Ruppert died

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Re: Ruppert died

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:28 pm

This is very sad, but in no way a surprise. My friend Michael Ruppert, at times a teacher and at times a human wrecking ball, a consumed scholar who brought forth both clarity and panic, was known to all who knew him as a tortured soul who had engaged in sudden bursts of public self-destruction several times in the past. He signaled in many ways to the many who knew him, as well as in public, that he would one day end his life. This is not the first time he tried to do it and some of his public meltdowns in effect served to act it out. This is why those who knew him in person show no doubt about what has happened. My friend Jenna Orkin knew him far better than I, and gave her all to rescue him during one of his earlier episodes of self-attack, taking him into her home for more than a year. I met with them a couple of times back when he stayed with her in New York. She wrote:

Mike's Suicidal Tendencies

from Jenna Orkin

In response to the internet sages who have concluded, in the face of all known evidence from the people who were most intimately familiar with him as well as with the admittedly real dangers that had faced him over the course of his life as an investigative journalist, that Mike did not kill himself but was in fact murdered, his suicidal ideation goes back at least eight years. As a small example, below are excerpts from a few of his emails sent from Venezuela in 2006. In addition, he would call at any and all hours to be talked out of jumping from the roof or offing himself in some other way.

A foray into the seedier barrios of Caracas during a protest was one part journalistic adventure but one bigger part, courting danger. For a hero's death was devoutly to be wished. Failing that, he'd settle - as happened in the end - for death by any means available. On one occasion, he confessed to having tied his necktie around his neck as part of an effort to hang himself - and you can be sure I would not put forth such an implausible notion if it were not true - from the shower fixture. He said that he didn't go through with it because he wished to spare his roommate at the time, Carlos Ruiz, the trauma of finding him the next morning.

He finally left Venezuela in November, ending up, after a detour to Canada, at my apartment. But his reprieve from the alien environment that had not welcomed him the way he had dreamed brought only brief respite. For the next fourteen months, he contemplated suicide on an almost daily basis so that whenever I went to work or the grocery store, I made him promise not to kill himself before I came back. His word - his "honor" - mattered to him more than anything so we took it one day at a time, a notion that was familiar to him from AA.

More on this period in due course.


She includes several of his mails from Venezuela at https://www.collapsenet.com/free-resour ... ed-suicide
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Re: Ruppert died

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:31 pm

Image

Self&Steam, you are gifted writer -- apparently you were here before? -- and have hit some very important insights from afar, as well as gone into speculations and potential calumnies. I feel you will have much to contribute to this board, but please lay off here and please: don't poke at the man's love for his dog.
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Re: Ruppert died

Postby Dioneo » Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:17 pm

I just want to add that people don't just wake up one fine day and decide to start damaging themselves, and not all people who encounter a whiff of fame develop into megalomaniacal narcissists who can't live outside of the spotlight. Generally, I think people who are "damaged" are so because at some point in their lives, probably at a time when they were incapable of defending themselves, someone decided to damage them. Who knows? Maybe the damage is what helps them to have the incredible insights they have. I do know that it does not and should not detract from what they have to say. And when people are like this, people with great gifts to share but who are damaged and continue to inflict damage to themselves, well, I feel great gratitude to the people who do try to help them find peace, even if they have to do so over and over and over. It's not like Mike Ruppert didn't want to find some peace in the here and now. He just found it nearly impossible. I suspect that there are reasons for that much deeper than simply "staring into the abyss" one too many times.
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Re: Ruppert died

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:43 pm

From Guy McPherson's blog:

Livestreamed presentation tomorrow night, and a few words about Michael C. Ruppert
Tue, Apr 15, 2014

Tomorrow I’ll deliver a presentation organized and hosted by Deep Green Resistance. The presentation is scheduled for 8:00 p.m. Eastern time on Wednesday, 16 April 2014. The venue is Casa Puebla, 2710 Broadway, New York, New York. It’ll be livestreamed by Pauline Schneider here.

______

Same-day updates: My interview from a few weeks ago with Derrick Jensen has been posted. It’s here.

I was interviewed on the radio today by Gary Null. The result is embedded below, with my voice starting shortly after the 39-minute mark.


