Red Ice Creations

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Red Ice Creations

Postby American Dream » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:22 am

Agreed.
American Dream
 
Posts: 19946
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Red Ice Creations

Postby jakell » Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:41 am

Jerky » Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:16 am wrote:Oh, sure, AD. I wouldn't argue that point.

I kind of tend to include Islamophobia as a form of racism, and separate out anti-Semitism as a "special case", particularly in reference to the world of conspiracy theorizing, where anti-Semitism inarguably looms so much larger than all the other anti-ism's, in sheer volume, if nothing else.


What's missing here is a reason why this separating out and categorisation would be done. Because otherwise it just seems like simply shuffling the pieces to me.
i
Particularly in reference to racism, I ask why is lots of other stuff is now stuffed under that category, stuff that has nothing to do with race. It just makes an unwieldy subject that does nothing more that pleasing those who like to juggle words, it also makes the issue much harder to combat.

One thing is for sure, the proponents of these views know what they mean by race and racism, they are crystal clear and this is why they are able to speak clearly and produce compelling arguments, the sort that 82_28 seemed surprised at for some reason.

82_28 » Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:49 pm wrote:[quote="[url=http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?p=563047#p563047]

OH MY FUCKING GOD! That shit made my nostrils flare in fact. They're still flaring. I really don't know what to say other then it seems like they're taking the liberal position in DELIVERY! Some clear eyed person could just read that fucking shit and go, OK, I see now. It makes me sick to my fucking stomach. These nazis need to be taken to task every step of the way.

That's the thing. They're getting more astute in the DELIVERY. God damn fuck. Really? Now we have this to deal with? Of course we can run circles around them as far as their cultic hatreds, but they would never read our words nor hear our voices. I think we're beyond gone.

I was sitting next to an older black man on the bus yesterday he had a little baby girl on his lap and we got to talking about not seeing "race". Vice versa. Some joker came to him and asked him if he was some sorta something or another and he said no, he was Muslim. I just laughed because it was totally stupid and made eye contact and asked "what the fuck was that about?". He asked what "race" I was and I just said, "yours". Blah blah blah. I finally relented and said I am "german/scottish" -- which I guess is right. But I don't fucking know. . .


Could the Rip Van Winkles be waking up, or just turning over for a few more decades of sleep? If it's the latter I won't be at all surprised (the use of the word 'nazis' is sort of a sign, a call to wake up and join the march of zombies)
" Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism"
User avatar
jakell
 
Posts: 1821
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 4:58 pm
Location: North England
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Red Ice Creations

Postby Searcher08 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:13 am

@jakell
Particularly in reference to racism, I ask why is lots of other stuff is now stuffed under that category, stuff that has nothing to do with race. It just makes an unwieldy subject that does nothing more that pleasing those who like to juggle words, it also makes the issue much harder to combat.


What, specifically, are you saying is "stuffed in that category that has nothing to do with race"?

@Jerky
What is your evidence base for your assertion that anti-Semitism is much more prevalent than Islamophobia? Have you seen the movie "Defamation" about the ADL? Thoughts?
User avatar
Searcher08
 
Posts: 5887
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:21 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Red Ice Creations

Postby jakell » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:12 am

Searcher08 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:13 pm wrote:@jakell
Particularly in reference to racism, I ask why is lots of other stuff is now stuffed under that category, stuff that has nothing to do with race. It just makes an unwieldy subject that does nothing more that pleasing those who like to juggle words, it also makes the issue much harder to combat.


What, specifically, are you saying is "stuffed in that category that has nothing to do with race"?

@Jerky
What is your evidence base for your assertion that anti-Semitism is much more prevalent than Islamophobia? Have you seen the movie "Defamation" about the ADL? Thoughts?


Because 'race' is a thorny issue, I try not to alter it from how it is generally perceived by regular folks and ignoring the talking heads, ie more or less the same level of recognisence that racists apply, and disregarding the personal spin they put on it.

I see the word racism applied to all sorts of situations where it is unclear, but there is some sort of conflict, eg a conflict** between English folk and Slovaks would be thoughtlessly be labelled as racism, even though they are both European peoples. A conflict** between Nigerians and West Indians might be carelessly labelled racist even though they are all Africans. A conflict** between Middle Eastern Jews and Arabs would be labelled this, even though they are the same race the, list goes on and on and I'm sure you've heard the word misapplied as much as I have. It's becoming another of those useless snarl words (or the 'softer version, a wank-word).

