Red Ice Creations

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Red Ice Creations

Postby semper occultus » Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:28 pm

cptmarginal » 10 Aug 2015 23:03 wrote:Sure, the politics of "eugenics" programs emanated from the left. :lol:


....it was pretty ecumenical....

Eugenics: the skeleton that rattles loudest in the left's closet

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... loset-left

Jonathan Freedland

Socialism's one-time interest in eugenics is dismissed as an accident of history. But the truth is far more unpalatable

Harold Laski, stellar LSE professor, co-founder of the Left Book Club and one-time chairman of the Labour party, cautioned that: "The time is surely coming … when society will look upon the production of a weakling as a crime against itself." Meanwhile, JBS Haldane, admired scientist and socialist, warned that: "Civilisation stands in real danger from over-production of 'undermen'." That's Untermenschen in German.
User avatar
semper occultus
 
Posts: 2974
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:01 pm
Location: London,England
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Red Ice Creations

Postby cptmarginal » Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:04 pm

Points taken; I was just being particularly sensitive and couldn't help but see the familiar agenda of Red Ice Radio in the choice of topic. Those are all very good facts to bring up, presented in that article. I think it's also true that despite limiting genetics research the Soviets essentially ended up applying their own version of eugenics as well. But the definitions get slippery fast.

The Concept of the ‘New Soviet Man’ as a Eugenic Project: Eugenics in Soviet Russia after World War II

Now I've not listened to the interview with Frank Salter, but when I see this in the summary I'm pretty sure of where Henrik is leading the conversation:

He points to the war against Western society that is being waged through strong anti-white arguments involving the notion of breeding out ethnocentrism and the desire for self-preservation. We talk about the effects of the skewed drive for “diversity” across European and American lands, and we consider how the corroding weight of mass immigration could be clearing the way for a renewed interest in maintaining traditional rights.


Latest episode: Towson White Student Union & Traditionalist Youth Network
The new way of thinking is precisely delineated by what it is not.
cptmarginal
 
Posts: 2741
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:32 pm
Location: Gordita Beach
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Red Ice Creations

Postby jakell » Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:28 pm

cptmarginal » Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:04 pm wrote:Points taken; I was just being particularly sensitive and couldn't help but see the familiar agenda of Red Ice Radio in the choice of topic. Those are all very good facts to bring up, presented in that article. I think it's also true that despite limiting genetics research the Soviets essentially ended up applying their own version of eugenics as well. But the definitions get slippery fast.

The Concept of the ‘New Soviet Man’ as a Eugenic Project: Eugenics in Soviet Russia after World War II

Now I've not listened to the interview with Frank Salter, but when I see this in the summary I'm pretty sure of where Henrik is leading the conversation:

He points to the war against Western society that is being waged through strong anti-white arguments involving the notion of breeding out ethnocentrism and the desire for self-preservation. We talk about the effects of the skewed drive for “diversity” across European and American lands, and we consider how the corroding weight of mass immigration could be clearing the way for a renewed interest in maintaining traditional rights.


Latest episode: Towson White Student Union & Traditionalist Youth Network


This was my whole point in bumping this thread today though. This sort of thing, even though it has been going for almost 18 months now, is not the 'familiar agenda' of RIR and Henrik took a rather decisive turn at some point and the origin of this interests me. Certainly, white nationalists are looking for new outlets, and this is a feather in their cap.

I did indicate the episode you linked to above, and remarked that he seems is becoming less dispassionate about these issues. this is something I hadn't really noticed until recently.
" Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism"
User avatar
jakell
 
Posts: 1821
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 4:58 pm
Location: North England
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Red Ice Creations

Postby Searcher08 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:14 pm

jakell » Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:28 pm wrote:
cptmarginal » Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:04 pm wrote:Points taken; I was just being particularly sensitive and couldn't help but see the familiar agenda of Red Ice Radio in the choice of topic. Those are all very good facts to bring up, presented in that article. I think it's also true that despite limiting genetics research the Soviets essentially ended up applying their own version of eugenics as well. But the definitions get slippery fast.

