Vaccine - Autism link

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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby liminalOyster » Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:24 pm

Placebo use in vaccine trials: Recommendations of a WHO expert panel

There are no vaccine studies with saline placebo?
AUGUST 6, 2018 / VACCINESWORKBLOG ... e-placebo/
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby DrEvil » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:20 pm

"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Sounder » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:32 am

It is sad that the abuse of a 'good' thing has to go over the top before people stop and really look at implications.

HPV is a case in point. Ahh, the issues and actors are better explained in the link. At any rate, the victims are suing for fraud because the 'program' does not allow cases for harm. Heavy hitters and Merck may be exposed as the fraud that they are. ... -to-court/

snippit from long article.

The mayhem caused by Gardasil

Even these flimflams could not conceal the mayhem caused by Gardasil. Kennedy showed the court data from Merck’s own package insert showing that 2.3 % of the girls receiving the vaccine complained of symptoms of autoimmune disease within 7 months. Since cervical cancer kills only 1.5 Americans in every 100,000, he noted, “Merck’s own data show that the chances of getting an autoimmune disease from this vaccine are 1000 times the risk of dying from cervical cancer.

Back when C2W? was here I asked what she thought about the HPV vaccine. I never did get a response.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Sounder » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:49 am ... 38912.html

The majority of those infected are children, many of whom have not been immunized against the disease, officials said.

OK fine, many of whom have not been immunized. So in fact most were immunized or the word most would have been used in the presser. But , but, herd immunity....Well, does the immunization 'work' or does it not 'work'?
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Agent Orange Cooper » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:01 pm

Sounder » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:49 am wrote:

The majority of those infected are children, many of whom have not been immunized against the disease, officials said.

OK fine, many of whom have not been immunized. So in fact most were immunized or the word most would have been used in the presser. But , but, herd immunity....Well, does the immunization 'work' or does it not 'work'?

Of course it doesn't work. And there is no measles 'epidemic'. There's exactly 1 confirmed case in the entire state of Oregon after it was declared that Portland was a 'tinderbox' waiting to blow up after an infected person allegedly attended a Blazers game.

They are simply ramping up the propaganda as they simultaneously attempt to take away religious and philosophical exemptions and force these ineffective toxic cocktails into everyone they can before enough people realize what's being done to them. They may even use this latest fake outbreak to announce that a new super-vaccine must be produced. You may find yourself unable to board a plane unless you're proven to be up to date on your toxic injections. That's a worst-case-scenario, but it's not at all far fetched.

There is, however, an autism epidemic. An autoimmune disorder epidemic. An anaphylactic food allergy epidemic. A SIDS epidemic. Etc etc.

Re: Measles: two US outbreaks are blamed on low vaccination rates. Another perspective

Please allow me to make a few corrections and add context to Ms. Tanne's article. Endemic measles has been eradicated from the US and the whole of the western hemisphere, per the WHO.(1) It does not continually recirculate. But cases are brought into the US, or rarely occur as a clinical response to measles vaccination, (2) multiple times each year. (3) The US averages about 250 reported cases annually.

There have been only 3 deaths from measles in the US since 2000: one in a 75 year old male who was exposed in Israel; one in a 13 year old immunosuppressed male who had received a bone marrow transplant 3 months premortem, who lacked any identified exposure to a measles case; and one in an immunosuppressed woman with multiple comorbidities. Whether any of these deaths was caused by a vaccine strain is unknown, but since vaccine strain measles can be virulent in an immunocompromised host, it is possible. (2)

There are approximately 2500 mumps cases yearly in the US, but no recent mumps-related deaths.(4) There are approximately 10 rubella cases yearly in the US, but since 2012, all rubella cases were infected outside the US. (5)

Thus, there is no evidence that in recent years unvaccinated US children have caused a single death from measles, mumps and rubella. Yet how many column inches, how many hours of TV news have been devoted to scaring the American public about the dire threat of measles? Fear of measles has been the major driver of the campaigns to eliminate vaccine exemptions. Parents of immunocompromised children have been incited to frenzy about the risks posed to their children by unvaccinated classmates. Yet, when you look closely, the risk is marginal to none.

Even when all eligible children are vaccinated, there will remain those who cannot be vaccinated with live vaccines, and those who fail to achieve immunity from their immunizations. Even after 2 doses, the mumps vaccine is only 86% efficacious. (6) Measles vaccine is 85-95% efficacious after one dose, (7) and 90-98% after two.(8) In US and Canadian measles outbreaks, up to 50% of those developing measles have received two doses of MMR. (8) Thus, there will continue to be disease outbreaks, with or without ending the practice of vaccine exemptions.

During the past 30 years, approximately 89,000 adverse reactions, including about 450 deaths, have been reported to the US Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System for measles vaccines.

Ms Tanne seems to be singing with a Pharma-led chorus this week, orchestrated with the WHO, BMJ, NY Times and other media outlets. Simultaneously, similar bills have been introduced this month in US state legislatures to end all vaccine exemptions.

But consider: if vaccine exemptions are withheld from children whose families perceive them to be at high risk of an adverse reaction from the MMR, we are likely to experience an inversion in public health: fewer overall viral infections, but more vaccine reactions (and child deaths) then we have now. Public health won't prevail, but Pharma profits will.

1. ... inated-a...
6. ... effectiv...
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby liminalOyster » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:31 pm

Agent Orange Cooper » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:01 pm wrote:Of course it doesn't work.


And there is no measles 'epidemic'. There's exactly 1 confirmed case in the entire state of Oregon after it was declared that Portland was a 'tinderbox' waiting to blow up after an infected person allegedly attended a Blazers game.

As of yesterday, there are 40 cases in the PNW. Almost all are in the state of WA. What difference does the state line make here?

