Vaccine - Autism link

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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby stickdog99 » Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:47 pm

DrEvil » 31 Jan 2020 20:55 wrote:
chump » Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:31 am wrote:
Democracy cannot survive overpopulation.
Human dignity cannot survive it.
Convenience and dignity cannot survive it.
As you put more and more people in the world,
the value of life not only declines, it disappears.
It doesn’t matter if someone dies.
The more people there are, the less one individual matters.
- Isaac Asimov



Isaac Asimov on Influenza:

Influenza? Nice disease.

There was a terrible epidemic in the time of Marcus Aurelius, at which time the Roman Empire was at it’s height. And the Roman Empire was never the same again, so many were killed and so much destruction was done to adjust the human spirit as a result. But, nobody knows exactly what the epidemic was of… Maybe it was a Smallpox epidemic, but nobody knows for sure.


Maybe try not being so dishonest and selective in your quotes. That's the kind of shit anti-vaxxers pull.

Right after he says "Nice disease", which is clearly a joke, he says "it's a dreadful disease, actually".

As for the overpopulation quote, he's not wrong. More people on a planet with limited resources will inevitably lead to conflict, and war and democracy don't play nice with each other. Just look at what the Syrian civil war did to European politics.


Have you ever heard of Demographic Transition Theory? Perhaps like you, I went my whole life thinking that exponential population growth was inevitable and would lead to the inevitable destruction of our planet if societies did not immediately go to extraordinary means to prevent it. But, it turns out that the data shows that all you have do to limit population growth is to confer onto people the "benefits" of industrialization.

There is plenty of room, and we have plenty of resources for everyone alive on the planet today. Looking at the data objectively leads anyone (who is not an elitist) to conclude that overpopulation is not our biggest problem. Hmmmmm. To whose benefit have we all been conditioned to think it is?
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby DrEvil » Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:20 pm

stickdog99 » Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:47 pm wrote:
DrEvil » 31 Jan 2020 20:55 wrote:
chump » Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:31 am wrote:
Democracy cannot survive overpopulation.
Human dignity cannot survive it.
Convenience and dignity cannot survive it.
As you put more and more people in the world,
the value of life not only declines, it disappears.
It doesn’t matter if someone dies.
The more people there are, the less one individual matters.
- Isaac Asimov



Isaac Asimov on Influenza:

Influenza? Nice disease.

There was a terrible epidemic in the time of Marcus Aurelius, at which time the Roman Empire was at it’s height. And the Roman Empire was never the same again, so many were killed and so much destruction was done to adjust the human spirit as a result. But, nobody knows exactly what the epidemic was of… Maybe it was a Smallpox epidemic, but nobody knows for sure.


Maybe try not being so dishonest and selective in your quotes. That's the kind of shit anti-vaxxers pull.

Right after he says "Nice disease", which is clearly a joke, he says "it's a dreadful disease, actually".

As for the overpopulation quote, he's not wrong. More people on a planet with limited resources will inevitably lead to conflict, and war and democracy don't play nice with each other. Just look at what the Syrian civil war did to European politics.


Have you ever heard of Demographic Transition Theory? Perhaps like you, I went my whole life thinking that exponential population growth was inevitable and would lead to the inevitable destruction of our planet if societies did not immediately go to extraordinary means to prevent it. But, it turns out that the data shows that all you have do to limit population growth is to confer onto people the "benefits" of industrialization.

There is plenty of room, and we have plenty of resources for everyone alive on the planet today. Looking at the data objectively leads anyone (who is not an elitist) to conclude that overpopulation is not our biggest problem. Hmmmmm. To whose benefit have we all been conditioned to think it is?


I wasn't aware of the specific name, but that's what I've been preaching all along. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at standard of living vs. birth rates and figure it out.

Unfortunately there's research looking at the possibility of getting everyone up to a high, western-style standard of living. The short answer is no. Everyone can have their basic needs met, but that's about it.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41893-018-0021-4
(the full article is available on libgen)
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby stickdog99 » Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:39 pm

DrEvil » 13 Apr 2020 22:20 wrote:
stickdog99 » Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:47 pm wrote:
DrEvil » 31 Jan 2020 20:55 wrote:
chump » Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:31 am wrote:
Democracy cannot survive overpopulation.
Human dignity cannot survive it.
Convenience and dignity cannot survive it.
As you put more and more people in the world,
the value of life not only declines, it disappears.
It doesn’t matter if someone dies.
The more people there are, the less one individual matters.
- Isaac Asimov



Isaac Asimov on Influenza:

Influenza? Nice disease.

There was a terrible epidemic in the time of Marcus Aurelius, at which time the Roman Empire was at it’s height. And the Roman Empire was never the same again, so many were killed and so much destruction was done to adjust the human spirit as a result. But, nobody knows exactly what the epidemic was of… Maybe it was a Smallpox epidemic, but nobody knows for sure.


Maybe try not being so dishonest and selective in your quotes. That's the kind of shit anti-vaxxers pull.

Right after he says "Nice disease", which is clearly a joke, he says "it's a dreadful disease, actually".

As for the overpopulation quote, he's not wrong. More people on a planet with limited resources will inevitably lead to conflict, and war and democracy don't play nice with each other. Just look at what the Syrian civil war did to European politics.


Have you ever heard of Demographic Transition Theory? Perhaps like you, I went my whole life thinking that exponential population growth was inevitable and would lead to the inevitable destruction of our planet if societies did not immediately go to extraordinary means to prevent it. But, it turns out that the data shows that all you have do to limit population growth is to confer onto people the "benefits" of industrialization.

