Vaccine - Autism link

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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:58 pm

You both hold firmly to opposing viewpoints. I have long been under the impression that a very many illnesses are caused through direct and indirect exposure to toxins. Literally millions of new chemical compounds are created every year and only about 65,000 are monitored through regulation. Many fat soluble toxins are passed from mother to child through nursing.

If science is to be ignored we can only speak to our own experiences,. In my case as a parent of two, neither child throughout their vaccination years suffered any negative reactions and they received all that were suggested. I know of no one personally who has had a child that suffered from extreme reactions to having been vaccinated.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Agent Orange Cooper » Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:19 pm

Iamwhomiam » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:58 pm wrote:If science is to be ignored we can only speak to our own experiences.


I resent the implication that science is being ignored here, especially considering I posted something like 15 or 20 peer-reviewed studies dealing with the subject just a few pages back, which were resoundly ignored. And even if science were being ignored, speaking to our own experiences is exactly what the MANY mothers and fathers of vaccine-damaged children have been doing for a long time now. They are also ignored. Why are your experiences (which, not knowing the full details of your childrens' medical history, I honestly can't take very seriously) more 'reliable' than theirs?

Here's a new study from the International Journal of Vaccines and Vaccination:

Link to study: http://medcraveonline.com/IJVV/IJVV-04-00072.pdf
Link to summary of study: http://info.cmsri.org/the-driven-resear ... ntaminants

Every Human Vaccine Tested Was Contaminated by Unsafe Levels of Metals and Debris Linked to Cancer and Autoimmune Disease, New Study Reports

Researchers examining 44 samples of 30 different vaccines found dangerous contaminants, including red blood cells in one vaccine and metal toxicants in every single sample tested – except in one animal vaccine.

Using extremely sensitive new technologies not used in vaccine manufacturing, Italian scientists reported they were “baffled” by their discoveries which included single particles and aggregates of organic debris including red cells of human or possibly animal origin and metals including lead, tungsten, gold, and chromium, that have been linked to autoimmune disease and leukemia.

In the study, published this week in the International Journal of Vaccines and Vaccination, the researchers led by Antonietta Gatti, of the National Council of Research of Italy and the Scientific Director of Nanodiagnostics, say their results “show the presence of micro- and nano-sized particulate matter composed of inorganic elements in vaccine samples” not declared in the products’ ingredients lists.

Lead particles were found in the cervical cancer vaccines, Gardasil and Cervarix, for example, and in the seasonal flu vaccine Aggripal manufactured by Novartis as well as in the Meningetec vaccine meant to protect against meningitis C.

Samples of an infant vaccine called Infarix Hexa (against diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, hepatitis B, poliomyelitis and haemophilus influenzae type B) manufactured by GlaxoSmithKline was found to contain stainless steel, tungsten and a gold-zinc aggregate.

Other metal contaminants included platinum, silver, bismuth, iron, and chromium. Chromium (alone or in alloy with iron and nickel) was identified in 25 of the human vaccines from Italy and France that were tested.

GSK’s Fluarix vaccine for children three years and older contained 11 metals and aggregates of metals. Similar aggregates to those identified in the vaccines have been shown to be prevalent in cases of leukemia, the researchers noted.

Many of the vaccines contained iron and iron alloys which, according to the researchers, “can corrode and the corrosion products exert a toxicity affecting the tissues”.

The researchers supply an image of an area in a drop of Sanofi Pasteur MSD’s Repevax (diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus, polio) vaccine “where the morphology of red cells - we cannot tell whether they are human or animal- is clearly visible” along with the presence of “debris” composed of aluminum, bromine, silicon, potassium and titanium.

Feligen, the only veterinary vaccine tested in the 44 total vaccines sampled, proved to be the only sample free from inorganic contamination.

