Vaccine - Autism link

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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby DrEvil » Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:43 pm

And the "experts" who consistently lie, fudge the numbers, do bad research and misrepresent the data are any better?

Seriously, almost every single article and video by anti-vaxxers posted in this thread is guilty of one or more of the above, and still you trust those fuckers?

I don't so much hate anti-vaxxers because they oppose vaccines (well, that too), but the consistently dishonest way they go about it. They start from the conclusion that vaccines are bad, recruit people with the same opinions to do their "resarch" and mold their arguments to fit their reality, consequences be damned.
It's so god damn sloppy and only serves to make them look like idiots.

You're scraping the bottom of the barrel. Post something with some fucking rigor and intellectual honesty and maybe I'll listen. Right now you sound like the crazy end of the climate change denial crowd.

I also noticed that none of you have mentioned the numbers of deaths before and after vaccines that I posted. What's the problem? They don't fit with your preconceived notions so they should be ignored?

And just out of morbid curiosity: what do you guys propose as an alternative to vaccines?
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby DrEvil » Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:57 pm

backtoiam » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:55 pm wrote:Long screed about how everything was better before.


Pretty much everything you just said can be ascribed to one thing: your fucked up for-profit health-care system. Guess what? You're the only western country with such a system.

The problem isn't the doctors, it's the profit motive, which I agree is completely messed up, but that still doesn't mean that vaccines don't work, it just means that profit hungry cocksuckers are exploiting your system for what its worth. Medicare isn't even allowed to negotiate prices with big pharma. It's completely fucked up. The whole system needs to be torn up by its roots and replaced with something that puts people first.

If I go to the doctor here because I'm in bad shape I'm as likely to get a prescription for fruit or gym classes as pills. Imagine that!
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby slimmouse » Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:57 pm

DrEvil » 12 Sep 2016 21:43 wrote:And the "experts" who consistently lie, fudge the numbers, do bad research and misrepresent the data are any better?

Seriously, almost every single article and video by anti-vaxxers posted in this thread is guilty of one or more of the above, and still you trust those fuckers?

I don't so much hate anti-vaxxers because they oppose vaccines (well, that too), but the consistently dishonest way they go about it. They start from the conclusion that vaccines are bad, recruit people with the same opinions to do their "resarch" and mold their arguments to fit their reality, consequences be damned.
It's so god damn sloppy and only serves to make them look like idiots.

You're scraping the bottom of the barrel. Post something with some fucking rigor and intellectual honesty and maybe I'll listen. Right now you sound like the crazy end of the climate change denial crowd.

I also noticed that none of you have mentioned the numbers of deaths before and after vaccines that I posted. What's the problem? They don't fit with your preconceived notions so they should be ignored?


Since when have 60 fuckn vacccines within 10 yrs become neccessary?

Shouldnt we perhaps be focosing on the causes of this, Doc

We know its the stupids who are doing this to us.

I guess its just a question of when were going to stop letting the stupids run the show.

And just out of morbid curiosity: what do you guys propose as an alternative to vaccines?
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby slimmouse » Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:00 pm

stopping the stupids, though that is clearly going to be hard LOL
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby backtoiam » Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:27 pm

DrEvil » Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:57 pm wrote:
backtoiam » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:55 pm wrote:Long screed about how everything was better before.


Pretty much everything you just said can be ascribed to one thing: your fucked up for-profit health-care system. Guess what? You're the only western country with such a system.

The problem isn't the doctors, it's the profit motive, which I agree is completely messed up, but that still doesn't mean that vaccines don't work, it just means that profit hungry cocksuckers are exploiting your system for what its worth. Medicare isn't even allowed to negotiate prices with big pharma. It's completely fucked up. The whole system needs to be torn up by its roots and replaced with something that puts people first.

If I go to the doctor here because I'm in bad shape I'm as likely to get a prescription for fruit or gym classes as pills. Imagine that!


Must be nice. You live in Finland right?
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby OP ED » Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:32 pm

slimmouse » Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:03 pm wrote:
Agent Orange Cooper » 12 Sep 2016 20:34 wrote:LOL, yes listen to the experts, as long as the experts are the ones who agree with the prevailing medical establishment which is totally not profit driven and/or serving a globalist agenda of eugenics and creating a legion of sick people and barely functioning children.

the experts who do not agree with the establishment are not to be considered, even if they have the exact same credentials as all the other 'experts.'

what a joke these conversations always turn out to be.


Nuff said reallly..