There is plenty of room, and we have plenty of resources for everyone alive on the planet today. Looking at the data objectively leads anyone (who is not an elitist) to conclude that overpopulation is not our biggest problem. Hmmmmm. To whose benefit have we all been conditioned to think it is?


I wasn't aware of the specific name, but that's what I've been preaching all along. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at standard of living vs. birth rates and figure it out.

Unfortunately there's research looking at the possibility of getting everyone up to a high, western-style standard of living. The short answer is no. Everyone can have their basic needs met, but that's about it.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41893-018-0021-4
(the full article is available on libgen)


But, of course, automation and technological advancement can never be directed to provide any resources for our current population levels. Right?

In any case, who among us despises the idea of having just enough so that everyone can have their basic needs met the most? That's the yacht charters' worst dystopian nightmare! Welcome, Thanos!
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby JackRiddler » Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:28 pm

First, it is not "standard of living" at "Western" levels that causes a transition to stable population. That's far too general. It's about health conditions in general (people don't fear premature death for themselves or high mortality for their children) and the education and relative empowerment of women. Where women can read, have equal rights to make their own life choices, and make their own decisions about whether and when to have children, population stabilizes.

Second, "standard of living" at "Western" levels, meaning the consumption (and also waste) of energy and resources and the production of pollution involved in the "Western" lifestyle, highlights the real population problem. It is the population of people who live that lifestyle, especially the richer ones among them. Per capita consumption of Americans is 30 to 100 times that of countries in Africa. We can grant that a lot of that difference comes in wasteful and unnecessary activity (such as the quasi requirement that almost everyone needs a car for commuting to work or even for shopping for food, or that almost every meal must be centered on meat) or is disproportionately concentrated among the folk who eat for all.

Are we really having this conversation here?
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby stickdog99 » Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:58 am

JackRiddler » 14 Apr 2020 03:28 wrote:First, it is not "standard of living" at "Western" levels that causes a transition to stable population. That's far too general. It's about health conditions in general (people don't fear premature death for themselves or high mortality for their children) and the education and relative empowerment of women. Where women can read, have equal rights to make their own life choices, and make their own decisions about whether and when to have children, population stabilizes.

Second, "standard of living" at "Western" levels, meaning the consumption (and also waste) of energy and resources and the production of pollution involved in the "Western" lifestyle, highlights the real population problem. It is the population of people who live that lifestyle, especially the richer ones among them. Per capita consumption of Americans is 30 to 100 times that of countries in Africa. We can grant that a lot of that difference comes in wasteful and unnecessary activity (such as the quasi requirement that almost everyone needs a car for commuting to work or even for shopping for food, or that almost every meal must be centered on meat) or is disproportionately concentrated among the folk who eat for all.

Are we really having this conversation here?


The conversation (at least on my side) was more about whether (African) overpopulation is actually the scourge of the Earth, as St. William of DOS (and so many other billionaire "philanthropists") would have us believe.

I am surprised how powerfully pervasive this myth is, even among my college students. So many of us have been conditioned almost since birth to fervently believe that human problems are inherently intractable and completely insurmountable due to the single cause of overpopulation.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby DrEvil » Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:43 am

JackRiddler » Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:28 am wrote:First, it is not "standard of living" at "Western" levels that causes a transition to stable population. That's far too general. It's about health conditions in general (people don't fear premature death for themselves or high mortality for their children) and the education and relative empowerment of women. Where women can read, have equal rights to make their own life choices, and make their own decisions about whether and when to have children, population stabilizes.

Second, "standard of living" at "Western" levels, meaning the consumption (and also waste) of energy and resources and the production of pollution involved in the "Western" lifestyle, highlights the real population problem. It is the population of people who live that lifestyle, especially the richer ones among them. Per capita consumption of Americans is 30 to 100 times that of countries in Africa. We can grant that a lot of that difference comes in wasteful and unnecessary activity (such as the quasi requirement that almost everyone needs a car for commuting to work or even for shopping for food, or that almost every meal must be centered on meat) or is disproportionately concentrated among the folk who eat for all.

Are we really having this conversation here?


You're right, the key is healthcare and education. What I want is the highest possible sustainable standard of living for everyone, starting with good healthcare and education, which should be free for everyone.

stickdog wrote:
But, of course, automation and technological advancement can never be directed to provide any resources for our current population levels. Right?


Of course it can. Things are slowly moving in the right direction, but way too much of that advancement is geared towards unnecessary fluff. Do we really need a new iPhone model every year?

In any case, who among us despises the idea of having just enough so that everyone can have their basic needs met the most? That's the yacht charters' worst dystopian nightmare! Welcome, Thanos!


Too many.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby identity » Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:41 pm

Not sure if this has been posted upthread; in any case, never hurts to be reminded of the uncensored truth.

The original Merck MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) combo vaccine product insert listing all
the known side effects (adverse reactions) of the vaccine:

Merck .png
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby thrulookingglass » Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:04 pm

"Democracy cannot survive overpopulation"

People actually have to participate in their government for democracies to exist so that is utter bullshit. Accrual of power from the many to the few is a sure path towards depravity.

Dispensing with "overpopulation" is great, so long as you are not the one consider to be part of that "overpopulation." Who wants to decide who stays and who goes? And what justice will you dispense in that manner? There is no "overpopulation" of the world, but an extremely grotesque abuse of resources. This is what happens when your labors are for currency and not for advancement of the species.

The doctors we are depending upon to dispense CARE take a Hippocratic oath to "do no harm." It might serve us, one and all, to uphold that oath.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby identity » Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:16 am

Dr. Andy Kaufman: Vaccines vs Reality

"It's not a coincidence that they use the word 'herd'."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mv8hf0dn2Qc
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