The investigation revealed aluminum and sodium chloride, the usual component of saline, as was expected, because they are named ingredients of most vaccines. Using a Field Emission Gun Environmental Electron Scanning Microscope, the researchers produced photos of this aluminum salt which formed white crystalline branches similar to frost on a windowpane on the top of the droplets of vaccine liquid. A German-made vaccine against allergies produced a layer of inorganic salts so thick that the researchers could not penetrate the drop to detect other particulate contaminants.

Aluminum has a documented neurotoxicity all by itself. The French veterinary vaccines exclude it for this reason. The human ones don’t. The researchers express concern about synergy of multiple toxins added to this known neurotoxin. “It is a well-known fact in toxicology that contaminants exert a mutual, synergic effect, and as the number of contaminants increases, the effects grow less and less predictable. The more so when some substances are unknown.”

“The quantity of foreign bodies detected and, in some cases, their unusual chemical compositions baffled us,” the researchers note. “In most circumstances, the combinations detected are very odd as they have no technical use, cannot be found in any material handbook and look like the result of the random formation occurring, for example, when waste is burnt. In any case, whatever their origin, they should not be present in any injectable medicament, let alone in vaccines, more in particular those meant for infants.”

Undesirable impact

The study explains that these foreign injected impurities may explain a vast array of apparently unrelated adverse events associated with vaccination from headaches and seizures to fatigue, muscle pain, paralysis and sudden infant death syndrome. More likely than not, they speculate, vaccine contaminants will “have a more serious impact on very small organisms like those of children.”

Once inside a body, foreign material in a vaccine shot, whether it is meant to be there as in the case of an aluminum, or not, in the case of contaminants, launches the formidable immune system into action.

As with anything small and foreign, its reaction to vaccine ingredients is potent, poorly understood, unpredictable, and as the Italian researchers say, may be “undesirable.” The immune system may dispatch an army of large white blood cells called macrophages to engulf the foreign bodies and contain them in swellings and granulomas at the injection site. But if the contaminants are swept away in the blood’s circulation to any distant site or organ including the microbiota, which regulate numerous functions including the immune system, their effect could be felt long after they covertly entered the body.

In some cases, the immune system my initiate an inflammatory assault against what it perceives as invader. This may include the launch of a host of players called cytokines. Some of these chemical messengers like interleukin-6 are incriminated in autism.

Because these contaminants may persist in the body and stimulate the immune system, they may induce chronic inflammation and can manifest as autoimmune diseases when the immune system turns on its host's own cells as in multiple sclerosis or type 1 diabetes.

It’s also been shown that the contaminants found in the vaccines can enter cell nuclei and interact with DNA, the researchers note. No one knows what that can do.

Dark history

Vaccines have a long and sordid history of contamination. In 1955 batches of polio vaccine containing live polio virus infected and paralysed hundreds of children. The tragedy became known as the Cutter Incident for the laboratory where the vaccines had passed safety tests with flying colors.

But there are dozens of other “incidents” which would better be called acts of criminal negligence, including:

The polio vaccine doled out between 1955 and 1963 was contaminated with simian virus 40 (SV40) from monkey kidney cells used to produce the vaccine. It’s been linked to the growing epidemic of cancer.

In 2007, Merck & Company, Inc. recalled 1.2 million doses of Hib vaccines due to contamination with bacteria called cereus, a potentially lethal food-poisoning bug.

In 2009, more than 40,000 doses of a meningitis C vaccine for babies were withdrawn from the British market when they were found to be contaminated with blood-poisoning bacteria, S aureus.

In 2010, deep sequence analysis of eight different live attenuated virus vaccines revealed unexpected viral sequences in three of them: retrovirus avian leukosis was found in a measles vaccine, a virus similar to simian retrovirus was identified in Rotateq anti-diarrhea vaccine developed by CDC consultant Paul Offit, and the entire genome sequence of porcine cirovirus1 was found in Rotarix leading the FDA to suspend the rotavirus vaccine.

In 2014, The US Food and Drug Administration ordered GlaxoSmithKline to review the manufacturing operation of its flu vaccine when it found microbiological contamination of products purporting to be sterile.

