Vaccine - Autism link

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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby DrEvil » Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:21 am

Agent Orange Cooper » Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:19 am wrote:https://healthimpactnews.com/2019/almost-quarter-billion-dollars-paid-out-for-vaccine-injuries-by-u-s-government-in-2019/

A quarter of a billion dollars of taxpayer money has been shelled out to victims of vaccine injury. Why are vaccine manufacturers NOT liable for their product? Why are they special?


Because hysterical anti-vaxxers kept suing them for bullshit reasons so a lot of companies just stopped making vaccines, and since the government is trying to get everyone to vaccinate they decided to take on some of the liability to ensure a good supply. Most of those 250 million were paid out because it's cheaper than dragging things out through the courts.

What does it mean to be awarded compensation?

Being awarded compensation for a petition does not necessarily mean that the vaccine caused the alleged injury. In fact:

Approximately 70% of all compensation awarded by the VICP comes as result of a negotiated settlement between the parties in which HHS has not concluded, based upon review of the evidence, that the alleged vaccine(s) caused the alleged injury.

Attorneys are eligible for reasonable attorneys’ fees, whether or not the petitioner is awarded compensation by the Court, if certain minimal requirements are met. In those circumstances, attorneys are paid by the VICP directly. By statute, attorneys may not charge any other fee, including a contingency fee, for his or her services in representing a petitioner in the VICP.

What reasons might a petition result in a negotiated settlement?

Consideration of prior U.S. Court of Federal Claims decisions, both parties decide to minimize risk of loss through settlement

A desire to minimize the time and expense of litigating a case

The desire to resolve a petition quickly

How many petitions have been awarded compensation?

According to the CDC, from 2006 to 2017 over 3.4 billion doses of covered vaccines were distributed in the U.S. For petitions filed in this time period, 6,529 petitions were adjudicated by the Court, and of those 4,493 were compensated. This means for every one million doses of vaccine that were distributed, approximately one individual was compensated.

Since 1988, over 21,303 petitions have been filed with the VICP. Over that 30-year time period, 18,358 petitions have been adjudicated, with 6,947 of those determined to be compensable, while 11,411 were dismissed. Total compensation paid over the life of the program is approximately $4.2 billion.

https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensati ... index.html

So, about one in every one million gets a payout, contrasted with measles that has a one in a thousand chance of outright killing you (much higher in poorer countries). You can choose to do something that has a 0.000001% chance (actually much lower, but for the sake of argument) of hurting your kid, or something that has a 0.001% chance of killing them. Choices choices.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby DrEvil » Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:33 am

Harvey » Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:09 am wrote:
DrEvil » Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:20 pm wrote:^^The US has pretty decent vaccination rates overall (almost as good as all the immigrants from South and Central America), but the anti-vaxxers keep targeting various smaller, isolated communities (religious in New York, Somali in Minnesota etc.), so there are small pockets dotted around the map where diseases can gain a foothold and start spreading, and that's exactly why people keep harping on about herd immunity, because as soon as enough people are vaccinated the diseases can't get a foothold to begin with. That's how we eradicated smallpox, and that's what would have happened to measles too if fucking Wakefield hadn't shown up with his fraudulent horseshit.

Samoa had a vaccination rate of over 90% not many years ago, and then for various reasons, one of them being anti-vaxxers, another being two nurses fucking up and accidentally mixing the vaccine with expired muscle relaxant and killing two kids (which of course the anti-vaxxers immediately jumped on as proof that vaccines are dangerous), the vaccination rate dropped to around 30-35%, and voila! instant measles epidemic. Now the entire country is on lockdown and children are dying left and right.

As for autism, after Wakefield there was a ton of studies, and all of them concluded that vaccines don't cause autism, but because so many people were freaking out they decided to remove thimerosal from the vaccines anyway because it was easier than dealing with the hysterical people, and autism rates didn't change.

Internationally the worst areas are war zones, places with poor healthcare and education and places targeted by anti-vaxxers and the occasional Russian psyop. Ukraine for instance has it bad.

The ebola outbreak is having serious issues with people attacking healthcare workers (not to mention the even worse measles outbreak in the same area), and people in Pakistan have serious trust issues after the CIA used vaccination drives as cover for finding Bin Laden.

It's true that you probably won't die from measles in the US (about 1 in 1000 if I remember correctly), but you can end up with impaired hearing, brain damage (and ironically enough autism, if the "brain inflammation can trigger autism" theory that agentorangecooper was pushing upthread is correct) and a wrecked immune system. Then there's all the people with children too young to get the vaccine and cancer patients and others with compromised immune systems who depend on everyone else being decent people and vaccinating to survive.


...ironically enough autism...


Perhaps a more complicated relationship is staring us in the face?