The Concept of the ‘New Soviet Man’ as a Eugenic Project: Eugenics in Soviet Russia after World War II

Now I've not listened to the interview with Frank Salter, but when I see this in the summary I'm pretty sure of where Henrik is leading the conversation:

He points to the war against Western society that is being waged through strong anti-white arguments involving the notion of breeding out ethnocentrism and the desire for self-preservation. We talk about the effects of the skewed drive for “diversity” across European and American lands, and we consider how the corroding weight of mass immigration could be clearing the way for a renewed interest in maintaining traditional rights.


Latest episode: Towson White Student Union & Traditionalist Youth Network


This was my whole point in bumping this thread today though. This sort of thing, even though it has been going for almost 18 months now, is not the 'familiar agenda' of RIR and Henrik took a rather decisive turn at some point and the origin of this interests me. Certainly, white nationalists are looking for new outlets, and this is a feather in their cap.

I did indicate the episode you linked to above, and remarked that he seems is becoming less dispassionate about these issues. this is something I hadn't really noticed until recently.


This is my take as well.
Henrik 2.0, who chaired the Secret Space program with Catherine Fitts, Rich Dolan and Peter Levenda looked like he was trying to radiate the same vibe (not to mention haircut) as Ragnar Lothbrok from 'Vikings', albeit in a suit. Henrik 1.0 seemed a chilled-out affable (younger) George Noury with Swedish meatballs as opposed to:
User avatar
Searcher08
 
Posts: 5887
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:21 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Red Ice Creations

Postby cptmarginal » Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:30 am

Henrik 1.0 seemed a chilled-out affable (younger) George Noury with Swedish meatballs


You hit the nail on the head; the podcast was fun to listen to before precisely because it was explicitly open-minded. Before the introduction was changed (to add that little bit about "traditional values" or whatever euphemism he uses for racism) it used to be one of my favorite parts about the show. Setting the stage for questioning orthodoxy, and being easygoing and intelligent about it. The show has always had questionable guests, but that was sort of the whole point: talking about excluded viewpoints and controversial history.

I don't think that there is any problem with interviewing people about any particular topic, even something as alarming as reconsidering the historical image of Nazi Germany- but a white, right-wing perspective was definitely not supposed to be the whole focus of the show. And by making it the focus, it destroys the integrity of what he is doing and makes it into insufferably boring listening in the process. Red Ice Radio is tainted, to my eyes, and I'm embarrassed to have ever listened to it. Just look over the episode list, it's been pretty much non-stop crap for many months now.

If you go back to 2013, there were actually some black guests on the show. All I would ask of Henrik is this: try asking these guys what they think about the new direction for the show. Maybe even invite them back on and ask them about it. Yeah, I thought not.

-

But anyway, on the topic of eugenics this RI thread was one of the best discussions about it that I've seen anywhere. I appreciated the input of every person that contributed to this; it's a complex and thorny issue:

Eugenics is back. Or, rather: Never left.
The new way of thinking is precisely delineated by what it is not.
cptmarginal
 
Posts: 2741
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:32 pm
Location: Gordita Beach
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Red Ice Creations

Postby jakell » Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:11 am

The guest mix seemed to alter fairly decisively a while back, but Henrik didn't really, and more or less continued to frame the show in the usual terms and with his familiar intro, his opening spiel was amost like a theme.(music and all)

This latest one (The Towson one) seems to have a different sort of intro from Henrik, it's pretty focussed on WN issues, and he seems to be adding his own stuff in advance of the guest, speaking for much longer, in fact the roles seems to have altered and he makes Towson seem the milder one.
Towson does seem to make some intersting observations about what blacks (and other groups) think about this sort of stuff though, giving concrete examples

I think what encouraged me to post yesterday is that this seems like another alteration, I missed the first one. He may have been doing this for a while now, but it's the first time I've noticed it.
" Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism"
User avatar
jakell
 
Posts: 1821
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 4:58 pm
Location: North England
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Red Ice Creations

Postby Searcher08 » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:24 am

cptmarginal » Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:30 am wrote:
Henrik 1.0 seemed a chilled-out affable (younger) George Noury with Swedish meatballs


You hit the nail on the head; the podcast was fun to listen to before precisely because it was explicitly open-minded. Before the introduction was changed (to add that little bit about "traditional values" or whatever euphemism he uses for racism) it used to be one of my favorite parts about the show. Setting the stage for questioning orthodoxy, and being easygoing and intelligent about it. The show has always had questionable guests, but that was sort of the whole point: talking about excluded viewpoints and controversial history.

