure pseudo-Masonic sex club (to list just two factors) into apocalyptic prophecies of worldwide Thelemic social and sexual revolution. As one of Crowley's contemporaries said, 'thank Heavens he was never drawn to politics!'. But being part of an 'elect' who are in on the ground-floor of the revolution is always going to appeal more to the inadequates ripe for Thelema, than being an eccentric artistic fan-club...

I think that JH fails to make a sufficient distinction between art and science, but if he wants to be a "scientific illuminist", then good luck to him; I hope he realises that he's attempting something that's left the greatest minds since Goethe stumped! For myself, I doubt if the division between the 'two cultures' of science and art can ever be bridged satisfactorily. This shouldn't stop us trying to bridge it, but ultimately I fear it is destined to remain one of the great enigmas in human nature and culture.
Again, where JH refers to Thelemic "manipulation" of "terms", there is a valid comparison to be made with George Orwell's _Nineteen Eighty-Four_; specifically 'Newspeak' and 'doublethink'. (I've actually slipped a reference in to that, as it fits so well). Orwell's Ingsoc Party was of course supposed to be a political party, but as a totalitarian oligarchy it certainly displays characteristics found in modern exponents of Thelema — the deliberate alteration of the meaning of words, before those words are used in a restricted vocabulary that maintains internal consistency, but limits external applications. When JH talks of "'radiant' language, which refers to other things on closer examination", it makes me wonder what proportion of Thelemites have had any sort of higher education, and if they _have_ had higher education, what proportion of them studied an arts subject, where the critical faculties are trained? Not many, I'll bet. People who think they are scientists, or using scientific reasoning always make better fanatics.


...Crowley is of some value to occultists, but he is like the proverbial curate's egg — good in parts, and needs to be treated selectively and critically — one should never accept him at face-value. Take his poetry as an example: apart from some clever pastiches of Browning and Swinburne, and a rare poem elsewhere that is reasonably good, the whole vast corpus of his verse, which he promoted as a deathless masterwork, is almost entirely worthless. Yet true (if unconscious) poetry may be found in his 'inspired ' writings; it may not be to everybody's taste, but it is there nonetheless — not that Crowley would have realised it, since for him poems _had_ to rhyme and/or scan — to that extent he was thoroughly Victorian. He never realised that he was much better at writing prose than poetry. In that connection, his analyses of Buddhism are not without literary and esoteric value, and the language and form of some of his rituals has its own appeal; he was a competent pornographer, for those who take such things seriously enough to treat it as literature. But accept Thelema as a guiding philosophy of life — except in the most theoretical and rarefied sense — and you will inevitably be taking on Crowley the man, who is inseparable from Crowley the prophet, writer, and magician — whatever Messrs. Breeze, Heidrick or Grant might think. And Crowley the man was really far more 'mad, bad, and dangerous to know' than Byron ever was; to those who knew him in real life, he was someone who constantly cadged money, would try to seduce your wife or husband, rarely stayed in one place for more than a fortnight without starting a blazing row, was suspicious to the point of paranoia, was full of grandiloquent and impossible schemes, and was filthy in his personal habits — such as the famous incident where he shat in the corner of a friend's dining room, rather than ask where the lavatory was.
(There, is that enough to be going on with?)

This has set me to thinking why so many fringe (not just OTO) characters are so overwhelmingly obsessed with 'genuine' lines of succession — it can't just be to keep the Logos Spermatikos going, as there are so many other non-Gnostic groups with the same lust for 'authenticity' at any price, like the promoters of degree-mills, pseudo-aristocracies like the Carlists, or any one of the rogue schismatic offshoots of Mormonisn, the Seventh-Day Adventists, the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Worldwide Church of God (of 'Plain Truth/Echte Wahrheit' fame), Scientology, Theosophy, and so forth. I think that the likeliest explanation is probably the simplest one for this; it's a compensatory psychological prop for insecurity and a poor self-image. That surely accounts for part of the attraction of even 'regular' Masonry, with its long-winded titles and secrecy; bored businessmen get a kick out being called a Master, or the likes of a 'Prince of the Pregnant Puffin' in the higher degrees, I'm sure. And this sort of apostolic succession sometimes provides an excuse to dress up in fancy robes and play-act — again, an indication of a basic insecurity, as that could well be a comforting form of retrogression to childhood 'let's pretend' or 'dressing up' games. It's because they disguise this compensation and reversion by taking it so deadly seriously that it verges on a pathological or obsessive state. I'm not saying that it IS a pathological condition; as a benign form of exhibit ionism I think that most use this ability to pretend temporarily as a bit of fun, and admit it. I suspect more integrated people with such desires express it by becoming actors, or playing exotic games in the bedroom, rather than claiming copyright royalties that aren't theirs, eh?


http://www.parareligion.ch/sunrise/fasho.htm
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Re: William Dudley Pelley, International Fascism & Sirius

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:18 pm

American Dream » Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:12 pm wrote: Al Hubbard? Definitely spooky but serving which masters? George White?


