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backtoiam » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:55 pm wrote:Long screed about how everything was better before.
DrEvil » 12 Sep 2016 21:43 wrote:And the "experts" who consistently lie, fudge the numbers, do bad research and misrepresent the data are any better?
Seriously, almost every single article and video by anti-vaxxers posted in this thread is guilty of one or more of the above, and still you trust those fuckers?
I don't so much hate anti-vaxxers because they oppose vaccines (well, that too), but the consistently dishonest way they go about it. They start from the conclusion that vaccines are bad, recruit people with the same opinions to do their "resarch" and mold their arguments to fit their reality, consequences be damned.
It's so god damn sloppy and only serves to make them look like idiots.
You're scraping the bottom of the barrel. Post something with some fucking rigor and intellectual honesty and maybe I'll listen. Right now you sound like the crazy end of the climate change denial crowd.
I also noticed that none of you have mentioned the numbers of deaths before and after vaccines that I posted. What's the problem? They don't fit with your preconceived notions so they should be ignored?
DrEvil » Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:57 pm wrote:backtoiam » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:55 pm wrote:Long screed about how everything was better before.
Pretty much everything you just said can be ascribed to one thing: your fucked up for-profit health-care system. Guess what? You're the only western country with such a system.
The problem isn't the doctors, it's the profit motive, which I agree is completely messed up, but that still doesn't mean that vaccines don't work, it just means that profit hungry cocksuckers are exploiting your system for what its worth. Medicare isn't even allowed to negotiate prices with big pharma. It's completely fucked up. The whole system needs to be torn up by its roots and replaced with something that puts people first.
If I go to the doctor here because I'm in bad shape I'm as likely to get a prescription for fruit or gym classes as pills. Imagine that!
slimmouse » Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:03 pm wrote:Agent Orange Cooper » 12 Sep 2016 20:34 wrote:LOL, yes listen to the experts, as long as the experts are the ones who agree with the prevailing medical establishment which is totally not profit driven and/or serving a globalist agenda of eugenics and creating a legion of sick people and barely functioning children.
the experts who do not agree with the establishment are not to be considered, even if they have the exact same credentials as all the other 'experts.'
what a joke these conversations always turn out to be.
Nuff said reallly..
OP ED » Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:32 pm wrote:
A legion of sick people over fifty is better than most people dying at 30.
The best conspiracy is a conspiracy of one, but seeing more and more professionals coming out in support of CD I'm changing my mind (shocking, I know).
Burnt Hill » Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:47 pm wrote:OP ED » Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:32 pm wrote:
A legion of sick people over fifty is better than most people dying at 30.
For the pharmaceutical industry, yeah?
OP ED
If this is a eugenics program then they're sure doing a shit job of it. There are more people alive than dead, and the balance isn't showing any signs of swinging the other way.
OP ED
There are many reasons why, for example, we don't just take some mom's word for it when it comes to diagnostics, the fact that she's not a doctor would be prime, but there's also the potential for undiscovered child abusers and suchlike concerns which could greatly hamper proper treatment quite aside from other moral obligations.
OP ED
I like having regulations. I don't want a return to the good olde days of leeches and icepicks, "hysteria", heroin and cigarettes used to treat asthma and etc etc. We did that already and we used to die a lot younger back then.
DrEvil » Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:43 pm wrote:And the "experts" who consistently lie, fudge the numbers, do bad research and misrepresent the data are any better?
Seriously, almost every single article and video by anti-vaxxers posted in this thread is guilty of one or more of the above, and still you trust those fuckers?
I don't so much hate anti-vaxxers because they oppose vaccines (well, that too), but the consistently dishonest way they go about it. They start from the conclusion that vaccines are bad, recruit people with the same opinions to do their "resarch" and mold their arguments to fit their reality, consequences be damned.
It's so god damn sloppy and only serves to make them look like idiots.
You're scraping the bottom of the barrel. Post something with some fucking rigor and intellectual honesty and maybe I'll listen. Right now you sound like the crazy end of the climate change denial crowd.
I also noticed that none of you have mentioned the numbers of deaths before and after vaccines that I posted. What's the problem? They don't fit with your preconceived notions so they should be ignored?
And just out of morbid curiosity: what do you guys propose as an alternative to vaccines?
The above graphs, based on the official death numbers as recorded in the Official Year Books of the Commonwealth of Australia, are taken from Greg Beattie's excellent book "Vaccination A Parent's Dilemma" and represent the decline in death rates from infectious disease in Australia. They clearly show that vaccines had nothing to do with the decline in death rates. (Note: Graphical evidence on the decline in death rates from infectious disease for USA, England, New Zealand and many other countries shows the exact same scenario as above).
http://www.vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1.html
"There is a great deal of evidence to prove that immunisation of children does more harm than good."
Dr J Anthony Morris, former Chief Vaccine Control Officer, US Food
and Drug Administration
"The greatest threat of childhood disease lies in the dangerous and
ineffectual efforts made to prevent them through mass immunisation."