I don't think that there is any problem with interviewing people about any particular topic, even something as alarming as reconsidering the historical image of Nazi Germany- but a white, right-wing perspective was definitely not supposed to be the whole focus of the show. And by making it the focus, it destroys the integrity of what he is doing and makes it into insufferably boring listening in the process.


(My bolden)

Exactly my thoughts (and TBH with a touch of sadness)
I was left wondering what physical world event might possibly have happened to change him?
I remember seeing a documentary about an isolated Bosnian village (Muslims and Croats) where a little like the Shire in LOTR the people were united and loving to each other and often inter-married, but the red forest fire of war gradually moved closer and closer. Then it arrived with the arrival of Croat refugees - relatives of the people there; the women had been raped by Bosnian Muslim soldiers and there husbands shot. The village culture changed in a couple of days (all this filmed by the Canadian anthropologist staying there). It became riven down ethnic fault-lines.

I listened to the introduction to the Towson one - and I was honestly like DAFUQ?!
The whole vibe was of a person who has a VIEW on how things are and that they were going to BROADCAST THAT VIEW. When I listened to Red Ice before, it was precisely because Henrik did NOT have an axe to grind
Comparing him then with Kerry Cassidy, she, at that time
a) talked more than the interviewee
b) talked over the interviewee
c) swallowed any bullshit provided by the interviewee
d) ignored and feedback provided by the community
e) did not challenge the interviewee

Henrik 1.0 listened, created space, stated what he disagreed with, appreciated his audience AND respectfully challenged his guests.

Going back to the show I mentioned, this is pretty much 'Radio Stormfront'. His show now has an AGENDA, which it is communicating through this filter. It was a HUGE turn-off, like listening to someone reading prepared statements instead of creating Dialogue. I think it is also very much playing into hands of the whole neo-Liberal / Sorosian / globalist approach. Kind of like seeing a fire but not questioning one's intense reaction to just do something, to turn the water jets on it, when it might be the type of fire that needs foam, not water...

I was ultimately reminded of a saying from the Landmark Forum "What you resist, Persists"
Henrik now seems to have a very binary worldview.

Cowboys and Archons. :eeyaa
User avatar
Searcher08
 
Posts: 5887
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:21 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Red Ice Creations

Postby jakell » Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:04 am

Searcher08 » Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:24 pm wrote:
cptmarginal » Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:30 am wrote:
Henrik 1.0 seemed a chilled-out affable (younger) George Noury with Swedish meatballs


You hit the nail on the head; the podcast was fun to listen to before precisely because it was explicitly open-minded. Before the introduction was changed (to add that little bit about "traditional values" or whatever euphemism he uses for racism) it used to be one of my favorite parts about the show. Setting the stage for questioning orthodoxy, and being easygoing and intelligent about it. The show has always had questionable guests, but that was sort of the whole point: talking about excluded viewpoints and controversial history.

I don't think that there is any problem with interviewing people about any particular topic, even something as alarming as reconsidering the historical image of Nazi Germany- but a white, right-wing perspective was definitely not supposed to be the whole focus of the show. And by making it the focus, it destroys the integrity of what he is doing and makes it into insufferably boring listening in the process.


(My bolden)

Exactly my thoughts (and TBH with a touch of sadness)
I was left wondering what physical world event might possibly have happened to change him?
I remember seeing a documentary about an isolated Bosnian village (Muslims and Croats) where a little like the Shire in LOTR the people were united and loving to each other and often inter-married, but the red forest fire of war gradually moved closer and closer. Then it arrived with the arrival of Croat refugees - relatives of the people there; the women had been raped by Bosnian Muslim soldiers and there husbands shot. The village culture changed in a couple of days (all this filmed by the Canadian anthropologist staying there). It became riven down ethnic fault-lines.

I listened to the introduction to the Towson one - and I was honestly like DAFUQ?!
The whole vibe was of a person who has a VIEW on how things are and that they were going to BROADCAST THAT VIEW. When I listened to Red Ice before, it was precisely because Henrik did NOT have an axe to grind
Comparing him then with Kerry Cassidy, she, at that time
a) talked more than the interviewee
b) talked over the interviewee
c) swallowed any bullshit provided by the interviewee
d) ignored and feedback provided by the community
e) did not challenge the interviewee

Henrik 1.0 listened, created space, stated what he disagreed with, appreciated his audience AND respectfully challenged his guests.

