TRUMP is seriously dangerous

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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby stickdog99 » Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:25 pm

Trump is what you reap when you sow hatred, ignorance, xenophobia, and jingoism.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby Novem5er » Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:02 am

Why does Donald Trump want to be president anyway?

He's already rich. His friends are already rich. He's already famous. The America as-we-know-it made him who he is; so why would he want to shake it up?

He's running on a platform of anger, but it seems phony to me. What possible reason does he have to be angry at the state of things?

The only thing I can think of is that his primary motivation is one of ego and influence. Despite being a billionaire, maybe he feels impotent. Perhaps he revels at the idea of reshaping the lives of millions of people with but a stroke of a pen and an executive order. Does he want power for the simple pleasure of wielding it?

If so, it's frightening.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby SonicG » Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:03 am

I think he is the ultimate outcome of the reality TV and lottery cultures...Been said a million times but Americans are overworked and under-educated so slipping into the Trump fantasy of a billionaire president waving his magic wand to return the US to some imagined Eisenhower 50s (when the highest tax bracket was, what, 90%?) conflates with every lottery ticket buyers fantasy of never having to work ever again (= Samadhi in Idiocracy)...Just some nice smoke and mirrors for the next step in the coalescence of worldwide capitalism. He can bluster about jobs and free trade and China but the Technocrats have not a worry since there will not be any scaling back on the free trade agreements, no massive import duties levied against anyone because the impoverished international working class is the grease for Trumps billions. And that former and fast-fading white middle-class that makes up the Trump supporters will ultimately be even more disillusioned when another Technocratic manager gets into the White House to continue turning the crank that squeezes that middle class. Some will certainly fall into the white racist movement or re-pledge their support to the Tea Party while Trump will go back to shining his brand.....

This is quite hilarious
Trump declares, “I will rebuild our military. It will be so powerful that we won’t even have to use it. Nobody is going to mess with us.”

That poor decrepit US military...Would love to see him run as an independent just to drink repug tears...
"a poiminint tidal wave in a notion of dynamite"
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby Sounder » Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:15 am

Nordic wrote....
The professional Repubs hate him, too. Fox "News" tried to take him down immediately in the first debate.


If that were true then why do Fox and others not make hay about his recent and past bankruptcy filing?

Nordic wrote....
Remember: They're all in this together, don't forget. One club, the professional wrestling association, and they have fake fights for the duped public.


The Donald makes deals, so the question is; who is he making a deal with right now?
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby Searcher08 » Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:36 am

https://hbr.org/2015/08/why-people-are-drawn-to-narcissists-like-donald-trump

Why People Are Drawn to Narcissists Like Donald Trump

Michael Maccoby

August 26, 2015



Donald Trump is an official phenomenon. The real estate tycoon and TV celebrity’s ongoing success as a presidential candidate shows that he has clearly struck a chord with many voters. It has also confounded many citizens and pundits who predicted that Trump’s arrogant putdowns and grandiose claims would doom him to quick rejection by Republican voters. How is it that after outbursts that would not be tolerated in a schoolroom, Trump’s relationship with his followers just grows stronger? What do his followers like about Trump?

The answer may have as much to do with Trump’s achievements as his proposed policies. Unlike his rivals, he has made a fortune by his own efforts; he can convincingly claim he is his own man while his rivals are puppets, indebted to the big money donors his followers distrust.

But his appeal may have even more to do with his personality. No one pushes Trump around, and no insult goes unanswered. He fights back. He is not cautious or fearful of offending a critic or any of America’s adversaries. In this, Trump has a personality type that’s common to the charismatic leaders who emerge in times of turmoil and uncertainty, when people are ready to follow a strong leader who promises to lead them to greatness. Sigmund Freud called people with this personality type “normal narcissists” and he described them as independent and not vulnerable to intimidation, also noting that they have a large amount of aggressive energy and a bias for action. Freud included himself in this group and saw these narcissists as driven to lead and to change the world. Such narcissists can be very charming, and indeed, research has shown most of us like to follow narcissists.

I have done much additional study of leaders such as these, whom I call productive narcissists. The results of this research were first published in my Harvard Business Review article of 2000, “Narcissistic Leaders: The Incredible Pros, the Inevitable Cons” (which was later expanded into a book). I wrote that productive narcissists like Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, and Larry Ellison were exploiting new technologies to create great companies, just as Andrew Carnegie, John D. Rockefeller, and Henry Ford did over a century ago. However, I also illustrated that people with this personality type, however brilliant, have potential weaknesses that can do them in.

