Vaccine - Autism link

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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby dada » Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:11 am

I didn't get that from PufPuf's post. I'm thinking it was about the insight that strong anti positions feed the narratives they are against. That to have strong anti-anything positions means accepting the narratives they are against. Strong anti-globalist illuminati positions feed the globalist illuminati narrative. Maybe we could say the strong anti-position is the crusade. Crusaders reinforce the narrative they are crusading against. Because the crusade needs the narrative, happens within the narrative.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby stickdog99 » Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:54 pm

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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby dada » Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:23 pm

I don't catch your meaning.

Looks to me like a depressing reminder of how the Internet has gone terribly wrong.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby stickdog99 » Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:31 pm

Exactly. If you don't understand the meaning, then something must be terribly wrong.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby dada » Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:17 pm

Or you could just explain yourself.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:07 am

I think what he means is that there is obviously a genetic component to autism.,
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby stickdog99 » Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:52 am

dada » 26 Apr 2021 00:17 wrote:Or you could just explain yourself.


said the incurable explainer to the unexplainable
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby dada » Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:04 am

Why not just explain what you mean, though?
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby conniption » Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:11 am

dada » Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:11 am wrote:I didn't get that from PufPuf's post. I'm thinking it was about the insight that strong anti positions feed the narratives they are against. That to have strong anti-anything positions means accepting the narratives they are against. Strong anti-globalist illuminati positions feed the globalist illuminati narrative. Maybe we could say the strong anti-position is the crusade. Crusaders reinforce the narrative they are crusading against. Because the crusade needs the narrative, happens within the narrative.



This one's for you, dada...

Off-Guardian comment section
Kalen
Apr 26, 2021 1:50 PM
Reply to George Mc

You are right that academics these days but also in the past were using dialectics cover to peddle postmodernist nonsense. In fact Schopenhauer excluded from academia rejected Hegel dialectics as complete mambo-jumbo nonsense while embraced Kant dialects wholeheartedly.

Marx, student of Hegelian Philosophy, borrowed the general concept of dialectics but rejected quasi-religious fatalism of Hegel (struggle between good and evil) and devised instead dialectics of historical materialism (struggle between class interests in class society) as guiding Historiosophy.

What dialectics generally mean, as I read it, is not really a nonsense but simply acknowledgment that we are incapable of discerning absolute reality if such reality exist. And hence we are kind of blind poking dark reality with a stick in material, emotional and intellectual and social realms of feelings, thoughts and/or individual and collective actions really having no idea what would happen as a result of such poking and then when we poke a reality reveals itself by.. poking back, revealing our lack of understanding what reality really is. And that is nothing but process of learning by experience, emotional, intellectual or material experience along learning scheme of thesis (about what reality is) -antithesis (reality pushes back) -synthesis (new thesis about same old reality).

That should be understood in a way that any deliberate change to achieve something will always achieve something else those who pushed for the change could not predict since they did not understand true reality as they acted on faulty model of it.

A classical illustrations of that process was Radical capitalist revolution of XIX century (industrial revolution) that produced as unpredicted side effect unprecedented organized mass movement of working class nearly costing capitalist elites their power. Reality pushed back, and hence they retreated to drawing boards to devise new approach of correcting the problem with devising technocratic society of control where inherent class conflict is erased by among other things ideology of postmodernism moral relativism of truth. Make your own judgment how it applies to today.

It is true that many lapsed Marxists produce shitload of postmodernist cacophony of everything-goes nonsense in the name of identity politics, far removed from historical left while prostituting Marxist terminology, but let’s not outright denigrate thought-through philosophical concepts only because they are being deliberately misused for political propaganda or academic career gains.

https://off-guardian.org/2021/04/26/10- ... ent-360651
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby dada » Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:40 am

"What dialectics generally mean, as I read it, is not really a nonsense but simply acknowledgment that we are incapable of discerning absolute reality if such reality exist."

I don't accept that. I think the post above just shows an unfamiliarity or ignorance of other, non-western forms of philosophical inquiry.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby conniption » Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:41 pm

dada » Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:40 am wrote:"What dialectics generally mean, as I read it, is not really a nonsense but simply acknowledgment that we are incapable of discerning absolute reality if such reality exist."

I don't accept that. I think the post above just shows an unfamiliarity or ignorance of other, non-western forms of philosophical inquiry.



Aw heck... I was hoping he had said something worthwhile and you would have enjoyed it. Sorry.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby dada » Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:17 pm

Well I enjoyed responding to it, so I guess that it all worked out.

