Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby brekin » Wed May 18, 2016 7:08 pm

Agent Orange Cooper » Wed May 18, 2016 3:48 pm wrote:Aside from the Jewish thing (which sounds like a bad joke) and the lazy numerology I don't really see what's wrong with any of that?


Mathis seems to hit all the marks of bad conspiracy smithing, identical twins, every athlete/performer at the top level was never any good, evil tenuous families trees with people being related to people who probably have changed their names, people who get rich and famous are all managed/operatives, etc. Granted, Tiger Woods could somehow be linked in somehow, somewhere to a deeper agenda, (I don't think anyone every doubted he was his dad's own private experiment) but good lord Mathis seems to just have a template he uses for everyone (have only read the Dylan, Elvis & Woods pieces). And really does one need enhancement drugs to excel/cheat at golf? Would they even work? Wouldn't an electro magnetic remote controlled golf ball just be easier?

Criteria of a Bad or Good Conspiracy Theory
http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/view ... p?p=592421

lunarmoth wrote:@ brekin: I'm just thinking that you may want to steel yourself as this will probably become a more common occurrence. As you know, some patterns are more compelling, reproducible and consumable, and very few people care to know who made the template.

Maybe not "steel myself" but I'd welcome a discussion, especially as we're really balancing one man's reputation against a world of hurt and deception, aren't we? In a way, I'm grateful to Mathis for spray-painting the whole arena -- that way nobody gets too wounded in the general mayhem. If this is the way the music business was set up, after all, there's nothing to fear and everything to gain from disclosure.

@ Cordelia: good idea.. let me think about that.


I'm confused, utterly, are you actually saying you are concerned about Cohen's reputation?

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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby Sounder » Wed May 18, 2016 7:32 pm

MM has a meth habit.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby brekin » Thu May 19, 2016 12:34 pm

Sounder » Wed May 18, 2016 6:32 pm wrote:MM has a meth habit.


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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby lunarmoth » Thu May 19, 2016 4:00 pm

I'm confused, utterly, are you actually saying you are concerned about Cohen's reputation?

Either you haven't been paying attention, brekin, or you're on memory-altering drugs. Of course I care about Cohen's reputation, and I also care about future generations -- and neither are helped by slavish hagiographies.
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby brekin » Thu May 19, 2016 4:47 pm

lunarmoth wrote:I'm confused, utterly, are you actually saying you are concerned about Cohen's reputation?

Either you haven't been paying attention, brekin, or you're on memory-altering drugs. Of course I care about Cohen's reputation, and I also care about future generations -- and neither are helped by slavish hagiographies.


Oh, I've been Johnny on the spot and am prescription free. Let me fire up the Way Back Machine.

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Maybe you would like to tell Mr. Peabody, Sherman, how you can care about Cohen's reputation when you wrote the below (highlighted in red) which basically is a reputation bunker buster.

brekin » Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:20 pm wrote:
guruilla » Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:47 pm wrote:
brekin wrote:My purpose is to discover the Truth. The thread title asks the question, "Leonard Cohen, Operative?" Well, I'm asking what is on the other side of the "?" at this point. I haven't made up my mind, but the claim is pretty large, so I'm going to need some large evidence or argument to convince me. So far, I'm not convinced, but I haven't dug in like others here who have. I'm just curious for those that have do they think he is? If so, great, what was the clincher? Show me, and I'm your man. If not, well then, why find any fault with questioning the evidence or those putting it out? Is it wrong to be critical of such claims? What if the thread was titled, "Wayne Newton, Operative?"

I don't see, how on one hand, its fine to just accuse Cohen of being an operative but questioning the the writer and her motives suddenly is bad form. I mean, this is coming from the guy who started the Joseph Campbell Anti-Semite thread. I don't have time for heroes, and if Cohen is a spook, great, but lets see some evidence. I ain't got time for fairy stories.

My criticism is based on your own admission that you don't have time to look at the evidence, but you are willing to make accusations based mostly on speculation (unless you consider AD's bio evidence?). If your purpose is to discover the Truth, big T, I would have thought you would want to hear the evidence and reach your own conclusion, not ask what someone believes and then request to see the proverbial "smoking gun" that convinced them. There are a number of ways that doesn't work, as I'm guessing you've seen in your own experience.