In 2013, Merck & Company, Inc. recalled one batch of Gardasil when glass particles were discovered in several phials.

Recently it was reported that Sanofi Pasteur refused to recall its ActHIB vaccine for babies, even though it knew it was contaminated with glass shards. The FDA didn’t object.

There are dozens of these cases, and even if vaccine manufacturers are issued multiple “warnings” action is rarely ever taken to clean the vaccine manufacture process. Since pharmaceutical companies have blanket indemnity from lawsuits for faulty vaccines, there is no incentive for them to clean up their act.

Clear and present danger

The study investigators conclude that the vaccine contamination they found is likely accidental. “Our hypothesis is that this contamination is unintentional, since it is probably due to polluted components or procedures of industrial processes (e.g. filtrations) used to produce vaccines, not investigated and not detected by the Producers”.

Discussion about why pharmaceutical companies don’t produce clean vaccines is one thing. But the reality of vaccines as they are now is another. It doesn’t change what is being injected into millions of people today. Dangerous unintended toxins are in every one of the vaccines tested in this investigation, except one for cats.

This research doesn’t just show that vaccines are full of crud that top scientists can’t even define. It makes a mockery of health oversight agencies like the FDA and CDC and their lies that vaccines undergo adequate safety checks and risk assessment.

It doesn’t merely reveal that the long-term consequences of vaccinating cannot even be assessed. If anti-cancer vaccines like Gardasil and Cervarix contain cancer-causing aggregates of toxic metals, their use as a weapon against a cancer a girl has zero chance of getting before age 21 is not just useless. It is egregious abuse.

Now, every vaccine’s claims to saving lives must be weighed against its risks of causing cancer, neurodevelopmental disease, autoimmune disease and every other immune-mediated “mystery” disorder now epidemic and soaring.

The results of these investigations not only negate every assertion that vaccines are “safe and effective”, but they confirm that they are actually a clear and present danger.

The Children’s Medical Safety Research Institute (CMSRI) is a medical and scientific collaborative established to provide research funding for independent studies on causal factors underlying the chronic disease and disability epidemic.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:44 pm

It matters little to me that you resent what I wrote, Agent Orange. I haven't the time or the will to enter into debating whose peer-reviewed science is more valid. I'm certainly not going to take the time to investigate the science and details of any research, regardless the topic or my interest in it. I have better things to do, things I must do with my time. And so all on this topic I can relate with any certainty is my own experience with vaccinations, mine and my children's, though I could extend that to my siblings four children and four grandchildren, as none of these had negative reactions to vaccines. As I earlier wrote, it is a matter of personal choice, whether informed or not on the sciences and the risks. I cannot say that although another might not choose the same path as mine, their choice is the wrong choice for them to have chosen.

Perhaps you'll find something in my opinion you might want to argue?
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Agent Orange Cooper » Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:26 pm

And it matters little to me that it matters little to you. I don't want to argue about this either, at all. I only wanted to state, for the record, that I am not the one 'ignoring science' here. I posted reams of scientific studies, and there are a ton more out there. That's all.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby elfismiles » Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:57 pm

Apologies for the source... wasn't really aware of Dr. Suzanne Humphries here in Austin.
http://drsuzanne.net
Image
Image
FBI tries to frame Dr. Suzanne Humphries for her own death threats

Vaccine science analyst Dr. Suzanne Humphries receives death threats for daring to oppose the vaccine establishment’s toxic lies. Mike Adams and Dr. Suzanne Humphries talk about this frightening topic in this weeks episode of CounterThink.
Posted on 6/4/2018

https://vimeo.com/273341600
http://counterthink.com/CounterThink-Ep ... hries.html

Incompetent FBI tried to frame Dr. Suzanne Humphries for death threats; Natural News proved her innocence
Tuesday, June 05, 2018 by: Mike Adams
https://www.naturalnews.com/2018-06-05- ... reats.html
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Agent Orange Cooper » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:21 pm

She's fantastic. I just saw a long in-depth interview with her in the 9-part Vaccines Revealed documentary, and her book is in the mail:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1480216895

