Vaccine - Autism link

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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Agent Orange Cooper » Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:59 pm

Sounder » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:19 pm wrote:Hey, where are the forces of vaccine orthodoxy needed to help explain what is really happening here? Busy waxing indignant with easier targets for now I guess.


I guess they were busy, off fortifying their "arguments." That is, pictures of T-shirts. And whatever DrEvil said in his absolutely pitiful response.

They quite literally have Nothing.

Meanwhile.



Vaccines Cause Aluminum Deposits in the Brain

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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:05 pm

I have 4 children who attended public school so they were vaccinated ..their children/spouses were all vaccinated and they are just fine ...that's what I have


Officials in anti-vaccination ‘hotspot’ near Portland declare an emergency over measles outbreak

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... 81f614f2a7
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby DrEvil » Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:19 pm

@AOC: I have plenty. Not my fault that you ignore every single thing that contradicts your beliefs.

Still waiting on an answer for why we should use more antibiotics btw.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Karmamatterz » Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:05 pm

For the same reasons that Monsanto only served organic in their cafeteria, rich, mostly white people eat organic and do not vaccinate their children.


Hmmm....rich white people? Bill Gates as an example? For crying out loud let's use an example of one of most wealthy individuals on the planet as an example. Need a better eyeroll emoji.

So who is old enough to remember any family members who had Polio? Tuberculosis?

My fav uncle had polio as a kid and it impacted him the rest of his life.
My mom had TB as a teenager and lived the rest of her life with one functioning lung. Oh, she also got to spend months in a sanitarium in isolation. No, that didn't fuck up her life at all. They both wished they had gotten vaccines and made damn sure all their children had them.

Appreciating skepticism about vaccines is perfectly fine. If you don't want to have your kids get the shots don't, but expect to have to deal with the consequences.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby liminalOyster » Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:12 pm

Agent Orange Cooper » Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:59 pm wrote:
Sounder » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:19 pm wrote:Hey, where are the forces of vaccine orthodoxy needed to help explain what is really happening here? Busy waxing indignant with easier targets for now I guess.


I guess they were busy, off fortifying their "arguments." That is, pictures of T-shirts. And whatever DrEvil said in his absolutely pitiful response.


So you are backslapping Sounder immediately after he got called out for re-posting some bullshit hoax story about Billl Gates. How does this compute? And how does it compute that those who've called him out are the ones who lack "arguments?"

They quite literally have Nothing.


What are you even talking about? "Nothing" in response to what? What exactly do you think you've put out there that demands a response?

Meanwhile.



Vaccines Cause Aluminum Deposits in the Brain



How exactly does two YT videos of an 8 yo fringe conference session equate to "meanwhile?"
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby DrEvil » Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:18 pm

Karmamatterz » Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:05 am wrote:
For the same reasons that Monsanto only served organic in their cafeteria, rich, mostly white people eat organic and do not vaccinate their children.


Hmmm....rich white people? Bill Gates as an example? For crying out loud let's use an example of one of most wealthy individuals on the planet as an example. Need a better eyeroll emoji.

So who is old enough to remember any family members who had Polio? Tuberculosis?

My fav uncle had polio as a kid and it impacted him the rest of his life.
My mom had TB as a teenager and lived the rest of her life with one functioning lung. Oh, she also got to spend months in a sanitarium in isolation. No, that didn't fuck up her life at all. They both wished they had gotten vaccines and made damn sure all their children had them.

Appreciating skepticism about vaccines is perfectly fine. If you don't want to have your kids get the shots don't, but expect to have to deal with the consequences.


The bolded part so much. I'm just old enough to remember the measles and mumps being a common thing every year at my school, and how freaked out my grandmother was every time because she could remember how bad it used to be. Why anyone in their right mind would want to bring that back is beyond me.

@AOC: still waiting on the antibiotics....
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby DrEvil » Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:25 pm

@liminaloyster:

You need to know their secret vocabulary. In this context "They quite literally have Nothing" means "Every expert on the Subject says I'm Wrong, ergo I'm right."
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Sounder » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:33 am

The story I posted cannot be substantiated so as LO indicated is a hoax story. So I have been again mislead by my bias. Yet the bias exists so it deserves an explanation.