I hope you don't mind my asking, but why are the all the words tilty in your last post?
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby conniption » Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:59 pm

dada » Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:17 pm wrote:Well I enjoyed responding to it, so I guess that it all worked out.

I hope you don't mind my asking, but why are the all the words tilty in your last post?


Darn me anyway. Did I do something wrong? I was only trying to distinguish it from your straight up and down comment.
I can fix that for you, edit it, within the next 20 some odd hours or so. How would you like it, sir?

Straight up a down and bolded, perhaps?
Aw heck... I was hoping he had said something worthwhile and you would have enjoyed it. Sorry.

Extra big and colorful?
Aw heck... I was hoping he had said something worthwhile and you would have enjoyed it. Sorry. (Oh, I like that.) (there I go getting all tilty again... Sorry)

Anyway, here I am messing up this thread with silly chatter. Sorry again. I do happen to be reading an article on RT about the Russian vaccine, Sputnik V. I'll post it here:

RT

It’s globally praised, works well & is registered in 60 nations, so why do more Russians not want the Sputnik V Covid-19 vaccine?

By Jonny Tickle
26 Apr, 2021

In August last year, Russia became the first country in the world to register a vaccine against Covid-19. Despite Sputnik V's well-earned global reputation, domestic uptake has been disappointingly slow but there are many reasons.

Developed by Moscow's Gamaleya Center and named after the first-ever artificial satellite, Sputnik V has garnered international plaudits, with health officials and experts from the likes of the US and Germany commending the impressive achievement of the Russian scientists.

An institute of epidemiology and microbiology, the Gamaleya Center is certainly no stranger to significant scientific breakthroughs, with successes fighting both Ebola and MERS.

The vaccine itself has a solid base. As a viral vector, Sputnik V is built in a similar way to the Oxford–AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson vaccines, but, unlike those jabs, no significant side effects have been reported by any of the dozens of countries using the jab. Notably, there are some important differences in composition. For example, Sputnik V uses a human adenovirus, while Oxford–AstraZeneca uses the modified chimpanzee adenovirus.

And, what's more, it works. In February, the prestigious British medical journal The Lancet published data from the Gamaleya scientists showing that the shot is 91.6% effective.

Moreover, there also doesn't appear to be a supply problem – especially in Moscow and St. Petersburg, where doses are readily available. In the capital, it's even possible to get vaccinated in the prestigious GUM shopping center, on Red Square, with a view of the Kremlin. Such availability is not restricted to the two capitals. In southern cities, such as Krasnodar and Sochi, the jab can easily be obtained in malls.

However, as of Monday, April 26, according Prime Minister Tatyana Golikova, just 5% (7,500,000 people) of Russia's population has been fully immunized – a figure significantly lower than that seen in the likes of the US and the UK, both of which took longer to approve a jab. The proportion of inoculated Russians is even smaller than France and Germany, both parts of a European Union that famously stuttered at the start of its vaccination program.

Unlike the EU, the lack of people being inoculated against Covid-19 doesn't appear to be due to a shortage of doses – at least while desire for the vaccine remains low. According to Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov, the country has had no problem giving shots to people who want them, but demand “leaves much to be desired.”

So, how did Russia's much-hyped vaccine-creation success end in so few citizens wanting to receive the shot?

Vaccine skepticism

The most significant factor, at least according to the available polling data, appears to be a lack of trust in vaccines in general.

In a paper published in March, research by Swiss investment bank Credit Suisse revealed that Russia ranked in the last place of eight selected countries, with around 30% wanting to be vaccinated against Covid-19. This figure is far below developing countries such as China, India, and Thailand, where more than four-fifths said they were willing.

These findings are broadly similar to February polling by another company, the Levada Center, which found that just 30% of Russians were interested in Sputnik V, while 62% were completely against taking the shot, and 4% had already received it. The Levada Center is registered as a foreign agent by Russia's Ministry of Justice.

Credit Suisse's conclusions are consistent with its previous surveys, which also discovered that less than half of Russians trust domestic vaccines (38% in January 2021).

And it's not just vaccines that people don't seem to believe in. According to Vadim Pokrovsky of the Russian Academy of Sciences, citizens have very little trust in anything endorsed by the government.

“There are some people who completely oppose vaccination – not only against Covid-19,” Pokrovsky told Moscow daily Gazette. “Other people, especially those brought up during the Soviet Union, are instinctively suspicious if they think the state is actively promoting something.”

However, as the Credit Suisse report also noted, some have argued that the timing and circumstances around Sputnik V's approval may also have played a role in reducing the population's confidence in the Russian jab.