Dissolving Illusions: Disease, Vaccines, and The Forgotten History
"Not too long ago, lethal infections were feared in the Western world. Since that time, many countries have undergone a transformation from disease cesspools to much safer, healthier habitats. Starting in the mid-1800s, there was a steady drop in deaths from all infectious diseases, decreasing to relatively minor levels by the early 1900s. The history of that transformation involves famine, poverty, filth, lost cures, eugenicist doctrine, individual freedoms versus state might, protests and arrests over vaccine refusal, and much more. Today, we are told that medical interventions increased our lifespan and single-handedly prevented masses of deaths. But is this really true? Dissolving Illusions details facts and figures from long-overlooked medical journals, books, newspapers, and other sources. Using myth-shattering graphs, this book shows that vaccines, antibiotics, and other medical interventions are not responsible for the increase in lifespan and the decline in mortality from infectious diseases. If the medical profession could systematically misinterpret and ignore key historical information, the question must be asked, “What else is ignored and misinterpreted today?” Perhaps the best reason to know our history is so that the worst parts are never repeated."




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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby DrEvil » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:53 pm

Agent Orange Cooper » Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:19 pm wrote:
Iamwhomiam » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:58 pm wrote:If science is to be ignored we can only speak to our own experiences.


I resent the implication that science is being ignored here, especially considering I posted something like 15 or 20 peer-reviewed studies dealing with the subject just a few pages back, which were resoundly ignored. And even if science were being ignored, speaking to our own experiences is exactly what the MANY mothers and fathers of vaccine-damaged children have been doing for a long time now. They are also ignored. Why are your experiences (which, not knowing the full details of your childrens' medical history, I honestly can't take very seriously) more 'reliable' than theirs?

Here's a new study from the International Journal of Vaccines and Vaccination:

Link to study: http://medcraveonline.com/IJVV/IJVV-04-00072.pdf
Link to summary of study: http://info.cmsri.org/the-driven-resear ... ntaminants

... snip ...


I didn't see this until now but it's horseshit. Published in a predatory journal and written by someone not qualified in the field.

https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skeptic ... -bad-data/

Another anti-vaccine article – bad journal, bad data

Here we go again. An anti-vaccine article was published in a journal, and now every vaccine denier will use it as absolute “proof” that vaccines are evil, bad, and useless. And that means one of the pro-science community has to provide a critical analysis so that those on the fence know what is supported and not supported by real science.

The article, “New Quality-Control Investigations on Vaccines: Micro- and Nanocontamination,” published in the International Journal of Vaccines and Vaccination on 23 January 2017. I want to examine this from the meta level, discussing the quality of the journal, down to the actual data. Spoiler alert – it’s bad.

The journal that published the anti-vaccine article

Let’s start right up at the top. The journal, International Journal of Vaccines and Vaccination, is published by MedCrave, which is included on Beall’s List of Predatory Publishers, a list used by researchers and librarians across the world to distinguish between high quality and predatory journals.

What’s a predatory publisher? It is is an exploitative open-access publishing model that involves charging publication and other fees to authors without providing the editorial and publishing services associated with legitimate journals (open access or not). Although predatory publishers occasionally use some sort of peer-review process, it is not as robust or unbiased as you would find with higher quality journals.

The International Journal of Vaccines and Vaccination charges authors of research papers from $589 to $989 to publish. So let’s be honest – are the “peer reviewers” actually going to reject a paper and forgo the publishing fee? This is why predatory publishers are under such scrutiny for the quality of their research.

The editorial board of the journal, which is an indicator of the quality and prestige of the journal, is made up of unknowns in the vaccine research field. It has a relatively large proportion of non-academic individuals which is a major concern to me.

The journal and it’s articles are not listed in PubMed, which is the database that includes nearly all biomedical research published across the world. This means that the journal, despite being around for 2 years, is so insignificant, it can’t get a spot in the database. Finally, the journal is so rarely cited that it doesn’t even have an impact factor, a measurement of the scientific respect for a journal.