______

I’ve been asked to comment about the death of my friend and colleague, Michael C. Ruppert. I have little to say beyond the obvious: We lost a great man.

Mike called me Saturday night as I was about to deliver a presentation. He told me he loved me and respected my work. We spoke for only a few minutes. Now I know he was calling to say goodbye.

Mike sought the truth, which made him an enemy of the state. I suspect it greatly shortened his life. Apparently he pulled the trigger, but he was disparaged for a long time and attempts to discredit him surely took their toll.

I miss Mike and his clear, strong voice. I am inspired by his work and his life, and I will strive to reach his high standards with my own work. And I will continue to grieve.
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Some very good comments at the link.

Jack: thanks for all your posts on this thread. It's impossible not to tear up watching Abby Martin.
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Re: Ruppert died

Postby MacCruiskeen » Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:35 pm

[On Edit: No apologies for the length of this post, because it had to be as long as it is. I nearly started a new thread for it. I was going to call that thread: "The Late Michael Ruppert vs the Spooks, Shills & Toadies". On reflection, I think it does belong here, in his obituary thread, where the spookiness started.]

self&steam » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:12 am wrote:
MacCruiskeen » Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:27 pm wrote:
Laodicean » Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:30 pm wrote:
Myself, I have limited patience with those who choose to self-destruct...

And this statement, sentiment, and intention expressed is what Michael Ruppert tried to convey to the world. We are choosing to self destruct. It is a choice. He did not have the patience either to watch humanity's self destruction, in doing so showing us his own. The mirror, indeed. I think Ruppert planted a seed that is so desperately trying to take root. I hope we're all still around to see the compassionate, more loving and equal "playing field" Ruppert hopefully envisioned humanity could be before pulling the trigger. The man had more love than can currently go around.

There's a tinge of bitterness to your sweet writing.


Thanks for that, Laodicean.

self&steam wrote:[...] perhaps what I take exception to is Ruppert's approach - like he was trying to change the world in an analog way when a digital way would have caused less wear and tear and gear grinding.


I have no idea what that analogy was intended to convey, apart from a fleeting impression of your own cleverness. Do you?

self&steam wrote:Image

This is not the visage of a happy fellow. It is the face of 22-hours-a-day apoplexy with a 2-hour break for despair.


No, it isn't. (What you're doing there is advertising.) It is not a visage at all. It is not a face. It is an image. It is a single frozen photographic still, carefully selected -- by someone, by some human being with agency and a name -- from a lengthy film. It is one of several tens of thousands of still photographic images that a person might have chosen to choose from that film (or, alternatively, might have chosen not to choose). It is part of the spectacle. That particular image was chosen by the well-named Vice magazine to make Michael Ruppert look crazy. Then it was chosen by you -- on the day Michael Ruppert's death was announced -- to [cue drumroll] make Michael Ruppert look crazy. This to support your diagnosis of "narcissism" and to prepare us for your wise and admirably un-"narcissistic" advice about the unpainful way to "make the world a better place".

If the effort to make the world a better place is this overwhelming and painful, it seems a pretty fair indicator he may have been going about it wrong.


Not a fair indicator at all. It seems a fair indicator that he was at times both angry and hurt (and not for no reason), not very long before his suicide. No more and no less than that.

If I were the type to try and change anyone, I would have sat him down in a comfy chair, put his feet up and made him a jolly nice cup of tea. Then, I would have had him close his eyes, if for no other reason than to stop looking at his reflection in the outside world, and refocus his gaze inside to where we all really live. If he could sit still for long enough, he would discover an entirely new space to hang his hat. From this platform, he could have arisen from that chair to invest his 3-D time and energy effectively.

I would give him this mantra:

What other people think of me is none of my business.
It is none of my business what other people think of me.
What other people think of me is none of my business.


Do you have even the slightest idea how presumptuous and how insufferably patronising that sounds? And how tactless, considering.

refocus his gaze inside to where we all really live


Speak for yourself, please. At least some of us have to live at least some of the time on the outside too -- a big place (you should visit it someday, if you can tear yourself away), populated not only by our own sweet selves but by everything from bunny rabbits to oilwells, policemen, debt collectors, anonymous Internet pundits, selfless "narcissism"-spotters, David Corn, Raw Story and Dick Cheney. The weather there, as in Skegness, is bracing.