Autism isn't caused by a single factor, but a whole host of different things, including genes and environmental factors, and, ironically (again), rubella, which is part of the MMR vaccine. What has been pretty conclusively proven is that it's not vaccines. There was a ton of research done after Wakefield, and they all came to the same conclusion.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby stickdog99 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:07 pm

DrEvil » 07 Dec 2019 13:33 wrote:
Harvey » Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:09 am wrote:
DrEvil » Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:20 pm wrote:^^The US has pretty decent vaccination rates overall (almost as good as all the immigrants from South and Central America), but the anti-vaxxers keep targeting various smaller, isolated communities (religious in New York, Somali in Minnesota etc.), so there are small pockets dotted around the map where diseases can gain a foothold and start spreading, and that's exactly why people keep harping on about herd immunity, because as soon as enough people are vaccinated the diseases can't get a foothold to begin with. That's how we eradicated smallpox, and that's what would have happened to measles too if fucking Wakefield hadn't shown up with his fraudulent horseshit.

Samoa had a vaccination rate of over 90% not many years ago, and then for various reasons, one of them being anti-vaxxers, another being two nurses fucking up and accidentally mixing the vaccine with expired muscle relaxant and killing two kids (which of course the anti-vaxxers immediately jumped on as proof that vaccines are dangerous), the vaccination rate dropped to around 30-35%, and voila! instant measles epidemic. Now the entire country is on lockdown and children are dying left and right.

As for autism, after Wakefield there was a ton of studies, and all of them concluded that vaccines don't cause autism, but because so many people were freaking out they decided to remove thimerosal from the vaccines anyway because it was easier than dealing with the hysterical people, and autism rates didn't change.

Internationally the worst areas are war zones, places with poor healthcare and education and places targeted by anti-vaxxers and the occasional Russian psyop. Ukraine for instance has it bad.

The ebola outbreak is having serious issues with people attacking healthcare workers (not to mention the even worse measles outbreak in the same area), and people in Pakistan have serious trust issues after the CIA used vaccination drives as cover for finding Bin Laden.

It's true that you probably won't die from measles in the US (about 1 in 1000 if I remember correctly), but you can end up with impaired hearing, brain damage (and ironically enough autism, if the "brain inflammation can trigger autism" theory that agentorangecooper was pushing upthread is correct) and a wrecked immune system. Then there's all the people with children too young to get the vaccine and cancer patients and others with compromised immune systems who depend on everyone else being decent people and vaccinating to survive.


...ironically enough autism...


Perhaps a more complicated relationship is staring us in the face?


Autism isn't caused by a single factor, but a whole host of different things, including genes and environmental factors, and, ironically (again), rubella, which is part of the MMR vaccine. What has been pretty conclusively proven is that it's not vaccines. There was a ton of research done after Wakefield, and they all came to the same conclusion.


"And yes. I know you didn't administer the injection, but you constantly, unremmitingly faciliate the nightmare because it doesn't affect you and everyone else is stupid that doesn't agree with you and you know best."

You even know exactly what does and does not cause autism. Right? So what are the whole host of things that cause autism? What can and should we do about all these factors? Please let all of us know.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby stickdog99 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:32 pm

DrEvil » 06 Dec 2019 14:12 wrote:I love how every time I bring up how many people actually die every fucking year from measles the usual suspects come crawling out of the woodwork to completely ignore it and waffle on about something else. Does this not compute for you people?


I got measles as kid. So did my brothers. So did our parents. None of us died. In fact, it wasn't that terrible of an experience. I personally don't know anyone who has ever died of the measles. Do you?

As far as I can tell, exactly one American has "died of the measles" since 2003: https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... une-system

But she was fully vaccinated against the measles! So did she actually die of the measles or because her immune system was suppressed by medication to control the autoimmune disorder dermatomyositis? And how did she develop the autoimmune disorder dermatomyositis in the first place?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24001753

Several viruses and vaccines are among the environmental factors implicated as triggers of autoimmune inflammatory myopathies. Case histories report on the onset of dermatomyositis/polymyositis after immunization with various vaccines of patients with probable genetic predisposition.

https://www.mctlaw.com/vaccine-injury/j ... omyositis/
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby stickdog99 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:39 pm

DrEvil » 07 Dec 2019 13:05 wrote:
Sounder » Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:41 pm wrote:
Do individuals or do individuals not have a right to decide what chemicals are injected into their bodies? Seriously. Do you believe in the principle of individual informed consent or do you believe in the forced coercion of corporate consensus?


Thanks stickdog, that is a good question (from Sept. 14) for Dr. Evil. I wonder if he might have an answer?


Do you believe in the individual's right to spread contagious diseases to others? Because that's what you're arguing for.