The registration of Sputnik V was revealed by President Vladimir Putin on August 11 last year. Speaking on TV, he called it an “important moment for the whole world” and reassured Russians that it works “rather effectively” and “passed all the necessary inspections.” Even his daughter had been inoculated, he said.

However, at that point, the approved formula hadn't yet passed its phase three trial. This led to Moscow being accused of cutting corners to roll out the vaccine at a quicker rate than usual, skipping a vital part of the process.

While phase one and two results had been overwhelmingly positive, the lack of a third round of testing was cause for some concern and was slammed by some Western scientists as a “reckless and foolish decision” and a “political stunt.”

In particular, in the US, the country's National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases director Anthony Fauci expressed “serious doubts” that a “safe and effective” vaccine could have been produced after being tested on fewer than 100 subjects.

However, once eventually conducted, the interim results from Phase III showed 91.6% efficacy. While this brought many experts around – including Dr. Fauci – Russians weren't entirely convinced. The positive data, published in February, still failed to have the desired effect of massively improving confidence in the shot.

Putin didn't get vaccinated early, and some doubt he got vaccinated at all

Unlike governments in many other countries, the Kremlin has been much less forceful in its push to encourage citizens to get immunized. The most prominent example of this is President Putin's refusal to be publically vaccinated.

In December, Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov revealed that the delay was due to “waiting for all formalities to be completed,” such as the Phase III trial, having previously noted that he “cannot use an uncertified vaccine.”

When Putin finally decided to get the jab – on March 23 – he made the unexpected decision of choosing to have it done in private. Other leaders, such as Britain's Boris Johnson, Ukraine's Volodymyr Zelensky, and America's Joe Biden, have all received their jabs on camera.

The president's decision not to make his immunization a public event, and his refusal to name the particular vaccine he received, has led to a whole host of conspiracy theories, with some believing that he got a foreign jab instead of one made at home. Others say he was never even immunized at all – extra fuel for the already vaccine-skeptical population. However, the Kremlin said that his reticence in detailing the exact vaccine used was to avoid showing favoritism to one of the three domestically-produced jabs.

This was further complicated when Peskov explained that Putin didn't like the idea of “vaccination under cameras,” despite him famously and repeatedly showing his bare torso on TV.

A day after Putin received his booster shot, Peskov claimed the president's personal example would be “mobilizing” and bring about “a very positive effect.” According to the gogov online portal, an unofficial aggregator, the daily number of people receiving their first jab has significantly jumped up since the president was inoculated – from 61,563 on March 23 to 184,151 on April 23. One can only imagine how much this could have been amplified if Putin was vaccinated earlier – and on TV.

Disinformation and negative press

Like the Covid-19 vaccine rollout in many other countries, the Russian campaign has been marred by vast amounts of disinformation, both online and in mainstream media.

On television, certain programs have focused on the potential negatives of vaccination. Scare stories, particularly regarding foreign vaccines, have often prominently featured on news channels. In particular, earlier in the year, the media frequently reported on the low number of deaths following vaccination by the Western-made AstraZeneca jab, especially those linked to blood clots.

Prior to its rollout, the Vesti Nedeli program on Channel Russia 1 dubbed the AstraZeneca shot a 'monkey vaccine' - a description that could certainly have worried an already vaccine-skeptical audience. This segment led to condemnation in foreign media, most prominently in Britain's The Times, which claimed that "the Russians" were spreading fake news about the shot. In response, the Russian Embassy in London slammed the newspaper's report as "misinformation."

There has been plenty of disinformation about Russia's own Sputnik V jab, too. In particular, on social networks such as Vkontakte, WhatsApp, and TikTok, conspiracy theories about potential harm caused by the vaccine have run rampant.

On Telegram, channels like ‘Sorok Sorokov’ have promoted anti-vax content, slamming Sputnik V as “anti-human” and “including a cell line created on the cells of a murdered child.” The channel regularly shares videos and quotes from vaccine-skeptics, finding articles from anyone who notes any mild worry about vaccines.

For the youth, the most dangerous website for false information is TikTok. Popular with young Russians, the website is flooded with lies and misrepresentations. However, when speaking to German state-funded outlet DW, the company assured that it does not allow anti-vaccination content.

According to Alexandra Arkhipova, an anthropologist and senior researcher at RANEPA University, Russians have been flooded with disinformation about conspiracies, such as rumors that “people are being chipped or injected with something dangerous under the guise of vaccination.”