No lasting good was ever born from anger and frustration


No indeed, it was a nice cuppa tea and a guided session of un-narcissistic self-adoration that got us universal suffrage, free education, the NHS and an eight-hour day.

So, I will stop trying now to seduce anyone to my way of seeing things and leave you with this video; ...

http://www.collapsenet.com/free-resourc ... cking-name


Do you do irony much? [Answer: Yes, obviously. But often without noticing it.]

R.I.P. Michael Ruppert.


From examining the underpinning code of your post I learned so much about breaking up large masses of text into individual quotes, thanks!


And you have the nerve to diagnose "passive aggression" in Michael Ruppert in your very first post to this thread and to this board? On the day his death was announced? You are really starting to annoy me now.

I have to disagree with those who have praised your writing. It is better-described by two posters on another board:

Rhisiart Gwilym wrote:This is the sort of spiteful psychobabble which was always being thrown at Mike. [...] low-grade, noxious stuff.

http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens ... 69429.html


iorarua wrote:Thanks for saving me the trouble, Rhis. My thoughts exactly.

Had he directed his unique psychological strengths and weaknesses towards promoting the dominant power structures instead of challenging them, he'd be deemed a paragon of psychological health. He'd also have considerable wealth to comfort him in old age - instead of the bleak poverty he was facing. ...

http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens ... 15070.html


My thoughts exactly.

RI regulars may wonder why your writing is being discussed on another board today. It's quite an interesting story. Because, on the very same day that you, "self & steam", posted for the very first time to RI, a poster called "A" was posting almost for the very first time to the British website Media Lens. And his very first post consisted almost wholly of a lengthy quote from "self & steam"'s very first post here at RI. From that same thread:

Posted by A on April 16, 2014, 6:09 pm, in reply to "Re: Abby Martin in tears on 'Breaking The Set' as she gives a valediction for Mike Ruppert. MLers need"

There's an interesting discussion taking place at Rigorous Intuition about this unhappy event. FTW had a big impact on me, and I've tried to follow his work ever since. But having recently watched the Vice documentary 'Apocalypse, Man,' which gave me a strong dose of mixed feelings,this comment in particular struck home and seems worth quoting in full:

'...I am compelled to say something about his passing since I grew up around people with the same spiritual 'thumbprint' as this man. It feels disturbingly familiar, anyway. I think he laboured under self-esteem so compromised that the only way he felt he existed was by observing the reactions he elicited in others. I don't think he had a sense of self outside of satisfying this need. When the attention began to diminish, he felt diminished and reacted by mounting an increasingly desperate campaign of self aggrandisement. Every video I saw since his return from self-exile in Venezuela made me cringe. The misery, anger and frustration rolled off him like a bad smell. He was the definition of a self-loathing narcissist and a cautionary tale for anyone seeking self-worth in the public eye. Trying to reclaim the attention generated by confronting Deutch and publishing Crossing the Rubicon and seeing it dissipate over the years must have been like trying to squeeze a fistful of water.

Included among his last messages was this quote: "I will be offline much of next week but will be checking emails. At 8 AM tomorrow a chauffeured town car will be picking me up from my 26 foot trailer in a very nice junkyard (with a garden) to take me to the Santa Rosa airport for a flight to Seattle where I will be until late Thursday. I'll be staying in a nice room at a Marriott. Don't ya just love the image?"

For myself, the passive-agressive subtext throughout is, "twenty-six foot trailer in a junkyard - staying in a Marriott - back to the junkyard on thursday - how did I come to this? I am better than this. How can I get back what I once had? Isn't it fascinating how much I suffer? Aren't you as fascinated with me as me? Hello? Hello?"'

By the end, he literally could not get arrested. When no one cared enough to talk about him, he did it himself, and at great length. When no one even cared enough to have him killed, he did that himself, as well. He was a product he no longer knew how to market. He was entirely dependent upon creating a reaction in other people in order to feel alive. I cannot imagine how lonely he must have felt in his own company. Even his dog appeared to need a break and took off for a few days.