As long as vaccination rates are above the threshold for effective herd immunity they shouldn't. I prefer carrots over sticks, so my preferred method would be:

1) mandatory vaccines to attend school
2) no child tax credits without vaccines
3) free vaccines for everyone

Those are usually enough that the freeloaders like yourself don't fuck it up for everyone else.

Oh, and it's not corporate consensus, it's scientific consensus.


You don't believe in informed consent then. Instead, you clearly believe in the forced coercion of corporate consensus. If the rates were to drop below your preferred level, you would support injecting people with dangerous substances against their will. Wouldn't you?
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby DrEvil » Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:57 pm

stickdog99 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:32 pm wrote:
DrEvil » 06 Dec 2019 14:12 wrote:I love how every time I bring up how many people actually die every fucking year from measles the usual suspects come crawling out of the woodwork to completely ignore it and waffle on about something else. Does this not compute for you people?


I got measles as kid. So did my brothers. So did our parents. None of us died. In fact, it wasn't that terrible of an experience. I personally don't know anyone who has ever died of the measles. Do you?

As far as I can tell, exactly one American has "died of the measles" since 2003: https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... une-system

But she was fully vaccinated against the measles! So did she actually die of the measles or because her immune system was suppressed by medication to control the autoimmune disorder dermatomyositis? And how did she develop the autoimmune disorder dermatomyositis in the first place?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24001753

Several viruses and vaccines are among the environmental factors implicated as triggers of autoimmune inflammatory myopathies. Case histories report on the onset of dermatomyositis/polymyositis after immunization with various vaccines of patients with probable genetic predisposition.

https://www.mctlaw.com/vaccine-injury/j ... omyositis/


Jesus fucking Christ.

142000 people, mostly young children, died from measles last year alone, and your response is "well, I had it and I'm still here so how bad can it be?" Seriously?
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby identity » Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:55 pm

Once again, the usual nonsense from the evil doctor... including the requisite dragging out of the name of that even more evil of doctors (Mengele? No, he was a minor demon compared to the Archfiend himself,) ANDREW WAKEFIELD!

I have a book (title forgotten, and not immediately accessible) here somewhere on one of my computers that goes into great detail on the Wakefield case and the very questionable activity of reporter Brian Deer in manufacturing "the story." For now, this will have to suffice:

https://ahrp.org/how-the-case-against-a ... concocted/

How the case against Andrew Wakefield was concocted

The case against Andrew Wakefield was funded by Murdoch; hatched by Brian Deer; launched in the Sunday Times; magnified by the BMJ

Brian Deer is a freelance reporter who was paid by the Rupert Murdoch’s Sunday Times to “find something big about MMR.” His strategy of attack followed the Murdoch journalistic modus operandi, which a Member of Parliament compared to the Mafia. Deer obtained the names of children in the Lancet article from confidential medical records, and then published the children’s names on the web without parents’ permission.

He was assisted in fabricating “something big about MMR” by MedicoLegal Investigation (MLI), an investigative arm of the Association of British Pharmaceuticals (ABPI), which has led to disciplinary proceedings by the General Medical Council (GMC) against 27 doctors. (Read COTO Report)

Deer began his investigation by the use of deception.
He deceived a mother of an autistic child, using a false identity, and bullied her mercilessly. He hurled defamatory allegations in a series of scurrilous articles which were prominently published by the Sunday Times of London (2004 – 2010). The articles are currently posted on Deer’s website here and here; but not on the Sunday Times website.

Though he denied it, Deer filed the complaint against Wakefield with the GMC. In 2004, nine junior co-authors signed a letter (no doubt, under pressure from the GMC) in which they disavowed the published findings; findings that could be construed as linking the measles, mumps, rubella (MMR) vaccine to autism, although the article never claimed a causal link. Deer’s allegations against Dr. Wakefield include: “data fabrication” “manipulated patients’ data” “changed and misrepresented results of his research” “triggered fears that the MMR triple vaccine.”

Brian Deer’s attack dog reporting tactics and wild allegations were published by The Sunday Times and aired on Chanel 4 News – both part of Rupert Murdoch’s News Corporation tabloids; both have an ignoble record of using underhanded, illegal tactics – including phone hacking, police bribery, exercising improper influence, and gaining access to private medical records – in a quest to destroy reputations. Those tactics led to Parliamentary investigations, convictions, and prison terms. (Wikipedia; COTO Report)

After his stint in the Sunday Times, Deer was commissioned by the BMJ
He was commissioned to write a series of articles not only defaming Dr. Wakefield, but articles aimed at undermining the integrity of the reported medical findings in the Lancet. He raised the specter that neither the GMC nor the Lancet did; which attempted to invalidate the integrity of the children’s medical records upon which Dr. Wakefield’s research rested. The children’s medical records showing a link between chronic enterocolitis (non-specific colitis), neuropsychiatric dysfunction, and pervasive developmental disorder –i.e., autism — were validated, not by Dr. Wakefield, but by Professor John Walker-Smith.