They are simply ramping up the propaganda as they simultaneously attempt to take away religious and philosophical exemptions and force these ineffective toxic cocktails into everyone they can before enough people realize what's being done to them.

Whatta buncha jerks!? Except ... wait, who is "they"?
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Elvis » Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:51 pm

I think it's good for these questions to be hashed out, and part of that is properly addressing the questions posed by our correspondents in the thread. Especially so with a data-heavy topic like this.

I'm a little bit agonistic on this subject, so I for one appreciate the back & forth. My own feeling is that if we can make a vaccine to prevent a disease (without causing another disease), then we should do it. But once again the first problem seems to be capitalism and the primacy of the profit motive. It's very difficult to trust these big pharm companies, not to mention some of the 'public' institutions like the FDA and CDC.

So please carry on, but for everyone's edification be sure to address the specific questions that come up.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Agent Orange Cooper » Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:59 pm

Frankly, I don't quite see the point. I've lately tended to back away from back and forths here about it, and instead just post the information that seems sound to me for the people who are reading and might be on the fence, and to let them make up their own mind. I used to think that LO was open-minded enough to listen and accept information that might run contrary to his beliefs on the matter, but it's become increasingly clear that nothing I say to LO has any effect. Not to say my intention is to change his mind, but in the end nothing I do post seems to get read... I highly doubt he read the entire 88-page letter from Bigtree, for instance, before he posted those two links in response to it. But at least he still supports choice in the matter (I think)—I hope that if the push really starts coming for mandatory vaccinations (and it is), he will be one to speak up against THAT, even if he believes wholeheartedly in the supposed "safety and efficacy" of vaccines.

But anyway, I'll respond here now.

The many outbreaks among highly vaccinated populations are evidence enough that the vaccine does not work particularly well, if it can be said to work at all. Whatever benefits the MMR and other vaccines may confer (temporary immunity to a certain strain of whatever disease), they are FAR outweighed by the many, many well-documented side-effects which in many—if not most—cases are worse than what the vaccine was intended to prevent (like measles, a mild childhood illness that, when contracted, confers immunity for life). It's an extremely well-known fact that the recently vaccinated are primary vectors for disease, for example—THAT is where these outbreaks of measles are most likely coming from, not from unvaccinated kids.

I recommend re-reading this article and all the studies cited therein:

Both unvaccinated and vaccinated individuals are at risk from exposure to those recently vaccinated. Vaccine failure is widespread; vaccine-induced immunity is not permanent and recent outbreaks of diseases such as whooping cough, mumps and measles have occurred in fully vaccinated populations.16,17 Flu vaccine recipients become more susceptible to future infection after repeated vaccination.18,19

Adults have contracted polio from recently vaccinated infants. A father from Staten Island ended up in a wheel chair after contracting polio while changing his daughter's diaper. He received a 22.5 million dollar award in 2009. 20,21

"Vaccine failure and failure to acknowledge that live virus vaccines can spread disease have resulted in an increase in outbreaks of infectious disease in both vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals," says Leslie Manookian, producer of The Greater Good. "CDC should instruct physicians who administer vaccinations to inform their patients about the risks posed to others by those who've been recently vaccinated."

As of yesterday, there are 40 cases in the PNW. Almost all are in the state of WA. What difference does the state line make here?

It's simply an indication of the dishonest reporting surrounding these supposed 'epidemics.' But you're right, state line doesn't particularly matter, and 40 cases of measles is still not an epidemic. 1 in 36 kids with autism: an epidemic.

Whatta buncha jerks!? Except ... wait, who is "they"?

Do I really need to answer this question, here of all places?
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby liminalOyster » Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:23 pm

Whatta buncha jerks!? Except ... wait, who is "they"?

Do I really need to answer this question, here of all places?

Yes, most definitely.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Agent Orange Cooper » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:51 pm

OK then... by They, I am referring to the medical cartel, aka Big Pharma, aka the pharmaceutical-industrial complex, all an extension of The Corporatocracy, backed by the State, both the Federal and International layers.

Good basic interview here "debunking measles mania."

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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby DrEvil » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:08 pm

AOC wrote:

like measles, a mild childhood illness...

This is a lie. 2.6 million people died from the measles in 1980. 110000 in 2017, and probably about the same number last year. To put that into perspective for you: that's 300 people dead every day (or using a more US friendly metric: one 9/11 every ten days), twelve people every single hour of every single day, all year long. You can't seriously think that vaccines are worse than that?

The many outbreaks among highly vaccinated populations are evidence enough that the vaccine does not work particularly well

Then why do the outbreaks always happen in areas with low vaccination rates?

Also, another thing I'm curious about: why didn't autism rates change when they stopped adding thimerosal to the MMR vaccine?

And you still haven't explained why you think it's a good idea to use more antibiotics.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Agent Orange Cooper » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:52 pm ... red-scare/

Measles: The New Red Scare
By Roman Bystrianyk | Jul 31, 2015

The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing when it is no longer doubtful, is the cause of half their errors.
– John Stuart Mill, 1859

Majorities are never a proof of the truth.
– Dr. Walter R. Hadwen, 1896

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
– Franklin D. Roosevelt, 1933

Fear. It’s a natural and primal human emotion. While human instinct is exceptional in evaluating and reacting to a natural personal risk, as in facing a predator, humans are terrible at assessing modern risks. According to Psychology Today[1] this is because our ancestors were programmed to quickly react and respond to a situation before it is even consciously perceived. Our reactions aren’t based in logic and statistics, but in lightning fast primitive responses. Threats such as venomous spiders and snakes[2] cause an out-of-proportion fear compared with the more likely threat of being killed in a car crash.[3] The low risk of a being killed in a shark attack[4] evokes more terror than the much greater chance of dying from a prescription drug.[5] (Spider and snake bites kill approximately 13 people a year and shark attacks kill 1 person every 2 years in the United States; there were 32,719 deaths in motor vehicle crashes in 2013 and 38,329 people died from a drug overdose in 2010 in the United States.)

