Vaccine - Autism link

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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby DrEvil » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:56 am

^^Not sure I would consider Dr. Hyman a reputable source. He's, to put it mildly, controversial. Just him going on Goop for a Q&A should be a huge red flag imo.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby DrEvil » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:05 pm

stickdog99 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:37 pm wrote:
DrEvil » 15 Mar 2019 12:24 wrote:
Agent Orange Cooper » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:42 am wrote:
DrEvil » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:30 am wrote:And no, I wouldn't be worried if there was thimerosal in my vaccines, because there is zero evidence that it is actually harmful in the amounts present.


:ohno:


I'm guessing you have evidence then? Please share!

Edit: I was vaccinated before they removed thimerosal from the vaccines, so I've already tried it, and I'm still here yelling at you. I'm not even autistic. Also, I meant to say "evidence from reputable sources". Preferably peer reviewed and not anonymous and self-published.


See, this is my fundamental problem with both you and your hero Skeptical Raptor. You are both 100% willing to defend to to death even something that is plainly stupid and harmful to anyone who can still fire two brain cells together, such as completely unnecessary mercury preservatives in vaccines.

How about mercury amalgam tooth fillings? Are you, like Skeptical Raptor, also willing to defend these [i]"because there is zero evidence that it is actually harmful in the amounts present."[/b] If so, I wonder if you see the lack of irony in your chosen screen name.


What about mercury amalgam tooth fillings? Dentists could make a small fortune through some light fear-mongering if they thought they were dangerous and convinced everyone to have them replaced with more expensive alternatives, but they haven't. I guess they're the one subset of big pharma who aren't greedy, amoral fuckers.

That said, if they come up with an alternative that's as cheap and durable then by all means, go for that instead and phase out mercury.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Agent Orange Cooper » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:10 pm

DrEvil » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:05 pm wrote:What about mercury amalgam tooth fillings? Dentists could make a small fortune through some light fear-mongering if they thought they were dangerous and convinced everyone to have them replaced with more expensive alternatives, but they haven't. I guess they're the one subset of big pharma who aren't greedy, amoral fuckers.

That said, if they come up with an alternative that's as cheap and durable then by all means, go for that instead and phase out mercury.


What incredible depth of insight you have on this topic. Your knowledge truly knows no bounds. I am awestruck.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby liminalOyster » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:48 pm

DrEvil » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:05 pm wrote:What about mercury amalgam tooth fillings? Dentists could make a small fortune through some light fear-mongering if they thought they were dangerous and convinced everyone to have them replaced with more expensive alternatives, but they haven't.


Well, some have, actually. Check out holistic/biological dentistry.

ps. Hyman's a mixed bag but he's not all bad by any stretch.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby DrEvil » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:44 pm

Agent Orange Cooper » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:10 pm wrote:
DrEvil » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:05 pm wrote:What about mercury amalgam tooth fillings? Dentists could make a small fortune through some light fear-mongering if they thought they were dangerous and convinced everyone to have them replaced with more expensive alternatives, but they haven't. I guess they're the one subset of big pharma who aren't greedy, amoral fuckers.

That said, if they come up with an alternative that's as cheap and durable then by all means, go for that instead and phase out mercury.


What incredible depth of insight you have on this topic. Your knowledge truly knows no bounds. I am awestruck.


Ah yes, the good old trolling. How about them antibiotics, huh? *

But have you ever known a medical practitioner to pass up a quick buck? I mean, that's half your spiel, that big pharma and their loyal foot soldiers are just greedy and in it for the money.

* You still haven't told me why you think we should use more antibiotics. The suspense is killing me!
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Agent Orange Cooper » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:56 pm

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/13/politics ... index.html

US warship quarantined at sea due to virus outbreak

By Barbara Starr, CNN Pentagon Correspondent

Updated 1:50 PM ET, Wed March 13, 2019

(CNN) A US warship has essentially been quarantined at sea for over two months and has been unable to make a port call due to an outbreak of a viral infection similar to mumps.

