Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby brekin » Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:54 pm

guruilla » Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:43 pm wrote:Ann Diamond on FB:
I heard a eulogy yesterday on AM radio yesterday. Leonard's family stated that Leonard kept himself alive because he had to be sure Trump won the election before he could go.


https://www.facebook.com/splinterboy/po ... 22R2%22%7D


A link to the AM radio broadcast would be nice. Or is that also buried in a box somewhere?
If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
I hang onto my prejudices, they are the testicles of my mind. Eric Hoffer
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby guruilla » Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:23 pm

(this is not a response to brekin since I filter brekin's posts for the same reason I don't snort cocaine or watch Nicholas Cage movies)

So far I have been unable to confirm this claim, which is actually sourced in one John Harvey, who claims to have heard the AM radio show in question (he told me it was Michigan News). Mr. Harvey has also expressed semi-favorable views of Donald Trump, so until further notice the rumor that Leonard Cohen supported Donald Trump should be considered unsubstantiated.
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby Burnt Hill » Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:41 pm

You can't confirm the claim, which you have posted in at least two threads.
You don't know the context of the supposed statement either.
You have made quite a few previous posts with spurious information.
You sometimes come off as intelligent, yet here you are acting like a twelve year old.
You do have an agenda, one that has little to do with being truthful, or finding the truth.
Ja Sun, yeah, right.
:sun:
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby lunarmoth » Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:30 pm

It's not a spurious claim. Did you think for a moment Leonard, who loved Ronald Reagan, would support Hillary in this election? He never had a crumb of sympathy for left-wing matriarchies.

In his final interview he talks about why he spent years in a mountain Zen retreat ('boot camp'): "it stops you whining." http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultur ... -interview

Towards the end he refers to "mind control" and ends by reciting an unfinished song about the 'hummingbird" and the "butterfly" -- as close as he ever came to confirming his MKULTRA connection.

R.I.P.
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby tapitsbo » Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:51 pm

Burnt Hill » Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:41 pm wrote:You can't confirm the claim, which you have posted in at least two threads.
You don't know the context of the supposed statement either.
You have made quite a few previous posts with spurious information.
You sometimes come off as intelligent, yet here you are acting like a twelve year old.
You do have an agenda, one that has little to do with being truthful, or finding the truth.
Ja Sun, yeah, right.
:sun:


Has anyone figured out guruilla's agenda yet, though?

His seems slightly more inscrutable than most (makes him more interesting imo)
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby Burnt Hill » Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:56 pm

I agree that the potential of it being a genuine quote exists.
Whether or not it is true is yet to be determined, if ever.
My trouble has to do with my assessment of guruilla's intent.
Since that is me making it personal, I apologize.
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby Burnt Hill » Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:08 pm

tapitsbo » Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:51 pm wrote:
Burnt Hill » Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:41 pm wrote:You can't confirm the claim, which you have posted in at least two threads.
You don't know the context of the supposed statement either.
You have made quite a few previous posts with spurious information.
You sometimes come off as intelligent, yet here you are acting like a twelve year old.
You do have an agenda, one that has little to do with being truthful, or finding the truth.
Ja Sun, yeah, right.
:sun:


Has anyone figured out guruilla's agenda yet, though?

His seems slightly more inscrutable than most (makes him more interesting imo)


Interesting sometimes.
Inscrutable to the point of nonsense often.
There is an underlying pathology that concerns me,
because I see it as intentional.
:blankstare
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby guruilla » Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:14 pm

@lunarmoth & tapitsbo (hey, some posts I can actually see! :yay ):

What I find interesting about this rumor is how it magnifies the mass of assumptions which many people operate under & how clunky & ungainly it makes their thinking (if you can even call it that, emoting might be more accurate).

For example, the assumption that you can tell a person’s true character via their public performance. Leonard Cohen was a sweet, wise, peace-loving and woman-honoring liberal guy because that’s what his music & words seemed to suggest/promote. Like people can’t be multifaceted.

Or the assumption that a person’s political leanings indicate their basic character. Sweet, wise, peace-loving & woman-honoring guys like Leonard Cohen could never, in a million years, support Donald Trump because anyone who likes Donald Trump is ipso facto immoral, hateful, stupid, or deluded. So ideological preferences become equivalent to actions: not by their fruit but by their advertising shall ye know them.

So if & when it can be confirmed that LC was waiting to hear word of Trump’s victory so he could die in peace, we’re talking massive cognitive dissonance for a whole bunch of people simply because they never took the time to look past the advertising, or to question some basic assumptions about reality, assumptions based above all (I think) in a loathing of all facts that give rise to unpleasant feelings (a liberal trait, yet ironically one that births fascism, i.e., violently intolerant forms of control).

All of which makes it worthwhile confirming this report (@tapitsbo: an inscrutable agenda to some?), even though it really doesn’t make much difference to me personally if LC was a Trump-loving closet fascist or not. I mean it wouldn’t change my opinion of him at this point, would just be one more piece of data to add to the mix. But then most of my assumptions about the validity of advertising (those shrill and hollow ideological principles that have replaced most people’s true voices) have already been pretty well demolished by the ongoing slow-motion collision with reality that my life has been since turning 40.