Apologies if I'm mis-reading this, but: yes, I would assert that Al Hubbard was a spook who was part of George White's team.

Hubbard was OSS. Hubbard was brought to OSS from prison. I don't think it's nebulous at all.

Agent Orange Cooper » Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:06 pm wrote:
Wombaticus Rex » Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:51 pm wrote:Speaking of every doper's desire to appease the secret police, didn't McKenna basically cop to taking exactly that route into the counterculture at Esalen in the 90's?


No, he told a joke that he had been recruited by the mushroom in hyperspace and moved into public relations for its hyperdimensional agenda. People laughed. Then several decades later Jan Irvin, lacking a funny bone, took it out of context and turned it into fodder for his gullible flock to eat up.


Well, this has brought me back to the source and I'm still not convinced either way. Here's the actual talk:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj1yFZRmFsw

He takes a question at the four hour sixteen minute mark after a riff about the space program was Pentagon bullshit to "get into our genes and make intercontinental ballistic missiles." At 4:17:00 he's talking about how VR is escapism designed to keep us on this planet, and "the psychedelic community must produce art, not consume it." At 4:18:00 he's saying the psychedelic community should use VR to do it, since it's not constrained like capital. At 4:19:00 "It's literally like we are turning ourselves inside out, and this is an alchemical process." - advocates for putting psychedelic ideas into public consciousness for downloading. At 4:20:00 "This is it, this is the last possible moment." Then says it's time to end his talk, and the weekend went too fast.

04:21:00 "In terms of launching memes, I think those memes are pretty well launched ..." psychedelics in public consciousness, need to connect with nature. Then the question: "Real curious about one thing - why is it important for you to do this?"

"I wonder myself. You mean am I the alien ambassador whether I like it or not? [laughs]. Well, often when asked this question, I've said it beats honest work. I mean, my brother is a PhD in three subjects and works in hard science and yet I don't think it's brought him immense happiness. Not that he's despondent. But, uh, I was always kind of a slider, you know? And certainly when I reached La Chorerra in 1971 I had a price on my head by the FBI, I was running out of money, I was at the end of my rope. And then, uh, they recruited me and said, "you know, with a mouth like yours there's a place for you in our organization". And I've worked in deep background positions about which the bess - the less said the better. And then about 15 years ago they shifted me into public relations and I've been there to the present."


I really don't see how he is setting up, before or after, the notion that "They" are mushrooms. It's still a most curious aside. Mushrooms and their hyperdimensional agenda don't really have a causal means for getting the FBI off a dope smuggler's back.

Langley does, though.

As for everyone laughing, it was Esalen, they're all high as fuck and delighted to be there. And ten percent of them are spooks, too.
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Re: William Dudley Pelley, International Fascism & Sirius

Postby American Dream » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:31 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:18 pm wrote:
American Dream » Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:12 pm wrote: Al Hubbard? Definitely spooky but serving which masters? George White?


Apologies if I'm mis-reading this, but: yes, I would assert that Al Hubbard was a spook who was part of George White's team.

Hubbard was OSS. Hubbard was brought to OSS from prison. I don't think it's nebulous at all.


Yeah, not what I meant- I was unclear- but I certainly do agree that Hubbard and White were spooky as fuck. I love the delicious irony (at best) of George Hunter White ending up in the 70's as Fire Marshall in Stinson Beach with responsibility for Jerry Garcia's smokin' den of iniquity Sans Souci, at 18 Ave. Farralone. Also, I had forgotten that Hubbard came to the OSS from prison, so thanks for that.
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Re: William Dudley Pelley, International Fascism & Sirius

Postby Agent Orange Cooper » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:55 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:18 pm wrote:I really don't see how he is setting up, before or after, the notion that "They" are mushrooms. It's still a most curious aside. Mushrooms and their hyperdimensional agenda don't really have a causal means for getting the FBI off a dope smuggler's back.

Langley does, though.


Oh well I guess that proves it. :ohno:

Just curious, did you listen to the entire 5 1/2 hour talk for context or did you just queue it up to a few minutes before the famed 'admission'? Listened to much McKenna before? Context doesn't just mean the preceding 4 minutes of conversation - it's an entire career of writing and speaking being referenced. Because he had at this point spent like 15 years talking publicly about the DMT elves and Mushroom entity as being his guiding agency.

Only someone unfamiliar with his rap, and bringing an overly literal/absolutist mindset, plus a paranoia level only possible in the post-9/11 world would believe nonsense like what Irvin suggests - that he's secretly/openly outing himself as a CIA agent. Now *that's* funny.

Znore from Groupname for Grapejuice blog wrote the definitive piece in response to all this, imo.

http://groupnameforgrapejuice.blogspot. ... awn-1.html
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Re: William Dudley Pelley, International Fascism & Sirius

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:03 pm

Agent Orange Cooper » Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:55 pm wrote:Listened to much McKenna before?


I've been respectful to you, bud, c'mon now.
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