Twenty-five sailors and Marines aboard the USS Fort McHenry amphibious warship have been diagnosed with parotitis, which causes symptoms similar to mumps, according to US military officials.

Until CNN asked about the incident, the US military had not disclosed it. The illness first broke out in December, with the most recent case being reported on March 9.

"None of the cases are life-threatening and all have either already made or are expected to make a full recovery," the Fifth Fleet said in a statement provided to CNN.

All seven hundred and three military personnel aboard the ship have received measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) booster vaccinations, according to the US Navy's Fifth Fleet headquartered in Bahrain.


Note, for future reference, that whenever a outbreak occurs within a fully vaccinated population, it will be framed in pharmaceutical media such that the outbreak is never the infection for which the population is fully vaccinated, but only a condition "similar to" that infection, or which "causes symptoms similar to" that infection. The only real difference is one of diagnosis (that's how they made you think we eradicated polio, too).
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby DrEvil » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:58 pm

liminalOyster » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:48 pm wrote:
DrEvil » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:05 pm wrote:What about mercury amalgam tooth fillings? Dentists could make a small fortune through some light fear-mongering if they thought they were dangerous and convinced everyone to have them replaced with more expensive alternatives, but they haven't.


Well, some have, actually. Check out holistic/biological dentistry.

ps. Hyman's a mixed bag but he's not all bad by any stretch.


Yeah, but that's more a reaction to the "alternative healthcare" market segment than to amalgam being proven hazardous. People want holistic dentistry so someone is selling it.

I'll take a closer look at Dr. Hyman before I renounce him as the spawn of Satan. :)
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby stickdog99 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:14 am

DrEvil » 15 Mar 2019 16:05 wrote:
stickdog99 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:37 pm wrote:
DrEvil » 15 Mar 2019 12:24 wrote:
Agent Orange Cooper » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:42 am wrote:
DrEvil » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:30 am wrote:And no, I wouldn't be worried if there was thimerosal in my vaccines, because there is zero evidence that it is actually harmful in the amounts present.


:ohno:


I'm guessing you have evidence then? Please share!

Edit: I was vaccinated before they removed thimerosal from the vaccines, so I've already tried it, and I'm still here yelling at you. I'm not even autistic. Also, I meant to say "evidence from reputable sources". Preferably peer reviewed and not anonymous and self-published.


See, this is my fundamental problem with both you and your hero Skeptical Raptor. You are both 100% willing to defend to to death even something that is plainly stupid and harmful to anyone who can still fire two brain cells together, such as completely unnecessary mercury preservatives in vaccines.

How about mercury amalgam tooth fillings? Are you, like Skeptical Raptor, also willing to defend these [i]"because there is zero evidence that it is actually harmful in the amounts present."[/b] If so, I wonder if you see the lack of irony in your chosen screen name.


What about mercury amalgam tooth fillings? Dentists could make a small fortune through some light fear-mongering if they thought they were dangerous and convinced everyone to have them replaced with more expensive alternatives, but they haven't. I guess they're the one subset of big pharma who aren't greedy, amoral fuckers.

That said, if they come up with an alternative that's as cheap and durable then by all means, go for that instead and phase out mercury.


LOL. Is this your final word on this topic? I mean, really? Seriously? Really? Seriously?

Do you think this is the JREF forum or something?
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Cordelia » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:41 am

liminalOyster » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:48 pm wrote:
DrEvil » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:05 pm wrote:What about mercury amalgam tooth fillings? Dentists could make a small fortune through some light fear-mongering if they thought they were dangerous and convinced everyone to have them replaced with more expensive alternatives, but they haven't.


Well, some have, actually. Check out holistic/biological dentistry.


I asked my dentist’s office yesterday if they still use amalgam fillings and was told that, though they will occasionally, 99% are now done with composite; acrylic resin.