Let me be clear – a research article published in a poor quality journal run by a predatory publisher is not an absolute reason to reject science presented therein, but it is a strong indicator. I always ask this question – if this data were so important, why wasn’t it published in a respected journal in the field, like Vaccine?

The article

First, let me state that if this article was “peer reviewed,” they failed on many levels. I found several misspellings, including “alluminum,” for aluminum, which is not even a non-standard English spelling of the element. These are basic things that indicate, to me, a lack of editorial and peer review. And if they couldn’t check the spelling, how can I trust that they checked the science.

The corresponding author, Antonietta Gatti, is a bioengineer whose background seems to be in materials science. She has absolutely no background in areas that would be germane to the claims made by this paper – toxicology, immunology, or other fields that would give the paper some credibility as to what the results mean.

And that leads to the most important issue – the results themselves. The researchers used an environmental scanning electron microscope to examine particles in, usually, biological materials. It can find relatively tiny amounts of inorganic or organic matter in something like vaccines. Despite the rather impressive looking photos and data, remember that microscopy has a substantial amount of subjective analysis attached to it. With this microscope, the researchers looked at 44 different vaccines, looking for particles and using a probe to identify the chemical makeup of those particles.

The authors claim that “this new investigation show the presence of micro- and nanosized particulate matter composed of inorganic elements in vaccines’ samples which is not declared among the components and whose unduly presence is, for the time being, inexplicable.”

But let’s assume the data is all gathered in an objective manner. What does it mean?

The data presented looks all scary. All these complicated chemical names in a list. Almost all of them are simple metal salts or ions that are common contaminants. Here’s the problem – if dose makes the poison, that is, anything can be a poison or not be a poison, depending on the dose, then what dose are we getting?

Therein lies the most problematic issue with the data. The numbers are well below the level of biological activity, if these various chemicals even have biological activity (most don’t). For example, the authors found 1569 particles or precipitates in one drop of Cervarix (an anti-HPV vaccine). Sounds horrific right? Except that one drop of vaccine contains around 1.39 X 10^21 individual molecules. This so called contamination approximately 0.0000000000000000000719% of these so called contaminants.

In that Cervarix sample, the researchers found aluminum hydroxide, one of those scary sounding compounds. Let’s say every one of those 1569 particles was aluminum hydroxide, it would mean that around 0.000000000001 ng of aluminum hydroxide in a vial of vaccine. That is simply biologically irrelevant. Even if the aluminum hydroxide was found, it’s level is so low, that the human body wouldn’t notice it. You breathe in more aluminum on a normal day than you would ever find in a vial of vaccine.

This is a ridiculous exercise in scare tactics by the anti-vaccine crowd. These researchers tried to find contaminants at non-biological levels in an attempt to say “hey, these vaccines are contaminated by junk.” Well they aren’t. Vaccine manufacturers are fastidious in the design and running of their manufacturing plants. But unless you believe in unicorns, which I don’t, there is no to get perfectly “clean” manufacturing.

Let me put it another way. If this research is accurate, it tells me that vaccine manufacturing is about as close to “pure” as one can get. These contaminants are so low as they are only detectable by the most sensitive pieces of equipment (if I were to buy into this being a valid method of detecting contaminants). The numbers are so low, that they’re not even close to being biologically active, and more potent sources for these contaminants can be found in food, water and air.

Which leads me to another point. Where are the controls? What is the contamination in ultra pure water in a glass vial sealed with a cap? You’d probably find the same data if not worse, but I can only speculate because the researchers didn’t give me a comparison point, one of the basic standards for good scientific research.

Note of irony – not a single contaminant was identified as mercury. Not a one.

Of course, the anti-vaccine forces jumped all over this research. The Children’s Medical Safety Research Institute (CMSRI), which is a new one to me, jumped in with a press release, “Dirty Vaccines: New study reveals prevalence of contaminants,” that pontificates:

Researchers examining 44 samples of 30 different vaccines found dangerous contaminants, including red blood cells in one vaccine and metal toxicants in every single sample tested – except in one animal vaccine.