I don't want to seem tricky or evasive, however, so here's a more direct answer: a) Yes, based on Ann Diamond's testimony, the evidence which she presents, and that which I have gathered since hearing her story, most of which is linked or pasted at this thread, I believe that Leonard Cohen was an operative, as well as a subject of MKULTRA mind control and part of a very large social engineering program that includes well-known cultural figures, artist-leaders such as Cohen; b) there is no "smoking gun" to bring forth that will convince any skeptic who is not willing to put in the necessary time to sift through the evidence themselves. As any detective will tell you, most of the time, it's about gathering evidence and arranging it in a coherent fashion until a picture emerges of what happened. It is more like a jigsaw puzzle than a damning piece of photographic evidence, and there isn't usually an Aha! moment that coincides with any ultimately conclusive piece of evidence, rather a slow accumulation of insights that finally add up to something like certainty. In other words, that last coincidence that breaks the spell of the cover-story is not going to be the same for anyone else. It's the process, the individual journey of uncovering, that leads to a breakthrough.

If cover stories could be blown up by simple evidence, the whole thing would have blown open a long time ago, surely?

If this was a trial, you'd be the equivalent of a jury member saying, "Can we skip all this boring discussion stuff and just hear what the prosecutor thinks and why, please?" But the summation speech is meaningless without the trial process that precedes it.


Thank you. See that wasn't so hard. You think he was (no "is", but I quibble) an Operative. Great. I'm going to have to review the evidence in the thread. But so far, it is hard going and more than a little hard to fathom/believe. Take this section for example, here we have all of Cohen:
1. Famous Singer/songwriter 2. On Location Snuff Film Producer 3. Child Abuser (postponed) 4. Executioner (unwilling) 5. Incurable Romantic (always).

The only crime he doesn't commit in this section is tax evasion. See the thing is, if Cohen was like this, lets just say he is, would he make a good operative? Wouldn't he be a liability really instead? We have Cohen (probably in his famous blue raincoat) busting into a guy's apartment to film a gang rape/murder. Wouldn't this attract some attention in a Denver apartment complex? I mean Cohen is no John Denver but wouldn't the people in 2A or 2B notice the semi-famous singer songwriter and his wrecking crew?

Wouldn't such a thing happen instead in some private home in a secluded controlled area? Wouldn't the number of people be kept to a minimum, Cohen's presence concealed as much as possible? But that wouldn't be as dramatic would it? I mean I could go on, but I think you get my gist.

Diana’s life parallels my own. We both met Leonard when
we were children, through the classified mind control project
known as MKULTRA. As children, both of us were placed in a
special program for psychically gifted children. Diana’s secret career
in the military began on bases in New Brunswick. Later, she says,
her mother moved to Montreal and worked for the Cohen family as
a domestic. At 18, at Expo 67, someone introduced her to Leonard,
then a rising star and darling of Canadian media. She went on to
have a brief career in regional television, back in New Brunswick.
By the mid-70s, she had met a number of people in the
entertainment business, including John Lennon and Yoko Ono, at
whose suggestion she moved to in Denver, CO, and got involved in
Primal Scream Therapy. Her therapy sessions were unearthing early
childhood memories including sexual abuse and military
programming.

In early September of 1979, just after the summer on
Hydra, around the time I returned to Canada from Germany after
saying goodbye to Annu, Diana claims she met Leonard in Denver
where he performed in a small club. She doesn’t remember the
name of the club, only that man suggested she come to the concert.
Later, Leonard would claim it was love at first sight.
Here is where it gets terribly interesting, or just plain
terrible. Soon afterwards, another man asked Diana out on a date,
took her back to his place, and assaulted her. In the midst of this
violent rape, the door to the apartment burst open, and Leonard
Cohen walked in with a camera crew. The men began filming a
scene that quickly turned into a gang rape. Then she says, Leonard
held a gun to her head. “You like to be hurt, don’t you? Say it!”
Another man pulled out a pile of bills and told Leonard to “snuff
her.” As she was crying and pleading for her life, a little girl was
brought in. Leonard told them to “get her out of here – and bring
her to me later.”


It had to have all been planned beforehand, with Diana the
chosen victim. Snuff films brought in tens of thousands, and
Leonard in those days was short of cash. One of his Montreal
contacts, involved in the pornography business, had been on Hydra
a few weeks earlier, but mysteriously vanished at around the time
she encountered the film crew in the Denver apartment.
Leonard refused to pull the trigger. He told the crew to
leave, and take the child with them. He and Diana were left alone to
spend the night together. They fell in love.
If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby Agent Orange Cooper » Thu May 19, 2016 4:52 pm

Not that it's directed at me, brekin, but I have to say the tone you've taken in the last few posts when talking to lunarmoth comes off as really, really condescending. maybe knock it off?
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby brekin » Thu May 19, 2016 4:59 pm

Agent Orange Cooper » Thu May 19, 2016 3:52 pm wrote:Not that it's directed at me, brekin, but I have to say the tone you've taken in the last few posts when talking to lunarmoth comes off as really, really condescending. maybe knock it off?