They can become so tied to their visions that they lose touch with reality. They can become so self-important and thin-skinned that they lash out at subordinates who question them. They can act as though the rules don’t apply to them. They can end up isolated in their own worlds.

The productive narcissists who sustain success recognize their vulnerabilities and compensate for them. A few years ago, I was invited to a meeting of Italian business, government, media, and academic leaders to discuss narcissistic leaders – a topic of keen interest at that time when Silvio Berlusconi, a grandiose narcissist, was prime minister. The president of the Italian senate said that I was correct that visionary leaders were productive narcissists. But to sustain their success, he said, they should learn how to pretend to be humble.

Many leaders through history have understood this. Benjamin Franklin wrote in his autobiography that people didn’t listen to him because they thought him arrogant. But when he proposed his ideas humbly, he was much more effective. Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln were both extremely skillful in presenting themselves as humble. But even more important for a productive narcissist’s sustained success is partnering with people who keep them grounded. Steve Jobs was fired from Apple when he tried to run the company by himself and alienated his subordinates. On his return, by partnering with Tim Cook in operations and Jony Ive in design, he was able to lead Apple to greatness. Both Jefferson with James Madison, and Lincoln with William H. Seward, had trusted subordinates who complemented their strengths.

I’ve seen CEOs who were productive narcissists who have become so inflated with their success and the adulation of followers that they rejected the sidekicks who held them back from rash action. The same is true of national leaders. When Napoleon fired his adviser, Talleyrand, there was no one to dissuade him from his disastrous invasion of Russia.

Narcissistic leaders who have come to me for counseling wanted help in understanding their subordinates and partners. They wanted to control their tendency to lash out at criticism. They wanted to overcome their vulnerability to sycophants and flatterers and to appreciate partners who tell them hard truths. One narcissistic CEO, who often frightened his subordinates with his angry putdowns, came to me for help in understanding himself and his associates. When he told his executive team about our work together, even the coaching skeptics urged him to continue. A little self-understanding made a big difference in his relationships.

Followers must also take a step back to attain perspective. People who have become entranced by charismatic narcissists – whether in the political or business realm – often fail to sufficiently evaluate the leaders’ policies and their ability to execute them. Are the policies realistic? How will they be implemented? What results will they produce in the long run? Do the leaders in question have trusted advisers to keep them from taking rash actions?

Narcissistic leaders can create companies like Apple or those like Enron. Like Lincoln and Nelson Mandela they can change the world for the better, or like Napoleon and Hitler they can lead their followers to disaster. In the final accounting, a large part of the credit for their successes, or blame for their failures, belongs to the people who followed them.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby Belligerent Savant » Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:22 pm

.
Clearly, a segment of our collective cultural psyche needs to experience this, right now.

Can't fight it. It needs to play itself out. There are humans out there that need/want this, and attempting to suppress and/or curtail it with pranks is an exercise in futility.

THIS IS OUR AMERICA, folks. It's been leading up to this for some time, and it sure as hell ain't goin' away anytime soon. Indeed, it may get far worse than a mere TRUMP distraction before it ever gets to a place amenable to our apparently exclusive dispositions (and it's quite optimistic to assume it ever will).
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:38 pm

Local press did a piece on Bernie's short fuse (a valid criticism and a known fact) and a comment there caught my attention, because the symmetry to this conversation -- particularly the Maccoby piece posted above...

Of course he's an a-hole. He's rude. He's grumpy. He's narcissistic. He's idealistic to fault. But he gets things done. Just like any other megalomaniac. And the people who work for him complain about him... and so many stick around for years. It's too bad he shunned Nader in 2000 & 2004; he's so much like him in so many ways, politically and otherwise.


Several generations (and a dozen-odd ethnic or identity groups) at once seem to be frustrated by a common realization that our democracy does not select for leadership. And without it, shit tends to fall apart. Shit is falling apart now.

Still, history teaches humans mostly overcompensate, so it'll be El Duce II, not a caste of enlightened technocrats. Like a Mitt Romney administration would have been.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby Belligerent Savant » Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:15 pm

.
Wombaticus Rex » Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:38 am wrote:history teaches humans mostly overcompensate, so it'll be El Duce II, not a caste of enlightened technocrats.