Going back to the show I mentioned, this is pretty much 'Radio Stormfront'. His show now has an AGENDA, which it is communicating through this filter. It was a HUGE turn-off, like listening to someone reading prepared statements instead of creating Dialogue. I think it is also very much playing into hands of the whole neo-Liberal / Sorosian / globalist approach. Kind of like seeing a fire but not questioning one's intense reaction to just do something, to turn the water jets on it, when it might be the type of fire that needs foam, not water...

I was ultimately reminded of a saying from the Landmark Forum "What you resist, Persists"
Henrik now seems to have a very binary worldview.

Cowboys and Archons. :eeyaa


To me this isn't hard to see. The mass immigration and cloying political correctness he has described in his own country have been accurate, and to varying degrees apply over the whole continent (which is where paranoid conspiracy right wing conspiracy theory can find a foothold).

This alone though isn't enough to send him on the narrow path he seems to be on. I see these things and so do many others and have not been tempted to reach for transatlantic white nationalism (note how many American guests he has on). I suppose I had the model of British Nationalism to compare and contrast it to, maybe Swedish nationalism was too weak to show him alternatives.

When the WN's on the BDF gave up the ghost circa 2012, I pretty much knew they were gathering their skirts, and were looking for more solid ideological outlets than (the rather tiresomely mentioned) Stormfront, and this is one of them. They spotted an opportunity and carefully took it. The Left has been sleeping, but these guys haven't
" Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism"
User avatar
jakell
 
Posts: 1821
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 4:58 pm
Location: North England
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Red Ice Creations

Postby tapitsbo » Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:52 am

Interested in your take on "foam not water" Searcher08. What would that look like?

An easy explanation for the rise of this identity-based right wing material is a corresponding radicalization and mainstreaming of leftist identity politics, which in practice often seem to be demanding a segregated form of political life without recognition and/or participation of whites (e.g. Henrik's prime minister's statement that indigenous Swedish people don't exist and that descendants of immigrants, let alone indigenous Swedes, simply weren't important in comparison to new immigrants). Of course whites are going to be radicalized when they are attacked as a group yet can't represent themselves as a group in the public sphere.

OR maybe it's all a conspiracy by shadowy fascists in underground networks :whisper:
tapitsbo
 
Posts: 1824
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:58 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Red Ice Creations

Postby jakell » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:43 am

tapitsbo » Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:52 pm wrote:Interested in your take on "foam not water" Searcher08. What would that look like?

An easy explanation for the rise of this identity-based right wing material is a corresponding radicalization and mainstreaming of leftist identity politics, which in practice often seem to be demanding a segregated form of political life without recognition and/or participation of whites (e.g. Henrik's prime minister's statement that indigenous Swedish people don't exist and that descendants of immigrants, let alone indigenous Swedes, simply weren't important in comparison to new immigrants). Of course whites are going to be radicalized when they are attacked as a group yet can't represent themselves as a group in the public sphere.

OR maybe it's all a conspiracy by shadowy fascists in underground networks :whisper:


There's no reason why there can't be both. The trouble with shadowy networks is that they can be as big (or small if one wants to dismiss them) as required. I think though that we too often refer to size as a measure, but really, especially in these days of the internet, you don't have to be big to be effective. A modest number of good communicators, and an appropriate platform, is all that is necessary.

You're right about leftist leanings. The British National Party based their success on appealing to left leaning folks. Prior to that the movement was stuck with a limited number of malcontents who rarely hesitated to display Nazi symbols, and could barely be described as political. To refer to the BNP as 'the far right' was actually misleading.
" Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism"
User avatar
jakell
 
Posts: 1821
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 4:58 pm
Location: North England
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Red Ice Creations

Postby tapitsbo » Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:34 am

Their communicators aren't that good, and they're not really in power anywhere.
tapitsbo
 
Posts: 1824
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:58 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Red Ice Creations

Postby semper occultus » Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:28 am

.....its a several-pronged situation though : as a critical mass of people disengage from the established political parties & start to regard the establishment not just as irrelevant but the actual enemy......