Infectious diseases fall into this emotional fear-based primal mental algorithm. This reaction is completely understandable with mankind’s horrifying historical experience with deadly microbes. The black plague decimated 30-60% of Europe’s total population in the mid-1300s,[6] a number of cholera pandemics during the 1800s killed millions,[7] typhus killed 3 million in Russia during the early 1900s,[8] and the list goes on. Historically, infectious diseases killed massive numbers of people. Typhus, typhoid, cholera, dysentery, smallpox, scarlet fever, whooping cough, diphtheria, tuberculosis, measles, and others were responsible for multimillions of deaths in the Western world over many centuries.

So with the recent spate of measles cases in the United States, the enormous amount of fear and anger comes as no surprise. People who have chosen not to vaccinate for a variety of reasons, have been viciously disparaged,[9] there have been calls to jail people that don’t vaccinate,[10] many pediatricians are banning parents who don’t vaccinate their kids,[11] and laws are quickly being considered to strip people of all rights to refuse any vaccine.[12] There has been nothing short of a panic over the relatively small number of cases. It has also incited a raging fear that has been fanned by numerous incendiary media reports. Even comedian Jimmy Kimmel has jumped in, ridiculing anyone that questions vaccines.[13]

But let’s take a deep breath and a moment to step back from the hysteria and look at some information that is never part of the discussion involving infectious diseases.

Declining Measles Mortality

It’s true that during the 1800s, and even into the early 1900s, measles was a big killer. In fact, all infectious diseases were the leading cause of death—whooping cough, scarlet fever, tuberculosis, and others already mentioned, killed millions. How deadly these diseases were is often emphasized. The implication is that without vaccines, we would return to those dark and deadly times. Massive deadly plagues would all return, and the advances we made because of vaccines would all be wiped out.

However, looking at mortality records, there is something that is never mentioned. The death rate for all infectious diseases had plummeted before the introduction of vaccines for all those diseases. For example, in the United States the mortality rate for measles decreased by more than 98% before the introduction of the measles vaccine in 1963 (Figure 1). In England, we see the same thing—a dramatic decrease in deaths before the introduction of the measles vaccine in 1968 (Figure 2). The same can be said for other infectious diseases such as whooping cough—massive declines in death before the introduction of any vaccine. Scarlet fever, which was during the 1800s a bigger killer than whooping cough or measles, went to near zero without the use of a vaccine.

US Measles Mortality and Trend, 1917-1992
Figure 1

UK Measles Mortality and Trend, 1917-1977
Figure 2

Before the advent of a measles vaccine, measles was generally considered a mild illness. Even the British Medical Journal remarked in 1959 at this particular medical practice that over a 10 year span there were few complications from measles and that all children recovered.

"In the majority of children the whole episode has been well and truly over in a week . . . In this practice measles is considered as a relatively mild and inevitable childhood ailment that is best encountered any time from 3 to 7 years of age. Over the past 10 years there have been few serious complications at any age, and all children have made complete recoveries. As a result of this reasoning no special attempts have been made at prevention even in young infants in whom the disease has not been found to be especially serious."[14]

Things were dramatically better before 1963 and the introduction of the first measles vaccine. In fact, if we look at all the causes of death from the United States Vital Statistics in 1962, we see that measles accounted for 0.02% of deaths that year (Figure 3). In 1962, measles was sixth from the bottom for causes of death. You can look through the list of causes of death and find almost everything from “Birth Injuries” at 28,199 to “Ulcers” at 12,228 to “Asthma” at 4,896 were far higher than the 408 deaths attributed to “Measles” that year.

US Causes of Death, 1962
Figure 3

Even if there was never a measles vaccine invented in the first place, would we be experiencing deaths on a massive scale as they were in the 1800s or early 1900s? Not likely. In fact, if we look at the exponential trend line based on 50 years of data, the death rate would have more than likely continued to drop (Figure 4). We can see the same thing in England—the trend shows a decreasing death rate that would have continued after the introduction of the vaccine anyway (Figure 5). It’s not, as you may have believed, that there was death and chaos before the introduction of the measles vaccine and suddenly as if a magic wand was waved we all lived happily ever after. In reality, most of the advances came over many decades of improvement in hygiene, sanitation, electricity, transportation of food, refrigeration, labor laws, and nutrition. The innovation and hard won struggle for all these and other societal improvements were what were instrumental in the mortality decline in all infectious diseases. You owe much more to your plumber, electrician, and grocer for the massive improvements in infectious diseases than any doctor or pharmacist.

Measles Mortality and Trend, 1917-1992 (magnified)
Figure 4

UK Measles Mortality and Trend, 1917-1977 (magnified)
Figure 5

Another way to look at the improvements is to see how the case-fatality rate if you caught measles changed over the years (Figure 6). In 1913, if you caught measles you had as high as a 1 in 29 chance of dying. This case-fatality rate improved over the century so that by 1955 you odds had improved to 1 in 1,625. Although the CDC states that the odds of death from measles is 1 in 500 to 1 in 1,000, the odds to just before the vaccine introduction vary from the low of 1 in 1,625 in 1955 to a high of 1 in 980 in 1961, with an actual average of about 1 in 1,215 in the 10 year years before the vaccine was introduced in 1963.

US Odds of Death when Getting Measles, 1912-1962
Figure 6

That doesn’t mean there weren’t deaths because of measles in 1962. There were, but they were very rare. For instance, in the six New England States (Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and Connecticut) there were just 16 deaths attributed to measles. Some states had zero that year. It just wasn’t as huge of a problem as you might think today with all the rage and panic.

