TRUMP is seriously dangerous

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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby stefano » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:37 am

Nordic » Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:41 pm wrote:It's such conditioning. Trump is meaningless. He has no power. Elections are for entertainment purposes only.

I don't know... Taibbi's point, at the end, is that even if Trump doesn't win, he will, over the course of however long his run lasts and after that, unlock some real ugliness. I think he's right about that. Trump has power as an example, and the more people say 'yeah, he's right', the greater the power grows.

Nordic » Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:41 pm wrote:The real enemies, the truly dangerous, are already in power. They're not giving it up. Trump is not one of them nor will he be allowed to be one of them.

There are factions in the American ruling class, hey. I'm almost sure Clinton has the thing locked up, but there still are serious, instinctively right-wing players who have lots of reasons to hate the Clintons and who might back Trump as a long bet (Adelson, Koch, some Houston money, some of the Waltons). Strategically the play will be to use him to turn out whites who couldn't be bothered to vote McCain or Romney. And, if they get it close enough, they can try swinging it by fixing the number of votes that can be stolen (which is significant but not unlimited). If he is elected, then more overt State racism can be used, as it always has been, to keep the white poor on side and accepting of shitty wages. You might be working two jobs just to make ends meet, but at least you're not a nigger. If police racism gets worse than in the past year then you'll be looking at real, constant social tension. Even the elites backing Clinton will see an advantage in that. In fact I think that dynamic has now achieved its own momentum, and it will tend to help Trump.

Trump won't become one of them, but he doesn't want to - he just wants to be president, give speeches and have crowds cheering at him. What egomaniac wouldn't love hearing himself being called 'the most powerful man in the world,' even if he knows he isn't?
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby 82_28 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:52 am

Nordic » Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:45 am wrote:And did I read that correctly or did Matt Taibbi actually call Megyn Kelly a "journalist?"

Holy fuck.

Talk about stupiding down America. Matt, WTF.


He did qualify that though:

On the surface, Kelly was just doing her job as a journalist, throwing Trump's most outrageous comments back at him and demanding an explanation.

But on another level, she was trying to bring Trump to heel. The extraction of the humiliating public apology is one of the media's most powerful weapons. Someone becomes famous, we dig up dirt on the person, we rub it in his or her nose, and then we demand that the person get down on bended knee and beg forgiveness.


I didn't find anything he wrote lame at all. He was just pontificating and was sharing his take on what we all feel in our revulsion of trump. I could give a fuck less if he becomes president. What I give the most fucks about is that he is causing fear to be felt in good people -- Los Mexicanos. He is creating anxiety for them and that is pure cruelty. He is mainlining that shit to the point where it can be now acceptable to be brought up. I think this country has the numbers numbers to say fuck this guy. Because over my dead body will I ever sit by and watch anybody, any entity get singled out for any motherfucking reason to be forcibly removed from where they live and indeed have contributed to this fabled american greatness.

Fuck that guy.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:18 pm

Nordic » Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:41 am wrote:It's such conditioning. Trump is meaningless. He has no power. Elections are for entertainment purposes only.

All this energy wasted hand-wringing about Trump. The real enemies, the truly dangerous, are already in power. They're not giving it up.


That may be true as far as empire is concerned; the Deep State. But where domestic issues are concerned, of course there is executive power to propose law and policy. Yes, Trump is still a long-shot for obtaining this power. I don't know if you have any Mexican relatives, but I do, so I find this possibility deeply disturbing. Even if he doesn't win, I think his entire campaign is extremely dangerous in how it is stoking the fires of racism and xenophobia in this country. This story does a great job explaining that sociological phenomenon:

The Fearful and the Frustrated
"Huey Long once said, “Fascism will come to America in the name of anti-fascism.” I'm afraid, based on my own experience, that fascism will come to America in the name of national security."
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby coffin_dodger » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:48 pm

SRP said:
I think his entire campaign is extremely dangerous in how it is stoking the fires of racism and xenophobia in this country


Well, Trump can only be stoking what is already there, right?

Staggering hypocrisy, coming from a nation built entirely by immigrants on the carcasses of the indiginous.

Hell, Trump might actually speed up the process of National self-reflection, forcing the USA to face what it is.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby Nordic » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:19 pm


Hell, Trump might actually speed up the process of National self-reflection, forcing the USA to face what it is.