The question is not about whether vaccines work or not, rather it is about risk reward ratios. This includes 'externalities' often not taken into account. When a 'good' thing is introduced, the demand often provides a shield from accountability.

So for instance, I come from Kalamazoo Michigan, where Upjohn was the major employer in town, Portage really, and all the high school kids went on tours of the plant. The factory reeked with toxic air. So, what did Upjohn do with all their thousands of barrels of industrial production waste products? Lets just say that the land of lakes was very good to them and they returned no favors.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:16 am

Minnesota's Autism Board Installs Anti-Vaxxers

“In selecting members of the Autism Council, we desired to get a broad range of participants.”

01.24.19 5:58 PM ET
Two members of the Minnesota Autism Council are vaccine skeptics, in a state that already has a history of struggling with misinformation about vaccinations and has recently fought one of the worst measles outbreaks in recent memory.

The Autism Council was formed last fall by state Sen. Jim Abeler (R) to advise the state’s legislature on public policy related to autism.

Abeler, who believes doctors should tell parents the “pluses and minuses of vaccines,” appointed anti-vaxxer Wayne Rohde, co-founder of the Vaccine Safety Council of Minnesota, a group that is skeptical of vaccines, and Patti Carroll, who was involved with organizing anti-vaccine outreach in the Minnesota Somali community.

Rohde refutes the label of “anti-vaxxer.” “Those who question vaccine safety are quickly marginalized as saying ‘We’re anti-vax,’” Rohde told the Star Tribune.

“In selecting members of the Autism Council, we desired to get a broad range of participants,” Abeler told the Daily Beast via email. “Including all voices and points of view will improve our chances of developing policy recommendations and action steps that will stand the test of time and actually work.”

Others on the council, however, disagreed. "Even if it's not something that's discussed or that a policy is going to come out of, giving them [anti-vaxxers] this large contingency on this council is dangerous. It's giving credence to a theory that's false," council member Noah McCourt, an autism self-advocate who also serves on the Minnesota Governor's Council on Developmental Disabilities, told the Star Tribune.

According to many scientific studies published in reputable academic journals, as well as the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), the United Nations’ World Health Organization (WHO), and the American Academy of Pediatrics, vaccines do not cause autism. Though scientists and doctors have again and again debunked the link between them, anti-vaxxer beliefs continue to exist and spread in local communities, among politicians and on the internet. The World Health Organization has named ‘vaccine hesitancy’ as one of the top ten threats to global health in 2019.

“There is no plan or intention of taking any positions about vaccines.”

— Minnesota state Sen. Jim Abeler (R)

According to the Minnesota Department of Health, in 2017, Minnesota saw its worst measles outbreak in 30 years, reporting 75 cases. About 80 percent of those infected were part of the Somali immigrant community, according to state public health officials. Immigrant communities can be particularly vulnerable to disease if not vaccinated, according to the CDC, because new community members who arrive from other places where the vaccine isn’t prominently used can be carriers.

“Unfortunately, the Minnesota Somali community has been targeted with misinformation about vaccine risks,” Minnesota Health Commissioner Ed Ehlinger in a statement during the 2017 outbreak. “We’re partnering with Somali community leaders and health care providers to counteract that misinformation.”

On Wednesday, the MN Autism Council held its third meeting.

Abeler told the Daily Beast that the goal of the council is “to address the present and future needs for education, employment, housing, transportation and independent living in the autism community.” He added, “There is no plan or intention of taking any positions about vaccines.”

Rohde told the Star Tribune that while he does support parents’ rights not to vaccinate, “we’re not about causation within the council. The council is all about how to deal and help those who are afflicted, and their families and those who provide services.” Rohde has a son on the autism spectrum.

Nationwide, rates of measles are spiking in secluded areas, isolated communities, and even more urban areas, like greater Portland, where 23 people, including children, are ill from the disease and a public health emergency has been declared. The CDC reported that in 2018, 349 people nationwide had contracted measles, the second-most cases recorded since the vaccine eliminated measles in the United States in 2000.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/minnesota ... itter_page
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby DrEvil » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:24 pm

Sounder » Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:33 pm wrote:...

The question is not about whether vaccines work or not, rather it is about risk reward ratios.

...