In fact, the situation with media reporting about Sputnik V even reached a point that the prosecutor general's office began actively blocking sites “with false information about the coronavirus and the mandatory ‘chipping’ of people.”

Lack of incentive

Another factor affecting the vaccine rollout is a simple lack of motivation for Russians to take the time to head down to a clinic. Although the country had a severe lockdown in spring 2020, restrictions have been relatively relaxed since the mass rollout of the vaccine program in January this year. With restaurants, bars, and nightclubs open, many people haven't felt the need to get the jab, with no incentive of additional freedom in exchange.

Furthermore, while some people in other countries are getting vaccinated ahead of a potential summer vacation, the size of Russia means that citizens can easily travel to the beach or a big city for a holiday without leaving the country. Flights around Russia are operating as usual, with some airlines utilizing their excess planes – typically used for international connections – to take more people to popular resorts, such as those in Sochi.

For those who have had Covid-19, there is also a belief that there is no need to be vaccinated. According to Moscow Mayor Sergey Sobyanin, around 50% of Muscovites had coronavirus antibodies five months ago – a figure that should be much higher in April 2021.

What's next?

Inside the Kremlin, officials may be starting to worry about the lack of Russians opting to get immunized. As well as Peskov's admission that demand “leaves much to be desired,” Putin also appears to be amplifying his pro-vaccine message. On Wednesday, at his annual address to the Federal Assembly, the president used his nationwide platform, live on TV, to urge Russians to get inoculated.

“Vaccination is of crucial importance,” he told gathered officials. “The opportunity to take the jab must be available everywhere, so that we achieve the so-called herd immunity by the autumn.”

“The attainment of this goal depends on everyone, on all our citizens. Please, I am asking all citizens of Russia, once again, to get vaccinated.”

With summer around the corner, the Kremlin will want to use the hot weather and lower infection figures to get more people inoculated to avoid a devastating new third wave in the fall. As long as the country can provide the supplies to match the demand, it can prevent any further disaster – it just depends if the people want it.

https://www.rt.com/russia/521959-popula ... 9-vaccine/
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby dada » Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:44 pm

I thought maybe you had a reason for putting the words in italics. I didn't understand why they were that way, so I asked. If you don't want to tell me why, that's fine, really. I don't need to know.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Belligerent Savant » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:47 am

slomo » Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:18 am wrote:
BrandonD » 04 Aug 2015 16:03 wrote:I notice people who are generally very skeptical of power and authority (and rightfully so) suddenly become apologists for the ruling class with this particular issue, and I think that is because of what it represents, rather than the facts of the issue itself.

If the "science/left vs religion/right" debate was not a permanent backdrop behind this subject, then I suspect people would look at it differently.

IMO the assumption that a medical establishment composed of profit-driven corporations is being motivated by the greatest good of the general public is absurd, and only becomes more absurd with each passing year. It is equivalent to the assumption that politicians are motivated by the greatest good of the general public. It is naive, especially considering that both fields involve a great amount of money and prestige.

I also think many others on this forum would look at the medical and scientific establishments through a more skeptical lens, were it not for the underlying sentiment that acknowledging any wrongdoing or deception from these groups is tantamount to "conceding" to the religious right and their Jesus crusade.

I have noticed this as well, and agree with the analysis.

To repeat a point that has been made often in this thread: the issue isn't whether certain well-established vaccines are safe for most people (this is demonstrably true). It is whether the public health system, in collusion with institutional medicine and the pharmaceutical industry, should be given any legal precedent to mandate, population-wide, any medical procedure, Because given the current system for approving drugs (as well as their frequent off-label uses), it is not a stretch to imagine additional vaccines being added to the mandatory list without adequate testing for either efficacy or general safety. All of this runs counter to established principles of informed consent and autonomy. THAT is the real issue.


Both takes are spot-on, and prescient.

The quoted bits above were typed ~6 years ago. Unfortunately, it's gotten markedly worse since that time, especially -- needless to say -- since 2020. (Indeed, experimental 'therapies' that aren't actually vaccines are now being branded as 'vaccines', with all the waiver of liability that comes with that tag; informed consent? Ha -- ask anyone here that took any of these shots if they were 'informed' of anything, such as its current status as EUA. I spoke to a town resident here the other day, and when I mentioned in passing that the shots weren't FDA approved, he replied.. "wait, they're not FDA approved? I'm pretty sure they are...". And this was a man that has already taken the shot[s]).

Manipulation of sentiment has been ongoing for some time; when the hammer of ramped-up propaganda came down on us in 2020, many were already primed to take it in dutifully.

Incrementally, discernment is shed.
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