Yes exactly. It's funny because my son who is 12 clearly sees this. If Trump were handed any real power we would actually react and face this ugly mess of a nations soul.

Or we can keep pretending everything is OK.

Same with John Ellis Bush (I refuse to call him JEB). If they were to give it to him we might have to actually face the corruption and power of the Deep Staye and the Bush family.

My son thinks that the best thing, long term (and he's in it for a longer term than any of us) would be for Trump or Bush to "win". Because that would actually piss people off! And force change!

Otherwise they'll just keep serving up more Obamas. And Obama is "the more effective Republican" as Phil Rockstroh keeps saying.

And for the record I have Mexican family members. They live in Texas. They won't take shit from anybody.

It's better we face this ugly shit head on. You don't clean out your house by ignoring the termites.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby kool maudit » Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:15 am

Donald Trump is essentially a nationalist, and by extension an anti-globalist.

He is a right-nationalist and not a left-nationalist, but I have come to suspect the national/global thing is larger than right/left, at least in the eyes of the powers that be.

Like so many of you, I also think he is a political figure of little substance; he's a slogan-man and as Twyla noted, a Gilded Age-style tubthumper. But it's interesting. He's not the fascist of RI nightmares, he's an ego-construction that has marshalled fear-responses in such a way that they are pulling away from the consensus favoured by UN/OSCE/EULEX/IMF/World Bank/EU/USAID types.

And these types can be liberal as hell, in their way. I know these people. They are weeping over the European refugee situation now, almost to a person among the people I know. But they are servants of the transnational order, spooks, and they create these situations that then cause them so much distress once their human consequences come to light.

Trump is an inchoate, blustering, occluded, half-monstrous stride away from their path.

It is interesting, this thing that is happening with him.

But then, were I American I'd stump for Old Nick himself if it meant escaping Bush v. Clinton in 2016.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby kelley » Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:04 am


I have come to suspect the national/global thing is larger than right/left . . .

Trump is an inchoate, blustering, occluded, half-monstrous stride away from their path.




Yes.

And it's the populist blustering that has the old-boy GOP hardliners aghast and enraged.

Trump is a tool.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby Searcher08 » Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:19 am

Trump is concerned, more than anything else, with Trump
Trump makes deals
Trump is deeply connected to a New York/New Jersey hardball network of corrupt 'Democrat' / Likudnik Jewish property developers.
Trump is an actual friend of Bibi.
Trump has a resort in Florida that is (allegedly<coughs>) the base for Ghislaine Maxwell's child trafficking for Jeffrey Epstein.
Trump communicates and is comfortable communicating contradictions, these contradictions match those of his audience.
A person who is a very skilled business negotiator develops an extremely acute, 'real time', intuitive sense of the weak spots of the opponent describing Bush as 'low energy'. I feel if he ever got as far as a TV debate with Clinton, he would mop the floor up with her.

Trump is much more of a narcissist than Ross Perot was - and I think that if (like Perot) things progress to the point that he gets the phone call that threatens his family members, Trump would not yield but broadcast it high and low.

I think fundamentally he is (small 'c') conservative - he wants to make the existing order 'work more successfully' and that squares off against the Kochs who want to dismantle large elements of the existing system, not from effectiveness p-o-v, but ideology.


Trump seems to have a Halo Effect that can turn those around him into versions of himself - so Ivana Trump turned from being an inspiration for Patsy from Absolutely Fabulous

into getting into Leona Helmsley territory


The biggest problem with a Trump regime would probably not be Trump, but the people in the administration... particularly if there was the equivalent of a 'Steve Ballmer' character to Trump's hard-chargin 'Bill Gates'. Someone determined to "out Trump the Donald".
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby Searcher08 » Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:22 am

:rofl2 - couple of "R.I." moments...

Donald's ex Marla Maples is now... recording New Age Ambient Hip-Hop with Deepak Chopra.


this followed after her former publicist took her shoes and had sex with them.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2166605/Police-tapes-reveal-Donald-Trump-regretted-dumping-Ivana-Marla-Maples-didnt-want-pregnant.html
Maples and her publicist apparently had a falling out over her illicit relationship with the billionaire, and in a bizarre twist, he broke into her house and stole her shoes.

