lunarmoth wrote:
brekin wrote:" If someone is looking for total consensus or the space to post about events and claims without the need to articulate or even accept some modicum of the need for evidence, however, this probably isn't the place to do so. There are many forums to post about such topics where whatever you post will be accepted as fact. I'd even say this thread has even been pretty insulated from most reality tests because of principal players participation and the desire to respect their personal experience, to say nothing of the ingrained RI boosterism of conspiracy theory before any exploration of conspiracy fact."
lunarmoth wrote:
Is this your fundamental objection to this thread, brekin? That I, or we, have not posted enough evidence to support -- what exactly? Those opening excerpts from my website and self-published memoir that guruilla posted on August 24 without first asking my permission? and that I didn't even see till some time later, as I had to wait over a week to get approved to join RI, by which time guruilla and I had finished the podcast interviews. By then, the discussion here was well under way (without any input from me, of course, since I wasn't a member yet, and was only vaguely acquainted with RI which has its own special culture apparently and certain rules and protocols which I have not learned-- ) ?
By the time I was allowed to post here, as a registered user, it was October 4 and the discussion was in its fourth week and already covered 6 pages. I had just come off a 16-day live-in home care shift with a 76 year old airplane pilot with early dementia, and had exactly one day free before beginning a second two-week 24/7 gig living with a batty lady from France with advanced dementia. That means, a month of isolation and being physically and emotionally present in someone else's home. This is what I do nowadays, in both official languages. You should try it sometime. In addition, at work I often had little to no internet therefore no way to keep up with the discussion. Also during that period guruilla -- probably in an attempt to defend my credibility -- asked me for a "timeline" which I wrote on the couch while my client occasionally napped.
Bottom line, I never caught up. Guruilla was doing a great job of moderating and I decided to be non interventionist since it was my story that was being talked about and I was hungry for feedback, negative and positive. Unfortunately, even now, I have not had time to process the feedback, or make a list of the unanswered objections because in addition to taking care of old people, I also coach writers and edit their books. Which often amounts to being their therapist.
I think at some point I jumped in to defend Henry Makow and the response was so hostile. It reminded me of the time, when i was 12, I put on my figure skates and went down to the local rink and tried skating with the boys. Someone even gave me a hockey stick, but within 30 seconds I was shoved into the boards from behind, and left in the corner to pick myself off the ice and go home. I decided that was enough. No more hockey for me. I
So that's where things stand. I'll gladly answer any of your questions if you will lay them out for me in some kind of order. Additionally, I would ask brekin: Why do you doubt my story? Do you think I would make this stuff up? What makes you believe none of this happened, or that I hallucinated it, for revenge because I was 'scorned'? Does that strike you as a rational explanation for all this material?
I have a few hours to spare. Ask me anything.
How fortunate you freed up the time to correct all my misinterpretations and misunderstandings and strawman arguments. Shall we begin?
The title of the thread is Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material) and that is where my interests lie i.e. is LC an operative or involved in some larger organized elite conspiracy. From what I've gathered from reading 1/3 of your memoir and what has been posted here, you think LC was subject to MKULTRA type, or actual, experiments at McGill. But from what I can tell you are taking that from the fact he was a student at McGuill and a statement he made to you that he said he took acid once in a flotation tank and said he enjoyed it (something about it was like swimming with the dolphins? if I remember correctly? From what I've read of MKULTRA it doesn't sound enjoyable). And also from another Montreal poet who supposedly had records of numerous Montreal figures who were there as children, but there is no record of him, or you, brought forth substantiating that. We've already covered "the photo" in depth, agreeing it is a non-artifact. The snuff film episode, from a anonymous source, has numerous logical holes and is basically a good yarn. So...
Question 1. Do you have anything other than the above substantiating or outlining that LC actually underwent MKULTRA type experiments at McGuill?
Question 2. If LC did undergo such experiments, what purpose did they play later in his life? For example, was he controlled by others in management, performance, or as a spokesman? What are some examples of this? The Cuba and Israel episodes are interesting, but hardly conclusive of anything and the airport episode, you have to admit is just a anecdote that doesn't really prove anything.
Question 3. If LC's career has been manufactured, or exploited for a deeper agenda, to what end has it been used? Do you think it has been successful?
Question 4. What other celebrities or famous figures do you believe are in the same conspiratorial orbit as LC?
Question 5. What is the end game? What does Mission Accomplished look like for Field Commander Cohen?
I don't doubt LC has behaved manipulative and erratically to others in the past and has screwed around, taken drugs, been a control freak, a holier than thou false saint, a cold hearted opportunist, a sad eyed narcissistic womanizer, basically a poet-douche, born to the manor, silver spoon folk-rock icon, but what I haven't seen so far, is any evidence he's a Manchurian-type candidate. The problems with his ex-manager Lynch are problematic but reading both sides of the account I haven't been swayed. And if LC is an minor demon in service to The Grand Conspiracy wouldn't his manager of 20 years have to be complicit also?
I don't doubt you were somehow involved in LC world to some degree, but I'm just not seeing anything substantiating he's involved in anything grand conspiracy related.