Indeed.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby norton ash » Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:47 pm

America deserves its own Berlusconi. Buon giorno, bunga bunga!
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby Nordic » Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:16 pm

Sounder » Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:15 am wrote:Nordic wrote....
The professional Repubs hate him, too. Fox "News" tried to take him down immediately in the first debate.


If that were true then why do Fox and others not make hay about his recent and past bankruptcy filing?

Nordic wrote....
Remember: They're all in this together, don't forget. One club, the professional wrestling association, and they have fake fights for the duped public.


The Donald makes deals, so the question is; who is he making a deal with right now?


I think that he's a useful idiot in the short term. At some point they'll take him down.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby Sounder » Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:03 pm

Nordic wrote....

The professional Repubs hate him, too. Fox "News" tried to take him down immediately in the first debate.


Sounder wrote...
If that were true then why do Fox and others not make hay about his recent and past bankruptcy filing?


Nordic wrote....

Remember: They're all in this together, don't forget. One club, the professional wrestling association, and they have fake fights for the duped public.




The Donald makes deals, so the question is; who is he making a deal with right now?



Nordic wrote...
I think that he's a useful idiot in the short term. At some point they'll take him down.


Perhaps I am a bit more cynical. Politicians can be regarded as puppets and placeholders. If true, then the money people that 'make' them don't really care about them if they find an alternative that will better serve their actual purposes. Trump has a well connected entourage and I doubt that he is playing a useful idiot role.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby whipstitch » Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:34 pm

I'm seeing Trump as a Clinton operative much like the role Ross Perot played in '92. He'll run as a third party, do something stupid to assure he won't win and then siphon the racist xenophobes from the Republican candidate, clearing the way for Hiliary to win. Hey, it worked for Bill...
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby Twyla LaSarc » Fri Aug 28, 2015 1:41 am

whipstitch » Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:34 pm wrote:I'm seeing Trump as a Clinton operative much like the role Ross Perot played in '92. He'll run as a third party, do something stupid to assure he won't win and then siphon the racist xenophobes from the Republican candidate, clearing the way for Hiliary to win. Hey, it worked for Bill...


I can see this. It has been mentioned that the Clintons and Trump are 'friends' such as passes for such in their circles.

I think Trump is a troll. And what a troll he is. I gotta give him kudos just for the posturing, from the tip of his feral hairpiece to the toe of his Italian shoes, he is an american troll of the finest water and of great lineage. I think he would be perfectly at home in the gilded age, perhaps even unremarkable.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby Elvis » Fri Aug 28, 2015 2:11 am

The 199 Most Donald Trump Things Donald Trump Has Ever Said

Would you vote for this man?

By MICHAEL KRUSE
August 14, 2015

1. “… don’t let the brevity of these passages prevent you from savoring the profundity of the advice you are about to receive.” (How to Get Rich, 2004)...

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/ ... 21328.html



A wealth of conversation starters/stoppers.
“The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.” ― Joan Robinson
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby Searcher08 » Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:49 am

One aspect of Trump I was surprised about is how pro-Bibi he is.

His daughter Ivanka, who has a very active role in Donald's business, has converted to Orthodox Judaism. She married to the son of another New York real estate magnate.

She has an "interesting" father-in-law.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/05/nyregion/democratic-donor-receives-twoyear-prison-sentence.html
Democratic Donor Receives Two-Year Prison Sentence

By RONALD SMOTHERSMARCH 5, 2005


NEWARK, March 4 - Charles Kushner, a multimillionaire real estate executive, philanthropist and one of the top Democratic donors in the country, was sentenced on Friday to two years in federal prison after pleading guilty to 18 counts of tax evasion, witness tampering and making illegal campaign donations.

Mr. Kushner, 50, built a construction business begun by his father into a private real estate empire that owned more than 25,000 apartments, millions of square feet of commercial and industrial space and thousands of acres of developable land.

But Mr. Kushner also became embroiled in a bitter family feud over the business and how proceeds were distributed. That dispute, plus his growing prominence as a political financier, helped lead to his downfall. The intrafamily acrimony was such that Mr. Kushner retaliated against his brother-in-law, who was cooperating with federal authorities, by hiring a prostitute to seduce him. He then arranged to have a secretly recorded videotape of the encounter sent to his sister, the man's wife.