Some 70 of her high heels, cowboy boots, slippers and high-top Converse sneakers turned up soiled and stashed under a radiator cover in Jones' office, according to the New York Post.

During his trial, Jones readily admitted that he enjoyed a ‘sexual relationship’ with the footwear.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby Luther Blissett » Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:31 am

How was Trump removed from previous presidential races, and by whom?
The Rich and the Corporate remain in their hundred-year fever visions of Bolsheviks taking their stuff - JackRiddler
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:03 pm

coffin_dodger » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:48 pm wrote:Hell, Trump might actually speed up the process of National self-reflection, forcing the USA to face what it is.


I'm pretty sure the SDS and the Yippies had the same idea in mind in 1968 when they nominated a pig for president and marched on Chicago. After thinking Nixon was the worst, then Reagan was the worst, then Bush was the worst, I think America's capacity for self-reflection is confined by its pathological need to deny what's really in the mirror. This last paragraph from a piece slad posted on another thread tells how that works out:

If we’re this crazy now, try to imagine what breeds of goblins and demons a migration crisis on that scale might conjure up in America, especially given the decrepit condition of our democracy and our, shall we say, inconsistent recent record on human rights. Or on second thought, don’t. Donald Trump is like the aging Borscht Belt comedian who opens the show, warming up the crowd and getting us in the mood – in this case, the mood for fascism. He’s not the headline attraction, who knows better than to show his face before we’re good and ready.


To use a Biblical analogy, Donald Trump is not the anti-Christ. But he may be John the Baptist.

And no, I don't believe in End Times prophecies. But I do believe in Hell on Earth.

Nordic » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:19 pm wrote:
And for the record I have Mexican family members. They live in Texas. They won't take shit from anybody.


Damn, they must have cajones the size of Gibraltar. I've been to Texas once, no offense to anyone from there who loves it, but I won't be going back. My best to you and them!
"Huey Long once said, “Fascism will come to America in the name of anti-fascism.” I'm afraid, based on my own experience, that fascism will come to America in the name of national security."
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby Nordic » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:10 pm

stillrobertpaulsen » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:03 pm wrote:
coffin_dodger » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:48 pm wrote:Hell, Trump might actually speed up the process of National self-reflection, forcing the USA to face what it is.


I'm pretty sure the SDS and the Yippies had the same idea in mind in 1968 when they nominated a pig for president and marched on Chicago. After thinking Nixon was the worst, then Reagan was the worst, then Bush was the worst, I think America's capacity for self-reflection is confined by its pathological need to deny what's really in the mirror. This last paragraph from a piece slad posted on another thread tells how that works out:

If we’re this crazy now, try to imagine what breeds of goblins and demons a migration crisis on that scale might conjure up in America, especially given the decrepit condition of our democracy and our, shall we say, inconsistent recent record on human rights. Or on second thought, don’t. Donald Trump is like the aging Borscht Belt comedian who opens the show, warming up the crowd and getting us in the mood – in this case, the mood for fascism. He’s not the headline attraction, who knows better than to show his face before we’re good and ready.


To use a Biblical analogy, Donald Trump is not the anti-Christ. But he may be John the Baptist.

And no, I don't believe in End Times prophecies. But I do believe in Hell on Earth.

Nordic » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:19 pm wrote:
And for the record I have Mexican family members. They live in Texas. They won't take shit from anybody.


Damn, they must have cajones the size of Gibraltar. I've been to Texas once, no offense to anyone from there who loves it, but I won't be going back. My best to you and them!



Well, it's Austin. A kinder and gentler Texas.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby SonicG » Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:17 am

I'll just put this here sense it is ostensibly about the Trump but with the 911 anniversary coming up and SA being scrutinized a bit in regards to the whole refugees debacle, I think it is important to understand the relationship between Trump and Saudi Arabia, or at least whatever can be gleaned from his ranting...Facile observation but Trump and Bin Laden were/are involved in the same industry...
“They should pay us,” Trump said of the oil rich nation. “Like it or don’t like it, people have backed Saudi Arabia. What I really mind, though, is we back it at tremendous expense. We get nothing for it.”

"The primary reason we're with Saudi Arabia is because we need the oil," Trump said. "Now we don't need the oil so much, and if we let our people really go, we wouldn't need the oil at all and we could let everybody else fight it out."