Back in 1962, we didn’t have the detailed statistics on causes of death that we have today. The National Safety Council now accumulates causes of death from being struck by lightning to falling out of a building to drowning. If we compare the 1962 odds of dying from measles (1 in 457,000), it falls between drowning in a swimming pool (1 in 486,000) and a fall involving a bed, chair, or other furniture (1 in 424,000); we can gain a little perspective on the risk if we had no measles vaccine program at all (Figure 7).

US Odds of Death
Figure 7

As with other Western countries, the mortality rate from measles had greatly declined in France before the vaccine became available in 1966 (Figure 8). Yet, after its introduction vaccination rates remained low. In 1983 the vaccination rate was less than 20%.[15] In that year there were 20 deaths attributed to measles out of a population of over 54 million, which is a rate of 0.037 per 100,000 or approximately 1 in 2.7 million.

France Measles Mortality, 1906-1999
Figure 8

By 1989 the vaccination rate was still less than 40%.[16] In that year, there were 3 deaths attributed to measles, which is a rate of .005 per 100,000 or 1 in 19.37 million (Figure 9). Again, to put this in perspective by comparing it to National Safety Council statistics, you were more than 3 times as likely to be killed by being hit by lightning (1 in 5,506,120) than dying from measles in France in 1989 (1 in 19,370,000) when the vaccination rate was well below what would be considered as sufficient for “herd immunity.”

France Measles Mortality, 1906-1999 (magnified)
Figure 9

Vaccination vs. Natural Infection

Also, the less than perfect history of the measles vaccine is never mentioned. The first measles vaccine, which was a killed measles virus (KMV) vaccine introduced in 1963, caused serious problems[17] and even deaths.[18] After millions of children were injected with it, the vaccine was quickly but quietly scrapped and a live vaccine was introduced in 1967 with proclamations made that a single shot would give lifelong immunity.[19] A grandiose and unproven proclamation was made that measles would be eliminated from the United States by 1967.[20] Today, all children have to receive 2 doses of the vaccine. Additional shots are recommended to adults by the CDC.[21]

Contracting natural measles generally gave you solid lifelong immunity.[22] The vaccine doesn’t and will require revaccination throughout life. Because of this artificially generated situation, we could see large scale epidemics due to less than perfect immunity from the vaccine:

Because measles-specific antibody titer after vaccination is lower than after natural infection, there is concern that vaccinated persons may gradually lose protection from measles. Secondary vaccine failure (loss of immunity over time), in contrast to primary vaccine failure (no protection immediately after vaccination), is a concern because of the potential insidious challenge to measles elimination. For instance, if vaccine-induced immunity wane to non-protective levels in a high proportion of vaccinated adults, the level of population protection might decline to allow recurrence of endemic disease. By means of statistical modeling, Mossong et al. predicted waning of vaccine-induced immunity 25 years after immunization.[23]

Could we have done something different than vaccinating every human being on the planet multiple times against a relatively mild infectious disease? Was there another path we could have taken in the 1960s? The truth is that there was never a serious study of why there was such a massive decline in deaths before the vaccine. Once there was a vaccine, virtually everyone jumped onto the bandwagon promoting and creating laws to enforce this paradigm. But in 1967, scientists knew that antibodies (the thing that measles vaccine stimulates and which is measured as a mark of immunity) weren’t even needed for normal recovery from measles.[24] Experiments done in the 1940s showed that vitamin C was extremely effective against measles, especially when used in higher doses.[25] Vitamin A also led to a dramatic decline in measles mortality:

Combined analyses showed that massive doses of vitamin A given to patients hospitalized with measles were associated with an approximately 60% reduction in the risk of death overall, and with an approximate 90% reduction among infants…. Administration of vitamin A to children who developed pneumonia before or during hospital stay reduced mortality by about 70% compared with control children.[26]

Trading Places: Lower Disease Incidence vs. Weaker Immunity

Although the mortality rate had decreased over time to very low levels, the incidence of the disease had only slowly declined by 1963. After the introduction of the vaccine, there is a precipitous decline in cases of recorded measles (Figure 10). Some of this decline in incidence is because of how diseases are measured. If you had gotten a vaccine and actually did worse than if you caught natural measles by having a higher fever or atypical measles, you were still counted as not having measles. With the KMV vaccine, forty-eight percent of people had a rash, and 83 percent had fevers up to 106°F post-injection.[27] Yet with the measles vaccine, there was an interruption of viral transmission which reduced wild measles to the very low levels we see today. So the vaccine ultimately did what it was designed to do—reduce the cases of wild measles—even if it took a lot longer and many mistakes along the way to do it.

US Measles Rate vs. Mortality, 1900-1987
Figure 10

Today, the vaccine is not risk-free. How much risk is carried with it? It’s hard to tell because the only tracking of problems is done through a completely voluntary reporting system called the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS). Even the FDA states it receives less than 1% of suspected serious adverse drug reactions.[28] This means only a small fraction of the events that happen are actually reported. Even so, you can still search the VAERS database[29] and quickly discover deaths or other serious problems that are associated with vaccines (Figure 11).

VAERS report 354340
Figure 11

The odds of death are probably low from the vaccine, but then again, so is a death from measles itself. So we’re trying to prevent a relatively low-risk disease that provides stronger immunity with a vaccine that has a low risk of causing problems. Because of this weaker vaccine immunity, there will be calls for vaccinating more and more adults for measles when in the past it was rare for anyone to get measles except as a child. Also keep in mind that maternal antibodies of the vaccinated that are passed to a baby are far weaker than those of people who attained natural immunity.[30] Because of this, babies are now more vulnerable to measles when in the past they would have been protected by stronger maternal antibodies. Now there are considerations for giving the MMR to children at a younger age or their mothers in an attempt to correct this unexpected problem.[31] And these issues are just part of the story.