A legion of sick people over fifty is better than most people dying at 30. I'm never going to understand how some of you interpret what I consider fairly basic mathematics. Its extremely obvious that millions of children used to die from diseases that kill almost no one in modern western countries. (Except the unvaccinated)
If this is a eugenics program then they're sure doing a shit job of it. There are more people alive than dead, and the balance isn't showing any signs of swinging the other way.

There are many reasons why, for example, we don't just take some mom's word for it when it comes to diagnostics, the fact that she's not a doctor would be prime, but there's also the potential for undiscovered child abusers and suchlike concerns which could greatly hamper proper treatment quite aside from other moral obligations.

I like having regulations. I don't want a return to the good olde days of leeches and icepicks, "hysteria", heroin and cigarettes used to treat asthma and etc etc. We did that already and we used to die a lot younger back then.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Burnt Hill » Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:47 pm

OP ED » Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:32 pm wrote:
A legion of sick people over fifty is better than most people dying at 30.


For the pharmaceutical industry, yeah? :wink
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby identity » Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:53 pm

The best conspiracy is a conspiracy of one, but seeing more and more professionals coming out in support of CD I'm changing my mind (shocking, I know).


Evil (hope you don't mind if I address you without your professional title), I would be grateful if you would point me to articles published—say, in the decade between 2002 and 2012—in peer-reviewed science and engineering journals (not crackpot 9/11 Studies publications!) that lay out, with rigor, the case for controlled demolition of the towers and building seven.

Thanks!

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It would be even worse if we allowed scientific orthodoxy to become the Inquisition.

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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby identity » Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:54 pm

Burnt Hill » Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:47 pm wrote:
OP ED » Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:32 pm wrote:
A legion of sick people over fifty is better than most people dying at 30.


For the pharmaceutical industry, yeah? :wink


I was gonna say...
We should never forget Galileo being put before the Inquisition.
It would be even worse if we allowed scientific orthodoxy to become the Inquisition.

Richard Smith, Editor in Chief of the British Medical Journal 1991-2004,
in a published letter to Nature
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby backtoiam » Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:02 pm

OP ED

If this is a eugenics program then they're sure doing a shit job of it. There are more people alive than dead, and the balance isn't showing any signs of swinging the other way.


I prefer not to call it a eugenics program. I prefer to call it a sick care program. We need to ask ourselves why they took the word cure out of the medical dictionaries as the article DnC demonstrated. Its a dirty word as it makes no money. The perps hope you live a long time with symptoms they can treat. Its the way it works. That is way too uncomfortable for most people to grok but its true. People are living longer mainly due to improved sanitation and living conditions and better access to food.

OP ED

There are many reasons why, for example, we don't just take some mom's word for it when it comes to diagnostics, the fact that she's not a doctor would be prime, but there's also the potential for undiscovered child abusers and suchlike concerns which could greatly hamper proper treatment quite aside from other moral obligations.


Surely you jest. On a comparative measure how many mothers do you think there are that harm their babies as compared to a for profit healthcare system? Seriously? I'm speechless. As I alluded to our doctors have a shit education and you are far better researching your own illnesses. If you do, watch your doctors eyes glaze over when you explain your illness to him in great detail because you are teaching him things he has no clue about. They don't have time to research specific illnesses and become an expert in them. They were taught to sell drugs. The honest ones will tell you they don't know instead of blowing smoke up your ass. I know. I watched it for years.

OP ED

I like having regulations. I don't want a return to the good olde days of leeches and icepicks, "hysteria", heroin and cigarettes used to treat asthma and etc etc. We did that already and we used to die a lot younger back then.


Regulations are great depending upon who is in control of them and the wrong people are in control of them. Those ice pick days are over and its a non-starter even for a elementary school level debate. One day the future will also laugh at us for what we do now. Chemo will be the laughing stock of them all, and probably compulsory 60 vaccinations before age 10 too. But alas, the profit monger will have even better methods of compliance and new snake oil to play with by then.

I can tell when I am debating someone that has not worked in the medical field for years and I am not interested in going ten pages under those conditions. Waste of my time.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Burnt Hill » Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:22 pm

Well, Doctors don't really "cure" disease and illnesses. They treat the people that have disease and illnesses.
Not sure there is a conspiracy in regards to the word itself - though I haven't really considered it.
Medical professionals typically refer to Taber's Medical Dictionary (amongst many others, of course), I don't have a copy handy, I will have to get back to us on that.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby backtoiam » Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:57 pm

DrEvil » Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:43 pm wrote:And the "experts" who consistently lie, fudge the numbers, do bad research and misrepresent the data are any better?