Despite his critique of the current working relationship, Trump stopped short of calling for the U.S. government to simply walk away from the Saudis, who he said would soon find themselves as a "major target" of Islamic State terrorists.
"Saudi Arabia is going to be in big trouble pretty soon and they're going to need help, because if you look at Yemen and you look at that border, you don't have to be an expert to know that is one long border, and they're not going in for Yemen, they're going in for the oil, they're going in for Saudi Arabia, so Saudi Arabia is going to need help," Trump said.

Throughout the interview, Trump asserted that American leaders had, for years, routinely cut bad deals with foreign governments across the globe. In the case of Saudi Arabia, that has helped the Arab nation "make a billion dollars a day," said Trump.
..........
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/artic ... f-the-u-s-


And, "Now we don't need the oil so much, and if we let our people really go, we wouldn't need the oil at all..."?? I'm assuming that his energy plan is to completely open up the US to any type of energy extraction? Oh, and any likelihood of the Trump scenario of IS pressing into SA through Yemen? Seems like that would be sooner than later and very interesting to see a lame duck Obama deal with a crisis of that stature...
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby Belligerent Savant » Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:34 pm

.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/06/magaz ... .html?_r=0

THE POLITICS OF DISTRACTION

Image

We begin, as many discussions about politics today should, with an analogy to pro wrestling. Consider the ‘‘foreign object’’ routine: One combatant produces a concealed item, usually from under his tights — a pointed stick or some hand-size tool of menace — and proceeds to jab his opponent with it. He perpetrates this atrocity in full view of everybody except the referee, who remains oblivious because a complicit third party (perhaps a tag-team partner or a manager) is distracting him.

Now consider our current Republican primary battle royale. Foreign objects might not exist literally in modern campaigns. But there are figurative devices, known as ‘‘shiny objects,’’ that rely on the same principles of distraction, outrage and misdirection. They also involve a hapless dupe in the middle of it all — in this case, us.

There is pandemonium in the squared circle of public life. Pretty much every day someone (a candidate, or a campaign, or the media) will ‘‘hold up some bright, shiny object,’’ as Carly Fiorina put it on ‘‘Meet the Press.’’ That increasingly popular metaphor is an apt one, because the various images it conjures — an intergalactic body glowing brighter as it moves closer to dumbfounded earthlings, a ball on a string held by a hypnotist, a mobile hung above a baby’s crib — all, to varying degrees, seize attention, whether through their novelty or through manipulation. In politics, a shiny object is the preoccupation of the moment: the 14th Amendment, or so-­called birthright citizenship and anchor babies, or, inevitably, any poll.

In these dazzle-­me-­now days, there can be grave consequences for a candidate who comes off as gray and plodding and bogged down in nuance — let alone in shame or embarrassment. Writing in Esquire, Charles P. Pierce said he had expected that Scott Walker would be doing better with the Republican electorate at this point. ‘‘What I did not anticipate,’’ Pierce wrote, was “the rise of the shiny object that is The Man Called Trump.’’ Pierce added that he also did not expect that Walker himself ‘‘would turn out to be such an unimpressive lump of cheese.’’

Donald Trump ‘‘is the brightest and shiniest of all the bright, shiny objects,’’ said David Axelrod, a longtime Obama political adviser. Trump is like a one-man meteor shower of this genre. He sprays exhilarating antagonism upon all manner of Megyn Kellys, Mexicans or whoever his ‘‘loser’’ target of the day might be. He tweets around the clock, rides around in a shimmering helicopter and has that noggin of shimmering hair. He hurls us into the ropes until we find ourselves disoriented, careening against a turnbuckle: Where are we? How did we get here?

The shiny-­object metaphor is not confined to the realm of politics. Business strategy, technology and marketing consultants have all referred to ‘‘bright, shiny objects’’ (or ‘‘B.S.O.s’’) to describe the fickle tastes of modern life. Urban Dictionary identifies ‘‘S.O.S.’’ (‘‘shiny-­object syndrome’’) as ‘‘a condition which causes an inability to focus on any particular person while online dating.’’ (By the same token, a number of commentators have dismissed Trump’s recent success in the polls as ‘‘just a summer fling.’’) Its origin may actually lie with an older sort of stump performer. ‘‘Magicians use sleight of hand, dangling a shiny object in front of their audiences to distract them from the hidden deception going on elsewhere,’’ said Christopher Cerf, a co-­author of ‘‘Spin-glish: The Definitive Dictionary of Deliberately Deceptive Language.’’