He's one of the saddest stories I have ever observed. I grieve for him in the same way I grieve for any addict and feel certain he is in a better place now, but even more do I grieve for all the people who tried to keep him alive and help him create a sense of purpose and peace, gave him shelter and succor. People who demand the attention of the world in order to feel alive will never settle for the hoop-jumping ministrations of a handful of caretakers, and I can guess that helping Mr Ruppert feel alive was beyond a full-time job towards the end. My heart now goes out to the people who tried to help: please don’t feel too bad for too long and in future, it may serve you to invest your energy in something or someone with a better rate of return. Sometimes it really is better to see a lost cause and let it stay lost.'


Ruppert Died

http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens ... 68187.html

A few minutes later, however, "A" felt compelled to note that he had made a silly mistake: namely, he had gotten his own name wrong:

Sorry, posted by Aster not A.nm

Posted by Aster on April 16, 2014, 6:12 pm, in reply to "Re: Abby Martin in tears on 'Breaking The Set' as she gives a valediction for Mike Ruppert"

http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens ... 68348.html


And who will deny that it's extremely easy to forget one's own name when one barely ever uses it?

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Joined: June 25, 2012
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View all posts by Aster(all three of them)


So of course it is possible that "A" simply forgot that he was in fact "Aster". By no means likely, but logically possible. Just as it is possible that both "Aster and "A" forgot that they were in fact "self & steam". Do "Aster" and "A" by any chance reside in Cymru (Wales), just as "self & steam" [allegedly] does? I think we should be told.

Certainly it's interesting that "Aster" went to the trouble of joining Media Lens in 2012 in order not to bother posting there, while "sel&steam" went to the trouble of joining Rigorous Intuition in 2012 in order not to bother posting here, and that one of them suddenly starts quoting the other approvingly (at the late Michael Ruppert's expense) on the very same day, namely today. What can have prompted this sudden burst of communicativeness? Perhaps a call from the boss?

self & steam wrote:From examining the underpinning code of your post I learned so much about breaking up large masses of text into individual quotes, thanks!


Intriguing choice of words.* Are you as clever as you think you are?

Unrelated:

Federal government routinely hires internet trolls, shills to monitor chat rooms, disrupt article comment sections

Tuesday, September 17, 2013 by: Jonathan Benson, staff writer

Tags: internet trolls, chat rooms, federal government

...

http://www.naturalnews.com/042093_inter ... ment.html##ixzz2zB49l3GM


(I'm told they're paid by the post, not by the line.)

*...which you took the trouble of going back and perfecting, on edit, half an hour later. Though it was but a single line.
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Re: Ruppert died

Postby Iamwhomiam » Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:04 pm

Could a mod please delete one of Mac's duplicate posts? Thanks, Mac

Welcome new people. Sorry to have met you in this of all postings.

I know little about Ruppert aside from the few bits I read here and there over the years. Not that I know much about bipolar illness, but Ruppert seems to have exhibited both aspects of it publicly, the manic episodes and the deep depression.

It's sad whenever anyone's life comes to an untimely end, but Ruppert planned and carried out his ending at the time of his choosing, so it seems.

And it's ok to be pissed off with him for taking his own life, even though you might have loved the guy.
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Re: Ruppert died

Postby Twyla LaSarc » Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:53 pm

RocketMan » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:10 am wrote:

On a different note, is it my imagination or did Raw Story used to be at least semi-open to parapolitical subjects and CT leanings? This link came with the line "Cue the conspiracy theories..." on Facebook:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/04/15/9 ... s.facebook

Perhaps the chage of guard there in the last few years might have something to do with it.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/tag/tony-ortega/

Ortega is a good investigative reporter and has done great things in the fight against scientology, but a few have also noted his role as gatekeeper, leaving more speculative and deep subjects (like the possible CIA/MC connections with the cult, Theramy, etc) uninvestigated and often dismissing those subjects as 'woo' when they arise.

As he is now editor of Raw Story, his 'caution' may be leading the approach to certain subjects.