In the 1950s, it was also observed that mothers often commented on “how much good the attack (of measles) has done their children.”[32] We’re learning today that exposure to microbes is beneficial because it actually stimulates the immune system, reducing allergies and asthma.[33] Was measles a benefit for those who were well nourished? Could we have taken on an approach of evaluating and ensuring the health of children to help them attain lifelong protection from measles while boosting their immune systems? Was this an approach that would not only have benefited children in dealing with measles but simultaneously with other infectious diseases and other health conditions?

In fact there is research showing just that: measles infection had a whole host of positive immune modulating effects that have been shown to be beneficial to people:

There was evidence of association between a negative history of measles, exposure in early life, and development of immunoreactive diseases, sebaceous skin diseases, degenerative diseases of bone and cartilage, and certain tumours.[34]

A reduced risk of Parkinson’s disease was associated with most childhood viral infections. The negative association was statistically significant for a history of measles prior to college entrance.[35]

Our results pointed out a protective role of childhood infectious diseases on the risk of CLL [chronic lymphoid leukaemia] in adults.[36]

Measles and mumps, especially in case of both infections, were associated with lower risks of mortality from atherosclerotic CVD [Cardiovascular Disease].[37]

In the 1970s, measles infections were observed to cause regression of pre-existing cancer tumors in children.[38]

So were the mothers of the 1950s right that an attack of measles had provided their children a benefit? Did the perhaps laudable goal of eliminating measles result in a number of unanticipated increases of other more serious diseases? It certainly appears that by vaccinating with the idea of protecting against measles scientists have been modifying the immune system without fully comprehending what they have been doing and with very few understanding the immunologic blowback.

Fear as a Pretext for Infringing on Individual Rights

Is it really so clear-cut that the CDC and WHO should insist on vaccinating everyone in the United States for measles? Is it reasonable to have politicians who generally don’t understand any of this and who defer to people who have an extreme pro-vaccine bias to make decisions to force everyone to follow a set plan? Keep in mind the CDC states that before the vaccine there were 500 deaths a year from measles[39] and 1-2 children out of a 1,000 (or 1 in 500) will die from the disease.[40] Yet, the actual numbers are a little different than what you see presented. Looking at the data from 5 years before the vaccine, the average number of deaths was 440, not 500. And there is every probability that this number would have continued to decline. The chances of dying if you caught the disease using the same 5 years before the vaccine had an average of 1 in 1,157 not 1 in 500 or even 1 in 1,000. And the odds may have been even better. Some have suggested that the chances of dying from measles were at a much lower rate of 1 to 3 in 10,000.[41]

In the 1920s, the United States was gripped by a Red Scare.[42] President Wilson’s Attorney General, A. Mitchell Palmer conducted a series of raids on individuals he believed were dangerous to American security. He deported immigrants without just cause. Federal agents broke into the homes of suspected anarchists without search warrants, jailed labor leaders, and held about 5,000 citizens without respecting their right to legal counsel. Palmer thought that American civil liberties were less important than rooting out potential wrongdoers.

Today, we’re in the midst of a new red scare in the form of fear of a red measles rash where there are large numbers of people that think that freedom and self determination is less important than being vaccinated. This red scare has led people to propose mandating all vaccines for everyone without exception. Proposals have been made to legally sue those who don’t vaccinate and are blamed for infecting someone else.[43] Ironically, those who are harmed by a vaccine are actually prevented by law from directly suing the vaccine manufacturer.[44]

How long before this hysteria results in parents having their children taken away by the state? Or actually throwing parents in jail for trying to do what’s best for themselves and their children? Do we want to create a society of totalitarian medical rule where you don’t have a choice in anything that is dictated to you by the government and pharmaceutical companies? In the early 1900s, compulsory vaccination laws were used as a justification for forced sterilization of the unfit based on a later-discredited science of eugenics.[45] Tens of thousands of people were forcibly sterilized in the United States, all based on this notion that the State has supreme rights to compel you to get vaccinated.

Shouldn’t we be putting our efforts into things that are far more dangerous than measles? Every year in the United States nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) kill 16,500 people through gastrointestinal complications alone.[46] Secondhand smoke kills 42,000 nonsmokers.[47] Hospital-acquired pressure sores kill 60,000 people.[48] Hospital-acquired infections kill 100,000 people,[49] and one study estimates there are as many as 400,000 premature deaths from preventable medical harms associated with hospital care.[50] The odds of dying because of medical harm associated with hospital care is 1 in 790—a far cry from the 1962 chance of dying from measles at 1 in 457,000. And ironically those pediatric offices where you’re getting your vaccine to protect your healthy child from measles was recently reported at causing 700,000 flu-like illnesses each year in children and family members within two weeks of the visit.[51] That is higher than the approximately 500,000 measles cases that occurred in 1962.

No one is saying that measles wasn’t and isn’t a problem. But put into logical perspective, it’s not something we need to panic over and allow laws to be put in place that strip us all of our human rights to control our own bodies. As a society, we’re far more worried about shark attacks and measles than looking behind the illusions that have led to the deaths of so many more.

Is any of this ever discussed by any of the talking-heads on CNN? Is there an outcry to jail medical professionals for causing so many preventable hospital-acquired harms? Where is the mobilization to stop the 700,000 cases of flu-like illness happening because of pediatric offices? Is Jimmy Kimmel talking about hospitals and how many people die each year because of an infection they acquired in that hospital? No, no, no, and no. Why? Because in large part, many humans react with a primitive fear response instead of objectively looking at facts, examining history, and questioning what they’ve been told.