Seriously, almost every single article and video by anti-vaxxers posted in this thread is guilty of one or more of the above, and still you trust those fuckers?

I don't so much hate anti-vaxxers because they oppose vaccines (well, that too), but the consistently dishonest way they go about it. They start from the conclusion that vaccines are bad, recruit people with the same opinions to do their "resarch" and mold their arguments to fit their reality, consequences be damned.
It's so god damn sloppy and only serves to make them look like idiots.

You're scraping the bottom of the barrel. Post something with some fucking rigor and intellectual honesty and maybe I'll listen. Right now you sound like the crazy end of the climate change denial crowd.

I also noticed that none of you have mentioned the numbers of deaths before and after vaccines that I posted. What's the problem? They don't fit with your preconceived notions so they should be ignored?

And just out of morbid curiosity: what do you guys propose as an alternative to vaccines?


The natural biological process of herd immunity has been around as long as humans. Destroying it is a sin against nature and man itself and that is what we are currently doing.

Anti-vaxxers, climate change deniers, etc...You enjoy those derogatory labels but they don't count for much.

I worked in a corrupted medical system for many years and you don't even have one in your country so i'm not sure you would be able to truly recognize the nuances and signs of one and certainly not what it is like to have live with one. You are looking from afar. I speak from the experience of having worked in one and endured one as a patient.

Dr. Evil I'm not sure how you fall into these "the science is settled" paradigms. The people that are involved in the distribution of medicines and vaccines are making astronomical profits. The people calling for vaccine safety are by and large spending their own time, effort, and money to reign in a Goliath. That should speak volumes to you all by itself. Altruism vs. profit. At least they are doing research and its obvious somebody is not.

Instead of spending a few hundred hours like I have studying the toxic nature of the ingredients and the overly aggressive administration schedule of vaccines you would rather impeach the source.

I ONCE SOLD INJECTABLE MEDICINES BY THE WAY.

What to use in the place of vaccines is actually not a conundrum nor valid. Humans managed fine without them although they lived in squalid and unsanitary disease infested conditions. Much of that has improved. We have access to clean water which has eliminated an enormous number of diseases. We no longer have to scrounge around in the dirt eating whatever we have access to. We have grocery stores and can eat a variety of foods with various vitamins and minerals which has also eliminated a lot of diseases. However the tide is turning on that because the bountiful and varied food supply we enjoy is now being poisoned with chemicals and pesticides so sickness is on its way back in fashion.

I want you notice the dates on the doctor's opinions. They knew a long time ago something was running off the rails and it has gotten no better. Back then it was safer to speak out and you can see that more doctors from high level perches did so. It is no longer safe to speak out if a career is to be maintained.

Of course there is a well funded debunker site out there you can go find to criticize this information instead of spending a few dozen hours doing research.

It is plainly obvious to me that not only have you not spent hundreds of hours studying this, you have not even spent dozens, and actually far fewer than that, if any at all. It is obvious to me that you have not waded through thousands of medical studies in your life like I have. And these days so many studies are rigged pieces of shit it takes a good eye to tell the shit from the fruit.

Why should I waste my time posting something rigorous so you can run to Snopes or a well funded big medicine protection site and slap it on the table and waste my time instead of doing your own research?

I'm not gonna do it. I'm prolly done with this circus for now. And I don't consider your post very rigorous either, although I sort of like you. I speak from many years of personal experience in the industry and that is where my knowledge comes from and I won't go ten pages attempting to debate someone that has convinced themselves and simply wants to argue for the sake of argument.



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http://www.vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1.html

The above graphs, based on the official death numbers as recorded in the Official Year Books of the Commonwealth of Australia, are taken from Greg Beattie's excellent book "Vaccination A Parent's Dilemma" and represent the decline in death rates from infectious disease in Australia. They clearly show that vaccines had nothing to do with the decline in death rates. (Note: Graphical evidence on the decline in death rates from infectious disease for USA, England, New Zealand and many other countries shows the exact same scenario as above).

http://www.vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1.html




Look how old these dates are. These guys could still speak out back then but it is no longer safe to do so. Not to mention the most influential positions have been rapidly absorbed into the belly of the beast in the last few decades. And no, vaccines are not safer because of our glorious new technology. As a matter of fact a huge group of doctors attempted to get Goliath to use Hydrogen Peroxide which breaks down into harmless components as a preservative in some vaccines but for some mysterious reason (not mysterious really) the beast said "NO."