Nah. Maybe you should not get so riled by cartoon characters?
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smoked cartoon meat smoked cartoon meat

Postby convolvulaceae » Sat May 21, 2016 3:09 pm

brekin » Thu May 19, 2016 4:59 pm wrote:
Agent Orange Cooper » Thu May 19, 2016 3:52 pm wrote:Not that it's directed at me, brekin, but I have to say the tone you've taken in the last few posts when talking to lunarmoth comes off as really, really condescending. maybe knock it off?


Nah. Maybe you should not get so riled by cartoon characters?


well put brekin. well put brekin.


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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby guruilla » Sat May 21, 2016 3:53 pm

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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby Agent Orange Cooper » Sat May 21, 2016 4:02 pm

sick meme dude. you really outed my White Knightness with that one.
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby brekin » Sun May 22, 2016 7:28 pm

Agent Orange Cooper wrote:sick meme dude. you really outed my White Knightness with that one.


I'd review the entire thread; much advice, glib jabs and concerned statements now are ultimately a form of self confession. The truth is in the pudding, all deliciously 35 ironic pages of it.

If I was Jor El, I would seal the primary players inside this thread until they saw the error of their ways.

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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby guruilla » Sun May 22, 2016 9:16 pm

brekin » Sun May 22, 2016 7:28 pm wrote:I'd review the entire thread; much advice, glib jabs and concerned statements now are ultimately a form of self confession. The truth is in the pudding, all deliciously 35 ironic pages of it.

If I was Jor El, I would seal the primary players inside this thread until they saw the error of their ways.

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:signwhut: :wowsign:

Did one of the primary players of this thread actually say that? :lol:
It is a lot easier to fool people than show them how they have been fooled.
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby brekin » Sun May 22, 2016 10:15 pm

guruilla wrote:
brekin » Sun May 22, 2016 7:28 pm wrote:I'd review the entire thread; much advice, glib jabs and concerned statements now are ultimately a form of self confession. The truth is in the pudding, all deliciously 35 ironic pages of it.

If I was Jor El, I would seal the primary players inside this thread until they saw the error of their ways.

Image

:signwhut: :wowsign:

Did one of the primary players of this thread actually say that? :lol:


Jeez, do I have to spell everything out?

A Summing Up:

You post the unrequited White Knight meme because you perceived Cooper as rushing to the defense and "protecting" lunarmoth, when ironically that was what you had been doing in this thread for a quarter of it, until she decided you were somehow the blame for "the theory" being released in to the public before it was ready for prime time. Similiarly, she wrote and published a book (which one guesses she assumes is somehow more low key than podcasts and Internet forums) implying Cohen was an operative and now is worried about this being passed around the Internet, unattributed and packaged as fact, not memoir-musings, and hurting his reputation. Any of this sound familiar? Everyone has come full circle. Even me. I went from someone who avoided this thread thinking it a waste of time to being unable to not visit it when it rears its head, knowing it is a waste of time.

Why all the sudden faintness? Did some people get a visit from their conscience lately, or just an email from a lawyer?
If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby guruilla » Mon May 23, 2016 1:28 am

That's your version of events, brekin; it's not mine. I keep an eye on this thread because I am still interested in the subject and in RI in general. Posting at a thread to say that it's a waste of time to post there speaks to, and of, a certain lack of consciousness on the part of the poster, don't you think? Your consistent policing this thread has helped ensure that the discussion stay within certain tight parameters that, I'd agree, has made for a lot of circular argumentation going nowhere except to further exacerbate the personal differences of the people posting here, intensifying dis-affinities. Your perception of error remains just that, a perception which you haven't argued well enough to persuade hardly anyone else of, even as you complain that I or lunarmoth haven't argued persuasively as to LC's operative-status. Which is why it's always felt to me that personal issues were being aired here, not in a way to dispel them but at the cost of any genuine or open exploration of the material.