A version of this article was originally published at

[1] Maia Szalavitz, “10 Ways We Get the Odds Wrong,” Psychology Today, 2008,” ... odds-wrong

[2] Department of Wildlife Ecology & Conservation, Frequently Asked Questions About Venomous Snakes, ... faqs.shtml

[3] Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, General Statistics, ... e-overview

[4] National Geographic Channel Shark Attack Facts,

[5] Opioids drive continued increase in drug overdose deaths, ... eaths.html

[6] Black Death – Wikipedia,

[7] David L. Streiner, Douglas W. MacPherson, and Brian D. Gushulak, PDQ Public Health, 2010, p. 198.

[8] Roy Porter, The Greatest Benefit to Mankind, Harper Collins, New York, 1997, p. 399.

[9] Elisha Kay Aldrich, “Anti-vax is pro-idiot,” March 2, 2015, ... pro-idiot/

[10] Alex Berezow, “Jail ‘anti-vax’ parents,” January 28, 2015, ... /22420771/

[11] Sacha Feinman, “Pediatricians Fight Back Against Anti-Vaxxers, Ban Their Kids,” February 25, 2015, ... te-survey/

[12] Lisa M. Krieger and Jessica Calefati, “Measles outbreak: Vaccination exemption would end under proposed California law,” February 5, 2015, ... us-belief; “No exemptions on immunizations,” Carson says, February 3, 2005, ... rson-says/

[13] Taryn Hillin, “Jimmy Kimmel has the best plan ever to combat anti-vaxxers,” February 27, 2015, ... ine-crowd/

[14] Vital Statistics, British Medical Journal, February 7 1959, p. 381.

[15] “Impact of measles in France”, Reviews of infectious diseases, May-Jun 1983,

[16] Why has France not yet eliminated measles? Vaccines Today, June 5 2014, ... d-measles/

[17] D. Griffin et al., “Measles Vaccines,” Frontiers in Bioscience, vol. 13, January 2008, pp. 1352–1370.

[18] “Death from Measles, Possibly Atypical — Michigan,” Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, June 29, 1979, vol. 28, no. 25, pp. 298-299.

[19] Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, March 25, 1967, vol. 16, no. 12, p. 100.

[20] David J. Sencer, MD; H. Bruce Dull, MD; and Alexander D. Langmuir, MD, “Epidemiologic Basis for Eradication of Measles in 1967,” Public Health Reports, vol. 82, no. 3, March 1967, p. 256.

[21] Recommended Adult Immunization Schedule, by Vaccine and Age Group, United States, 2015, ... adult.html

[22] Vaccines, 6th Edition, p. 1403.

[23] Mark S. Dine, Sonja S. Hutchins, Ann Thomas, Irene Williams, and William J. Bellini, et al., “Persistence of Vaccine-Induced Antibody to Measles 26–33 Years After Vaccination,” Journal of Infectious Diseases, 2004, p. S123.

[24] “Measles as an Index of Immunological Function,” The Lancet, September 14, 1968, p. 611.

[25] Fred R. Klenner, MD, “The Treatment of Poliomyelitis and Other Virus Diseases with Vitamin C,” Southern Medicine & Surgery, July 1949.

[26] Wafaie W. Fawzi, MD; Thomas C. Chalmers, MD; M. Guillermo Herrera, MD; and Frederick Mosteller, PhD, “Vitamin A Supplementation and Child Mortality: A Meta-Analysis,” Journal of the American Medical Association, February 17, 1993, p. 901.

[27] “Measles Vaccine Effective in Test—Injections with Live Virus Protect 100 Per Cent of Children in Epidemics,” New York Times, September 14, 1961.

[28] The Clinical Impact of Adverse Event Reporting, October 1996, ... 168505.pdf


[30] Oxford Textbook of Medicine, vol. 1, 2005, p. 357.

[31] Irja Davidkin, Mia Kontio, Mikko Paunio and Heikki Peltola, “MMR vaccination and disease elimination: the Finnish experience,” Expert Rev. Vaccines, 2010, p. 1050.

[32] Vital Statistics, British Medical Journal, February 7 1959, p. 381.

[33] “Breastfeeding Puts Children At Lower Risk For Allergies And Asthma,” Says New Study, February 22, 2015, ... -new-study

[34] “Measles virus infection without rash in childhood is related to disease in adult life,” Lancet, January 5 1985,

[35] “Measles infection and Parkinson’s disease,” American Journal of Epidemiolgy, December 1985,

[36] “Childhood infectious diseases and risk of leukaemia in an adult population,” International Journal of Cancer, October 15 2013,

[37] “Association of measles and mumps with cardiovascular disease: The Japan Collaborative Cohort (JACC) study,” Atherosclerosis, Jun 18 2015,

[38] “Harnessing The Measles Virus To Attack Cancer,” Science Daily, October 31, 2006, ... 143318.htm

[39] Outbreak–Related Questions and Answers for Healthcare Providers, ... rs-qa.html

[40] Complications of Measles,

[41] “What is the risk of dying if you catch measles?” 2020 Science, February 3 2015, ... -measles/; Andrew Maynard, “Measles mortality rates – 2008-2011 outbreak, France,” Institute for Ethics & Emerging Technologies, February 5 2015,

[42] The Red Scare,

[43] Noah Berlatsky, “Fighting the Anti-Vax Movement With Lawsuits,” February 4, 2015, ... ts/385130/

[44] “No Pharma Liability? No Vaccine Mandates,” March 2, 2011, ... -Liability–No-Vaccine-Mandates-.aspx

[45] Henry E. Sigerist, Civilization and Disease, Cornell University Press, New York, 1943, p. 105.