* the rise of actual "insurgent" parties to power - that's setting the bar pretty high & has only really happened in circumstances of acute crisis in Greece

* the rise of insurgent parties to credible opposition - but below the breakthrough threshold e.g. Podemos in Spain, French National Front

* the rise of civic nationalism - Scottish SNP, Catalan separatists in Spain

* the gravitational pull exerted on the political orbits of the established parties by much smaller groups on their margins e.g. UKIP - rendered electorally irrelevant by the voting system but exerting huge influence on the policies and rhetoric of the 2 mainstream "parties of government"...

...This pull effect ofcourse also occurs in the second case but the mainstream will always be faced with the strategic choice of whether to co-opt or oppose the challengers ideas...


...tying all this back to the thread :-.

Anti-immigrant Sweden Democrats now the biggest party, according to poll

An anti-immigration party with roots in the neo-Nazi movement has become Sweden's most popular political party, according to a YouGov poll published on Thursday.
The Sweden Democrats now have the support of 25.2 per cent of voters, putting them ahead of both the ruling Social Democrats with 23.4 per cent and the centre-right Moderates with 21 per cent, according to the August poll for Metro newspaper.

By Richard Orange, Malmö4:08PM BST 20 Aug 2015

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -poll.html
User avatar
semper occultus
 
Posts: 2974
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:01 pm
Location: London,England
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Red Ice Creations

Postby semper occultus » Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:48 am

tapitsbo » 03 Sep 2015 15:52 wrote:An easy explanation for the rise of this identity-based right wing material is a corresponding radicalization and mainstreaming of leftist identity politics, which in practice often seem to be demanding a segregated form of political life without recognition and/or participation of whites


....that strikes me as a logical conclusion.....plus all the other stuff that goes along with it , the "white privilege" stuff, the no racism without power stuff...and the extent to which this is the elite's latest iteration of the old divide & rule strategy :

e.g. Guido Preparata - who I think is on to something :

http://www.guidopreparata.com/chpg/TIOT-7.pdf
User avatar
semper occultus
 
Posts: 2974
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:01 pm
Location: London,England
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Red Ice Creations

Postby jakell » Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:14 am

tapitsbo » Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:34 am wrote:
jakell » Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:43 am wrote:
tapitsbo » Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:52 pm wrote:Interested in your take on "foam not water" Searcher08. What would that look like?

An easy explanation for the rise of this identity-based right wing material is a corresponding radicalization and mainstreaming of leftist identity politics, which in practice often seem to be demanding a segregated form of political life without recognition and/or participation of whites (e.g. Henrik's prime minister's statement that indigenous Swedish people don't exist and that descendants of immigrants, let alone indigenous Swedes, simply weren't important in comparison to new immigrants). Of course whites are going to be radicalized when they are attacked as a group yet can't represent themselves as a group in the public sphere.

OR maybe it's all a conspiracy by shadowy fascists in underground networks :whisper:


There's no reason why there can't be both. The trouble with shadowy networks is that they can be as big (or small if one wants to dismiss them) as required. I think though that we too often refer to size as a measure, but really, especially in these days of the internet, you don't have to be big to be effective. A modest number of good communicators, and an appropriate platform, is all that is necessary.

You're right about leftist leanings. The British National Party based their success on appealing to left leaning folks. Prior to that the movement was stuck with a limited number of malcontents who rarely hesitated to display Nazi symbols, and could barely be described as political. To refer to the BNP as 'the far right' was actually misleading.

Their communicators aren't that good, and they're not really in power anywhere.


Well, being in power is overated in a time when things are coming apart.

Regarding communications skills, I would say that a number of Henrik's guests prove otherwise (and they were good enough to get Henrik on board in the first place), there's also a few other places on the net where the more cerebral side is apparent too.
" Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism"
User avatar
jakell
 
Posts: 1821
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 4:58 pm
Location: North England
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Red Ice Creations

Postby coffin_dodger » Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:32 am

jakell said:
Well, being in power is overated in a time when things are coming apart.


Unless occluded continuity follows, regardless.
User avatar
coffin_dodger
 
Posts: 2216
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:05 am
Location: UK
Blog: View Blog (14)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 45 guests