This confusion is hilarious to actual racists who watch their opponents tie themselves up in knots, reineventing words and their uses. Meanwhile, they know exactly want they mean and form their ideas and opinion on a less fuzzy foundation.

** In each of these situations, there nearly always has to be a power gradient (real or perceived) for the word 'racist' to be applied,
" Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism"
User avatar
jakell
 
Posts: 1821
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 4:58 pm
Location: North England
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Red Ice Creations

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:05 pm

Funny. From my experience I tend to believe most don't understand the difference of Racism from Bigotry.

"Islamophobia" is less confusing than "AntiSemitism."
User avatar
Iamwhomiam
 
Posts: 6572
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:47 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Red Ice Creations

Postby semper occultus » Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:32 pm

..confusing times...

French Jews turn to Le Pen after Muslim attacks

Adam Sage Paris
Last updated at 12:01AM, February 24 2015

French Jews are ready to discard decades of distrust of the far right by voting for the National Front as a bulwark against radical Islam.

While at least 14 per cent of France’s Jewish community is expected to back the National Front in presidential elections in 2017, the political leader of France’s Jewish community publicly endorsed Marine Le Pen yesterday, insisting that her political leadership of the far-right party had been beyond reproach.

Roger Cukierman, the chairman of the Representative Council of Jewish Institutions in France, said that while the National Front still carried toxic baggage.....---> contd behind paywall...

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/worl ... 363294.ece
User avatar
semper occultus
 
Posts: 2974
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:01 pm
Location: London,England
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Red Ice Creations

Postby Jerky » Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:35 pm

I think I was pretty clear in my post.

I separate anti-Semitism from plain old racism - in this discussion, particularly - because it is, as I wrote, a "special case" in terms of conspiracy theory and political alternative thought (the very purpose for of this board's existence).

I didn't think I would need to explain why that was to THIS audience, and frankly, I still don't. It should be obvious to anyone with even just a passing, glancing knowledge of the history of alternative political thought that anti-Semitism has played a HUGE role, historically, and still does (though it seems to be getting shuffled aside in favor of more vague "Illuminati" theories in recent years).

For more information on this topic, please consult Wikipedia. Or Google. The information is not hidden at all. It's available.

J

However, if anybody still needs
User avatar
Jerky
 
Posts: 2240
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 6:28 pm
Location: Toronto, ON
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Red Ice Creations

Postby Searcher08 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:51 pm

Jerky » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:35 pm wrote:I think I was pretty clear in my post.

I separate anti-Semitism from plain old racism - in this discussion, particularly - because it is, as I wrote, a "special case" in terms of conspiracy theory and political alternative thought (the very purpose for of this board's existence).

I didn't think I would need to explain why that was to THIS audience, and frankly, I still don't. It should be obvious to anyone with even just a passing, glancing knowledge of the history of alternative political thought that anti-Semitism has played a HUGE role, historically, and still does (though it seems to be getting shuffled aside in favor of more vague "Illuminati" theories in recent years).

For more information on this topic, please consult Wikipedia. Or Google. The information is not hidden at all. It's available.

J

However, if anybody still needs


Sorry, this is a miscommunication here.
I did not mean it in the sense you are pushing back on - yes, obviously there is a huge historical issue at work here and have no issue with you separating it out.
I was questioning whether the occurrence of anti-Semitism incidents is bigger than Islamophobic incidents, ie it's current incidence rather than role in general paraculture.
User avatar
Searcher08
 
Posts: 5887
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:21 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Red Ice Creations

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:50 pm

Not sure if you were referring to me, Jerky. I wrote something similar not long ago on self-appointed minister raging on about ISIS; I suggested it was nice to see an anti-Semite telling us which Semitic peoples to discriminate against.

What I meant, and I apologize for not being clear enough, was that common folk not living in RI land do not understand that Palestinians too, were a Semitic people, just as some will wrongfully accuse those of African American heritage living in the US as being racists.
User avatar
Iamwhomiam
 
Posts: 6572
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:47 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Red Ice Creations

Postby jakell » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:07 pm

Jerky » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:35 pm wrote:I think I was pretty clear in my post.