[46] Singh Gurkirpal, MD, “Recent Considerations in Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug Gastropathy”, The American Journal of Medicine, July 27, 1998, p. 31S

[47] Christopher Wanjek, “Secondhand Smoke Kills 42,000 Nonsmokers a Year in US,” September 28, 2012, ... kders.html

[48] Chandan K. Sen PhD, et al., “Human skin wounds: a major and snowballing threat to public health and the economy,” Wound Repair Regen, 2009, pp. 763-771.

[49] Deoine Reed, PhD and Sandra A. Kemmerly, MD, “Infection Control and Prevention: A Review of Hospital-Acquired Infections and the Economic Implications,” The Ochsner Journal, spring 2009, pp. 27-31.

[50] John T. James PhD, “A new, evidence-based estimate of patient harms associated with hospital care,” Journal of Patient Safety, September 2013, pp. 122-128.

[51] “Well-child visits linked to more than 700,000 subsequent flu-like illnesses,” February 12, 2014, ... 144611.htm
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Grizzly » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:59 pm

The Psychological Roots of Anti-Vaccination Attitudes: A 24-Nation Investigation
Objective: Strengthening of antivaccination movements in recent decades has coincided with unprecedented increases in the incidence of some communicable diseases. Many intervention programs work

from a deficit model of science communication, presuming that vaccination skeptics lack the ability to access or understand evidence. However, interventions focusing on evidence and the debunking of
vaccine-related myths have proven to be either nonproductive or counterproductive. Working from a motivated reasoning perspective, we examine the psychological factors that might motivate people to
reject scientific consensus around vaccination. To assist with international generalizability, we examine this question in 24 countries. Methods: We sampled 5,323 participants in 24 countries, and measured their antivaccination attitudes. We also measured their belief in conspiracy theories, reactance (the
tendency for people to have a low tolerance for impingements on their freedoms), disgust sensitivity toward blood and needles, and individualistic/hierarchical worldviews (i.e., people’s beliefs about how
much control society should have over individuals, and whether hierarchies are desirable). Results: In order of magnitude, antivaccination attitudes were highest among those who (a) were high in conspiratorial thinking, (b) were high in reactance, (c) reported high levels of disgust toward blood and needles, and (d) had strong individualistic/hierarchical worldviews. In contrast, demographic variables (including
education) accounted for nonsignificant or trivial levels of variance.
Conclusions: These data help identify the “attitude roots” that may motivate and sustain vaccine skepticism. In so doing, they help shed light on why repetition of evidence can be nonproductive, and suggest communication solutions to that
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby DrEvil » Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:32 pm

^^I'm shocked! No wait, the opposite. Everything that disagrees with the anti-vax position is obviously part of Big Pharma's conspiracy, and only a select few have special Knowledge and know the real Truth. I find it particularly funny how they can dismiss everything said by the experts, except for these special experts who can't say a word wrong and are practically the second coming of Jesus. How do they differentiate and tell if an expert is full of shit or not?

Meanwhile, maybe some pictures of the consequences will change some minds, as logic, reason, mountains of evidence and angry shouting don't seem to work (horrible and heartbreaking images, so click with care, except AOC, you should definitely have a look): ... asles.html

Tl;dr: unvaccinated kid with measles infected a two year old with autoimmune syndrome, and the two year old died. Thanks, Wakefield.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:59 pm

Caroline Orr
14th February 2019

The Deadly Anti-Vaxxer Movement: Started in Britain, Co-opted by Trump, Boosted by Putin

Supporters of Dr Andrew Wakefield, the doctor at the centre of the MMR scandal, outside the GMC in London.
As Washington State declares a state of emergency over measles, populist misinformation over vaccination is putting children’s lives at risk

The modern anti-vaccination movement can be traced back to a now-retracted fraudulent study published by British doctor Andrew Wakefield in 1998.

The paper, which claimed to show a link between the MMR (Measles/Mumps/Rubella) vaccine and autism, was quickly refuted, then retracted, and eventually found to be be the product of falsified data.

The incident resulted in Wakefield being stripped of his medical license, as well as his credibility. But, while Wakefield is now considered a pariah in the field of medicine, he has found a kindred spirit in none other than Donald Trump.

Trump has a very public history of espousing anti-vaccination beliefs and promoting conspiracy theories about vaccines and autism. He hasn’t used the White House to push these views, but he has frequently taken to Twitter to spread vaccine-related misinformation.


On more than 20 occasions, Trump has tweeted falsehoods claiming that there is a link between vaccination and autism (there’s not). He has never retracted those false claims, nor addressed them publicly since taking office.

In the summer of 2016, Trump met with Wakefield and other prominent ‘leaders’ of the anti-vaccination movement, and expressed interest in meeting with anti-vaccine activists in the future. Wakefield even got an invitation to Trump’s inaugural ball, which he accepted.

Trump’s meeting with Wakefield energised the anti-vaccine movement, which viewed then-candidate Trump as a vessel to bring their anti-science crusade into the White House.

Right-wing populists like Trump are a natural ally of anti-science crusades. Both movements thrive on values such as contempt for the elite establishment and antagonism toward intellectuals.

In addition to sowing division, the promulgation of conspiracy theories and disinformation about vaccines appears to have a broader goal: undermining trust in democratic institutions, shared knowledge, and, ultimately, the notion of truth altogether.
And just like many populist movements have received support from Russia in recent years, so, too, has the anti-vaccine movement.

The Russian Troll Farm Steps In

At the same time that Trump was giving new life to the anti-vaccine movement, the Kremlin was actively promoting anti-vaccine conspiracy theories on social media.

According to a 2018 study published in the American Journal of Public Health, Russia’s Internet Research Agency (commonly referred to as the “troll factory”) was involved in pushing conspiracy theories and disinformation about vaccines before and during the 2016 presidential campaign.