Research investigations into vaccine risks pose a serious threat to powerful political and financial interests who have an enormous stake in vaccines. It appears to us that the defamation campaign against the Lancet article was calculated not only to disqualify Dr. Wakefield, but to delegitimize a research strategy that seeks to identify vaccine safety issues. Such a strategy has the potential of uncovering vaccine risks; thereby undermining the mantra that vaccines are unquestionably safe. The defamation vitriolic campaign against Dr. Wakefield was calculated to dissuade other researchers from examining clinical and scientific evidence about the MMR vaccine.

On January 3-7, 2011, an International Vaccine Safety Conference in Jamaica, focused on vaccine science, safety and public policy concerns. The presenters were prominent senior medical scientists, legal experts in vaccine policy and regulation, and consumer advocates. The conference was attended by scientific journal editors and members of the media. Dr. Wakefield was scheduled to make a presentation RE: “Autism & Vaccines: a Research Strategy Focused on Cause.” (See list of speakers and presentations)

These are genuine scientists who are committed to improving the safety of vaccines by seeking the truth. Their research focuses on identifying biomarkers to screen susceptible individuals whose immune system cannot tolerate the toxic ingredients in vaccines in whom they trigger catastrophic autoimmune diseases – including autism. (CDC chart of Vaccine ingredients, 2010)

Read Dr. Lucijia Tomljenovic’s commentary posted at BMJ about the prominent scientists in the field of autoimmune diseases who attended this conference – including Professor Yehuda Shoenfeld MD, the international authority on autoimmune diseases who is a proponent of vaccination, but recognizes that for a minority of individuals they pose serious autoimmune risks. In an article titled “Vaccines and Autoimmunity” in Nature Review Rheumatology, 2009, Prof. Shoenfeld noted that:

“the rarity and subacute presentation of post-vaccination autoimmune phenomena means that ascertaining causality between these events can be difficult. Moreover, the latency period between vaccination and autoimmunity ranges from days to years.

In this article, on the basis of published evidence and our own experience, we discuss the various aspects of the causal and temporal interactions between vaccines and autoimmune phenomena, as well as the possible mechanisms by which different components of vaccines might induce autoimmunity.”

January 2- 6, 2011: The BMJ re-ignites the vilification of Andrew Wakefield
The BMJ (British Medical Journal) hurled a cluster of malicious accusations in a series of articles by Brian Deer. His allegations reignited his earlier charges in Murdoch’s tabloid, The Sunday Times: “MMR doctor Andrew Wakefield fixed data on autism” (2009). But this time, the BMJ provided the veneer of scientific legitimacy to Deer’s “three-week package” of tabloid-style, pit bull attacks titled: “How the Case Against the MMR Vaccine Was Fixed.” Deer labeled Dr. Wakefield’s research “fraudulent.”

Read a rebuttal by David Lewis, a research microbiologist who directs the Research Misconduct Project of the National Whistleblower Center in Washington, DC. who refutes Deer’s vitriolic attack.

“Documents recovered from Dr. Wakefield’s files during my investigation at the National Whistleblowers Center (NWC) reveal that a pathologist associated with the study, Dr. Andrew Anthony, interpreted a number of the children’s biopsies as evidence of colitis,” explained Dr. Lewis. “Altogether, the evidence contained in Wakefield’s files suggested to me that the BMJ’s fraud theory was more tabloid news than science.” (http://www.researchmisconduct.org

Deer’s libelous articles were accompanied by a defamatory editorial befitting a tabloid, not a scientific journal whose headline screamed: “Wakefield’s Article Linking MMR Vaccine and Autism Was Fraudulent.” The editorial was penned by the Dr. Fiona Godlee, editor in chief of the BMJ, Jane Smith, and Harvey Marcovitch.

Dr. Godlee penned her name (and reputation) on a libelous editorial that accused Dr. Wakefield of scientific “fraud.” The accusation was repeated in the editorial 9 times and she cites Deer as her source 9 times as well. She criticized The Lancet for having retracted the article “for far narrower misconduct” and also lamented the fact that the GMC findings also left “the door open for those who want to continue to believe that the science flawed though it always was, still stands.”

First question that comes to mind:
Was the timing for this unprecedented assaultive attack by the BMJ against Dr. Wakefield a coincidence, or was it calculated to inflict the most damage to his reputation just when he was addressing a prominent scientific audience?