Oh for the love of... This is exactly what everyone has been saying all along, and the evidence is clear as day: the benefits of vaccines far outweigh the downsides. And that's not something that someone pulled out of their ass: there's literally thousands of studies from all over the world going back decades backing it up. There's actual, physical evidence all over the place, in the form of people walking around not being dead or crippled.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby liminalOyster » Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:49 pm

Sounder » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:33 am wrote:The story I posted cannot be substantiated so as LO indicated is a hoax story. So I have been again mislead by my bias. Yet the bias exists so it deserves an explanation.

The question is not about whether vaccines work or not, rather it is about risk reward ratios. This includes 'externalities' often not taken into account. When a 'good' thing is introduced, the demand often provides a shield from accountability.

So for instance, I come from Kalamazoo Michigan, where Upjohn was the major employer in town, Portage really, and all the high school kids went on tours of the plant. The factory reeked with toxic air. So, what did Upjohn do with all their thousands of barrels of industrial production waste products? Lets just say that the land of lakes was very good to them and they returned no favors.


Sorry if I sounded harsh on you Sounder; nothing personal.

I likely share very many biases with you relating to any/all signs of ecology being destroyed/corrupted by capitalism.

But I am also a dad and in the process of reading very very very widely about each and every vaccine I gave my children, and in a rigorous dialogue with my own skepticism, did not find much confirmation of my own existing biases. I'm adamantly opposed to mandatory vaccination for philosophical reasons. And I am extremely wary of the manner in which "vaccines" are increasingly becoming a universally recognized non-ambiguous kind of "good" without appropriate nuance or skepticism about each individual vaccine, etc.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Sounder » Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:56 am

Thank-you LO for your well expressed response.

These are personal decisions to be made, I do not even talk about it with my daughters (who have kids). In general though, I trust them and accept that they are in a better position to make the decision than I am. They were raised to think for themselves, so it is hardly appropriate for me to press my opinion when they already know it. Probably know it, but not sure because honestly, the subject is never brought up. They may well think that I am blanket anti-vaccine, where the actual case is that I think that we must be very careful in their overuse and resist normalizing the idea that we can control nature with a chemical fix that does not introduce larger negative effects.

The Japanese have the most restrictive attitude toward vaccines and they have the lowest infant mortality and longest lived population in the world. WHO administered many doses of I forget what in Africa. The label, the fucking label, reads, not to be administered to immunocomprimised individuals. Most of those folk are immunocomprimised, as are the rest of us, more and more given the toxins routinely produced by industry and the nutrient free food we tend to eat.

I find it curious the lack of skepticism towards the pharmaceutical industry given the large overlap with the pesticide industry. It's weird that we get our medicines from folk who's mentality is; how can we kill this pest. Weird, and as long as I am so far off the plantation anyway; Why do people take medical advice from drug pushers?
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:57 am

Washington Declares State of Emergency Due to Measles Outbreak

Posted 8:38 PM, January 26, 2019, by CNN Wire
Measles on the rise after 19-year absence

CNN

Experts fear that measles, declared eliminated from the US in 2000, is here to stay and getting worse, and they point a finger at parents who do not vaccinate their children. CNN's Elizabeth Cohen reports.

Published at: 9:54 AM, Mon Jan 21 2019

As of Saturday, there are 32 confirmed cases of measles in Washington — an outbreak that has already prompted Gov. Jay Inslee to declare a state of emergency.

“Measles is a highly contagious infectious disease that can be fatal in small children,” Inslee said in his proclamation Friday, adding that these cases create “an extreme public health risk that may quickly spread to other counties.”


A doctor’s assistant brings a tray with a vaccine against measles, rubella, mumps and chicken pox prior to the vaccination of an infant on February 26, 2015 in Berlin, Germany. (Credit: Sean Gallup/Getty Images)

As of Saturday, there were 31 cases of the measles in Clark County, which sits on the state’s southern border, just across the Columbia River from Portland, Oregon. Of the 31 cases, 21 are children between the ages of 1 and 10 years old.

There is also one case in King County, which includes Seattle. While the King County website says the man in his 50s is a “suspected case,” the governor said in a news release it is a confirmed case of measles.

In a health alert from King County, it was said the man had recently traveled to Clark County.

Inslee’s proclamation allows agencies and departments to use state resources and “do everything reasonably possible to assist affected areas.”