The study, which examined nearly 1.8 million tweets posted between July 2014 and September 2017, found that accounts linked to the Internet Research Agency were significantly more likely to tweet about vaccination than the average user and, when they did, they used the same polarising tactics that were deployed to sow division during the election.

Right-wing populists like Trump are a natural ally of anti-science crusades. Both movements thrive on values such as contempt for the elite establishment and antagonism toward intellectuals.
“Content from these sources gives equal attention to pro- and anti-vaccination arguments,” the study reported. “This is consistent with a strategy of promoting discord across a range of controversial topics – a known tactic employed by Russian troll accounts.”

Many of the tweets sent by Russian accounts linked vaccination to controversial issues in American society, such as racial and socioeconomic inequalities. while others called into question the legitimacy of the U.S. government.

What is Russia Doing Meddling in Medicine?

These are the same tactics Russia used in 2016, and continued to use throughout 2018, to achieve its goals of dividing US society, sowing distrust, and, more broadly, undermining faith in democratic institutions, including medical and scientific establishments.

Trump has proven to be the best ally the Kremlin could imagine.
As the Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats stated in August 2018: “[W]e continue to see a pervasive messaging campaign by Russia to try to weaken and divide the United States.”

The American public has proven to be a receptive audience for anti-vaccine messages and the consequences have been dire. Measles has been on the rise in recent years, and 2019 is on pace to be among the worst years in the last decade. From January 1 to February 7, more than 100 cases were reported in 10 states.

In late January, Washington Governor Jay Inslee declared a state of emergency after 35 cases of measles were confirmed in a single county. According to the State Department of Health, there are now at least 54 cases of the disease, all but one of which were located in Clark County, Washington, where nearly a quarter of school-aged children have not received the MMR vaccine.

In addition to sowing division, the promulgation of conspiracy theories and disinformation about vaccines appears to have a broader goal: undermining trust in democratic institutions, shared knowledge, and, ultimately, the notion of truth altogether.

If that’s the goal, Trump has proven to be the best ally the Kremlin could imagine, even at the expense of public health, well-being, and perhaps democracy. ... -by-putin/

Darla Shine, Wife of Top Trump Official Bill Shine, Goes on Pro-Measles, Anti-Vax Rant
‘Bring back our #ChildhoodDiseases,’ wrote the former Fox News executive’s wife, ‘they keep you healthy & fight cancer.’ Surprise: she’s dangerously wrong.

Tanya Basu
02.13.19 12:16 PM ET

The wife of a top Trump White House official went on an unhinged anti-vaccination Twitter rant Wednesday morning, wrongly suggesting that the deadly measles virus could be beneficial.

Darla Shine, a former TV producer, is the wife of Bill Shine, a former Fox News executive and current White House deputy chief of staff for communications. Her rant was sparked by a CNN segment on the measles outbreak in Washington and Oregon, which has thus far seen more than 50 unvaccinated individuals contracting the disease—in addition to more than 200 cases in New York.

“Here we go LOL #measlesoutbreak on #CNN,” she wrote in response to the segment. “#Fake #Hysteria.”

“The entire Baby Boom population alive today had the #Measles as kids,” she bizarrely added. “Bring back our #ChildhoodDiseases they keep you healthy & fight cancer.”

The MMR (measles-mumps-rubella) vaccine has been repeatedly proven by scientific circles to be safe and effective against measles, which causes painful rashes that can potentially affect organs and lead to death, particularly among those whose immune systems are compromised.

Nevertheless, Shine doubled down on her anti-vaccination claim, suggesting that her having measles was similar to a child getting chicken pox and gaining lifelong immunity. “I had the #Measles #Mumps #ChickenPox as a child and so did every kid I knew,” she wrote. “Sadly my kids had #MMR so they will never have the life long natural immunity I have. Come breathe on me!”

Shine is correct that having measles as a child protected her from getting the disease again, but she’s wrong that her kids having received the MMR vaccine is “sad.”

Because the disease was eradicated in the U.S. in the early 1990s, people born after that time do not have the immunity to fight the disease. Shine’s children were not only protected from potential death, but also were able to protect others from contracting the disease through herd immunity—or the idea that since most people in a population had the vaccine, they were protected as a “herd.”

In fact, most measles-related deaths are in children under the age of 5 and adults over the age of 30 who are unvaccinated. Measles grants immunity after the disease has passed but can cause serious lifelong issues like blindness, encephalitis (brain swelling), and severe respiratory issues that can lead to pneumonia and death.

After several more tweets accusing her critics of being “trolls” or “Democrat Russian bots,” Shine went so far as to suggest that the measles virus kills cancer.

Shine’s claim that having measles will stave off cancer is completely wrong.

The research she cited was a clinical experiment in which six myeloma patients were given a “concentrated, lab-engineered measles virus,” according to a 2014 story from CNN. In basic terms, the measles virus linked cancer cells together, then exploded, mirroring what the immune system should do but wasn’t done for a cancer patient. The experiment was successful in sending one patient to remission, but the other patients didn’t respond.

The irony? The virus that was given as part of the therapy was structured similarly to a measles vaccine.

Shine’s comments invited immediate scorn from prominent media figures, who noted that a top White House official’s wife was actively spreading anti-vaccination conspiracy theories.

Shine’s comments come at a critical time in the vaccine debate. Just last week, anti-vaxxer Robert F. Kennedy Jr.—nephew of President John F. Kennedy—testified at a Washington state hearing against a bill that would require all entering kindergartners and/or daycare kids to get vaccinated.

Measles Outbreak in NY Orthodox Jewish Areas Hits 200 Cases

Molly C. Enking

This is not the first time Darla Shine has started a national controversy via her social-media accounts. Shortly after her husband was announced in his new Trump role, a bevy of Darla’s racist, sexist, transphobic, or conspiratorial Twitter posts were unearthed.
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Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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