BMJ’s undisclosed financial conflict of interest
The editorial failed to disclose BMJ’s business partnership with Merck’s “educational” off shoots – Univadis / MSD. [Merck is the manufacturer of the MMR vaccine, whose business interests were threatened by research delving into causal vaccine risk triggers.] The editorial also failed to disclose that Harvey Marcovitch (co-signator of the editorial) had close ties with the Association of British Pharmaceutical Industry, and with its investigative arm, MedicoLegal Investigations (MLI). MLI is the outfit that assisted Brian Deer in grossly distorting the facts to destroy a doctor’s reputation. (Read details here; and a complaint sent to the GMC)

When we discovered the partnership between the BMJ and Merck’s “educational” off shoot, Univadis / MSDn, following the publication of the slanderous series of attacks in January, 2011, I challenged Dr. Godlee about her failure to disclose BMJ’s significant financial conflict of interest that is of particular relevance to the MMR controversy, she responded: “We didn’t declare these competing interests because it didn’t occur to us to do so.” (Read MSD Signs Partnership With BMJ Group; BMJ & Lancet Wedded to Merck CME Partnership & Dr. Godlee /BMJ response)

How very disheartening that the medical journal that presents itself as being at the forefront of championing the integrity of medical and health care research by calling for transparency, should have failed to disclose its own business partnerships with corporations that clearly had a stake in the MMR controversy.

That clarion call by the BMJ editor in chief, to “close the door” on further research
The editorial’s opening sentence declared: “Clear evidence of falsification of data should now close the door on this damaging vaccine scare.” And the final sentence repeats that call to arms. “We hope that declaring the paper a fraud will close that door for good.”

BMJ’s clarion call for an end to research that seeks to identify the causal contributors to a catastrophic autism epidemic is the very antithesis of science. That it was made by the editor in chief of a major medical science journal – at the beginning and at the end of the editorial—betrays the journal editor’s true allegiance – neither to scientific integrity, nor to improving the health of individuals or public health – the editorial served BMJ’s commercial partnership interests.

The accusatory title of Godlee’s editorial, charging Wakefield with “fraud,” and the clarion call to “close the door” on further research seeking causes of vaccine injuries, was broadcast by every news outlet in the U.S. and UK; it was timed to coincide with the International Vaccine Safety Conference. the editorial was crafted to legitimize the fraudulent claims made by the CDC and the vaccine lobbyists who have claimed ownership of vaccine research and concealed unwanted research findings, while refusing to design studies that would lead to the discovery of autism causes. (Read CDC Forced to Release Documents Showing Vaccine Thimerosal Causes Autism, May, 2016; )

Richard Deth, Professor of Pharmacology at Northeastern University, whose research interests are focused on the role of oxidative stress and impaired methylation reactions in neurodevelopmental, neuropsychiatric and neurodegenerative disorders, attended the Jamaica conference. He responded to a reporter’s questions about the BMJ editorial and articles and the controversy engulfing Dr. Wakefield. In conclusion, he made the following statement:

“Wakefield’s identification of gastrointestinal inflammation in autism will remain an important scientific contribution. The magnitude of
the effort to discredit him betrays a strong fear that his suggestion of a link to vaccination may be correct. It amounts to a public pillorying that frightens others from investigating this controversial but important issue.”

“The magnitude of the effort to discredit [Andrew Wakefield] him betrays a strong fear that his suggestion of a link to vaccination may be correct. It amounts to a public pillorying that frightens others from investigating this controversial but important
issue.” (Read Chilling Impact on Vaccine-Autism Research)

Despite a lack of evidence to back up the charge of fraud, the BMJ launched into phase two of its relentless crusade by widening its targets by charging “institutional research misconduct.” Dr. Godlee called for a parliamentary investigation of all 13 co-authors of the Lancet article and the Royal Free Hospital. On November 9, 2011, a bellicose press release issued by the BMJ is a declaration of war by the editor in chief who declared “this is not a call to debate.” She resorted to the infamous technique used by Senator Joe McCarthy – the weapons of slander and intimidation.

In a letter addressed to the chair of the House of Commons committee on science and technology, Dr. Godlee demanded a parliamentary inquiry of Dr. Wakefield and all of his co-authors at the Royal Free medical school stating:

“Institutional misconduct is too important to be left to the institutions themselves…This is not a call to debate whether MMR causes autism,” says Godlee. “Science has asked that question and answered it. We need to know what happened in this inglorious chapter in medicine. Who did what, and why?” (MMR Fraud Needs Parliamentary Inquiry, Says BMJ, as New Information Puts Spotlight on Wakefield’s Co-Authors, Nov. 9, 2011)

On the same day, November 9, 2011, Nature reported that the BMJ had asked Dr. Ingvar Bjarnason, a gastroenterologist at King’s College Hospital to review the medical charts of the Lancet children, to confirm that fraud was committed. Dr. Bjarnason rejected Dr. Godlee’s claim, stating that the documents “don’t clearly support charges that Wakefield deliberately misinterpreted records. The data are subjective. It’s different to say it’s deliberate falsification.”