The two-year sentence was the most Mr. Kushner could have received under a plea agreement, reached last September with the United States attorney, Christopher J. Christie, that called for 18 to 24 months in prison. But it was less than the sentence of nearly three years that Mr. Christie had sought in recent weeks after concluding that Mr. Kushner had failed to show "acceptance of responsibility" for his crimes as required by the plea deal.

Details of that heated fight between prosecutors and Mr. Kushner's lawyers were unveiled in more than two and a half hours of argument on Friday before Judge Jose L. Linares in Federal District Court.

In the end, the judge rejected the prosecution's argument but said he was nevertheless left with the difficult task of weighing the "horrific" nature of Mr. Kushner's acts against his sister and brother-in-law versus his many philanthropic acts in determining whether leniency was warranted.

"It is difficult for me to reconcile the generous man with the revengeful, hateful man," Judge Linares said. "But I must take into consideration the vengeful nature in which this was done. In light of all the relevant circumstances, I find that you be imprisoned for 24 months."

Mr. Kushner, dressed in a navy blue suit, white shirt and polka-dot tie, told the judge that while he did not believe he was as saintly as his lawyers and the letters sent to the judge on his behalf would suggest, neither was he as evil as the prosecution portrayed him. He nonetheless acknowledged that "the actions which bring me before you today were disgraceful and reprehensible."

Mr. Kushner, who will continue to be free on $5 million bail, was ordered to surrender on May 9 to begin serving his sentence at a federal prison at a military base in Montgomery, Ala. He was also ordered to pay a $40,000 fine.

After the sentencing, Mr. Christie said he was pleased. "It shows that no matter how rich and powerful you are in this state you will be prosecuted and punished for crimes you commit," he said. "This sends a strong message that when you commit the vile and heinous acts that he has committed you will be caught and punished."

Benjamin Brafman, Mr. Kushner's lead lawyer, said that while he was pleased that Judge Linares did not throw out the original plea deal's sentencing recommendations, he was "angry and disappointed" that the judge chose not to sentence his client to 18 months in prison.

"It disappoints me because I thought that after years of being one of the kindest and giving persons, it would matter in this state," Mr. Brafman said. "It does matter in other states, but apparently it doesn't mean anything in this state."

Mr. Kushner's lawyers provided Judge Linares with about 700 letters praising Mr. Kushner's charity and philanthropy, among them letters from people who had benefited from Mr. Kushner's acts, including schoolchildren and the sick.

While Mr. Christie said that his investigation into Mr. Kushner's campaign contributions was continuing, the sentencing on Friday capped a rapid-fire series of events last summer in which Mr. Kushner, a major contributor to Gov. James E. McGreevey, was arrested, followed a week later by Mr. McGreevey's resignation after admitting to an adulterous homosexual affair.

The arrest of a businessman who was so close to Mr. McGreevey had fueled speculation that the governor, already besieged by federal investigations of his campaigns, aides and other associates, was himself on the brink of political destruction at best and federal charges at worst.

Mr. Kushner had put the man with whom Mr. McGreevey's aides said the governor had the affair, Golan Cipel, an Israeli citizen, on his payroll for a time. He also helped Mr. Cipel to get the United States work permits that allowed Mr. McGreevey to appoint him to a top counterterrorism post that he was later forced to quit.

Mr. McGreevey appointed Mr. Kushner to the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey and nominated him to become its chairman, but Mr. Kushner quit after complaints were raised that his contributions to New Jersey Democrats may have violated campaign-finance and conflict-of-interest laws.

In seeking the longer prison term, an assistant United States attorney, Scott Resnick, told Judge Linares that Mr. Kushner had failed to comply with subpoenas for business documents and had not presented sufficient proof that all the videotapes made of his brother-in-law and the prostitute had been turned over or destroyed.

Rather than seeing these things as Mr. Kushner's "failure to accept responsibility," Judge Linares faulted the prosecution for not securing stronger guarantees for compliance, and he accepted Mr. Kushner's assurance in court and in affidavits that the videotapes had been destroyed.


Kushner was intimately connected with New Jersey politics. This eye-popping article below reads like a story line from The Wire.

Jim McGreevey and His Main Man
Golan Cipel was only a plaything. It was developer Charles Kushner who speeded his passage through the swamps of New Jersey patronage politics—till Kushner was brought down in his own spectacular sex scandal.

much more here:
http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/features/9874/
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