As for Ruppert, RIP. I remember the old copvcia days well.
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Re: Ruppert died

Postby Hammer of Los » Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:06 pm

...
Quick story.

My wife blamed my "obsessive" interest in 911 research etc for the distance between us that ended our marriage.

But ya know.

Whoever was behind that dreadful crime will be dead soon, God willing.

I don't even want to think about that event, or those people ever again.

I just like to sit in my cell and listen to the radio and meditate and write.

In all honesty, I very much regret turning over the corner of that particular rug.

Found some nasty bugs.

But sometimes, as I now realise.

It might be so much better.

To just let sleeping dogs lie.
...
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Re: Ruppert died

Postby MacCruiskeen » Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:13 pm

It is terribly sad.

Jack, thanks for your posts. Jenna Orkin and his other friends clearly loved him and did their best for him.

He was an extremely brave man. He was honest, clever, serious and humane. He was also one of the best public speakers I have ever seen. He had the kind of stage presence that can't be faked, because it's rooted in conviction.

Amidst all the talk about his defects of character, real or imagined or exaggerated, the most obvious point goes practically unaddressed: he was de facto homeless, at the age of 63. He had, apparently, at last covered his crippling debts, but as far as I know he had little or no current or future means of support. I have no idea whether he had any serious physical health problems but he was heading for real old age, and it was clear -- from both the Chris Smith film and the Vice series -- that his spirit had been damaged by some terrible experiences throughout his adult life and especially over the last decade. And it was his spirit* alone that had kept him going (as opposed to, say, a sizable inheritance or a safe journalistic sinecure).

He could have kept prudently quiet about everything that matters and had a brilliant and lucrative career as a cop, or as a journalist, or perhaps even as an academic. Instead, at the end, he was (for his pains) left literally wandering in the wilderness.

R.I.P.

*Spirit includes a capacity for anger.
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Re: Ruppert died

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:34 pm

MacCruiskeen » Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:13 pm wrote:It is terribly sad.

Jack, thanks for your posts. Jenna Orkin and his other friends clearly loved him and did their best for him.

He was an extremely brave man. He was honest, clever, serious and humane. He was also one of the best public speakers I have ever seen. He had the kind of stage presence that can't be faked, because it's rooted in conviction.

Amidst all the talk about his defects of character, real or imagined or exaggerated, the most obvious point goes practically unaddressed: he was de facto homeless, at the age of 63. He had, apparently, at last covered his crippling debts, but as far as I know he had little or no current or future means of support. I have no idea whether he had any serious physical health problems but he was heading for real old age, and it was clear -- from both the Chris Smith film and the Vice series -- that his spirit had been damaged by some terrible experiences throughout his adult life and especially over the last decade. And it was his spirit* alone that had kept him going (as opposed to, say, a sizable inheritance or a safe journalistic sinecure).

He could have kept prudently quiet about everything that matters and had a brilliant and lucrative career as a cop, or as a journalist, or perhaps even as an academic. Instead, at the end, he was (for his pains) left literally wandering in the wilderness.

R.I.P.

*Spirit includes a capacity for anger.


R.I.P. M.C.R.
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Re: Ruppert died

Postby divideandconquer » Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:59 pm

slimmouse » Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:44 pm wrote:IFWIW. The jury still out with me on whether it was suicide or not.


Same here. It's not that I want to cast a suspicious shadow over the death of every famous or semi-famous individual-- I don't believe there is anything suspicious about John Judge's death-- but something about the way this "suicide" was first revealed seems a little off. What bothers me most is the certainty of the woman who posted about his not-faked suicide on her Facebook page, not to mention her readiness to take over his show not even a week later.
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Re: Ruppert died

Postby Iamwhomiam » Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:02 pm

Thanks for that Mac, Jack. Indeed, most hopefully he is now at peace and enveloped in Love.
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Re: Ruppert died

Postby Hunter » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:00 pm

Double post edited out
Last edited by Hunter on Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ruppert died

Postby Hunter » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:00 pm

JackRiddler » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:31 pm wrote:Image

Self&Steam, you are gifted writer -- apparently you were here before? -- and have hit some very important insights from afar, as well as gone into speculations and potential calumnies. I feel you will have much to contribute to this board, but please lay off here and please: don't poke at the man's love for his dog.

