Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby lunarmoth » Mon May 23, 2016 11:49 pm

If this thread and some of the events described have been difficult for some people to read, you should have been around when all of it was happening. Isn't that why we stay up late: because life is unfair and complicated, and we can't forget? Things explode and we think we'll put them back together by telling our stories, mostly to ourselves in the dark, but occasionally someone listens.

When I hear a story I'm all the characters, as well as the critics and judges. Maybe guruilla does not realize what a hero (at first I wrote 'friend') he has been in helping me tell this story in a coherent way that didn't spiral down into nothingness because being who he is and knowing what he knows he became a container for something that, for me, seemed uncontainable. However seeing it here still came as a shock, and I think I overreacted at times but I had to say something. This business of "pop stars" and how they substitute for deities especially to young people, is not simple to decode. Maybe I'm the only one who really benefited from this thread and maybe that's why I'm not bitter -- I feel lighter than I have in years. Now all this is your problem, too. Isn't that catharsis? I know guruilla doesn't believe in catharsis, but I've felt it therefore I do.

It's just so tempting to take sides in a drama as it plays but in the end it's up to the writer to make sure there is compassion even for the darker ones. Getting to that place takes time and effort and there's no point rushing to forgiveness before judgment has done its work. I'm grateful to guruilla (again) for pasting in the worst scene in the book - the scene like a hand choking me that stopped me from finishing or even going back and proofreading. The fact he chose to put it on here was devastating and at the same time I welcomed it. I was no longer alone with it and I recall back then, when I finally got it together to react, I suggested we needed to talk about violent pornography instead of letting it be the elephant in the room. This was before I'd read Seen Not Seen (I always get the title wrong).

I don't know why some people keep saying they feel disappointed or disillusioned now that they know certain songs are "tainted"? Tainted with what? The truth that this is not a kindergarten and when you find out what's really going on you might be tempted to hang up your guitar and take an overdose, rather than sing about what you know? But some people keep on singing for better or worse, whether or not they win your acclaim for trying.

I'm simply saying this thread has helped me move on. I can't make brekin happy or put Humpty back together again but I can breathe better knowing we're in this together. I'm back to Greek drama and all the awful, cruel and stomach - turning deeds that get done when the cauldron heats up and people are thrown into it. Certain plays started thousands of years ago are still finished or exist only in fragments. Would you prefer they'd never been written or performed?

So once again I'm just thanking you all. Can't help it. When I go over thar "salacious scene" in my mind I actually see it as redeeming. Do I need to explain why?
"We come from France"
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby backtoiam » Tue May 24, 2016 2:47 am

lunarmoth wrote

Maybe I'm the only one who really benefited from this thread and maybe that's why I'm not bitter -- I feel lighter than I have in years.


I got benefit. I followed this thread with interest. I appreciate you sharing your experiences. This has been an incredibly interesting read. Thank you lunarmoth for sharing your experiences. :thumbsup
"A mind stretched by a new idea can never return to it's original dimensions." Oliver Wendell Holmes
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby Cordelia » Tue May 24, 2016 9:51 am

I greatly appreciated the information and insight provided in this thread and glad to have participated in its discordant chorus. I suspect the final curtain hasn't dropped, but if it has, Hallelujah.
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby brekin » Tue May 24, 2016 12:05 pm

Cordelia wrote:I greatly appreciated the information and insight provided in this thread and glad to have participated in its discordant chorus. I suspect the final curtain hasn't dropped, but if it has, Hallelujah.




Hallelujah

Now I've heard there was a secret chord
That David played, and it pleased the Lord
But you don't really care for music, do you?
It goes like this
The fourth, the fifth
The minor fall, the major lift
The baffled king composing Hallelujah

Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah

Your faith was strong but you needed proof
You saw her bathing on the roof
Her beauty and the moonlight overthrew you
She tied you to a kitchen chair
She broke your throne, and she cut your hair
And from your lips she drew the Hallelujah

Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
You say I took the name in vain
I don't even know the name
But if I did, well really, what's it to you?
There's a blaze of light
In every word
It doesn't matter which you heard
The holy or the broken Hallelujah

Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah

I did my best, it wasn't much
I couldn't feel, so I tried to touch
I've told the truth, I didn't come to fool you
And even though it all went wrong
I'll stand before the Lord of Song
With nothing on my tongue but Hallelujah
If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
I hang onto my prejudices, they are the testicles of my mind. Eric Hoffer
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby lunarmoth » Wed May 25, 2016 3:34 pm

I think Hallelujahs are premature but I do understand the need for closure.

It depends on what you understand by "broken" -- a nice, soft image of a suffering saint who haplessly erred and is making a sincere confession.

"Broken" can also mean "corrupted" -- in which case there's nothing to sing about. Corrupted has too many syllables but we could substitute "tainted" -- how does that sound? Does it still not matter which you heard?