Nature further reported that Deer demurred, claiming that he

“never accused Wakefield of fraud over his interpretation of pathology records…Fiona Godlee, the editor of the BMJ, says that the journal’s conclusion of fraud was not based on the pathology but on a number of discrepancies between the children’s records and the claims in the Lancet paper.”

John Stone of Age of Autism reported that in November, 2011, Brian Deer, who has never disclosed his pharmaceutical sponsorships, was enjoying celebrity status at a pharmaceutical conference on the banks of Lake Annecy in the French Alps while dispatching his missives “More Secrets of the MMR Scare” to the BMJ.

The conference was sponsored by the Fondation Mérieux – its “partners” include all three MMR manufacturers that were defendants in the UK litigation (GlaxoSmithKline, Merck and Sanofi), as well as the CDC Foundation, the Bill and Melinda Foundation, the World Bank, Islamic Development Bank. Deer was a keynote speaker, his topic, “Money, media and retrospection. What drove the MMR crisis, and what lessons should we learn for the future?” Deer was also listed as chair of two additional sessions of the conference.


(Evil doc will, of course, continue to support Deer, and to indulge in rants re: Wakefield, no matter how many testimonies are presented...).

More on the vaccine subject later, gotta run...
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby stickdog99 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:04 pm

DrEvil » 07 Dec 2019 22:57 wrote:
stickdog99 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:32 pm wrote:
DrEvil » 06 Dec 2019 14:12 wrote:I love how every time I bring up how many people actually die every fucking year from measles the usual suspects come crawling out of the woodwork to completely ignore it and waffle on about something else. Does this not compute for you people?


I got measles as kid. So did my brothers. So did our parents. None of us died. In fact, it wasn't that terrible of an experience. I personally don't know anyone who has ever died of the measles. Do you?

As far as I can tell, exactly one American has "died of the measles" since 2003: https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... une-system

But she was fully vaccinated against the measles! So did she actually die of the measles or because her immune system was suppressed by medication to control the autoimmune disorder dermatomyositis? And how did she develop the autoimmune disorder dermatomyositis in the first place?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24001753

Several viruses and vaccines are among the environmental factors implicated as triggers of autoimmune inflammatory myopathies. Case histories report on the onset of dermatomyositis/polymyositis after immunization with various vaccines of patients with probable genetic predisposition.

https://www.mctlaw.com/vaccine-injury/j ... omyositis/


Jesus fucking Christ.

142000 people, mostly young children, died from measles last year alone, and your response is "well, I had it and I'm still here so how bad can it be?" Seriously?


"Well, I had some of them, and I'm still here, so how bad can they be?" is often offered as proof of all vaccines' safety for everyone.

I have nothing against measles vaccination in countries where thousands of children are dying of the measles. I think that vaccination of at least some diseases clearly improves health outcomes in herds of domesticated animals and wherever on Earth people are maltreated as if they were part of a herd of domesticated animals.

However, healthy and nourished children do not die of the measles very often. I doubt that any one of us here can name a single example of this from anyone we know or anyone they know, even though we almost all know somebody who got measles. So it's bizarre to me to watch the "anti-vaxx super-villain" recriminations and hysteria caused by a single case of a disease that once concerned Americans of my generation about as much as influenza. And there are millions of forced vaccinations zealots like you who would just as soon lock me up and throw away the key simply for expressing my reasoned, extremely moderate, primarily pro-safety views about the vaccine industry.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby DrEvil » Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:52 pm

^^That scenario would only work if we quarantined the US and prevented Americans from ever going anywhere they might start an outbreak. We managed to wipe out smallpox with the help of vaccines, and we could do the same to measles, with the result that we could stop with the vaccine altogether. No measles and no measles vaccine. Win-win.

Also, the reason people aren't dying from measles in the US is because of the vaccine. If you stop vaccinating people then a lot of people are going to get sick and a few hundred are going to die every year for no good reason.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Cordelia » Sun Dec 08, 2019 4:35 pm

DrEvil » Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:05 am wrote:

...I prefer carrots over sticks, so my preferred method would be:

1) mandatory vaccines to attend school
2) no child tax credits without vaccines
3) free vaccines for everyone

Those are usually enough that the freeloaders like yourself don't fuck it up for everyone else.



Oh, ffs.