"There is a great deal of evidence to prove that immunisation of children does more harm than good."
Dr J Anthony Morris, former Chief Vaccine Control Officer, US Food
and Drug Administration

"The greatest threat of childhood disease lies in the dangerous and
ineffectual efforts made to prevent them through mass immunisation."
Dr R. Mendelsohn, Author and Professor of Paediatrics (How To Raise A Healthy Child In Spite Of Your Doctor)

"In our opinion, there is now sufficient evidence of immune malfunction following current vaccination programmes to anticipate growing public demands for research investigation into alternative methods of prevention of infectious disease."
Dr's H. Buttram and J. Hoffman (Vaccinations and Immune Malfunctions)

"All vaccination has the effect of directing the three values of the blood
into or toward the zone characteristics of cancer and leukemia...Vaccines DO predispose to cancer and leukaemia."
Professor L.C. Vincent, Founder of Bioelectronics

"Every vaccine carries certain hazards and can produce inward reactions in some people...in general, there are more vaccine complications than is generally appreciated."
Professor George Dick, London University

"Official data have shown that the large-scale vaccinations undertaken in the US have failed to obtain any significant improvement of the diseases against which they were supposed to provide protection."
Dr A. Sabin, developer of the Oral Polio vaccine (lecture to Italian doctors in Piacenza, Italy, Decemebr 7th 1985)

"In addition to the many obvious cases of mortality from these practises,
there are also long-term hazards which are almost impossible to estimate
accurately...the inherent danger of of all vaccine procedures should be a
deterrent to their unnecessary or unjustifiable use."
Sir Graham Wilson (The Hazards of Immunisation)

"Laying aside the very real possibility that the various vaccines are
contaminated with animal viruses and may cause serious illness later in life (multiple sclerosis, cancer, leukaemia, etc) we must consider whether the vaccines really work for their intended purpose."
Dr W.C. Douglas (Cutting Edge, May 1990)

"The only wholly safe vaccine is a vaccine that is never used"
Dr James A. Shannon, National Institute of Health, USA

With reference to Smallpox;

"Vaccination is a monstrosity, a misbegotten offspring of error and
ignorance, it should have no place in either hygiene or medicine...Believe not in vaccination, it is a world-wide delusion, an unscientific practise, a fatal superstition with consequences measured today by tears and sorrow without end."
Professor Chas Rauta, University of Perguia, Italy , (New York Medical Journal July 1899)

"Vaccination does not protect, it actually renders its subjects more
susceptible by depressing vital power and diminishing natural resistance, and millions of people have died of smallpox which they contracted after being vaccinated."
Dr J.W. Hodge (The Vaccination Superstition)

"It is nonsense to think that you can inject pus - and it is usually from the pustule end of the dead smallpox victim … it is unthinkable that you can inject that into a little child and in any way improve its health. What is true of vaccination is exactly as true of all forms of serum immunisation, if we could by any means build up a natural resistance to disease through these artificial means, I would applaud it to the echo, but we can't do it."
Dr William Howard Hay (lecture to Medical Freedom Society, June 25th 1937)

"Immunisation against smallpox is more hazardous than the disease itself."
Professor Ari Zuckerman, World Health Organisation

With reference to Whooping Cough;

"There is no doubt in my mind that in the UK alone some hundreds, if not thousands of well infants have suffered irreparable brain damage needlessly and that their lives and those of their parents have been wrecked in consequence."
Professor Gordon Stewart, University of Glasgow (Here's Health, March 1980)

"My suspicion, which is shared by others in my profession, is that the
nearly 10,000 SIDS deaths that occur in the US each year are related to one or more of the vaccines that are routinely given to children. The pertussis (whooping cough) vaccine is the most likely villain , but it could also be one or more of the others."
Dr R Mendelsohn, Author and Professor of Paediatrics (How To Raise A Healthy Child In Spite Of Your Doctor)

"The worst vaccine of all is the whooping cough vaccine...it is responsible for a lot of deaths and for a lot of infants suffering irreversible brain damage.."
Dr Archie Kalokerinos, Author and Vaccine Researcher (Natural Health Convention, Stanwell Tops, NSW, Australia 1987)

With reference to Polio;

"Many here voice a silent view that the Salk and Sabin polio vaccine, being made of monkey kidney tissue has been directly responsible for the major increase in leukaemia in this country."
Dr F. Klenner, Polio Researcher, USA

"No batch of vaccine can be proved to be safe before it is given to
children"
Surgeon General Leonard Scheele (AMA Convention 1955, USA)