For my own part, if anyone is interested, I am not really concerned with Cohen's reputation as I think he has vast resources and legions of well-trained personnel, not to mention a ferociously devoted fan base, to take care of that. I doubt if anything we say here or at my blog is really going to impact Cohen's earnings or in any way compromise his reputation, unless, that is, there's some truth in it. The snuff movie anecdote I have already conceded was too salacious and unsubstantiated (or unsubstantiable) to be helpful, hence I regretted (mildly) copying and pasting it here. I've certainly had my differences with lunarmoth and found our points of view to be at least as much at odds as complementary, but I don't regret getting involved with her or this material, and I'm glad that it has proven as useful as it has to so many people, despite brekin's constant bellyaching about it. For myself, I've noticed lately that I can no longer listen to most of Cohen's songs without feeling distaste, so for me at least, his rep is on the ropes. Rightly or wrongly, I have persuaded myself that he's "dirty" (in Jan Irvin's phrase), and I can't see Cohen crying in his sleep over that. For me it's just a case of the evidence speaking for itself, and of one more icon biting the dust. I may have overreacted; time will tell.

On the other side of things, his PR man Stephen Gianelli (who claims to be a disinterested party) has been trying to post a link at my blog for several days now about how Kelley Lynch's case has been thrown out of court as being "legally and factually frivolous." Maybe brekin and Gianelli should go hang out over coffee and donuts and take comfort in knowing that the Law is on their side? Here's the link anyhow: https://www.scribd.com/doc/313156039/Or ... 16-2771svw

If anything this only makes me more inclined to talk to Lynch, but then I am a sucker for the underdog. And if anything, brekin's repeated attempts to cast this thread and its proponents into the Phantom Zone have only been keeping it alive. Call me contrarian... (FTR, I enjoy most of brekin's posts at other threads.)
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby brekin » Mon May 23, 2016 12:22 pm

guruilla wrote:That's your version of events, brekin; it's not mine. I keep an eye on this thread because I am still interested in the subject and in RI in general. Posting at a thread to say that it's a waste of time to post there speaks to, and of, a certain lack of consciousness on the part of the poster, don't you think? Your consistent policing this thread has helped ensure that the discussion stay within certain tight parameters that, I'd agree, has made for a lot of circular argumentation going nowhere except to further exacerbate the personal differences of the people posting here, intensifying dis-affinities. Your perception of error remains just that, a perception which you haven't argued well enough to persuade hardly anyone else of, even as you complain that I or lunarmoth haven't argued persuasively as to LC's operative-status. Which is why it's always felt to me that personal issues were being aired here, not in a way to dispel them but at the cost of any genuine or open exploration of the material.

For my own part, if anyone is interested, I am not really concerned with Cohen's reputation as I think he has vast resources and legions of well-trained personnel, not to mention a ferociously devoted fan base, to take care of that. I doubt if anything we say here or at my blog is really going to impact Cohen's earnings or in any way compromise his reputation, unless, that is, there's some truth in it. The snuff movie anecdote I have already conceded was too salacious and unsubstantiated (or unsubstantiable) to be helpful, hence I regretted (mildly) copying and pasting it here. I've certainly had my differences with lunarmoth and found our points of view to be at least as much at odds as complementary, but I don't regret getting involved with her or this material, and I'm glad that it has proven as useful as it has to so many people, despite brekin's constant bellyaching about it. For myself, I've noticed lately that I can no longer listen to most of Cohen's songs without feeling distaste, so for me at least, his rep is on the ropes. Rightly or wrongly, I have persuaded myself that he's "dirty" (in Jan Irvin's phrase), and I can't see Cohen crying in his sleep over that. For me it's just a case of the evidence speaking for itself, and of one more icon biting the dust. I may have overreacted; time will tell.

On the other side of things, his PR man Stephen Gianelli (who claims to be a disinterested party) has been trying to post a link at my blog for several days now about how Kelley Lynch's case has been thrown out of court as being "legally and factually frivolous." Maybe brekin and Gianelli should go hang out over coffee and donuts and take comfort in knowing that the Law is on their side? Here's the link anyhow: https://www.scribd.com/doc/313156039/Or ... 16-2771svw

If anything this only makes me more inclined to talk to Lynch, but then I am a sucker for the underdog. And if anything, brekin's repeated attempts to cast this thread and its proponents into the Phantom Zone have only been keeping it alive. Call me contrarian... (FTR, I enjoy most of brekin's posts at other threads.)


Yes, a certain lack of consciousness, that's it, yeah...thats the ticket.

If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
I hang onto my prejudices, they are the testicles of my mind. Eric Hoffer
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