How about "busted"? I think I'll go with that.
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby guruilla » Sat May 28, 2016 12:21 pm

lunarmoth » Mon May 23, 2016 11:49 pm wrote: Isn't that catharsis? I know guruilla doesn't believe in catharsis, but I've felt it therefore I do.

I think that's a reference to/misreading of something I wrote at the Girard thread? In any event, not only do I believe in catharsis but I have been immersed in it since my cat died two weeks ago and because of it I stopped reading this thread, not wanting to get pulled into the intellectualism that generally prevails at this forum (IMO).

I am grateful to lunarmoth for allowing me to contain (and to some degree direct) that profound (and profoundly traumatic) experience/gnosis which she has carried around all this time, and for being willing to weather the slings & arrows of skepticism &, at times, denial at this forum that can be so disheartening and anxiety-producing for those of us struggling to uncover the truth of our lives.

I'm likewise grateful to everyone at this thread (inc. brekin) for helping to create a simulator of the world & so help me iron out some rough spots of my thought and expression, something RI has always been invaluable for.

For anyone interested, lunarmoth & I met in my hometown & recorded a conversation recently which went up today, here. Cohen isn't mentioned once, which perhaps suggests that he was never more than a tasty tidbit to lure us into the underworld of our own direct experiences, where the real meat is. If so, I guess I should give my thanks to Len, too, and call it even ~ for now.


(Start at 1:42)
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby brekin » Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:54 pm

Leonard Cohen on Longevity, Money, Poetry and Sandwiches

...
Q: I was curious about a lyric on "Nevermind," "There's truth that lives and there's truth that dies."

A: "There's truth that lives and truth that dies. I don't know which, so never mind. There is no need that this survive, there's truth that lives and truth that dies." It's one of those phrases that resonates in some corner of the heart. And I don't think it serves us well to explain it or to analyze it or to interpret it. It sounded right to me. There are certain truths that are in a dormant stage that you can't always locate or be nourished by. But they're there.
....


http://www.rollingstone.com/music/featu ... z4AMowTVk8
If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
I hang onto my prejudices, they are the testicles of my mind. Eric Hoffer
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby MinM » Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:13 pm

Cordelia » Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:14 am wrote:fwiw.....

1971's darkly brilliant 'McCabe & Mrs. Miller' was L. C. 101 for some baby-boomers (can't remember the film without the music and vice versa) and introduction to Leonard Cohen and Robert Altman.

"Some people don’t like the way he uses Leonard Cohen songs in this film? Because that is crazy talk. Not too many films use the one-artist-for-the-whole-soundtrack approach—Harold And Maude comes to mind first—because that means living in the tone set by that artist for the entire film. But Cohen is perfect here: yearning, fatalistic, weary, but never quite defeated".........."The film is unimaginable to me without the Cohen songs, which function as these mournful interstitials that unify the entire movie."

https://thedissolve.com/features/movie- ... leonard-c/

Image@mental_floss

13 Fascinating Facts About ‘McCabe & Mrs. Miller’http://bit.ly/28VESpC
Image

Robert Altman was a maverick and an iconoclast who turned a number of genres on their heads. M*A*S*H was an antiwar comedy; The Long Goodbye was a new version of a film noir; Popeye was certainly not your typical family film based on a cartoon character. And of course there's McCabe & Mrs. Miller, a "revisionist Western" that replaces the customary climactic shootout with a sequence where the hero sneaks around and hides, trying to stay out of it. Everything about McCabe & Mrs. Miller was different from the Westerns people had grown up with, which might account for why it was commercially unpopular at the time. Its reputation improved, though, and now it's considered one of Altman's best. Here are some behind-the-scenes facts to enhance your enjoyment...

13. ALTMAN MIGHT HAVE BEEN SUBCONSCIOUSLY INFLUENCED BY LEONARD COHEN.

The director bought the Songs of Leonard Cohen album in 1967, listened to it frequently, fell in love with it ... and then forgot about it. By his own account, two years later he was in Paris, thinking about McCabe, for which he already knew he didn't want a traditional orchestral musical score. A friend played the Leonard Cohen album, and Altman said, "That's the music!" He immediately reached out to Cohen to get permission to use a few of the songs, which fans of the film know are eerily appropriate. Altman had heavily revised Brian McKay's screenplay, and Cohen's lyrics must have seeped into his brain. "It was uncanny how the lyrics of those songs fit the film," Altman said. "I think subconsciously, that must have been in my head."

http://mentalfloss.com/article/82145/13 ... mrs-miller
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby lunarmoth » Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:24 am

"We come from France"
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby lunarmoth » Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:01 am

On September 26, 2015, this appeared at a Cohen fansite: http://cohencentric.com/2015/09/26/the- ... gina-1970/

Was this a response to questions that were raised concerning the possibly not-so-innocent meaning behind this obscure performance video (which i am told has some spyware sticking to it so be careful downloading it).