"Live virus vaccines against influenza and paralytic polio, for example, may in each instance cause the disease it is intended to prevent..."
Dr Jonas Salk, developer of first polio vaccine (Science 4/4/77 Abstracts)

http://www.vaclib.org/sites/debate/web3.html





And my final word on it is this, if you really trust the current western medical paradigm to guide you down the slippery slope of compulsory medicine god bless your soul because you will need God by the time they get through with you. Vaccines have become compulsory and so will more medicines.

oh wait, you live in fairy land where you have a real medical system, so you won't need God...must be nice to be so wise and arm chair quarterback from afar. I don't even know why you are so interested and obsessed since you don't have to deal with such a fucked up mess as ours.

and on edit wait just a damn minute.
What is going on here? I am talking to the guy that a while back indicated that people that believe food can cure medicine are crazy, quacks, stupid, or which ever one of your words you used. I don't remember exactly. I believe I sited scurvy and vitamin c as an example for you and you never replied back to that I don't think.

And now you are telling me your doctor might prescribe fruit or a trip to the gym? What gives here? If you live in a place where food and nutrition are recognized as medicine and can cure disease why were you being derogatory against people that believe food and nutrition can cure disease? What gives? Something strange about that, real strange.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Agent Orange Cooper » Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:15 pm

well said backto. let's also not forget that vaccines as a product need to pass no clinical trials before they are pushed on the american public, which is different from every other medication. vaccines as a whole are exempt, they are in another class entirely. they are as American (corporate-owned and corporate-sold) as Coca-Cola.

go to any of the big department stores in America right now, or Walgreen's, and you will see them SELLING people flu shots the way they sell hershey's chocolate or whatever. sign up for our credit card and you'll get a FREE flu shot! it is a business that makes hundreds of billions of dollars a year. has nothing at all to do with public health. it is anti-health. buy one, get one free! it's disgusting and nobody bats an eye, nobody thinks it's even strange. Franz Kafka would have an aneurysm if he saw the byzantine level of this insanity.

anybody who has actually watched that movie VAXXED (as I have) will know that it is a completely legit documentary about an actual whistleblower inside the CDC, DrEvil's scarywary ad hominems about Andy Wakefield aside. Wakefield, who is another guy pilloried and misrepresented and demonized by the same establishment media that has sold us all Hillary and Trump, is a fucking heroic figure in my book (and the one history will eventually write). if anything VAXXED undersells its point.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby OP ED » Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:24 pm

Surely I don't jest. Of course it would depend on what you mean by "harm" if we're talking about mothers harming children. Child abuse and maltreatment rates have dropped significantly in the United States over the last few decades even as the criteria has become broader. But if we include neglect leading to injury or poor health even at today's lower rates we'd be looking at about ten to twenty percent of mothers who do these things, for various reasons. About one quarter of children are victims of at least moderate neglect at some point in their young lives and mothers are disproportionately responsible primarily because they're disproportionately responsible for child care in general. More opportunities for even honest mistakes. Poverty (and its related symptoms such as substance abuse) is often a contributor.

I don't have time right the moment to appreciate your other statements in full, homework and such, but I will attempt to get a better look later on.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby backtoiam » Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:34 pm

Agent Orange Cooper

well said backto. let's also not forget that vaccines as a product need to pass no clinical trials before they are pushed on the american public, which is different from every other medication. vaccines as a whole are exempt, they are in another class entirely. they are as American (corporate-owned and corporate-sold) as Coca-Cola.


Which is exactly why they protected themselves from prosecution and jumped behind the protective curtain with the man in the Wizard Of Oz. Truth be known studies and trials have been done and the results were so poor they were never to see the light of day.

The clinical trials business is also so damn shady it is pathetic. I know a man that owns a company that does clinical trials for various medications. He is so filthy wealthy it is unreal. It is a sinister business. They prey on people with the I.Q. of a tennis shoe that have no idea what they are getting into. Some seem borderline retarded. Some are just seriously desperate for any pennies they can get. A few are of average intelligence and are just not using common senses to protect themselves. Once they sign that waiver it doesn't matter what happens to them, there is nothing anybody can do about it.


OP ED

Poverty (and its related symptoms such as substance abuse) is often a contributor.


I would say it is at the top of the list probably and there isn't much mainstream medicine can do about that. Junk food is about the only thing available to them that is in their price range. Sadly shady deals are being done between junk food companies and school lunch programs and junk food is invading school lunch programs with a increasing speed.
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