Composite Equal to or Better Than Amalgam, New Study Shows

by staff | Nov 27, 2018 | Mercury/Heavy Metals

One of the most common defenses of mercury amalgam fillings you still hear these days is that they last so much longer than tooth-colored composites. This statement from Delta Dental is typical: With more durable resin material available for only a decade, resins...

One of the most common defenses of mercury amalgam fillings you still hear these days is that they last so much longer than tooth-colored composites. This statement from Delta Dental is typical:

With more durable resin material available for only a decade, resins haven’t stood the test of time in teeth where grinding and chewing result in heavy wear; by contrast, the durability of amalgam fillings is well documented — the average life span of amalgams is 8 to 10 years, but many last 20 years or more.

Considering that those fillings continuously release toxic mercury vapor, longevity is hardly a virtue here.

But we digress.

While this durability argument may have held true back in the early days of composite, new research shows that today’s materials can hold their own against amalgam.

Consider the study on fillings published just last week in Frontiers in Medicine. Wanting to see why some fillings fail, researchers screened nearly 5000 patient records from the University of Pittsburgh School of Dental Medicine and looked at the outcomes of over 8000 fillings.

A few factors seemed to make failure more likely: smoking , tobacco use, alcohol use, and a difference in the gene for matrix metalloproteinase (MMP2). This is an enzyme found in teeth that can degrade all kinds of proteins in the extracellular matrix secreted by cells. The new research suggests that it may be able to degrade the bond between a filling and its tooth surface, as well.

Either way, as noted in a news release on the study,

the results suggest that personal factors for each patient appear to influence their chance of filling failure, rather than the filling material their dentist used.

And here’s where things get interesting. “Our data,” note the authors,

also show that direct composite resins perform similarly (and maybe slightly better) to amalgam in posterior teeth up to 5 years and are suitable substitutes for their metallic counterparts, making it feasible to completely replace amalgam in dentistry. The justification of using amalgam due to its lower costs alone in contrast to the potential of eliminating an environmental hazard has become harder to support now that direct composite resins can perform at acceptable levels.

They go on to emphasize that most of the composites placed were by beginning dentists – a fact that also speaks to the virtues of modern composites.

The statistically significant lower failure rate of posterior composite resin versus amalgam restorations with 5 years follow-up in our study, despite the fact that direct composite resins are more technique sensitive than amalgam, further suggest that the first can replace the latter.


In our view, toxicity concerns alone are enough of a reason to stop using this out-of-date material, with respect to personal and environmental health alike. These latest findings only stress the fact that there’s no good reason to stick with this material. There are better options out there.


Those are the ones we choose to use in our practice.

https://www.tmjdental.com/mercuryheavy- ... udy-shows/


I know I don't want heavy metals sealed into my mouth any more than I want to drink them in water or see them injected directly into children.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby stickdog99 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:23 pm

Cordelia » 16 Mar 2019 14:41 wrote:
liminalOyster » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:48 pm wrote:
DrEvil » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:05 pm wrote:What about mercury amalgam tooth fillings? Dentists could make a small fortune through some light fear-mongering if they thought they were dangerous and convinced everyone to have them replaced with more expensive alternatives, but they haven't.


Well, some have, actually. Check out holistic/biological dentistry.


I asked my dentist’s office yesterday if they still use amalgam fillings and was told that, though they will occasionally, 99% are now done with composite; acrylic resin.


Composite Equal to or Better Than Amalgam, New Study Shows

by staff | Nov 27, 2018 | Mercury/Heavy Metals

One of the most common defenses of mercury amalgam fillings you still hear these days is that they last so much longer than tooth-colored composites. This statement from Delta Dental is typical: With more durable resin material available for only a decade, resins...

One of the most common defenses of mercury amalgam fillings you still hear these days is that they last so much longer than tooth-colored composites. This statement from Delta Dental is typical:

With more durable resin material available for only a decade, resins haven’t stood the test of time in teeth where grinding and chewing result in heavy wear; by contrast, the durability of amalgam fillings is well documented — the average life span of amalgams is 8 to 10 years, but many last 20 years or more.