Using extremely sensitive new technologies not used in vaccine manufacturing, Italian scientists reported they were “baffled” by their discoveries which included single particles and aggregates of organic debris including red cells of human or possibly animal origin and metals including lead, tungsten, gold, and chromium, that have been linked to autoimmune disease and leukemia.


Baffled? Only if you don’t understand toxicology. Linked to autoimmune disease? Only if you receive thousands of trillions of doses of these vaccines, since the levels are simply so far below biologically active that I’d wear out my “0” key showing the level found in these vaccines.

By the way, if you’re unfamiliar with CMSRI, let’s take a look at the scientific advisory board (shout out to Dr. David Gorski for pointing this out first). Three of them are notorious anti-vaccine researchers, who publish, generally, in predatory or low impact factor journals, using the lamest of non-scientific methodology to make their point:

Dr. Christopher Shaw – I have written about this ophthalmologist (not an immunologist, virologist, epidemiologist, or anything related to vaccines) numerous times. One of his articles, written with his partner in junk medicine, Lucija Tomljenovic, was recently retracted. He often uses methods that use population level data from non medical sources to try to link vaccines to various adverse effects.

Dr. Yehuda Shoenfeld – another anti-vaccine “researcher” who actually has reasonable credentials in vaccine research. However, he has gone off the rails, becoming anti-Gardasil by claiming that it (and other vaccines) causes “Autoimmune Syndrome Induced by Adjuvants (ASIA),” which has been thoroughly debunked by real scientists. As the loquacious Orac said about him, “Shoenfeld is best known for coining the term ‘ASIA.’ Did I say ‘coin the term?’ Really, I should have said ‘pulled the term out of his nether regions, leaving a coating of what one’s nether regions generally expels all over it.’ Because ASIA is a made-up syndrome with no compelling evidence that it’s real. Basically, as I’ve described before, its criteria are so vague as to be able to be applied to almost anything.” Note to self – learn to write like that.

Dr. Stephanie Seneff – one of the popular “go to fake researchers,” who has absolutely no background in anything to do with vaccines. None. She also uses population level studies, which don’t have medical value, to make all kinds of wild correlations between diseases and populations, without a scintilla of evidence of causation. She also is in love with predatory and low impact factor journals. Once again, turning to the wordy, but colorful, Orac, who reviewed a paper from her – “Seneff et al, do, torture epidemiology to try to blame autism on not just aluminum adjuvants but, as the title advertises, acetaminophen, and, as the title doesn’t advertise, mercury. In fact, now that I read it, I almost have to doff my cap in tribute. Rarely have I seen so much antivaccine pseudoscience packed into a single paper.” Note to self – give it up, no way I can turn a phrase like that.


There are others on the scientific advisory board of various qualifications, but these three are leaders of the pseudoscience based anti-vaccine movement. If there ever was a definition of a “shill,” I’d be hard pressed to find three more likely candidates for that moniker.

Look, if you see this anti-vaccine article being tossed about by the usual suspects in the anti-vaccine movement, be aware that it actually doesn’t say what they think it says. From a scientifically unbiased point of view, all I see is how pure vaccines are, and the contaminants are so minor as to be biologically irrelevant. And some of the “contaminants” are just not that serious, even if they were in high enough levels to matter.

Oh well. At least you got some good quotes from Orac.



Edit:
Btw: Dr. Suzanne Humphries is nuts. Why anyone would ever take her seriously is beyond me. She's a dangerous quack.
Last edited by DrEvil on Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Agent Orange Cooper » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:01 pm

I have him on ignore, but anything DrEvil posts is bound to be propagandistic horseshit. So take that as my blanket response to whatever he posts.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby DrEvil » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:23 pm

Agent Orange Cooper » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:51 pm wrote:I wouldn't inject anything with the DTaP vaccine's ingredients list into my two month old, so no, not even whooping cough.