I came across it the other day because recently I joined a 'Paul McCartney is Dead' discussion forum, and the Queen came up. Is there a thread on here for Paul is Dead? I'm about 99% convinced he is, and that Lizzie had something to do with it. I have long had doubts about Her Majesty (a pretty nice girl with slits for pupils) - and so did Paul, apparently.

Then I discovered that Leonard Cohen has a new CD coming out: "You Want it Darker" --which people are praising in advance of its release.

The titles and a few lyrics that i skimmed seemed relevant to this thread. It appears LC is looking back on a long series of career-definiing choices, with the usual fatalistic regret. "Steer Your Way" touches on Palaces. "Steer your way past the Palaces that rise above the rot..."
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby PufPuf93 » Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:12 pm

I like this song a lot.



"You Want It Darker"

If you are the dealer, I'm out of the game
If you are the healer, it means I'm broken and lame
If thine is the glory then mine must be the shame
You want it darker
We kill the flame

Magnified, sanctified, be thy holy name
Vilified, crucified, in the human frame
A million candles burning for the help that never came
You want it darker

Hineni, hineni
I'm ready, my lord

There's a lover in the story
But the story's still the same
There's a lullaby for suffering
And a paradox to blame
But it's written in the scriptures
And it's not some idle claim
You want it darker
We kill the flame

They're lining up the prisoners
And the guards are taking aim
I struggled with some demons
They were middle class and tame
I didn't know I had permission to murder and to maim
You want it darker

Hineni, hineni
I'm ready, my lord

Magnified, sanctified, be thy holy name
Vilified, crucified, in the human frame
A million candles burning for the love that never came
You want it darker
We kill the flame

If you are the dealer, let me out of the game
If you are the healer, I'm broken and lame
If thine is the glory, mine must be the shame
You want it darker

Hineni, hineni
Hineni, hineni
I'm ready, my lord

Hineni
Hineni, hineni
Hineni

-------------------------

Note:

Hineni - "Here I am." was the response of the patriarchs and prophets to the call of G-d, to signals total dedications and commitment to Jewish life.

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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby guruilla » Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:10 pm

It seems that Leonard did not make it through whatever vortex we just went through. RIP Leonard Cohen. You wanted it darker...

At the risk of being callous, it will be interesting to see what, if anything, comes to light now that he is gone.
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby guruilla » Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:12 pm

Or maybe this belongs on the Mandela thread?

“Leonard Cohen dead 2016” : Singer killed by internet death hoax

News of singer Leonard Cohen’s death spread quickly earlier this week causing concern among fans across the world. However the November 2016 report has now been confirmed as a complete hoax and just the latest in a string of fake celebrity death reports. Thankfully, the singer best known for hit songs like Hallelujah or Suzanne is alive and well.

Rumors of the singer’s alleged demise gained traction on Wednesday after a ‘R.I.P. Leonard Cohen’ Facebook page attracted nearly one million of ‘likes’. Those who read the ‘About’ page were given a believable account of the Canadian singer’s passing:

“At about 11 a.m. ET on Wednesday (November 09, 2016), our beloved singer Leonard Cohen passed away. Leonard Cohen was born on September 21, 1934 in Montreal. He will be missed but not forgotten. Please show your sympathy and condolences by commenting on and liking this page.”
Hundreds of fans immediately started writing their messages of condolence on the Facebook page, expressing their sadness that the talented 82-year-old singer, songwriter, musician and poet was dead. And as usual, Twittersphere was frenzied over the death hoax.

Where as some trusting fans believed the post, others were immediately skeptical of the report, perhaps learning their lesson from the huge amount of fake death reports emerging about celebrities over recent months. Some pointed out that the news had not been carried on any major Canadian network, indicating that it was a fake report, as the death of a singer of Leonard Cohen's stature would be major news across networks.

A recent poll conducted for the Celebrity Post shows that a large majority (77%) of respondents think those Leonard Cohen death rumors are not funny anymore.

On Thursday (November 10) the singer's reps officially confirmed that Leonard Cohen is not dead. “He joins the long list of celebrities who have been victimized by this hoax. He's still alive and well, stop believing what you see on the Internet,” they said.

Some fans have expressed anger at the fake report saying it was reckless, distressing and hurtful to fans of the much loved singer. Others say this shows his extreme popularity across the globe.

http://en.mediamass.net/people/leonard- ... hhoax.html
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby brekin » Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:47 pm

guruilla » Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:10 pm wrote:It seems that Leonard did not make it through whatever vortex we just went through. RIP Leonard Cohen. You wanted it darker...
At the risk of being callous, it will be interesting to see what, if anything, comes to light now that he is gone.


Even for you pretty thoughtless. May you be in heaven a full half hour before guruilla knows your dead.
If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
I hang onto my prejudices, they are the testicles of my mind. Eric Hoffer
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby guruilla » Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:43 pm

Ann Diamond on FB:
I heard a eulogy yesterday on AM radio yesterday. Leonard's family stated that Leonard kept himself alive because he had to be sure Trump won the election before he could go.


https://www.facebook.com/splinterboy/po ... 22R2%22%7D
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