Considering that those fillings continuously release toxic mercury vapor, longevity is hardly a virtue here.

But we digress.

While this durability argument may have held true back in the early days of composite, new research shows that today’s materials can hold their own against amalgam.

Consider the study on fillings published just last week in Frontiers in Medicine. Wanting to see why some fillings fail, researchers screened nearly 5000 patient records from the University of Pittsburgh School of Dental Medicine and looked at the outcomes of over 8000 fillings.

A few factors seemed to make failure more likely: smoking , tobacco use, alcohol use, and a difference in the gene for matrix metalloproteinase (MMP2). This is an enzyme found in teeth that can degrade all kinds of proteins in the extracellular matrix secreted by cells. The new research suggests that it may be able to degrade the bond between a filling and its tooth surface, as well.

Either way, as noted in a news release on the study,

the results suggest that personal factors for each patient appear to influence their chance of filling failure, rather than the filling material their dentist used.

And here’s where things get interesting. “Our data,” note the authors,

also show that direct composite resins perform similarly (and maybe slightly better) to amalgam in posterior teeth up to 5 years and are suitable substitutes for their metallic counterparts, making it feasible to completely replace amalgam in dentistry. The justification of using amalgam due to its lower costs alone in contrast to the potential of eliminating an environmental hazard has become harder to support now that direct composite resins can perform at acceptable levels.

They go on to emphasize that most of the composites placed were by beginning dentists – a fact that also speaks to the virtues of modern composites.

The statistically significant lower failure rate of posterior composite resin versus amalgam restorations with 5 years follow-up in our study, despite the fact that direct composite resins are more technique sensitive than amalgam, further suggest that the first can replace the latter.


In our view, toxicity concerns alone are enough of a reason to stop using this out-of-date material, with respect to personal and environmental health alike. These latest findings only stress the fact that there’s no good reason to stick with this material. There are better options out there.


Those are the ones we choose to use in our practice.

https://www.tmjdental.com/mercuryheavy- ... udy-shows/


I know I don't want heavy metals sealed into my mouth any more than I want to drink them in water or see them injected directly into children.


It's hilarious to me that the EPA will shut down any dentist who throws any mercury amalgam fillings in the sewer or garbage, while Dr. Evil, Skeptic Raptor, the ADA, the AMA, and the FDA continue to insist that the only safe place for mercury in our entire environment is in our mouths and veins.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Cordelia » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:10 pm

^^^ Safer for a patient's mouth to be the container of otherwise toxic waste! :roll:

Image


European Union bans amalgam fillings for children and pregnant or nursing women


"The next generation of Europe's children are safe from toxic dental mercury," proclaims Charlie Brown, president of Consumers for Dental Choice and the umbrella World Alliance for Mercury-Free Dentistry.


Starting July 1, 2018, amalgam use is banned for children under the age of 15 and for pregnant or nursing women — anywhere in the vast European Union (EU)1,2 — 28 countries in all, with a population totaling more than half a billion people.

"This landmark achievement still has to be officially ratified," Charlie says, "but all three European Union institutions, the [European] commission, the Council [of the European Union] and the European Parliament have reached consensus.

"The ban on amalgam for children in Europe, we promise you, will reverberate in favor of the children across the world — in America North and South, in Africa, and in Asia and the Pacific," said Brown.

"The game changer that will do in amalgam is the Minamata Convention on Mercury, which requires every participating nation to act to reduce amalgam use. The Convention is expected to become legally binding in the middle of 2017."
The hard-fought victory in Europe came after six grueling years of reports, hearings before the Commission, meetings at the Parliament, events in the national capital cities and in the E.U. capital city of Brussels, and submission of testimony to a seemingly unending number of players.

Civil society — the public — mobilized at a level rarely seen on an issue so intertwined between environment and health concerns.