Refundable Tax Credits Are Critical To Reducing Poverty and Hunger For Women, Children, and Families and Should Be Expanded

https://frac.org/wp-content/uploads/lea ... overty.pdf


^^^
Refundable tax credits help children thrive and succeed.

Research has found that lifting low-income families’ incomes when children are young not only has improved the children’s immediate well-being, but has been associated with better health and education during childhood and adulthood, and more hours worked and higher earnings in adulthood.6 Research suggests that very young children benefit the most from increased family incomes.



You vill comply, othervise ve’ll punish you and your children!

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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby DrEvil » Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:24 pm

^^So just get the damn vaccine. Being part of a society means you sometimes have to follow the rules everyone agreed on (omgfascism!). If the only person hurt by not vaccinating was yourself I wouldn't give a damn about it, but it's not. It's the same reason drunk driving is illegal: your right to do what you please stops when your actions hurt others.

Why are you people so hellbent on going around spreading disease?

And again, except for Stickdog, all of you have completely ignored the fact that measles kills thousands and thousands of children every year. Are you okay with that?

Seriously, I would really like to hear from Sounder, Identity, yourself, Coffin_dodger and Agentorangecooper what, if anything, you think we should do about it.
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby identity » Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:51 pm

https://ahrp.org/why-are-legislatures-i ... dates-now/

"... People are DYING! Entire Human Populations are at risk of COLLAPSING!" LOL

Is New Brunswick undergoing a crisis of vaccine-preventable disease?

The answer is no. And if there was a crisis, Bill 39 would not wait to go into effect until 2021.

Measles. As of August 3, Canada had 84 cases of measles in 2019, and no measles deaths since 2014. Surprisingly, given the media hoopla over measles, only three Americans have died from measles in the last 20 years. The last US child death occurred in 2003, in a 14 year old after a bone marrow transplant.

In a 2011 measles epidemic in Quebec, where over 95% of the population was vaccinated, 50% of those developing measles had received 2 doses of measles vaccine. After the Disneyland measles epidemic, it was found that 73 cases of measles (38% of those typed by CDC) were due to viruses from the measles vaccine.

Pertussis. Canada averages one death from whooping cough per year. There are many cases, most going undiagnosed and unreported. Some estimate a million US cases of whooping cough yearly. This is because vaccine protection wanes rapidly. More than 80% of whooping cough cases occurred in fully vaccinated children in a recent study.

Diphtheria. There is one case of diphtheria every two years in the US.

Mumps. Canada reported 180 mumps cases yearly from 2011-2013. Mumps outbreaks are a result of waning of vaccine-induced immunity. “Data from outbreak studies showed that the odds of developing mumps increased by 10 to 27% with each year post-vaccination.”

Rubella. All recent US rubella cases were all infected in other countries.

Polio. There is no polio in Canada. The last wild (natural) polio case in Canada occurred in 1977. There have been 3 reported cases in the US since 2005, all from vaccine strains of polio. Worldwide, there are more new polio cases due to vaccine strains that became virulent than there are due to wild polio viruses. Last year, vaccine-derived viruses paralyzed 105 children worldwide; the wild virus just 33.

Vaccines containing live viruses, such as the MMR, Varicella, and oral polio can infect, harm and very rarely kill the recipient, especially if the child has an unknown immune deficiency. There are extensive warnings on the MMR vaccine information sheet which I have provided you, about who should not receive the vaccine.
Although it is not usually acknowledged, vaccination is not a one-size-fits-all procedure.
According to the Mayo Clinic, “Human antibody response to measles vaccine is highly variable in the population.” Females have more adverse reactions than males. Gender and race influence the response. As does heredity.

Families that have experienced a serious vaccine reaction are right to be concerned about additional vaccinations and the safety of sibling vaccination, for their family is probably at higher than average risk of a reaction. What goes unreported is that many unvaccinated children are themselves a vulnerable group, and should not be vaccinated. However, there are no existing standards for doctors to use to determine the risk of vaccination to most children. So medical exemptions must be improvised, and are generally hard to come by.

Herd Immunity is undermined by high rates of vaccine failures

The Quebec measles epidemic I mentioned demonstrates that even a vaccination rate over 95% didn’t prevent a large measles outbreak. Herd immunity rates are based on statistical modelling, and are only projections. The reason that 50% of measles cases occurred in vaccinated children is primary or secondary vaccine failure. Primary vaccine failure means the vaccine never produced immunity, while secondary failure means the immunity was lost over time.

For most vaccines, primary and secondary failures go unnoticed, because children are not being exposed to most of these infections. The infections children do get exposed to are pertussis and influenza, and then vaccine failure is obvious–because most cases of pertussis and many of influenza occur in fully vaccinated children.

Do unvaccinated children put immunocompromised children at risk?