A news release on the governor’s website says the Washington State Department of Health (DOH) has implemented an infectious disease Incident Management Structure so it can manage the public health aspects of the outbreak through investigations and lab testing.

The Washington Military Department, the release says, is organizing resources to assist the DOH and local officials in easing the effects on people, property and infrastructure.

Last week, a person infected with measles attended a Portland Trail Blazers home game in Oregon amid the outbreak. Contagious people also went to Portland International Airport, as well as to hospitals, schools, stores, churches and restaurants across Washington’s Clark County and the two-state region, county officials said.

Most patients with symptoms should call first

Measles is a contagious virus that spreads through the air through coughing and sneezing. Symptoms such as high fever, rash all over the body, stuffy nose and red eyes typically disappear without treatment within two or three weeks. One or two of every 1,000 children who get measles will die from complications, according to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

In 1978, the CDC set a goal to eliminate measles from the United States by 1982. Measles was declared eliminated — defined by absence of continuous disease transmission for greater than 12 months — from the United States in 2000.

But there has been a recent rise in unvaccinated children. The proportion of children receiving no vaccine doses by 2 years old rose from 0.9% among those born in 2011 to 1.3% among those born in 2015, the CDC reported in October.

The CDC recommends people get the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine to protect against those viruses. The typical recommendations are that children should get two doses of MMR vaccine, the first between 12 to 15 months of age and the second between 4 and 6 years old.
https://ktla.com/2019/01/26/washington- ... -outbreak/
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Agent Orange Cooper » Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:46 pm

https://www.ageofautism.com/2019/01/no- ... e-web.html

No US Childhood Vaccines Were Placebo Tested: Why the Pharma/Government Complex Is Getting Desperate To Shut Down The Web

By John Stone

A special tribute to Del Bigtree (pictured) and his team at ICAN for his stunning 88 page letter to the HHS regarding vaccine safety. As Del reported - in the latest edition of Highwire - the letter, in response to an earlier reply from the then acting Director National Vaccine Program Office, Melinda Wharton, took virtually a year to compile, and is a meticulous piece of research. Most sensationally they researched the HHS claim through US government archives that at least some pediatric vaccines had been trialed against genuine placebo, and came to a negative conclusion. Not only that, they established that none of the vaccines those vaccines had been trialed against had ever been trialed against genuine placebo either. At the end of the line the toxic products were only being compared with other toxic products, rather than against saline.

Leave aside the sceptics, for any believer in the vaccine program as a necessary intervention in public health, this should be a devastating finding. Fundamentally, the research into the safety of any of the products before marketing was simply not there. The manufacturers apparently had no faith that their proto-products could withstand this scrutiny, and for the rest they just did not care: under the alleged imperative of protecting the population it seems anything went. So even before all the sham monitoring procedures and reviews which Del and his team dismantle in forensic detail we are left with the proposition that none of the present products being given to US children – and frequently other children across most of the developed world – have any meaningful pre-marketing safety data all. If you are believer in the program you have been let down: if you wanted a program with any pretensions to safety - supposing such a thing to be possible - it looks like you would have to start from scratch. The manufacturers did this: the governments, the politicians and the regulators (internationally) let it happen.

This damning document is published simultaneously with a demand in the UK from the Royal Society for Public Health (which I had never heard of) to shut down comment about vaccines on web. It echoes calls from Seth Berkley of GAVI, Heidi Larson of the Vaccine Confidence Project and the European Parliament. The pamphlet airily dismisses concerns that vaccines have side effects or that you could possibly have too many. It is pure public relations, and if the society claims to be "independent" it also admits that the publication was paid for Merck, a detail which was reported by British Medical Journal and the Guardian, but not true to form by the BBC. We have, in truth, been building to this moment for two decades: as the evidence piles up that every single aspect of the program lacks integrity or is simply rotten to the core all the perpetrators can do is call for the silencing of their critics, and maintain the products are safe because they say so.

Watch Del introduce the letter on Highwire January 24, 2019:



Please help give the ICAN letter the widest possible distribution, particularly to politicians.

The full correspondence can be found here.

John Stone is UK Editor for Age of Autism.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby JackRiddler » Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:45 pm

.

I'm sure everyone will appreciate this.

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The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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