In an internet vote called by the European Commission, 88 percent of the public voted for a phase-out of amalgam as opposed to only 12 percent to keep amalgam — and voter turnout was double that of any other Minamata issue.

European-wide nonprofit groups brought their networks to the forefront, and were joined by nation-based environmental and patient rights' groups from France, Germany, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland, Sweden, Denmark, the United Kingdom, Portugal, Spain and Italy.

At the outset of the campaign in 2010, every major European Union institution supported amalgam. At the end, in 2016, no major European Union institution did.

https://www.sott.net/article/337861-Eur ... sing-women
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby stickdog99 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:23 pm

Cordelia » 16 Mar 2019 18:10 wrote:^^^ Safer for a patient's mouth to be the container of otherwise toxic waste! :roll:

Image


^^^ Finally, we have have achieved full containment!

Image
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby DrEvil » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:44 pm

stickdog99 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:14 am wrote:
DrEvil » 15 Mar 2019 16:05 wrote:
stickdog99 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:37 pm wrote:
DrEvil » 15 Mar 2019 12:24 wrote:
Agent Orange Cooper » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:42 am wrote:
DrEvil » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:30 am wrote:And no, I wouldn't be worried if there was thimerosal in my vaccines, because there is zero evidence that it is actually harmful in the amounts present.


:ohno:


I'm guessing you have evidence then? Please share!

Edit: I was vaccinated before they removed thimerosal from the vaccines, so I've already tried it, and I'm still here yelling at you. I'm not even autistic. Also, I meant to say "evidence from reputable sources". Preferably peer reviewed and not anonymous and self-published.


See, this is my fundamental problem with both you and your hero Skeptical Raptor. You are both 100% willing to defend to to death even something that is plainly stupid and harmful to anyone who can still fire two brain cells together, such as completely unnecessary mercury preservatives in vaccines.

How about mercury amalgam tooth fillings? Are you, like Skeptical Raptor, also willing to defend these [i]"because there is zero evidence that it is actually harmful in the amounts present."[/b] If so, I wonder if you see the lack of irony in your chosen screen name.


What about mercury amalgam tooth fillings? Dentists could make a small fortune through some light fear-mongering if they thought they were dangerous and convinced everyone to have them replaced with more expensive alternatives, but they haven't. I guess they're the one subset of big pharma who aren't greedy, amoral fuckers.

That said, if they come up with an alternative that's as cheap and durable then by all means, go for that instead and phase out mercury.


LOL. Is this your final word on this topic? I mean, really? Seriously? Really? Seriously?

Do you think this is the JREF forum or something?


Not conspiratorial enough for you? What a shock.

What's so bad about being okay with a better alternative being used? It's not like I want mandatory amalgam fillings or something, it's just that on the scale of things to freak out about it's pretty low on mine, unlike say, the spread of preventable diseases or climate change, both of which fuck up the lives of millions of people every year.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby stickdog99 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:01 pm

DrEvil » 16 Mar 2019 18:44 wrote:
stickdog99 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:14 am wrote:
DrEvil » 15 Mar 2019 16:05 wrote:
stickdog99 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:37 pm wrote:
DrEvil » 15 Mar 2019 12:24 wrote:
Agent Orange Cooper » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:42 am wrote:
DrEvil » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:30 am wrote:And no, I wouldn't be worried if there was thimerosal in my vaccines, because there is zero evidence that it is actually harmful in the amounts present.


:ohno:


I'm guessing you have evidence then? Please share!

Edit: I was vaccinated before they removed thimerosal from the vaccines, so I've already tried it, and I'm still here yelling at you. I'm not even autistic. Also, I meant to say "evidence from reputable sources". Preferably peer reviewed and not anonymous and self-published.


See, this is my fundamental problem with both you and your hero Skeptical Raptor. You are both 100% willing to defend to to death even something that is plainly stupid and harmful to anyone who can still fire two brain cells together, such as completely unnecessary mercury preservatives in vaccines.