Dr R. Mendelsohn, Author and Professor of Paediatrics (How To Raise A Healthy Child In Spite Of Your Doctor)
"In our opinion, there is now sufficient evidence of immune malfunction following current vaccination programmes to anticipate growing public demands for research investigation into alternative methods of prevention of infectious disease."
Dr's H. Buttram and J. Hoffman (Vaccinations and Immune Malfunctions)
"All vaccination has the effect of directing the three values of the blood
into or toward the zone characteristics of cancer and leukemia...Vaccines DO predispose to cancer and leukaemia."
Professor L.C. Vincent, Founder of Bioelectronics
"Every vaccine carries certain hazards and can produce inward reactions in some people...in general, there are more vaccine complications than is generally appreciated."
Professor George Dick, London University
"Official data have shown that the large-scale vaccinations undertaken in the US have failed to obtain any significant improvement of the diseases against which they were supposed to provide protection."
Dr A. Sabin, developer of the Oral Polio vaccine (lecture to Italian doctors in Piacenza, Italy, Decemebr 7th 1985)
"In addition to the many obvious cases of mortality from these practises,
there are also long-term hazards which are almost impossible to estimate
accurately...the inherent danger of of all vaccine procedures should be a
deterrent to their unnecessary or unjustifiable use."
Sir Graham Wilson (The Hazards of Immunisation)
"Laying aside the very real possibility that the various vaccines are
contaminated with animal viruses and may cause serious illness later in life (multiple sclerosis, cancer, leukaemia, etc) we must consider whether the vaccines really work for their intended purpose."
Dr W.C. Douglas (Cutting Edge, May 1990)
"The only wholly safe vaccine is a vaccine that is never used"
Dr James A. Shannon, National Institute of Health, USA
With reference to Smallpox;
"Vaccination is a monstrosity, a misbegotten offspring of error and
ignorance, it should have no place in either hygiene or medicine...Believe not in vaccination, it is a world-wide delusion, an unscientific practise, a fatal superstition with consequences measured today by tears and sorrow without end."
Professor Chas Rauta, University of Perguia, Italy , (New York Medical Journal July 1899)
"Vaccination does not protect, it actually renders its subjects more
susceptible by depressing vital power and diminishing natural resistance, and millions of people have died of smallpox which they contracted after being vaccinated."
Dr J.W. Hodge (The Vaccination Superstition)
"It is nonsense to think that you can inject pus - and it is usually from the pustule end of the dead smallpox victim … it is unthinkable that you can inject that into a little child and in any way improve its health. What is true of vaccination is exactly as true of all forms of serum immunisation, if we could by any means build up a natural resistance to disease through these artificial means, I would applaud it to the echo, but we can't do it."
Dr William Howard Hay (lecture to Medical Freedom Society, June 25th 1937)
"Immunisation against smallpox is more hazardous than the disease itself."
Professor Ari Zuckerman, World Health Organisation
With reference to Whooping Cough;
"There is no doubt in my mind that in the UK alone some hundreds, if not thousands of well infants have suffered irreparable brain damage needlessly and that their lives and those of their parents have been wrecked in consequence."
Professor Gordon Stewart, University of Glasgow (Here's Health, March 1980)
"My suspicion, which is shared by others in my profession, is that the
nearly 10,000 SIDS deaths that occur in the US each year are related to one or more of the vaccines that are routinely given to children. The pertussis (whooping cough) vaccine is the most likely villain , but it could also be one or more of the others."
Dr R Mendelsohn, Author and Professor of Paediatrics (How To Raise A Healthy Child In Spite Of Your Doctor)
"The worst vaccine of all is the whooping cough vaccine...it is responsible for a lot of deaths and for a lot of infants suffering irreversible brain damage.."
Dr Archie Kalokerinos, Author and Vaccine Researcher (Natural Health Convention, Stanwell Tops, NSW, Australia 1987)
With reference to Polio;
"Many here voice a silent view that the Salk and Sabin polio vaccine, being made of monkey kidney tissue has been directly responsible for the major increase in leukaemia in this country."
Dr F. Klenner, Polio Researcher, USA
"No batch of vaccine can be proved to be safe before it is given to
children"
Surgeon General Leonard Scheele (AMA Convention 1955, USA)
"Live virus vaccines against influenza and paralytic polio, for example, may in each instance cause the disease it is intended to prevent..."
Dr Jonas Salk, developer of first polio vaccine (Science 4/4/77 Abstracts)
http://www.vaclib.org/sites/debate/web3.html
Agent Orange Cooper
well said backto. let's also not forget that vaccines as a product need to pass no clinical trials before they are pushed on the american public, which is different from every other medication. vaccines as a whole are exempt, they are in another class entirely. they are as American (corporate-owned and corporate-sold) as Coca-Cola.
OP ED
Poverty (and its related symptoms such as substance abuse) is often a contributor.
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