I separate anti-Semitism from plain old racism - in this discussion, particularly - because it is, as I wrote, a "special case" in terms of conspiracy theory and political alternative thought (the very purpose for of this board's existence).

I didn't think I would need to explain why that was to THIS audience, and frankly, I still don't. It should be obvious to anyone with even just a passing, glancing knowledge of the history of alternative political thought that anti-Semitism has played a HUGE role, historically, and still does (though it seems to be getting shuffled aside in favor of more vague "Illuminati" theories in recent years).

For more information on this topic, please consult Wikipedia. Or Google. The information is not hidden at all. It's available.

J

However, if anybody still needs


What I was getting at is that antisemitism doesn't need to be separated out from racism because it doesn't belong there in the first place; the Jews are not a race. It's one of those conflations that make the word 'racism' increasingly useless (apart from scaring folks that is).
" Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism"
User avatar
jakell
 
Posts: 1821
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 4:58 pm
Location: North England
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Red Ice Creations

Postby Searcher08 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:23 pm

jakell » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:07 am wrote:
Jerky » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:35 pm wrote:I think I was pretty clear in my post.

I separate anti-Semitism from plain old racism - in this discussion, particularly - because it is, as I wrote, a "special case" in terms of conspiracy theory and political alternative thought (the very purpose for of this board's existence).

I didn't think I would need to explain why that was to THIS audience, and frankly, I still don't. It should be obvious to anyone with even just a passing, glancing knowledge of the history of alternative political thought that anti-Semitism has played a HUGE role, historically, and still does (though it seems to be getting shuffled aside in favor of more vague "Illuminati" theories in recent years).

For more information on this topic, please consult Wikipedia. Or Google. The information is not hidden at all. It's available.

J

However, if anybody still needs


What I was getting at is that antisemitism doesn't need to be separated out from racism because it doesn't belong there in the first place; the Jews are not a race. It's one of those conflations that make the word 'racism' increasingly useless (apart from scaring folks that is).


Doesn't this come down to what 'race' is defined as?
And my first thought is that race is now a pretty useless concept.

I don't know if we can say the Jews are not a race; some Jewish people I know consider it a matter of culture, others their religion, some a mixture of some or all.
Some Jewish people I know refer to themselves (with tongue in cheek) as MOT - a member of the tribe.
User avatar
Searcher08
 
Posts: 5887
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:21 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Red Ice Creations

Postby BrandonD » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:29 pm

Searcher08 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:23 pm wrote:Doesn't this come down to what 'race' is defined as?
And my first thought is that race is now a pretty useless concept.

I don't know if we can say the Jews are not a race; some Jewish people I know consider it a matter of culture, others their religion, some a mixture of some or all.
Some Jewish people I know refer to themselves (with tongue in cheek) as MOT - a member of the tribe.


Image

The hand of the illuminati at work?
"One measures a circle, beginning anywhere." -Charles Fort
User avatar
BrandonD
 
Posts: 768
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:05 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Red Ice Creations

Postby Searcher08 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:45 pm

BrandonD » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:29 am wrote:
Searcher08 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:23 pm wrote:Doesn't this come down to what 'race' is defined as?
And my first thought is that race is now a pretty useless concept.

I don't know if we can say the Jews are not a race; some Jewish people I know consider it a matter of culture, others their religion, some a mixture of some or all.
Some Jewish people I know refer to themselves (with tongue in cheek) as MOT - a member of the tribe.


Image

The hand of the illuminati at work?

:clown
A mot is slang in Dublin for a girlfriend. A mott is Geordie slang for.. well see Urban Dictionary...
User avatar
Searcher08
 
Posts: 5887
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:21 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Red Ice Creations

Postby jakell » Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:57 am

Searcher08 » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:23 am wrote:
jakell » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:07 am wrote:
Jerky » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:35 pm wrote:I think I was pretty clear in my post.

I separate anti-Semitism from plain old racism - in this discussion, particularly - because it is, as I wrote, a "special case" in terms of conspiracy theory and political alternative thought (the very purpose for of this board's existence).