How about mercury amalgam tooth fillings? Are you, like Skeptical Raptor, also willing to defend these [i]"because there is zero evidence that it is actually harmful in the amounts present."[/b] If so, I wonder if you see the lack of irony in your chosen screen name.


What about mercury amalgam tooth fillings? Dentists could make a small fortune through some light fear-mongering if they thought they were dangerous and convinced everyone to have them replaced with more expensive alternatives, but they haven't. I guess they're the one subset of big pharma who aren't greedy, amoral fuckers.

That said, if they come up with an alternative that's as cheap and durable then by all means, go for that instead and phase out mercury.


LOL. Is this your final word on this topic? I mean, really? Seriously? Really? Seriously?

Do you think this is the JREF forum or something?


Not conspiratorial enough for you? What a shock.

What's so bad about being okay with a better alternative being used? It's not like I want mandatory amalgam fillings or something, it's just that on the scale of things to freak out about it's pretty low on mine, unlike say, the spread of preventable diseases or climate change, both of which fuck up the lives of millions of people every year.


So you are perfectly fine with the idea of continuing to shove hundreds of tons of mercury in people's mouths until there is a "better alternative"?

You are priceless. Just like your hero "Skeptical" Raptor, anything that is ma$$ produced, even toxic waste that clearly destroys entire ecosystems, must by definition be awesome until "proven" otherwise by our beneficent orthodoxy!

Perfectly harmless stuff. LOL.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby DrEvil » Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:11 pm

Cordelia » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:10 pm wrote:^^^ Safer for a patient's mouth to be the container of otherwise toxic waste! :roll:

Image


European Union bans amalgam fillings for children and pregnant or nursing women


"The next generation of Europe's children are safe from toxic dental mercury," proclaims Charlie Brown, president of Consumers for Dental Choice and the umbrella World Alliance for Mercury-Free Dentistry.


Starting July 1, 2018, amalgam use is banned for children under the age of 15 and for pregnant or nursing women — anywhere in the vast European Union (EU)1,2 — 28 countries in all, with a population totaling more than half a billion people.

"This landmark achievement still has to be officially ratified," Charlie says, "but all three European Union institutions, the [European] commission, the Council [of the European Union] and the European Parliament have reached consensus.

"The ban on amalgam for children in Europe, we promise you, will reverberate in favor of the children across the world — in America North and South, in Africa, and in Asia and the Pacific," said Brown.

"The game changer that will do in amalgam is the Minamata Convention on Mercury, which requires every participating nation to act to reduce amalgam use. The Convention is expected to become legally binding in the middle of 2017."
The hard-fought victory in Europe came after six grueling years of reports, hearings before the Commission, meetings at the Parliament, events in the national capital cities and in the E.U. capital city of Brussels, and submission of testimony to a seemingly unending number of players.

Civil society — the public — mobilized at a level rarely seen on an issue so intertwined between environment and health concerns.

In an internet vote called by the European Commission, 88 percent of the public voted for a phase-out of amalgam as opposed to only 12 percent to keep amalgam — and voter turnout was double that of any other Minamata issue.

European-wide nonprofit groups brought their networks to the forefront, and were joined by nation-based environmental and patient rights' groups from France, Germany, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland, Sweden, Denmark, the United Kingdom, Portugal, Spain and Italy.

At the outset of the campaign in 2010, every major European Union institution supported amalgam. At the end, in 2016, no major European Union institution did.

https://www.sott.net/article/337861-Eur ... sing-women


Thanks, but I have to say, sott.net is not a reliable source. In this particular case they seem to have gotten the facts more or less straight (even if it was written by *shudder* Dr. Mercola), but looking at some of their other articles is just... wow. Darwinism lead to Stalin and Hitler and if you believe in it you're probably a psychopath, Netanyahu is a dictator, AOC is misquoted like crazy and climate change is all a big hoax.
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