Jack, sorry for the confusion, is that a letter Mike wrote to you before his death? Thanks for sharing in any case.

What was wrong with Mike in your opinion, was he clinically depressed and suffering from chemical imbalance. If so, I think a lot of people who dont suffer from such a thing have no real understanding how difficult a life that is to live, it is a real battle. And it is even worse today, you have to choose whether to disclose this sort of info to a doctor to get meds, knowing that now everything on your medical record is basically online somewhere, the days of old paper med files are over. There is also the demonization and stigma of mental illness due to all these mass shootings and such, who wants to go to a doctor these days and admit youre having problems knowing full well that can be used against you in any number of ways now and even more so in the future probably, what you tell your doctor is no longer the private matter it once was. And it is a real difficult decision to make whether you should go and try and get help and be stigmatized forever, not knowing what the future may hold for having such a thing on your record etc. I cant imagine how hard it must be but I have lived with depressed people and I know the struggle first hand, its very sad and tragic and it is not just a matter of pulling up the boot straps and getting after and deciding to be happy, it is a real chemical problem in the brain that tortures the fuck out of you in any number of ways.

Or was it more that he was a true empath, someone who just couldnt deal with all the pain and suffering that life is so full of for so many of us, all of us in fact, some are just better at dealing with it or ignoring it. I know how it feels, I dont know if I am an empath or what but things like seeing homeless people, hungry children, starved and abused animals, the destruction of the earth, watching parents age, get sick and suffer and die, it is a real struggle for me, the pain is heavy and real and I have to somehow sling it over my back and carry it around every fucking day, it is rather exhausting at times but I carry on somehow, somedays I do not how I do it but I have someone in my life whom I love very much and who loves me very much and she is the one reason I keep going in spite of all this pain and suffering around me that is just so fucking overwhelming. I am not talking about just being sad over these things, I am talking about being literally sick an unable to function properly half the time because of the pain it brings you, the pain is piercing, real and heavy and strong. It is a real burden to bear for me and I am sure many others, I dont know why, maybe I am just too soft, maybe I am a pussy and I need to man up and accept that this is all a part of life but regardless, it makes life very hard for me to live and carry on not to the point I have ever become suicidal but certainly to the point I am literally fucking exhausted trying to carry this weight around all the time and it gets heavier by the day because I feel like I am literally carrying the pain of others around with me ALL THE FUCKING TIME.

What do you think was the case with Mike?
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Re: Ruppert died

Postby Hunter » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:27 pm

divideandconquer » Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:59 pm wrote:
slimmouse » Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:44 pm wrote:IFWIW. The jury still out with me on whether it was suicide or not.


Same here. It's not that I want to cast a suspicious shadow over the death of every famous or semi-famous individual-- I don't believe there is anything suspicious about John Judge's death-- but something about the way this "suicide" was first revealed seems a little off. What bothers me most is the certainty of the woman who posted about his not-faked suicide on her Facebook page, not to mention her readiness to take over his show not even a week later.

I dont know any reason why someone would murder Mike NOW, he has been out of the scene a while and really wasnt doing much to poke the hornets nest at this time.

From his videos I see a man who is clearly very tired, either from battling depression or just an inability, which I speak of above, to deal with all the horrible shit going on in the world, for some people it is just really hard to put on a fucking happy face and carry on everyday like youre expected to, at some point you just dont have it in you anymore, youre worn out and there is no fuel left in the tank to keep putting that happy face on and carrying on day after day after day. It is a real battle, if you dont have this experience yourself it is really difficult to relate to I would suppose.

Though I am certainly not opposed to the idea that people like Mike are taken out, I am not really seeing it here, I see a man who is real fucking tired and had nothing left in the tank, it was empty and he was stranded in the middle of nowhere with no chance for help to refill that tank.

I have a wonderful lady who is able to keep my tank full, because of her love and beautiful heart, without her I dont know what the fuck I would do. She is my rock.
Last edited by Hunter on Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hunter
 
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