To some degree, politics has always involved deception. The advent of television intensified this, shrinking attention spans, creating ways to distort and vilify and dramatizing the existential stakes of prosaic debates. Think Lyndon Johnson’s devastating ‘‘Daisy’’ ad in his 1964 re-­election campaign against Barry Goldwater, which showed a little girl picking petals off a daisy and the sudden explosion of a bright, shiny mushroom cloud.

In 1962, the historian Daniel Boorstin published ‘‘The Image: Or What Happened to the American Dream,’’ in which he identified the dawning of the ‘‘age of contrivance,’’ marked by ‘‘pseudo-­events’’: staged happenings that animate a cultural calendar (Hallmark holidays, anniversaries), as well as political set pieces (photo ops, candidate ‘‘announcement’’ ­speeches). Political pseudo-­events have been the engine of television advertising, which focuses on smaller-­bore matters, or ‘‘wedge issues,’’ that would have little relevance to an actual presidency but nonetheless shine a nasty glare on a candidate. George Bush attacked his Democratic presidential opponent, Michael Dukakis, by asserting that Dukakis’s support of a prison-­furlough program in Massachusetts represented a permissive liberalism that he would take to the White House. (The shiny object here was Willie Horton, the escaped convict featured in an infamous campaign ad.) If television was a major development in the creation of shiny objects, the Internet was an Ursa Major development. Even the most isolated outrages become outsize on our little, attention-burning screens.

During the 2008 presidential campaign, Obama and his campaign team warned against becoming too drawn to the ‘‘shiny objects’’ that preoccupied the press. ‘‘It was basically a not-­subtle way of saying that political reporters had attention-­deficit disorder,’’ said Dan Pfeiffer, a former top adviser to Obama. In our defense, though, the A.D.D. of political reporters is fostered by a warped and warping system. Media bosses demand a constant flow of material, which ensures that much reporting remains undigested. Customers want speed or will click elsewhere; competitors spew their own undigested news, and campaigns are only too happy to concoct it, or their opponents will. Shiny objects become tools of our least resistance. Polls and gaffes take less time and brainpower to comprehend than, say, Jeb Bush’s book on immigration policy.

In other words, the press colludes with politicians in this culture of distraction-­mongering. Meanwhile, a new class of political figures has built careers almost entirely on shiny-object status. It’s more fun than writing policy treatises and much easier than actual governing — and it pays better too.

Sarah Palin belongs on the Mount Rushmore of human shiny objects. She secured her place after John McCain made her his surprise running mate in 2008. In an appearance on CNN back then, the pundit Paul Begala lamented that Democrats seemed ‘‘to just not be able to resist’’ focusing on ‘‘the shiny object of Sarah Palin, who is not running against Barack Obama.’’ Less than a year after the campaign ended, Palin had quit her governor’s job and moved on to a lucrative career as a full-time media troll, pundit, author and rally headliner who has been paid eight figures since 2009. Like Trump, she became a reality-­TV star (on a short-­lived TLC series), which is always good for business in Shiny Object Land.

So is running for president. It’s good to convey a sense of being in play even if you clearly are not. Back in the innocent days of 2010, 2011 and 2012, reporters were always falling over one another to ask Trump whether he would run. NBC’s First Read memo summarized a Trump appearance on ‘‘Face the Nation’’ under the heading of ‘‘Your Sunday-­Show Shiny-­Object Alert: Donald Trump to CBS’s Bob Schieffer on whether or not he will eventually jump into the 2012 contest: ‘I hope I don’t have to. But I may — absolutely.’ ’’ No one really took it seriously.

But sometimes reality TV turns into reality. ‘‘The focus on the shiny object becomes a self-­fulfilling prophecy,’’ Pfeiffer said. ‘‘It turns the shiny object into the actual object.’’ And the Summer of Trump shines on.

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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby Elvis » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:52 pm

Maybe John McAfee could replace Trump as the shinier object -- he's way more entertaining than Trump.
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