Facts trump feelings every time, and thank God (not Trump) for it.
It is a lot easier to fool people than show them how they have been fooled.
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby Burnt Hill » Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:46 pm

guruilla » Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:14 pm wrote:@lunarmoth & tapitsbo (hey, some posts I can actually see! :yay ):

Being prideful of insulating yourself (or pretending to) from criticism of your words
is part of the pathology I mentioned.
That became obvious in your interactions with Levenda.
Most everyone here is aware of the kind of cognitive dissonance you just mentioned,
it gets sorted out here, yes, distilled.
But you post rumours and fantasy from made up and spurious sources.
That is a big part of your modus operandi.
The pathology may simply be narcissism, or does it go further than that?
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby lunarmoth » Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:59 pm

"We come from France"
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby guruilla » Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:41 pm

While last night (November 10) we were met with the devastating news that Leonard Cohen had passed away, few details about his death were revealed. We now know, however, that Cohen in fact died on Monday (November 7).

Despite the news of his death only just being announced publicly, the Canadian legend passed away at 82 early in the week, a Sony rep confirmed to Billboard. Cohen was also reportedly already buried yesterday.

Cohen's Montreal congregation, Shaar Hashomayim, stated, "Leonard's wish was to be laid to rest in a traditional Jewish rite beside his parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents."

The full statement released by the congregation reads:

'Magnified, sanctified be Thy holy name.' These are the words of Kaddish, the Jewish prayer of memory, that were recited at Eliezer/Leonard Cohen's graveside on Thursday, November 10. Leonard's wish was to be laid to rest in a traditional Jewish rite beside his parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents. Leonard was a beloved and revered member of Shaar Hashomayim and he maintained a lifelong spiritual, musical, and familial connection to the synagogue of his youth. Our thoughts and prayers are with his family. May his memory be a blessing to all.

Of course, Cohen's death has hit many hard, and you can read some of the reactions from across the web over here. You can also listen to Cohen's final interview here, while you can learn about his storied life and history via Exclaim!'s Timeline on the artist.

http://exclaim.ca/music/article/leonard ... id_to_rest

:phew:
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby lunarmoth » Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:10 am

The source of the Cohen-Trump rumor wrote to say "It was on just after 1 pm yesterday on AM Michigan news. The Host was talking about his life and mentioned what the family had mentioned. It was not the acual member stating this."

So, Michigan AM radio November 11. And the announcer was quoting a Cohen family member.

Getting more tenuous as rumours go but I don't think it would be hard to find confirmation if one had access to a Cohen friend or relative (!)

They would all tell you Leonard had no use for "progressive" causes going back decades. He didn't have a liberal bone in his body. Everyone close to him knows this. But Cohen's career as a Pied Piper obliged him to present himself publicly as a sympathizer - his fan base was often hardcore leftist. As to why they were drawn to him and trusted him - he probably represented the ideal father they never had.
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby brekin » Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:27 pm

Burnt Hill wrote:
guruilla » Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:14 pm wrote:@lunarmoth & tapitsbo (hey, some posts I can actually see! :yay ):

Being prideful of insulating yourself (or pretending to) from criticism of your words
is part of the pathology I mentioned.
That became obvious in your interactions with Levenda.
Most everyone here is aware of the kind of cognitive dissonance you just mentioned,
it gets sorted out here, yes, distilled.
But you post rumours and fantasy from made up and spurious sources.
That is a big part of your modus operandi.
The pathology may simply be narcissism, or does it go further than that?


He uses RI as his unwitting writers group where he workshops his material for his site.
He needs people to articulate positions which he then can take the "counter-intuitive" side to illuminate the "real issue", when many times people don't even hold those opinions in the first place.

That is why much of his material here seems like long non-sequiturs. He comes with a pre-made thesis. Drops it in the town square. RI'ers come out poking and prodding it and he records what happens.

Also there seems an element of a semi-pro trying to make it on the backs of other semi-pro or pros. Knowles, Levenda, Strieber.etc, you either bless his conspiracy theory or become a part of it. It seems the worse thing a researcher can do is answer one of his emails. It explodes back in your face like Anthrax.

lunarmoth wrote:The source of the Cohen-Trump rumor wrote to say "It was on just after 1 pm yesterday on AM Michigan news. The Host was talking about his life and mentioned what the family had mentioned. It was not the acual member stating this."
So, Michigan AM radio November 11. And the announcer was quoting a Cohen family member.
Getting more tenuous as rumours go but I don't think it would be hard to find confirmation if one had access to a Cohen friend or relative (!)
They would all tell you Leonard had no use for "progressive" causes going back decades. He didn't have a liberal bone in his body. Everyone close to him knows this. But Cohen's career as a Pied Piper obliged him to present himself publicly as a sympathizer - his fan base was often hardcore leftist. As to why they were drawn to him and trusted him - he probably represented the ideal father they never had.


Uh, huh.

By the way, let me offer my condolences to you in Cohen's passing. I know he meant a lot to you.

guruilla wrote:(this is not a response to brekin since I filter brekin's posts for the same reason I don't snort cocaine or watch Nicholas Cage movies)


Because you aren't in to actual ecstatic illumination?

Image

So far I have been unable to confirm this claim, which is actually sourced in one John Harvey, who claims to have heard the AM radio show in question (he told me it was Michigan News). Mr. Harvey has also expressed semi-favorable views of Donald Trump, so until further notice the rumor that Leonard Cohen supported Donald Trump should be considered unsubstantiated.


Yup. Yawn.
If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
I hang onto my prejudices, they are the testicles of my mind. Eric Hoffer
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby lunarmoth » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:02 pm

Uh, huh.

By the way, let me offer my condolences to you in Cohen's passing. I know he meant a lot to you.



He meant a lot to to many people, and death just brings him closer.
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby tapitsbo » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:38 pm

for the record I don't get the impression guruilla is even "trying to make it"

he strikes me as a dude just following his intuition
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