The fact is that immunocompromised children are not dying from vaccine preventable diseases, and few are getting them, with the exceptions of influenza, pertussis and varicella–because vaccines for these 3 infections provide limited immunity.

Fewer than one American dies yearly from measles, mumps, rubella, polio, or diphtheria. On average, one Canadian dies from whooping cough (pertussis). Ten Canadian children die from influenza. One American child dies yearly from varicella (chickenpox).

You are looking at 11 child deaths per year in Canada. Would vaccinating every child fully against whooping cough, varicella and influenza prevent these deaths? Remember, most whooping cough and varicella patients are fully vaccinated. And while the immunity generated in young children from flu shots varies yearly, it is usually less than 50%.

Herd immunity cannot be achieved for whooping cough or influenza because neither vaccine is adequate. Pertussis vaccine immunity wanes so quickly that little protection is left after 3-4 years. Transmission to others can occur before you realize you have influenza or pertussis.
Even if 100% of Canadians were vaccinated, these diseases would continue to circulate within the vaccinated and the unvaccinated population.

Varicella cannot be eradicated both because the vaccine is not optimal (85% efficacy), waning occurs, and because the virus stays in your body permanently after vaccination or infection. Most immunocompromised children who develop varicella infections do so from virus already resident in their bodies.

The claim that vaccine exemptions put immunocompromised children at risk was invented by PR firms, with no evidence behind it.

In fact, immunocompromised children are at greater risk from the shedding of live viruses in vaccines by other children who were recently vaccinated.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby identity » Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:08 pm

"... People are DYING! Entire Human Populations are at risk of COLLAPSING!" LOL

More from Meryl Nass, MD:

https://www.bmj.com/content/364/bmj.l312/rr-0

Rapid Response:
Re: Measles: two US outbreaks are blamed on low vaccination rates. Another perspective

Please allow me to make a few corrections and add context to Ms. Tanne's article. Endemic measles has been eradicated from the US and the whole of the western hemisphere, per the WHO.(1) It does not continually recirculate. But cases are brought into the US, or rarely occur as a clinical response to measles vaccination, (2) multiple times each year. (3) The US averages about 250 reported cases annually.

There have been only 3 deaths from measles in the US since 2000: one in a 75 year old male who was exposed in Israel; one in a 13 year old immunosuppressed male who had received a bone marrow transplant 3 months premortem, who lacked any identified exposure to a measles case; and one in an immunosuppressed woman with multiple comorbidities. Whether any of these deaths was caused by a vaccine strain is unknown, but since vaccine strain measles can be virulent in an immunocompromised host, it is possible. (2)

There are approximately 2500 mumps cases yearly in the US, but no recent mumps-related deaths.(4) There are approximately 10 rubella cases yearly in the US, but since 2012, all rubella cases were infected outside the US. (5)

Thus, there is no evidence that in recent years unvaccinated US children have caused a single death from measles, mumps and rubella. Yet how many column inches, how many hours of TV news have been devoted to scaring the American public about the dire threat of measles? Fear of measles has been the major driver of the campaigns to eliminate vaccine exemptions. Parents of immunocompromised children have been incited to frenzy about the risks posed to their children by unvaccinated classmates. Yet, when you look closely, the risk is marginal to none.

Even when all eligible children are vaccinated, there will remain those who cannot be vaccinated with live vaccines, and those who fail to achieve immunity from their immunizations. Even after 2 doses, the mumps vaccine is only 86% efficacious. (6) Measles vaccine is 85-95% efficacious after one dose, (7) and 90-98% after two.(8) In US and Canadian measles outbreaks, up to 50% of those developing measles have received two doses of MMR. (8) Thus, there will continue to be disease outbreaks, with or without ending the practice of vaccine exemptions.

During the past 30 years, approximately 89,000 adverse reactions, including about 450 deaths, have been reported to the US Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System for measles vaccines.

Ms Tanne seems to be singing with a Pharma-led chorus this week, orchestrated with the WHO, BMJ, NY Times and other media outlets. Simultaneously, similar bills have been introduced this month in US state legislatures to end all vaccine exemptions.

But consider: if vaccine exemptions are withheld from children whose families perceive them to be at high risk of an adverse reaction from the MMR, we are likely to experience an inversion in public health: fewer overall viral infections, but more vaccine reactions (and child deaths) then we have now. Public health won't prevail, but Pharma profits will.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby identity » Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:43 pm

From Vaccines: A Reappraisal
by Richard Moskowitz, MD, 2017

Vaccines A Reappraisal 01.png

Vaccines A Reappraisal 02.png

Vaccines A Reappraisal 03.png
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby identity » Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:45 pm

(cont'd)

Vaccines A Reappraisal 04.png
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