I don't have any problem with antibiotics. I think they may be underused actually. My girlfriend is currently on a heavy regimen in attempt to clear out an intestinal infection (SIBO) that was brought on by the use of probiotics. So I am actually somewhat skeptical of probiotics on the whole after this ordeal, which totally fucked up her gut biota.


Was going back through the thread to see what other insanity I'd missed and came across the above zinger. And this, when brekin asked if you'd vaccinate your kids:

Zero vaccines.


So not only do you want more people to die from infections, you also want to expose your children and anyone who comes into contact with them to potentially lethal diseases. Since you have me on ignore you probably won't see this, but I'll say it anyway:

You're a danger to your children and those around you.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Agent Orange Cooper » Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:01 am

The only thing dangerous here is your complete and total ignorance relative to the authority with which you speak. The wild-eyed fascism inherent in such a dimly active, thoroughly propagandized brain like yours is why America has such an abysmal infant mortality rate compared to the rest of 'developed' nations and why we are overall one of the sickest nations in the world and getting sicker all the time (due to the 69 vaccines our children are mandated to receive by age 18, not to mention the many other vaccines sold to adults, pregnant women and the elderly—the most vulnerable besides babies—on a daily basis). Your false, fanatic belief in the god of "safe and effective vaccines" leads directly to the deaths and poisoning of children from the day they are born onward. You will be ashamed of yourself, one day, if you ever make it through the thick haze of government and pharmaceutical propaganda you seem to inhale and exhale on a daily basis, and wake up to reality.

:wave:
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby liminalOyster » Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:35 pm

Unless there is breaking Vax news on the scale of "Atlantis has risen," vaccines are definitely not responsible for the US infant mortality rate.

The US deals with stats on pre-term births differently than many/most other countries who err on the side of calling them miscarriages much later than we would. Still higher but less so than you would think. That accounts for alot of the diff before birth.

After birth you can pretty much wholly map infant mortality to whatever metric of disadvantage you'd like, racial, poverty, geography, etc. IOW the big story on that one and on the country's overall sickness is easily and legitimately explained with no recourse to repackaged 19th c vaccine conspiracy theory. America just loves to hate and kill the poor. Hell, it doesn't need some bogeyman vaccination conspiracy to do it - opiates, tobacco, alcohol, structural inequality leading to premature death, police violence, etc - that shit works.

I do agree there are some substantive questions and debates to be had about individual rights/liberties and the political philosophy of the greater good, as it relates to mandatory vaccination (which I strongly oppose despite being very "pro-vaxx"). But the science is not there to make any hard case against "Vaccination" in total. And if someone does, I am not going to engage their arguments further - I spent enough time a decade ago on the issue.

Not dismissing vaccine injury which is legit and real and should be talked about. But even that is complicated - ie it can be cheaper to pay out than to defend in litigation, IIUC. But at the same time, it is the primary reason I don't think you can, in good conscience, force vaccination.

There are some interesting lines of inquiry woven into the work of someone like Humphries. Some sound like they justify further research, esp. around inflammation during critical developmental periods. But they will never be heard if they are used as the undergirding for a larger argument that is so strongly based in moralized paranoia.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby DrEvil » Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:56 pm

Agent Orange Cooper » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:01 am wrote:The only thing dangerous here is your complete and total ignorance relative to the authority with which you speak. The wild-eyed fascism inherent in such a dimly active, thoroughly propagandized brain like yours is why America has such an abysmal infant mortality rate compared to the rest of 'developed' nations and why we are overall one of the sickest nations in the world and getting sicker all the time (due to the 69 vaccines our children are mandated to receive by age 18, not to mention the many other vaccines sold to adults, pregnant women and the elderly—the most vulnerable besides babies—on a daily basis). Your false, fanatic belief in the god of "safe and effective vaccines" leads directly to the deaths and poisoning of children from the day they are born onward. You will be ashamed of yourself, one day, if you ever make it through the thick haze of government and pharmaceutical propaganda you seem to inhale and exhale on a daily basis, and wake up to reality.