I didn't think I would need to explain why that was to THIS audience, and frankly, I still don't. It should be obvious to anyone with even just a passing, glancing knowledge of the history of alternative political thought that anti-Semitism has played a HUGE role, historically, and still does (though it seems to be getting shuffled aside in favor of more vague "Illuminati" theories in recent years).

For more information on this topic, please consult Wikipedia. Or Google. The information is not hidden at all. It's available.

J

However, if anybody still needs


What I was getting at is that antisemitism doesn't need to be separated out from racism because it doesn't belong there in the first place; the Jews are not a race. It's one of those conflations that make the word 'racism' increasingly useless (apart from scaring folks that is).


Doesn't this come down to what 'race' is defined as?
And my first thought is that race is now a pretty useless concept.

I don't know if we can say the Jews are not a race; some Jewish people I know consider it a matter of culture, others their religion, some a mixture of some or all.
Some Jewish people I know refer to themselves (with tongue in cheek) as MOT - a member of the tribe.


It can do, the concept can be made to conveniently disappear by redefining it (and redefining it again etc etc)

What is noticable though is that racism doesn't go away just because some (over)clever people want to juggle with definitions, it all depends what your approach is. If you want to avoid the subject, by all means start redefining, if you want to actually tackle it though, you have to start where people actually are, which is why I wrote this:

jakell » Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:12 pm wrote:
Because 'race' is a thorny issue, I try not to alter it from how it is generally perceived by regular folks and ignoring the talking heads, ie more or less the same level of recognisence that racists apply, and disregarding the personal spin they put on it.....

" Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism"
User avatar
jakell
 
Posts: 1821
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 4:58 pm
Location: North England
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Red Ice Creations

Postby elfismiles » Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:14 pm

Haven't listened to this yet but it probly belongs in this discussion...

Nazi Sympathy and Racism in Alt Media, Roundtable discussion with Thomas Sheridan, Tom Secker, Adam and Aaron, TRR#121
Tuesday, 03 March 2015 03:41

Image

This is a special roundtable discussion featuring Thomas Sheridan, Tom Secker, and Adam of Themes and Memes. Aaron Franz hosts, and the topic at hand is the rise of Race Politics in the alternative media. Why is it that alt media has taken such a dark turn, and what can the rest of us do about it?

Listen to this show
http://traffic.libsyn.com/ageoftransiti ... _Aaron.mp3

topics include: racism, alternative, Truth Movement, psychology, frustration, psychic energy, Russell Brand, Adolf Hitler, National Socialism, midlife crisis, no resolution, masculine and feminine, dialectic, far right politics, Nazi Sympathy, revisionist history, personal values, obsession with disaster, sincerity, drug addiction, White Nationalism, division, mainstream recognition, self destruction, complexity, human nature, dogma, simple identity, reassessing self, need to belong, extended adolescence, The Greatest Story Never Told, emotive music, Hallmark commercial for Third Reich, Transformers score, WW2, narrative, Stalingrad, German people, Poland, distorted logic, truth documentaries, futurism, Nazi flying saucers, Nazi Bell, propaganda, Goebbels, taking allegory as literal, cults, ideals, synchronicity, Walpurgis Night, confronting history, ideological vacuum, idealizing the past, virility, doublethink, confusion, Nuremburg Racial Laws, play the victim, race politics, slavery, preserving culture, multiculturalism, cultural laws, authoritarian government, complexity, sectarianism, Downfall film

there is no video version of this podcast at this time

http://theageoftransitions.com/index.ph ... -and-aaron


... and maybe this ...

elfismiles » 02 Mar 2015 20:47 wrote:Not sure if I should put this in another or its own thread ... maybe a "Shooting Sprees that Didn't Happen" thread or ... idiots who shore up the "crazy conspiracy theorist" or "racist conspiracy theorist" memes.

How a Father With a Twitter Account Stopped a White Supremacist Terrorist from Shooting a Bunch of School Kids
9/11 truther spewed terrifying and hateful threats, and one dad could not let it go.

By Paul Rosenberg / Salon
March 2, 2015
http://www.alternet.org/media/how-fathe ... chool-kids
User avatar
elfismiles
 
Posts: 8511
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (4)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 46 guests