:wave:


Says the guy who thinks using more antibiotics is a good idea (because dying from a small cut builds character!). :roll:

I'm not saying vaccines are completely safe. Never have and never will, because they aren't. I'm saying that the alternative is worse.

And yes, there is a discussion to be had about the number of vaccines given to young children in the US (the highest number in the developed world), but that's a long way from your fanatical resistance to any vaccines at all, which is based on ignorance and misinformation.

You accuse me of living in a thick haze of propaganda while at the same time gobbling up some of the most shoddy and outright false anti-vaccine hysteria and promoting the work of a fucking homeopath instead (hint: magic is not medicine).

If not vaccinating only affected yourself I wouldn't care that you didn't do it, but it doesn't. It makes it easier to spread disease (see the recent measles outbreak in the Somali community in Minnesota, which was caused by anti-vaxxers spreading their lies), and it affects other people.

The reason we don't have epidemics of various childhood diseases every fucking year anymore is because of vaccines. Again, see Minnesota. People stopped vaccinating and voila! Instant measles outbreak. The connection is pretty damn obvious.

Here's some numbers for measles:

Deaths in 1980: 2.6 million
Deaths in 1990: 545,000
Deaths in 2014: 73,000

One guess as to why that number is going down.
Measles give you a 0.2% chance of dying (higher if you're malnourished), which is way beyond any kind of risk associated with the vaccine, but I guess you're okay with that. What's a few dead kids in the name of sticking it to the man, right?

And just for fun, smallpox:

Deaths in the 20th century: 300-500 million
Today: 0

Again, guess why.
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:43 pm

Agent Orange Cooper » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:01 pm wrote:The only thing dangerous here is your complete and total ignorance relative to the authority with which you speak. The wild-eyed fascism inherent in such a dimly active, thoroughly propagandized brain like yours ...


I'm going to stop you right there, Agent Orange Cooper. This is your official warning, your one-time, get-out-of-jail-free card. If you call an RI member a fascist, or any other personal attack, you will be suspended. Please follow the rules in the future.
"Huey Long once said, “Fascism will come to America in the name of anti-fascism.” I'm afraid, based on my own experience, that fascism will come to America in the name of national security."
-Jim Garrison 1967
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Agent Orange Cooper » Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:44 pm

liminalOyster » Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:35 pm wrote: America just loves to hate and kill the poor.


Well, I agree completely with you on that. Good luck with your neurotoxic injections.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Blue » Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:16 pm

DrEvil, please don't call me or anyone else an anti-vaxxer who calls into question the huge exponential growth in vaccinations (for profit not health) that are mandatory for kids in the US. Almost all of the recent outbreaks of measles in the US occurred within an almost 100% vaccinated population.

How do you explain that? Either the vaccine does not work or the people vaccinated contracted it from the shot.

Blaming unvaccinated people who DID NOT HAVE THE MEASLES is one of those "Big Lies" I would say.

When you bring up the Somali/Minnesota thing you are really feeding into, I hate to say this I like you, Corporate American Lies. How sick is it to say that the children of some singled out parents in the US got the measles because they were African immigrants dumb, worried about autism and didn't know vaccinations are good?

The kids got the fucking measles, not AIDS!!!

I'm going to link to Dr. Mercola now, who is a real doctor and always has footnotes/links to scientific studies in his articles. I admit it is a couple years old because I don't have much time right now to find a newer link. Excellent information on the history of measles in the US.

Summary of article:

CDC reports that no one in the US has died of measles in the last 12 years. Meanwhile, 98 measles vaccine related deaths were reported to the US government since 2003.
During that time period, 694 measles vaccine-related disabilities were reported to the Vaccine Adverse Reporting System (VAERS).
Child mortality due to measles is 200 to 400 times greater in malnourished children in less developed countries than those in developed ones; as nutrition improves, complications and deaths radically diminish.

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/arti ... ccine.aspx


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